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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:09 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
We just have a superhuman serial killer with a predilection for killing in conveniently dramatic ways. Why did he do all that crap? Because he's CRAZY, MAN! And oh yeah, SOCIETY!


That's exactly my problem with Ledger's Joker.
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volutetheswarth
Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:42 pm 
 

Smoking_Gnu wrote:
Giving Spacey's character a motivation and backstory in Se7en would have grounded it in a manner that would be completely at odds with the movie's surreal and supernatural overtones; he appears in the movie not as some human with a psychological excuse but more the representation of chaos and unpredictability.
Yeah, I think certain MA users are on crazy pills. To give Spacey's character backstory would destroy the terrifying nature of his crimes. What you see at the end when he turns himself in, is not a vicious looking monster as the crimes make us believe, but a thin average every man, the fact we don't know about him more than a John Doe summary and his hate filled books makes the viewer try to fill in the gaps and hang on his every word as though it were a clue, thus a highly engrossing movie and a mystery that doesn't kowtow to simpletons needing an explanation as to why and every little thing spelled out.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:12 pm 
 

Or, more likely, the screenwriter wanted an excuse to come up with a series of gory ironic murders based on the seven deadly sins, and couldn't think of a very good reason for them to happen. After all, his other credits include such classics as Sleepy Hollow. It's an open-ended mystery that doesn't end up being very intriguing.

And how does it make sense that Spacey's character represents chaos and unpredictability, when his entire motivation is based around methodically-planned ironic justice based on an incredibly rules-based, repressive system? If you want to say that he represents something, I'd say he much more represents moral justice, except it's the sort of moral justice that society lacks the cojones to carry out. He says that god told him to punish the wicked, after all. He represents the moral disgust that we all feel for greedy lawyers and whatnot but ultimately ignore. It's not a terrible concept, but it's just not very well-explored. The film spends too much time on the killings and not enough working on its premise.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:31 pm 
 

Let's not forget his even more prestigious writing credentials like 2010's The Wolfman and fucking 8MM. :rolleyes:

Not saying he can't be a good writer, just saying it hasn't happened yet. I actually read through an earlier draft of Se7en and it was actually a lot worse than the movie itself (which is somewhat uncommon). Same for Basic Instinct. Actually, Andrew Kevin Walker and Joe Eszterhas are similar in a lot of ways...
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:05 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Sure, there's a certain appeal to the idea of that kind of mysterious superman serial killer monster, but I think it's a shallower appeal than what we get out of Hannibal Lecter and Jame Gumb and the rest. I do like Se7en, but I get much more rewatch value out of Manhunter or The Silence of the Lambs or Profondo Rosso, which are basically in my "unlimited rewatchability" category.


Not really a superman serial killer monster; more like the "voice of God" unhinged quiet, normal-looking man. The kills might be super over the top and elaborate, but what I liked about "John Doe" was less the implausibility behind the kills and more his monologues in the car at the end.

It's a bit of a weak spot that you don't get much of a backstory behind why he's doing this shit, but the character is so well acted, the dialogue so well delivered and the scenes you do get, pretty much make you forget that and keep the story rolling anyway - or they do for me anyway.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:11 pm 
 

I mean superman more in terms of his ability to pull these crimes off, his ability to evade the police and make them look like chumps, etc.
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volutetheswarth
Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:18 pm 
 

^ I would further discuss Se7en, if the criticism wasn't as baseless as it has "no compelling characters, unpredictable plot twists and memorable dialog". Empyreal has addressed the characters anyway. Also the argument about comparing a filmography is poor and mostly superficial, bad writers are capable of writing masterworks just as good writers are capable of utter trash.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:20 pm 
 

:lol: Ok pal.
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volutetheswarth
Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:23 pm 
 

^It's pretty obvious you've got a bone to pick with me because of my Babadook post, which mind you was answered (seemingly randomly considering the direction of the discussion) three days after I posted it. The post I just made was clearly directed more towards darkeningday. Saying something is "awesome" only to essentially negate those feelings of astoundment throughout your mini review is foolhardy, excuse me if I don't question and sit idly by to those type of movie ratings.

In hindsight I don't even care, and I'm sorry if you took my questioning your review the wrong way.

