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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:21 pm 
 

That part should be part of the reason to see the movie.
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Kerrick
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:35 pm 
 

^Eh, I used to eat that stuff [gore] up like candy but that torturous, sadistic violence doesn’t have any draw for me. Additionally, it just doesn’t sit well and beyond not being enjoyable, it is particularly un-enjoyable. This may be an interesting thread topic in itself: violence in film and its effect on the viewers.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:58 pm 
 

Kerrick wrote:
^I actually just turned away for that part and didn't watch. The sounds were sufficient enough. I love horror flicks though as time goes on, I'm becoming more discerning of what I put in my brain.

The same goes for me. I'm against censorship yet I don't think I'd be protesting if graphic and realistic torture for purely "entertainment" sake in horror movies was made illegal.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:04 pm 
 

Bone Tomahawk isn't really that realistic, so I didn't have a problem with the gore and even really liked it - made it more intense in a way. I'd agree with that in terms of movies like The Loved Ones or other similar exploitative trash though.
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ChineseDownhill
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:13 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
I'm against censorship yet I don't think I'd be protesting if graphic and realistic torture for purely "entertainment" sake in horror movies was made illegal.

I'd certainly be interested in the inevitable First Amendment challenge that would go before the Supreme Court. "I can't define torture porn, but I know it when I see it!"

For the record, when it comes to the best-known torture porn series, I genuinely enjoyed Saw 1 but nothing after it.
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aaronmb666
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:27 am 
 

ChineseDownhill wrote:
darkeningday wrote:
I'm against censorship yet I don't think I'd be protesting if graphic and realistic torture for purely "entertainment" sake in horror movies was made illegal.

I'd certainly be interested in the inevitable First Amendment challenge that would go before the Supreme Court. "I can't define torture porn, but I know it when I see it!"

For the record, when it comes to the best-known torture porn series, I genuinely enjoyed Saw 1 but nothing after it.


I enjoyed the series, though I hated 5. The last Saw was kind of annoying as the ending felt lazy, as
Spoiler: show
it was already fan fiction before the second one even came out

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acid_bukkake
SAD!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:12 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
I'm against censorship yet I don't think I'd be protesting if graphic and realistic torture for purely "entertainment" sake in horror movies was made illegal.

I would. Whether used to illustrate a grander purpose or purely for exploitative reasons, art is art. Don't like it? Don't watch it. The "where do we draw the line" argument is typically stated by the same speaker who could mockingly be referred to as the old man yelling at the kids to get off his lawn.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:54 am 
 

Just watched Ali3n for the first time; both the theatrical version and the pseudo director's cut. What do people around here think about it? I honestly think it has some of the best scenes and characters in all of the franchise (Charles Dance is electrifying and Weaver turns in her most subtle performance to date) but man, the movie is just a total fucking mess and while the plot technically makes sense (unlike Alien Resurrection) it doesn't make any thematic or symbolic sense (also unlike Alien Resurrection). Main characters die for no reason at all, many motivations are absolutely idiotic (in the assembly cut, a nutjob decides to loose the Alien from captivity because he sees it as a religious figure because... reasons), there's these insanely heavy-handed religious and civil unrest overtones but nothing ever comes of it, there's a twist near the end that re-introduces a beloved character from Aliens, avaing for no reason, etc. You can tell this thing went through more drafts than Colin Farrell on St. Patty's day, because it jumps around from traditional sci-fi horror to timid religious allegory (which reminds me of the 2nd Planet of the Apes movie) to a prison escape movie from the 80's and doesn't even TRY to bring them together in a meaningful way.

What do you guys think, and how do you compare it to the other three (esp Alien 4)?
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volutetheswarth
Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:50 am 
 

I use to really like Alien 3 but gave it a re-watch some years back and was largely disappointed. Visually I think the lighting/scenery/style is still very memorable (although so clearly a "90's" movie) and CGI never bothered me as much as it bothers others. Charles Dance is indeed excellent and Weaver is heart-wrenching in some scenes. Agreed it's a mess. The characters are mostly deplorable slime so you don't particularity care if they die and at times I was rooting for the Alien. It doesn't help that the stalk and kill is like 60% or 70% of the movie. At lot of scenes are needlessly gory or gross, the decapitated Bishop talking scene was :ugh:.. It's largely predictable and the jumpscares never make you (the audience) jump.

