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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:02 am 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
John Carpenter. From practically creating the slasher genre with Halloween to crafting the claustrophobic body horror brilliance of The Thing to his last hurrah by way of Lovecraftian eldritch horror with In the Mouth of Madness, can you think of a horror director whose body of work in that 15-year time frame is as celebrate or important? Then Escape From LA. Then Ghosts of Mars. Then The Ward. Now he's retired to focus on his music.


Yeah I can see that in a way, but I never lump him in with directors who went downhill because his career pretty much just ended - The Ward was pretty lame, but it's not like he's been making movies through the last 20 years that have all sucked. I think he paid his dues, so to speak, with his early work enough that I wouldn't criticize him as having gone downhill later. Though I haven't seen some of the late 80s flicks like Ghosts of Mars. But In the Mouth of Madness was fun enough that I think he redeemed himself from anything he did that was weak in the 80s.

I haven't seen a lot of Rodriguez movies actually. I've had friends tell me his early work was good, I should get on that.
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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:33 pm 
 

Carpenter went downhill after Madness with the three I listed (all in the '90s/early '00s, BTW), but he does tend to get a pass because of how incredible his earlier works are. So do Coppola, Scorsese, Polanski, etc.

You should definitely check out Rodriguez's work up to Spy Kids 2.
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rexxz
Where's your band?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:34 pm 
 

rexxz wrote:
Just watched Angst (1983). Super fucking crazy movie. Really good if you're into that sort of thing, excellent cinematography and performance by Erwin Leder.



Anyone else seen this?
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Smoking_Gnu
Chicago Favorite

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:22 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:39 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Smoking_Gnu wrote:
Yeah Signs gets way too much hate, I really don't know why it gets lumped in with his Suck Age.

Dude, Signs has aliens that can be stopped by fucking wooden doors. Like, just regular-ass wooden doors :lol:


Well, you got me there. :lol: I guess I tend to be so easily impressed by a movie's atmosphere that I miss the obvious. Like what rexxz was saying earlier about seeing the twist in Arrival within the first 30 minutes; I didn't put everything together completely until the credits rolled...
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rexxz
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:50 pm 
 

Well, it didn't help that in those movies that tend to make it a point to tell you "everything is not as it seems", most of them betray the twist early on with foreshadowing or telegraphing in some way. The twists that really get me are when you watch a movie and it just seems like everything is exactly as it should be, not putting you in a state of doubt at all.
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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:56 pm 
 

Foreshadowing is pretty much the biggest thing that separates a good twist from a shit one. One is well crafted and well executed, the other just deliberately lies to you and then acts smug about it.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:28 pm 
 

I didn't get what was going on in Arrival at all until the ending. That one was really well done in that department, I thought. I had a similar experience there as Gnu did with Signs, I suppose.

With Signs, I just hated the shitty 'everything happens for a reason' religious message. It was so hacky and trite. The way the movie bent over backwards inventing contrivances to prove its point was even worse and I thought it was terrible writing. Like Cloud Atlas, it has a bad message and has a bad way of getting there. Awful film to me...
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:01 pm 
 

Good foreshadowing isn't obvious, to the point where you don't even recognize it as foreshadowing, or misinterpret what it was foreshadowing until it becomes clear later on. This is sometimes called "burying the gun" after Chekhov's gun - you want to set the gun up so it doesn't come out of nowhere, but you want to "bury" it as well. These days everyone has been exposed to so many movies and whatnot that it can be very hard to set something up without tipping the whole thing off.
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rexxz
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:04 pm 
 

It's just so hard to do, and such a personal and subjective thing. I tend to give a wide margin of error as it were for directors that use foreshadowing because I've watched films with people who were completely befuddled and amazed at twists and turns where I just sat in amusement with everything happening as I called it internally. But the reverse is also true for other films, so it's one of those things that's really easy to point at and say "man they should have been more/less obvious with that" and yet the sweet spot is so elusive due to the diverse range of reactions to twists and mysteries.

