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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:41 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
One word, PhilosophicalFrog: Stander. One of the greatest docudramas ever.

I watched this today and indeed, great stuff.
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failsafeman
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:28 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
But the original one had the cool Lovecraftian slant to it where you get hints of these huge mountainous creatures stomping around in the Mist. And the desolated atmosphere was great...I dunno, been quite a few years since I read that story too.

Well, they show huge mountainous creatures stomping around in the mist in the movie too.
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iAm
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Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:18 am
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Location: West of the Duwamish due South of the Sound
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:45 pm 
 

Neato. The new Star Trek movie is called "into Darkness," which also happens to be the debut and final album from one of my favourite bands.

Also, I'm getting into The Hobbit for free cause I gots mad skillz. Not on premier night, but still.
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Poisonfume
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:26 pm
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Location: Greece
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:54 pm 
 

The hype for The Hobbit has worn off for me, I think I'm more excited for Django Unchained at this point.
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Calusari
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:36 am
Posts: 707
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:05 am 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
Watched Nosferatu. My experience with old ass black and white silent films is pretty limited (in the last 6 years or so I've only seen the Artist, and that doesn't count.) I wasn't expecting it to look so strange. It's not the really crisp black and white of stuff like The Twilight Zone, that's for sure. It's the visual equivalent of raw black metal. I wouldn't say I really enjoyed this, as my ADD was kicking in pretty severely with nothing to latch on to except imagery and the occasional moment of brilliant music (most of it is pretty dull.) But I will mention that the guy who played the vampire actually looked creepy as hell, and when he was actually on screen the movie was enjoyable. What with the unforgettable image of his shadow on the wall, and his strange and awkward gait.


One of my favourite films of all time... The aptly-named Max Schreck's Nosferatu is one of the few horror characters who genuinely scares me at some deep level (possibly because my mother watched this as a child and I grew up with her telling me how terrifying it is); truly, truly excellent.

Has anyone else seen and loved Shadow of the Vampire, about Murnau's making of the film? Dafoe's take on Schreck is oddly compelling, in my view.

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Thiestru
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:18 am
Posts: 1109
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:15 pm 
 

Yep, Shadow of the Vampire was very good. Easily one of the best modern vampire movies, if you ask me. Concerning Max Schreck, apparently he was a pretty strange guy in real life. According to someone he knew him, he basically lived in his own world and spent lots of time 'walking in dark forests'. Black metal before there was black metal!

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Razakel
Nekroprince

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
Posts: 4859
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:44 pm 
 

The remake of The Mist sucked ass, and is basically unintentional comedy. I remember laughing out loud when I saw the bug-monster-creature things with huge bugged out eyes, what the hell? Also, I couldn't believe how heavy-handed the whole religious slant was. Just completely dumb. And yeah, the ending was bad. The whole thing was bad.

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Under_Starmere
Abhorrent Fish-Man

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
Posts: 4198
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:00 pm 
 

Just watched Prometheus for the first time last night. The visuals/production design as well as my general curiosity kept me going (particularly seeing as Alien is one of my favorite films of all time), but in terms of plot it was pretty retarded. A lot of wasted potential there. Far too many plot holes + shit that seemed to be in there purely just as meaningless filler. Lazy writing. Heavy (read: painfully spelled-out) metaphors with no substantial backup, some mediocre acting, a few fucking laughable lines ("...I guess that's part of why I'm a human....and you're a robot..."). Ah, but what could we expect, really? At least it was real pretty...? All the alien artwork/architecture was kickass.
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Necroticism174
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:41 pm 
 

The Man Who Wasn't There: Haven't seen a Coen bros film in a while and damn, have they ever made a bad film? This was pitch perfect for the aesthetic and mood they were going for. Thornton was great in another serious role (first Slingblade and now this. I may have to start respecting him,) saying very little in a deep grumbling voice. Neo noire awesomeness. The twists come very naturally, it's quite a meticulously constructed movie. The black and white looks gorgeous, and there's that dark sense of humour that the Coens can wrench out of even the darkest of premises. There's two scenes in the movie that exhibit their trademark trolling, but mostly it's a more cold and serious meditation on aimlessness in a small town.
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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:46 pm 
 