As you mentioned there's a bunch of plot elements that never really eventuate, sort of a jagged spewing of scenes in the middle. Weaver gets her character moments but everyone else is just a angry rabbit in headlights. I don't trust her, rar rar, pivotal death, rar rar, what do we do, rar rar, we kill it, etc. I think the ending was really gutsy so I'll give them credit for that. Although leading up to it (The third act ending) felt very rushed, the POV shots too excessive (what is this Evil Dead?), and I almost felt sorry for it (I'm pretty sure I was supposed to feel relieved).

Shit slinging aside I'd watch Ali3n over 4. Resurrection was like Deep Blue Sea with Aliens. Weaver being an unbelievable weirdo clone/action hero. Brad Dourif being weird sex pervert creepy (not good creepy like Exorcist 3). Rest of the characters serving as self-ego-stroking boofheads. It's not funny and it tries to be. And to top it off it's got some ungodly vomit inducing Alien/human hybrid.

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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:54 am 
 

I'm an even bigger Xeno fanboy than I am a Ghostbusters fanboy. I'm getting that out of the way right now.

Alien 3 is...decent. It's miraculous that either version, theatrical or assembly cut, is as good as it is. The production was a nightmare, the script was constantly changing, the producers got into arguments with director David Finch on an almost daily basis, and it was clear that this was a rush job and not the labor of love that the first two were.

I'm not sure what other editions have it, but the Quadrilogy box set contains a documentary on each of the four films, and the one for Alien 3 is outstanding. They talk about William Gibson's script and how Giler/Hill liked it but didn't love it, go over Eric Red's "wooden planet" treatment (which ended up as the skeleton for the end result), there's talk of wanting to return to the horror of the first and away from the action of the second, how Fincher's naivete was abused by 20th Century Fox, and even the difficulty of redesigning the Xeno.

What do I think? I think the movie's a fucking trainwreck, but there are enough positives to enjoy it. I don't blame Neil Blomkamp for doing what every Xeno-fan of the past 20 years has wanted to do (make a direct sequel to Aliens that forgets 3 and 4). In a way, this was the first entry of the series to immediately feel of its era. There are timeless qualities to the first two films, often the only hint of its date of origin being the hair styles of the cast, but this one is so '90s it hurts.
-Unnecessary sepia tone? Check.
-Industrial soundtrack? Check.
-Depressing aura? Check.

One thing I will argue about is your point that 3 lacks thematic/symbolic sense from the plot. The entire story is about loss and redemption. It's not done well, but it's there.

Resurrection, though, is a steaming pile of fucking dogshit written by a guy known only for comedy and directed by a guy known primarily for the comic tone of his work. Biggest misstep of the entire fucking series.
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NTT
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:54 am 
 

volutetheswarth wrote:
It's not funny and it tries to be..


The trademark of writer Joss Whedon.

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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:03 am 
 

The worst part of Resurrection is Whedon's, and his fans', defense. "The studio/director changed his script" is the most common cry, but the actual script and the end product differ very little.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:05 am 
 

I actually like the alien/human hybrid as its own thing, but I agree it doesn't fit at all with the Alien lore. Ripley being a part-alien clone supersoldier was cool though, because it set up probably the only really good scene in the movie, where they find all the failed versions of herself in the tanks.

Otherwise yeah, scattered good ideas, but mostly shitty.

As for the director/screenwriter woes - both Jean-Pierre Jeunet and Joss Whedon have done great things before and since, but why the FUCK would anyone think those two guys should be paired up at all, much less on an Alien sequel??????? A French director who makes surreal arthouse horror/comedies paired with a guy who writes snappy fantasy/action/comedies with lots of pop culture references - it's the fucking dumbest idea ever.
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demonomania
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:30 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
I've gotten into the work of Andy Sidaris, best known for his raucous exploitation/softcore porn d-grade comedy/action movies of the '80s and '90s. They're basically Troma flicks without Lloyd Kaufman's politics or DIY charm, replacing it with even more excess and lunacy, all the while it's painfully obvious Sidaris was a horrid filmmaker in addition to a colossal pervert. Still, though, [i]Hard Ticket to Hawaii is one of the most hilariously entertaining movies I've seen in quite some time, and it knows fully what it is from the get go: an excuse for ridiculous kills (razor-laced Frisbee and a bazooka to a blow-up doll), buxom bosoms, and cringe-worthy dialogue.