Some of my favorite "twists" are more accurately labeled as subversions, and I enjoy those the most when they come out of nowhere. For example in the show Stranger Things, when:

Spoiler: show
Steve knucked up and bravely fought the monster at the end, got with the girl Nancy who everyone expected to go with the loner, badboy guy, and also bought him a replacement camera for being a douche earlier. Shit like that was incredible and completely defied expectations and I literally would have never seen that coming.
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~Guest 98976
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:17 pm 
 

It's a critique played up for comedy. If Thiestru can't understand how it's being played up, then I'm not sure what to tell him.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:37 pm 
 

rexxz wrote:
It's just so hard to do, and such a personal and subjective thing. I tend to give a wide margin of error as it were for directors that use foreshadowing because I've watched films with people who were completely befuddled and amazed at twists and turns where I just sat in amusement with everything happening as I called it internally. But the reverse is also true for other films, so it's one of those things that's really easy to point at and say "man they should have been more/less obvious with that" and yet the sweet spot is so elusive due to the diverse range of reactions to twists and mysteries.

Some of my favorite "twists" are more accurately labeled as subversions, and I enjoy those the most when they come out of nowhere. For example in the show Stranger Things, when:

Spoiler: show
Steve knucked up and bravely fought the monster at the end, got with the girl Nancy who everyone expected to go with the loner, badboy guy, and also bought him a replacement camera for being a douche earlier. Shit like that was incredible and completely defied expectations and I literally would have never seen that coming.

Yeah that was a really good twist in Stranger Things. Made the whole show much more mature imo.

And yeah I agree about foreshadowing/twists, Shutter Island for example had a pretty dang predictable twist, but it still fooled some people, and even though I guessed it right away I still found the reasons behind it to be interesting. Also, with twists, sometimes what comes after is more interesting than the twist itself - in SI, the twist itself wasn't the most interesting part, it was what DiCaprio's character did once he figured it out.
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volutetheswarth
Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:47 pm 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
Thiestru wrote:
My dislike for Kevin Smith comes chiefly from his dopey 'critique' of The Lord of the Rings in Clerks 2. Seriously, can you be more of a bonehead? Also, he didn't need to verbally state his dislike for walking. One look at the guy reveals that.

This is a stupid and really roundabout way to dislike a director.
Maybe I'm misremembering but I thought he was a huge fan of Lord of the Rings? And he was just filling the words of Randal (an obnoxiously rude asshat) to coincide with what Randal would say about LOTR? Fanboyish disliking of Kevin Smith, regardless.

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why
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:27 am 
 

Watched Arrival a second time and this time I was surprised that

Spoiler: show
The very first line spoken in the movie was already a forshadowing of the ending reveal. Paraphrased it was something like "Past, present and future appear interchangable". This might have made some very attentive people already cautious, especially if they have experience with many movies in which chronology is put into question. It truly is a thin line between giving too much or too little away and this heavily depends on the mindset, experiences and interests of the particular viewer. I understand both sides of the argument, but in the case of Arrival I didn't really get it until the very end and then the forshadowing before came clear to me little by little so the reveal didn't seem unfair but instead extremely clever.


I'm gonna watch it a third time on sunday, this time in the original language version (first two times was the German dub, which I would rate "pretty good") and I'll be focusing on everything related to sound design and use of music score and the differences in dialogue and voices.

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~Guest 171512
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:19 am 
 

I didn't know Smith was a LOTR fan. I just figured he was voicing his opinion via a character, since I knew that he was a die-hard Star Wars fan and some people seem to think you have to be in one camp or the other. Regardless, it came at a time when I kept hearing that critique, and it got so old. That and the 'Frodo and Sam are' gay' thing.

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~Guest 21181
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:08 am 
 

I didn't get any hint of the big reveal in Arrival before the actual reveal. Honestly, the story as presented on screen made perfect sense beforehand; it's not like everything was a mess or confusing or mysterious and then suddenly made sense at the end. Even the
Spoiler: show
part about needing to know the future to speak to the Chinese general would have made sense without the parts about the future kid; the plot resolution doesn't require her to be married with a child in the future. She could have been married with a child in the past and still come to solve the problem with the Chinese general once she learned Heptapod B.