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I_Crash_and_Burn
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:16 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:43 pm 
 

Yesterday night I went watching the "Everest" film, based on the tragedy of may 1996, and it is a hell of a film. I write from Italy so maybe we've gotten it here with a delay, but if somebody's curious about it, I suggest him to trustly buy the ticket and spend 2 hours with a great movie.

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Xeogred
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:28 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:50 pm 
 

A special thanks to Under_Starmere for the Angel Heart (1987) recommendation. That was damn good stuff. Amazing atmosphere and pacing. I'm still dissecting it but there were dozens of scenes and striking imagery that I'll never forget after that single viewing. The rape scene was very extreme though, I can't remember the last time I almost wanted to look away for a bit, but this scene was pretty damn disgusting. It dipped a little near the end and I'm not sure about the grand conclusion, but the journey was awesome and it was overall damn good stuff if you can handle the disturbances. Del Niro's character was crazy.

Nowhere near Jacob's Ladder level for me, but I can see how that one brought this up. Definitely check it out if you want some detective horror noir.

Anything else quite like these? Love a good mystery surreal venture with a good singular lead.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:57 pm 
 

The Machinist is probably the next one to recommend. Magnificent stuff.

Saw Halloween III Season of the Witch...pretty slow and silly at times, but I liked it. It was cheesy in a fun, pleasant 80s kind of way. I don't think it needed to be near two hours long, that's insanity. But the story was a lot of fun and the action, when the movie got down to it, was pretty fun. The story about masks killing kids was delightfully pulpy and even hilarious with how insane it was. I liked that this didn't try to get too dramatic or take itself too seriously. Just a corny, goofy fun movie.
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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:01 pm 
 

Halloween 3 was fucking hilarious and fun. It's like a bad James Bond plot gone horribly wrong in all the best ways. The laser death with the lady in the bed was amazing. Beats the hell out of the rest of the franchise (not that I tried really hard to watch them all).

The Machinist for my recommendation? I would never have guessed that one. Guess I really don't know much about it other than Bale being anorexic or something.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:04 pm 
 

The guy who played Conal Cochran was the best part of the whole thing, that dude was fucking great. The main guy was a bit lame, but he was serviceable - just an 80s mustachioed man in a jacket. Eh.

The Machinist is different from Jacob's Ladder and Angel Heart, more modern and a bit more "oh wow, psychological twist!" in terms of its story. But it's so good, and there's a legit good story behind it that goes beyond a gimmicky twist.
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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:08 pm 
 

I still say that Halloween should've gone in an anthology-film direction, with each new film tackling a new story like they did with Season of the Witch. Two movies of Michael Myers is more than enough, goddammit. Was it really necessary to take 20-something years for something like Trick 'R Treat to finally be made?
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:25 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
The Machinist is different from Jacob's Ladder and Angel Heart, more modern and a bit more "oh wow, psychological twist!" in terms of its story. But it's so good, and there's a legit good story behind it that goes beyond a gimmicky twist.

But it's all about that twist. Like, I'm not saying you can't enjoy it up to that moment, reveling in the atmosphere and sallow characters and strange dialog ("If you were any thinner, you wouldn't exist") and surreal happenings, but every little thing that propels the story forward is predicated on that "gimmicky twist." And it isn't a good one in my opinion. It's a high school masterpiece; the kind of movie your stoner friend shows you after a really stressful exam that "completely blows your fucking mind" and it changes your entire outlook on life and ruins you for all other movies and you just can't stop thinking about it omg that moment when _____ or that scene with _______. But then you watch it like 4 years later and realize it's all rather silly.
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chaossphere
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:27 pm 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
I still say that Halloween should've gone in an anthology-film direction, with each new film tackling a new story like they did with Season of the Witch. Two movies of Michael Myers is more than enough, goddammit. Was it really necessary to take 20-something years for something like Trick 'R Treat to finally be made?


^That was Carpenter's plan, but after Season of the Witch flopped the studio decided to play it safe and turn Halloween into yet another same-shit/different-film slasher franchise.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:32 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
The Machinist is different from Jacob's Ladder and Angel Heart, more modern and a bit more "oh wow, psychological twist!" in terms of its story. But it's so good, and there's a legit good story behind it that goes beyond a gimmicky twist.