Loved "Hard Ticket," like Skinemax meets Bond. Would love to see more of his work, but it seems a bit hard to find. Speaking of Troma, enjoyed their immensely stupid "Pot Zombies" a few weeks ago. Abysmal special effects, Kaufman as a challenged pizza delivery guy, and an "eating-out" scene that predated a similar gag in "Scout's Guide..." - what's not to enjoy?

On another note, watched Jeepers Creepers 2 and the effects therein were awesome. Acting not so much, but the Shrim guy did a good job. A pretty badass monster, so I'm surprised they haven't made more of these films.
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rexxz
Where's your band?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:31 pm 
 

A third one is being planned, actually.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:33 pm 
 

The Jeepers Creepers movies were kinda fun in a brainless way, but there's just so much better stuff that has come out since - they seemed a lot better when matched with the utter dreck coming out at that time, compared to now.
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acid_bukkake
SAD!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:37 pm 
 

There's a bunch of Sidaris movies on YouTube. That's how I saw Malibu Express and Hard Ticket. There's also Fit to Kill, Picasso Trigger, both Savage Beach movies, and Day of the Warrior.

Jeepers Creepers has a good monster and that's it. I'm not a fan of pedophilia.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:01 pm 
 

^ I must have blocked out that about Jeepers Creepers and pedophilia - I sort of remember what you mean, but not exactly...
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rexxz
Where's your band?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:05 pm 
 

I think the director/creator was convicted of something?
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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:09 pm 
 

I appreciate Jeepers Creepers for being the most recent horror film to create a monster that's become something of A Thing. He's no Freddy or Michael or Jason or anything but he's at least a minor member of that hierarchy. Yeah yeah I know there have been tons of better movies with better monsters/killers since then but I certainly don't see The Babadook being spoken of as part of that family tree, ya know? I don't remember much about the movie itself but my memory tells me it was at least okay, but I never saw the second and I'm not exactly pumped for the news of the third one being in production.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:02 pm 
 

I think that's more because the movie isn't really about the titular monster. The focal point of all those other horror franchises you referred to is that ultimately, at the end of the day, the monster is the star of the show. In The Babadook, it's all about watching this woman fall deeper and deeper into insanity, and the monster is only really a small part of the issue when it comes to her and her son.
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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:55 pm 
 

Oh yeah for sure, and that's most of the reason why I (for the most part) liked The Babadook. I don't watch nearly as much horror as this forum at large seems to but I'm sure there have been more recent films that tried to create "the next Jason" or something and just failed horribly. Maybe Emp can chime in or something.
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~Guest 21181
The Great Fearmonger

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:21 pm 
 

I watched Al3n once years ago and haven't thought to touch it since. I watched Resurrection once to complete the cycle and felt no need to watch it again.


By contrast, I've seen the first two films probably 15 times total (easily 10 alone for the second film) and can't get tired of them. I think that tells you everything.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:55 am 
 

BastardHead wrote:
Oh yeah for sure, and that's most of the reason why I (for the most part) liked The Babadook. I don't watch nearly as much horror as this forum at large seems to but I'm sure there have been more recent films that tried to create "the next Jason" or something and just failed horribly. Maybe Emp can chime in or something.


Horror has just moved away from stuff like Jason and Freddy. I think it did quite a while ago, even around the time Jacob's Ladder came out, but now it's really just catching on. The closest thing was the SAW movies and those went super downhill after like a few movies. I think it's a very welcome change.
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chaossphere
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:44 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
I watched Al3n once years ago and haven't thought to touch it since. I watched Resurrection once to complete the cycle and felt no need to watch it again.


By contrast, I've seen the first two films probably 15 times total (easily 10 alone for the second film) and can't get tired of them. I think that tells you everything.