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rexxz
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:12 pm 
 

I felt the exact opposite. To me as soon as they started showing certain scenes I knew everything was out of place and very quickly figured out the twist within the first 30-45 minutes. Mine and your experiences are a perfect example of the diversity of reactions to twists and mysteries that I was just talking about.
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~Guest 171512
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:49 pm 
 

I just watched The Monster, from this year. I REALLY liked this movie. In fact, I found it heartbreaking. I don't even want to say much about it here; it's better you just watch it for yourself. But basically, there's a little girl, her alcoholic mother, and they're taking a drive to the girl's father's place on a rainy night through the woods to drop her off there to live. They hit a wolf, and things go downhill. I found it much more tragic than scary, and well worth a watch, or two.

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kluseba
Making Metal Archives Reviews Great Again!

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:57 pm 
 

I watched Arrival last night. I liked the clever story itself, the movie's numbing atmosphere and the mysterious visuals. I guessed the twist about halfway through the movie. The only downside was the movie's length. The ending was a little bit overlong and melodramatic. The movie should have just finished with the final revelation to end on a more efficient note. Overall a 7,5/10 for me.

I also watched Allied and would also give it a solid 7,5/10 but for completely different reasons. The movie also convinces with a gripping atmosphere that makes the horrors of the Second World War come alive. The acting performances were really good and I thought Cotillard and Pitt had great chemistry. The movie didn't have any lengths but the story was somewhat predictable.

I wrote a review for ''Yoga Hosers'': http://kluseba.eklablog.com/them-goddam ... a127741070

Finally, this turns out to be a quite good cinematic year after a really shallow start.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:36 am 
 

Finally got around to watching Turbo Kid. Definitely an all-around good movie, with a good story, cool setting, neat soundtrack, and real heart. But I feel like the hype around it (at least that I've been exposed to) is a bit hyperbolic. It seems to me that the reason it gets built up so much is because so many movies these days are terrible, rather than because it's exceptionally good itself. The standards for B movies have gone so far downhill since the 80s that not being a horrible failure in one or more respects is cause for celebration.
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~Guest 171512
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:30 pm 
 

I just watched Death at a Funeral. How have I never seen this before? This movie is hysterical, really destined to be a classic of British comedy.

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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:53 am 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Finally got around to watching Turbo Kid. Definitely an all-around good movie, with a good story, cool setting, neat soundtrack, and real heart. But I feel like the hype around it (at least that I've been exposed to) is a bit hyperbolic. It seems to me that the reason it gets built up so much is because so many movies these days are terrible, rather than because it's exceptionally good itself. The standards for B movies have gone so far downhill since the 80s that not being a horrible failure in one or more respects is cause for celebration.

I'm one of those people who praised it to that extent, but I see your criticism. It's still a b-movie, one that stumbles over itself toward the end a little bit and doesn't always adhere to its own logic, but the two leads (Kid and Apple) more than make up for whatever faults it has. It's rare to find a movie with actual heart in it these days, so when one does come along you have to grab it and hold it up.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:53 pm 
 

Yeah, it just felt a tad underdeveloped, a tad too tongue-in-cheek, and missing something to really put it over the top - the villains were excellent at first (the scene with the intestine bicycle for example was great) but then never really got developed much, until the final twist of course, which just got kinda rushed through (also the mouth laser thing was stupid). I like how the movie just plopped us into its world, but at the same time, some things could've been fleshed out way more - where exactly did Apple come from and why? Was she like a spy who had a change of heart or was she just wandering around with no agenda? The movie dropped some hints, sure, and I get that it was going for a tight 90-minute running time, but a few minutes of backstory/character building for a MAIN CHARACTER is worth spending a little time on, especially given that the more attached we are to her, the bigger the impact of the ending.

At the same time Turbo Kid completely shits all over something like Kung Fury or, I dunno, fucking Dream Warriors, so don't mistake my criticisms for being ungrateful. I look forward to Turbo Kid II.
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why
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:56 am 
 

Finally saw shin godzilla in an absolutely pirated version. No chance of it getting a EU theatrical release any time soon I guess.
It was very good, both the human and monstrous/action oriented aspects of it. Also,
Spoiler: show
RIP special crane platoon 1! :(

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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:31 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
I like how the movie just plopped us into its world, but at the same time, some things could've been fleshed out way more - where exactly did Apple come from and why? Was she like a spy who had a change of heart or was she just wandering around with no agenda? The movie dropped some hints, sure, and I get that it was going for a tight 90-minute running time, but a few minutes of backstory/character building for a MAIN CHARACTER is worth spending a little time on, especially given that the more attached we are to her, the bigger the impact of the ending.