But it's all about that twist. Like, I'm not saying you can't enjoy it up to that moment, reveling in the atmosphere and sallow characters and strange dialog ("If you were any thinner, you wouldn't exist") and surreal happenings, but every little thing that propels the story forward is predicated on that "gimmicky twist." And it isn't a good one in my opinion. It's a high school masterpiece; the kind of movie your stoner friend shows you after a really stressful exam that "completely blows your fucking mind" and it changes your entire outlook on life and ruins you for all other movies and you just can't stop thinking about it omg that moment when _____ or that scene with _______. But then you watch it like 4 years later and realize it's all rather silly.


It was the opposite for me. I watched it in high school and thought wow, what a great and shocking twist. But then I saw it again a year or two ago and found it this really great film about a deeply troubled man. Surreal and bizarre shit, but the way Bale acts it (one of his best roles really), the way the story unfolds through the thrilling moments and scares as well as the dramatic ones...it's a much cleverer and better movie than just another shocking twist/high school flick. It's good even when you know the twist, because they draw you into the story. It holds up.
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WillyB
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:15 pm 
 

Just rewatched the Babadook and still cant get past that fucking voice they used for the monster. Took me out of the movie which is otherwise great.
Watching Hellraiser again now. Always a classic movie, one of my first horror films
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:09 pm 
 

OK, saw The Poughkeepsie Tapes...what the fuck, man. I have to give it credit, it's one of the sickest senses of humor I've ever seen in a movie. They really played with your expectations with this, while also doing a pretty dogged, hard-edged satire of the serial killer genre. The way the cops in the movie ended up sort of grudgingly admiring the killer was crazy, and

Spoiler: show
there's a plot point in the movie literally interrupted by Sept. 11 attacks - that's fucking insane.


The torture room scenes were gruesome to watch, but once the movie was over I realized they hadn't actually ever shown us much gore - only ever implied it through words or shown us peoples' reactions, so it never exactly touched on the truly exploitative, pandering element some of these films can have. The insanity just builds and builds until you realize, subtly, that what you're watching is not a grotesque or brutal movie, but a completely ludicrous farce.

It's had me thinking all day, so that's something. I wonder what these guys would be able to do with a real budget.
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~Guest 98976
Metal Pounder

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:56 pm 
 

Emp, why do you subject yourself to horrible things?!

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:05 pm 
 

I was saying it was good.
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~Guest 98976
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:28 pm 
 

Horrible = graphic, horrifying, tortuous shit.

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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:55 pm 
 

Poughkeepsie Tapes is my favourite found footage film. It doesn't get talked about enough.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:15 am 
 

Poughkeepsie Tapes is good except for the tail end with the detective deducing, "This killer may attend the screenings of any film about him!!!!!" which should have been removed from anything but the theatrical cut.

Also, Poughkeepsie Tapes wasn't a satire under even the loosest definition of the word...
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:20 am 
 

Don't think I have a favourite found footage movie, some are moderate to ok, nothing I'd ever rave about though.

I have yet to see The Sacrament so maybe I'll be surprised.

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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:45 am 
 

Don't Look Now was amazing. Very subtle mindfuck with insanely awesome payoff. Some heavy stuff for sure. I'd probably put that above Angel Heart, since the ending was just way better. But still can't beat Jacob's Ladder haha. Don't Look Now was 73' though, so maybe the first of this type of horror (if you can even call it horror). I'm hearing good things about the original Wicker Man too, so I might check that out soon.

Also watched Conquest (1983), I just had to watch it off youtube. What has been seen, cannot be unseen with this one. Well I guess it has a soundtrack by Claudio Simonetti and his stuff seems amazing, that was the best part. It had a cool dreamy look and vibe going for it. But for the most part it felt like an R-rated Hercules/Xena episode on drugs. Yep.





Definitely one of those "no way in hell could this be made today" kind of movies. For better or worse...

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:27 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Poughkeepsie Tapes is good except for the tail end with the detective deducing, "This killer may attend the screenings of any film about him!!!!!" which should have been removed from anything but the theatrical cut.