The assembly cut of Alien3 is far more enjoyable than the theatrical.. it actually makes an effort to develop the characters and reintegrates an entire story element which left behind gaping plot holes when it was removed. It's nowhere near perfect, and the special effects are still ropey as hell, but it's a far closer film to what Fincher intended before the studio butchered it.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:46 pm 
 

Part of the problem with slasher horror is that they just haven't been able to match Jason and Freddy (and to a lesser extent, Pinhead, Candyman, Chucky, etc.) in terms of charisma. It's similar to how 80s-style action movies just can't really get made anymore - they don't have Bruce Wilis, Arnie, Stallone, Gibson, etc. Even great modern action movies like Dredd or Fury Road aren't good for the same reasons action movies were great in the 80s.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:52 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Part of the problem with slasher horror is that they just haven't been able to match Jason and Freddy (and to a lesser extent, Pinhead, Candyman, Chucky, etc.) in terms of charisma. It's similar to how 80s-style action movies just can't really get made anymore - they don't have Bruce Wilis, Arnie, Stallone, Gibson, etc. Even great modern action movies like Dredd or Fury Road aren't good for the same reasons action movies were great in the 80s.


Yeah, this is exactly it... Freddy and Jason were products of their time. I think it'd be kinda cool to get a whole new horror villain who could have his own series like that, like with real quality that we have these days in horror. But it seems like people who make these slasher movies are often bare-minimum quality and don't give much of a shit at all.
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chaossphere
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:00 pm 
 

Most modern horror can be summed up in this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTUyJMAgXxM
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:01 pm 
 

I just can't believe a film called "The Bye Bye Man" got greenlit. That's the kind of lazy title a reasonable CEO would fire someone for suggesting.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:02 pm 
 

It was an amazingly bad movie. As you can see in my newest review. Was something to marvel at.
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Turd Blaster
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:20 pm 
 

Just saw Split. Actually a really good movie. James McAvoy does very well for playing what is essentially multiple characters.
Obviously, this is an M Night Shyamalamadingdong movie, so there's a twist. If you're a big movie buff and you've kept up with his career, you're gonna love this shit. Buuuuuuuttttttt...I hadn't, so it went straight over my (and basically everyone in the theaters) head. Once I did some research, it made way more sense and I really got the whole thing. Regardless of if you've kept up with his career, I recommend this one 100%.
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MikeyC
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:36 pm 
 

^ I want to see Split but M. Night's involvement makes me not want to go within 100 metres of the damn thing. He has good movie ideas but executes them really poorly. Your description makes me more intrigued than I'm wanting to admit.
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aaronmb666
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:10 am 
 

Turd Blaster wrote:
Just saw Split. Actually a really good movie. James McAvoy does very well for playing what is essentially multiple characters.
Obviously, this is an M Night Shyamalamadingdong movie, so there's a twist. If you're a big movie buff and you've kept up with his career, you're gonna love this shit. Buuuuuuuttttttt...I hadn't, so it went straight over my (and basically everyone in the theaters) head. Once I did some research, it made way more sense and I really got the whole thing. Regardless of if you've kept up with his career, I recommend this one 100%.


I havent liked any of his movies except for Sixth Sense. After reading a post on FB, saying "Split was amazing. The ending was BRILLIANT", I decided to read what it was....I kind of chuckled.

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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:49 am 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Part of the problem with slasher horror is that they just haven't been able to match Jason and Freddy (and to a lesser extent, Pinhead, Candyman, Chucky, etc.) in terms of charisma. It's similar to how 80s-style action movies just can't really get made anymore - they don't have Bruce Wilis, Arnie, Stallone, Gibson, etc. Even great modern action movies like Dredd or Fury Road aren't good for the same reasons action movies were great in the 80s.


Yeah, I think it's a shame that there's not really a current generation of action movie stars to speak of. The first ones to pop into most people's heads (Jason Statham) are already pretty damn old, and other possible candidates (like Tom Hardy) seem too concerned with only making serious business art movies rather than genre-standard action movie stuff. Honestly the only person I can even think of who I'd say for sure fits the mold of being a modern action movie star is Chris Hemsworth, and his action movie output is getting totally monopolized by being Thor.
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volutetheswarth
Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:35 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I think it'd be kinda cool to get a whole new horror villain who could have his own series like that, like with real quality that we have these days in horror.
[/quote]Well that was essentially what The Collector was going to be, but they blew that with a stupid as fuck sequel. Friday The 13th and A Nightmare On Elm St were hardly quality franchises sans a couple movies in either, I think the difference is back then people just dealt with the shit sequels and watched 'em because no internet. The steam of the hit movies made people stick with franchise names/actors/directors. You had to sift through the bad to get to the good ones and there was hardly any indicator besides your own viewing experience or a friend's. Now if the sequel is shit the studios run, until a reboot, or reimagining, or re-re-re-re, several years down the track (if at all). People were more likely to take financial risk back in the day and that's why you got 10 sequels of whatever. That only now happens if it's low budget/POV crap. Quick, cheap and guaranteed their money back + potential profit.