They actually tell you what she is and where she's from, and then elaborate on it via a music video (just linking to the YouTube).
Spoiler: show
She's a robot designed to be a friend from before the war, and that's why she's so naive about everybody around her and so incessant on being the Kid's friend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8kFIbmmuEk
Quote:
At the same time Turbo Kid completely shits all over something like Kung Fury or, I dunno, fucking Dream Warriors, so don't mistake my criticisms for being ungrateful. I look forward to Turbo Kid II.

Aye to this. Turbo Kid is a love-letter to b-cinema of yesteryear, Kung Fury is a quick joke that overstays its welcome.
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Razakel
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:21 pm 
 

This new Mummy movie looks like the worst movie it's possible to imagine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjHgzkQM2Sg

So Universal is making their own shared universe by rebooting the Mummy, Dracula, Frankenstein, etc. etc. Ugh. As if popular cinema isn't already in the pits. They're doing the same thing with Godzilla and King Kong which I feel bitter and disappointed by as a Godzilla fan. Just more big franchises to milk I guess. At least we have Toho back in action, where Godzilla is concerned.

RIP the Brendan Fraser Mummy series.

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Waltz_of_Ghouls
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:41 pm 
 

Razakel wrote:
This new Mummy movie looks like the worst movie it's possible to imagine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjHgzkQM2Sg

So Universal is making their own shared universe by rebooting the Mummy, Dracula, Frankenstein, etc. etc. Ugh. As if popular cinema isn't already in the pits. They're doing the same thing with Godzilla and King Kong which I feel bitter and disappointed by as a Godzilla fan. Just more big franchises to milk I guess. At least we have Toho back in action, where Godzilla is concerned.

RIP the Brendan Fraser Mummy series.



Wow that new Mission Impossible looks awful!

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:45 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
They actually tell you what she is and where she's from, and then elaborate on it via a music video (just linking to the YouTube).
Spoiler: show
She's a robot designed to be a friend from before the war, and that's why she's so naive about everybody around her and so incessant on being the Kid's friend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8kFIbmmuEk

Yeah, I knew that, but was she just wandering around non-stop since the war without learning anything? Was she down in a vault and only just now surfaced? Wasn't the war robots vs. humans? The movie could've given her a LITTLE more backstory.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:46 pm 
 

Razakel wrote:
RIP the Brendan Fraser Mummy series.

I mean, that series was fucking awful to begin with, but this looks fucking awful in a completely different way. I hope it's a total bomb.
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andersbang
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:49 pm 
 

Watched Arrival yesterday. I didn't get the reveal till the end, but I must admit I feel a little let down about the movie. My hopes were probably too high. It was cool, but in the end closer to okay rather than great.

Spoiler: show
First of all, both me and my girlfriend thought that the totally-alien-language-slash-what-do-you-do-when-something-alien-you-don't-understand-arrives-shoot-or-try-to-communicate-dimensions/allegory were interesting enough and a great take on the invasion genre that the whole time/see-into-the-future thing felt kinda tacked on and unneeded, (though I found it pretty neatly done technically) - though we probably like the language angle more than most, being respectively a journalist and a rhetorician. I didn't either really like how for most of the movie the feeling of threat was coming from the other dudes, not the aliens (seriously you have whale-spider-squid monsters from space that you can't communicate with and the perceived enemy is the... Chinese?!).

And please. Can we get some colors in here. This drab grey-blue tinge with glowing orange in select scenes (here, in the flash forwards) is getting tiriiiing.

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Turd Blaster
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:43 pm 
 

Since I haven't seen the movie yet, I'm trying to not read what you wrote up there because you did not properly spoiler that homeboy :wink:
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:52 pm 
 

Yeah, me neither. I fixed it for him but c'mon bro.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:12 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Razakel wrote:
RIP the Brendan Fraser Mummy series.