Also, Poughkeepsie Tapes wasn't a satire under even the loosest definition of the word...


Really seemed like it was to me. It came off as a riffing of the whole 'invincible, implausible' serial killer trope, which we've discussed here even. What would you say it was actually trying to do then?
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:09 pm 
 

I really, really like The Poughkeepsie Tapes. Probably the best of the bunch when it comes to found footage movies, simply for just how disturbing and terrifying it is without really being a total gorefest. Reading this little bit about it possibly being satire did make me think that the killer was a little too smart and cunning, but at the same time there have been real life serial killers that have evaded police for decades without anyone knowing anything about the guy behind the mask.

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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:27 pm 
 

I didn't get the satire angle, it just seemed a disturbing documentation on this ever elusive monster to play on fears, playing on the Zodiac untraceable killer aspect.

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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:17 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
darkeningday wrote:
Poughkeepsie Tapes is good except for the tail end with the detective deducing, "This killer may attend the screenings of any film about him!!!!!" which should have been removed from anything but the theatrical cut.

Also, Poughkeepsie Tapes wasn't a satire under even the loosest definition of the word...


Really seemed like it was to me. It came off as a riffing of the whole 'invincible, implausible' serial killer trope, which we've discussed here even. What would you say it was actually trying to do then?

Not at all, the killer invented for The Poughkeepsie Tapes is a patchwork of the scariest (and most publicized) traits from 'real' serial killers. The premise is based on the aphorism "there's nothing scarier than the truth." The Dowdle's goal was to make the scariest thing possible by making something that the audience could actually believe is real, which is why they added that stupid, "THE KILLER MIGHT BE IN ATTENDANCE OF THE SCREENING OF THIS VERY MOVIE!!!" at the end.

It's basically just horror porn; you're digging way too deep.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:40 pm 
 

Eh, about halfway through, when it just kept going on and on and got to the

Spoiler: show
"he switched out the semen from a sperm bank" plot, then the 9/11 tie in...and his ridiculous costume, again the way he kept eluding the law, etc. The cops were helplessly stupid, overblown caricatures of the kinds of cops these movies have, and that "he might be watching the movie in theaters" line was also part of what made me think it was a joke.


It just got ridiculous fast. There was some really disturbing shit too, but yeah, a lot of it was really ludicrous and struck me as parodic rather than actually chilling realism. Fair enough on the 'horror porn' bit though - can't argue with that.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:03 am 
 

I mean honestly, you're smarter than the intended audience was. I think what you interpreted as so-ridiculous-it's-silly was meant to be knock-your-socks-off-terrifying for the audience. But that said it was clearly a movie made to be watched in a crowded dark theater; watching it anywhere else is going to hamper that illusion.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:33 pm 
 



^Adding to the trend of using normally cheery songs in an unpleasant way. It's like a game, guess which nursery rhyme they use?
The film in question does seem like it'll be good however and it's by the director of The Road and Lawless.

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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:24 pm 
 

And The Proposition :). Is Nick Cave involved in this one too?
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chaossphere
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:45 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
And The Proposition :). Is Nick Cave involved in this one too?


Doesn't look like it, the writer is an unknown with only one documentary co-directing credit and a few other minor things to his name.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:33 am 
 

Sad. I wasn't a huge fan of the way The Proposition was written (still a good movie though, Ray Winstone <3) but everything about Lawless was great... except for the name. Seriously, who thought that would be a good name?
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chaossphere
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:19 am 
 

Dunno, I guess they decided "Ultraviolent Outlaw Hillbilly Moonshiners vs DEA Psychopaths" was a bit of a mouthful.

It's not that bad of a title, since it aptly describes both sides of the conflict. Guy Pearce's character was no more lawful-minded than any of the brothers, he basically had no limits as to how far - and how unlawful and immoral - he'd go to achieve his goals.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:00 pm 
 

last night I finally watched Whiplash, and today Sicario, and they were both really good. the former even better than the hype made it seem. made a nice change after all the crap movies I had watched recently... :)
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the devil is very old indeed, we sit with a few stories to tell

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~Guest 282118
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8300
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:51 pm 
 

Anyone here familiar with the 1988 remake of The Blob?

Shit's good.

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