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volutetheswarth
Our Lady of Perpetual Butthurt

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:11 am 
 

aaronmb666 wrote:
I havent liked any of his movies except for Sixth Sense. After reading a post on FB, saying "Split was amazing. The ending was BRILLIANT", I decided to read what it was....I kind of chuckled.
Read the twist and my reaction was: :ugh:
I honestly think M. Night is severely overrated like Stephen King as an author. HE has one particular draw, one distinct trait that he does time and time again, despite how unbelievable/absurd the dialogue may be, over-inflated-ego seeping out in style or poor editing, that the masses seem to gobble up like the director were a profound master. And after a string of bad movies, it's now like some glorious cotton candy where his fans can go "YA SEE, TOLD U HE WAZ GUD" (phew, now I don't have to defend an objectionable opinion).

I'm sure Split isn't bad and it might be one of his better movies, but I wish people would calm the fuck down and not hype it up like some saving grave/second coming of Christ. IMO a movie hinged on it's reveal/twist is not a very good movie nor a very rewatchable one at that. Each subsequent watch the shock and awe will lessen until it's just a vapid display of pictures you'd wish had a deeper/layered meaning.

In other news, these text-in-front-of-photo-portraits posters need to die.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:11 am 
 

volutetheswarth wrote:
Well that was essentially what The Collector was going to be, but they blew that with a stupid as fuck sequel. Friday The 13th and A Nightmare On Elm St were hardly quality franchises sans a couple movies in either, I think the difference is back then people just dealt with the shit sequels and watched 'em because no internet. The steam of the hit movies made people stick with franchise names/actors/directors. You had to sift through the bad to get to the good ones and there was hardly any indicator besides your own viewing experience or a friend's. Now if the sequel is shit the studios run, until a reboot, or reimagining, or re-re-re-re, several years down the track (if at all). People were more likely to take financial risk back in the day and that's why you got 10 sequels of whatever. That only now happens if it's low budget/POV crap. Quick, cheap and guaranteed their money back + potential profit.


You're right, but I'd take most of the bad Freddy and Jason movies over many of the attempts that came out in the 2000s - I'm including The Collector in that; I think it's utter trash. Maybe more polished and well-directed than some, but I hated everything about the story, etc. Freddy and Jason were always low-balling it, but only rarely were ever actually excruciatingly bad.
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Subrick
Metal Strongman

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:23 pm 
 

In the whole NoES and Friday the 13th franchises altogether (a combined 20 movies, including the remakes), there are only three genuinely awful movies, those being the Nightmare remake, Friday Part 5, and Friday Part 8. I haven't seen Freddy's Dead in over a decade, and I don't remember having much of an opinion on it at the time I saw it, so I can't really say if that is a piece of shit too.

I keep thinking about Halloween in relation to NoES and Friday the 13th. While the latter two had no one movie that was as excellent as the first Halloween, the overall movie series' themselves were WAY more consistently good than anything that came after the first Halloween. Halloween after 1978 was regularly bottom of the bargain barrel garbage cinema. The only real reasons why Michael Myers is even in the same conversation as Freddy or Jason as it pertains to slasher icons is because, 1. Halloween came first, and 2. The original Halloween is one of the best horror movies ever made. If it weren't for how excellent the first Halloween was, and how it influenced every slasher movie that came after it, you'd never hear Michael Myers mentioned anymore ever. Even the remake series was inferior to the NoES and Friday remakes, and the NoES remake was absolute hot trash.
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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:49 pm 
 

Friday part 8 is good-bad though.



He also very clearly calls Jason "motherfuck", not "motherfucker", for some fucking reason.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 11421
Location: Tyrn Gorthad
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:25 pm 
 

Just watched the "Black and Chrome" version of Fury Road. Mehhhh. Some shots did look really nice in black and white, and there were a few times where the textures had higher contrast in this edition and therefore more detail than the color version, but overall I definitely prefer the hypersaturated theatrical version. Those bright yellows and blue sky are just too damn beautiful, and the sparse use of other colors (red blood, green plants at the Citadel) really added a lot to the movie that was just lost in black and white. I mean, it's still a fantastic movie, but this version is just not quite as good, whatever George Miller says about it.
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