I mean, that series was fucking awful to begin with, but this looks fucking awful in a completely different way. I hope it's a total bomb.

Yeah The Mummy movies have not held up at all, clunky characters, virtually no arc, disposable "comedic" dialogue which is mostly just yelling, terrible CGI and a vast abundance of it, and the constant aura of a third-rate Indiana Jones rip-off with a mediocre script/lead actor.

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Subrick
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:53 am 
 

The only good thing that the Brendan Fraser Mummy movies ever gave the world was the genesis of The Rock's movie career. Beyond that, none of those movies are worth a single drip of shit at all.
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~Guest 98976
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:35 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
The only good thing that the Brendan Fraser Mummy movies ever gave the world was the genesis of The Rock's movie career. Beyond that, none of those movies are worth a single drip of shit at all.

I think that actually started with Fast Five. That was the first film that made his involvement seem like a complete fucking revelation.

Also, it's been many years since I've seen it, but I've always loved the OG Mummy movie. It's just a really stupendously stupid action film, characters dual-fisted shooting at mummies John Woo-style because why the fuck not?

Also, I will not accept people taking a shit on Kung Fury! You know nothing of the greatness that is TriceraCop!

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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:02 am 
 

Maybe it's just from all my years firmly inside the wrestling bubble, but The Mummy Returns is what convinced producers that the Rock could carry his own movie. If The Rundown did better financially he'd have been at his current level of stardom much earlier.

Also, The Rundown is a fun buddy action flick. It's a shame Seann William Scott and the Rock haven't done more work together because their chemistry was perfect.

Watched A Christmas Horror Story last night, which touts itself as an anthology movie in the same vein as Trick R' Treat. It's not bad, and a last-minute reveal saves one of the stories from being abysmal (not due to content but more tonal shift), but there's too little interaction in the stories for it to be paced as it is and come out the better for it. Each story is shown in bits, with the tension mounting equally in each as it continues (not unlike how a show featuring multiple character arcs will focus chunks on each bit), and it's fun how each story finds its tension rising simultaneously with the others, but there's too much of a disconnect between them for the concept to truly work. Trick R' Treat had each story intersect with characters, events, and places being shared, but this seems too much like like it was 3-4 separate stories that were chopped together rather than a coherent multi-narrative. William Shatner is awesome as the DJ, though, and the story centering on the changeling could have (possibly should have) been its own movie.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:29 pm 
 

The Mummy Returns directly led to The Scorpion King, which led to The Rundown and Walking Tall. He bounced around doing a mixture of both starring and supporting roles in a variety of movies, but it wasn't until Fast Five that he became an ultra-mega A-list box office superduperstar like he is now.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:32 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
Watched A Christmas Horror Story last night, which touts itself as an anthology movie in the same vein as Trick R' Treat. It's not bad, and a last-minute reveal saves one of the stories from being abysmal (not due to content but more tonal shift), but there's too little interaction in the stories for it to be paced as it is and come out the better for it. Each story is shown in bits, with the tension mounting equally in each as it continues (not unlike how a show featuring multiple character arcs will focus chunks on each bit), and it's fun how each story finds its tension rising simultaneously with the others, but there's too much of a disconnect between them for the concept to truly work. Trick R' Treat had each story intersect with characters, events, and places being shared, but this seems too much like like it was 3-4 separate stories that were chopped together rather than a coherent multi-narrative. William Shatner is awesome as the DJ, though, and the story centering on the changeling could have (possibly should have) been its own movie.


A friend and I are definitely doing this for my blog at the end of the month sometime.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:48 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
It's a shame Seann William Scott and the Rock haven't done more work together because their chemistry was perfect.


Have you seen Southland Tales? It got pretty terrible reception when it came out, but I think it is just fantastic. It's a very bizarre acid-trip interpretation of the book of Revelation, directed by Richard Kelly (director of Donnie Darko).

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:25 pm 
 

Also, Transformers The Movie (1986) has been re-released on Blu-Ray. That was my absolute favorite movie growing up and is very nostalgic for me. I should pick that one up...

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MikeyC
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:25 pm 
 

Speaking of The Mummy, whatever happened to Brendan Fraser? Haven't seen him in a movie for a very long time.
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