Calusari wrote:
Necroticism174 wrote:
Watched Nosferatu. My experience with old ass black and white silent films is pretty limited (in the last 6 years or so I've only seen the Artist, and that doesn't count.) I wasn't expecting it to look so strange. It's not the really crisp black and white of stuff like The Twilight Zone, that's for sure. It's the visual equivalent of raw black metal. I wouldn't say I really enjoyed this, as my ADD was kicking in pretty severely with nothing to latch on to except imagery and the occasional moment of brilliant music (most of it is pretty dull.) But I will mention that the guy who played the vampire actually looked creepy as hell, and when he was actually on screen the movie was enjoyable. What with the unforgettable image of his shadow on the wall, and his strange and awkward gait.

One of my favourite films of all time... The aptly-named Max Schreck's Nosferatu is one of the few horror characters who genuinely scares me at some deep level (possibly because my mother watched this as a child and I grew up with her telling me how terrifying it is); truly, truly excellent.

I actually prefer Klaus Kinski's Nosferatu - obviously he's going for a significantly different slant on the character, but I find him more compelling.
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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4242
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:35 pm 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
Just watched Prometheus for the first time last night. The visuals/production design as well as my general curiosity kept me going (particularly seeing as Alien is one of my favorite films of all time), but in terms of plot it was pretty retarded. A lot of wasted potential there. Far too many plot holes + shit that seemed to be in there purely just as meaningless filler. Lazy writing. Heavy (read: painfully spelled-out) metaphors with no substantial backup, some mediocre acting, a few fucking laughable lines ("...I guess that's part of why I'm a human....and you're a robot..."). Ah, but what could we expect, really? At least it was real pretty...? All the alien artwork/architecture was kickass.


Truth.

I really couldn't help but like it still. Probably the best production and effects ever, with a B grade script. Fassbender is great too.

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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4242
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:41 pm 
 

The Dark Knight Rises: Won't go into this much as the film has already been discussed for 30 pages. A lot of things annoyed me about this sequel. The worst of the trilogy. I really liked Bane. Still a flawed Nolan film is decent overall. Batman Begins remains my favourite. 3 out of 5.

Shame: After Hunger i knew this would be amazing. Loved it. Fassbender was pitch perfect and McQueen has a big future in films i hope. Great soundtrack too. 4.5 out of 5.

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Calusari
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:36 am
Posts: 707
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:58 pm 
 

Thiestru wrote:
Yep, Shadow of the Vampire was very good. Easily one of the best modern vampire movies, if you ask me. Concerning Max Schreck, apparently he was a pretty strange guy in real life. According to someone he knew him, he basically lived in his own world and spent lots of time 'walking in dark forests'. Black metal before there was black metal!

Yeah, I'd heard this, too; not sure, of course, how much of it is an urban legend, but rumours abound that he was an odd one.

failsafeman wrote:
I actually prefer Klaus Kinski's Nosferatu - obviously he's going for a significantly different slant on the character, but I find him more compelling.

He's certainly more powerful, I think, purely in terms of what the vampire can do - in a way, Orlok is almost pathetic at times, in this horrifying vermin-like way, whereas Kinski's Dracula seems like a more forceful villain; to me, that actually makes Schreck's character more monstrous - he really gets under my skin and seems even less human. Just my take, though. I do have to say that I prefer the ending of Kinski's version; it's an interesting route that's not often taken by adaptations of the Dracula narrative.

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DeathRiderDoom
Pro Sports Warder

Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:17 pm
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Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:29 am 
 

I actually just watched Nosferatu das Phantom der Nacht the other night - with a friend over form Germany, no less. I loved Kinski as Dracula, and just really loved the whole "European" flavour of the film - the scenery, presentation, music, and story just had a thick European quality to them. I really loved the film. I wish i had the Herzog filmography. Only have a handful of his films.
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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:03 am 
 

Calusari wrote:
failsafeman wrote:
I actually prefer Klaus Kinski's Nosferatu - obviously he's going for a significantly different slant on the character, but I find him more compelling.

He's certainly more powerful, I think, purely in terms of what the vampire can do - in a way, Orlok is almost pathetic at times, in this horrifying vermin-like way, whereas Kinski's Dracula seems like a more forceful villain; to me, that actually makes Schreck's character more monstrous - he really gets under my skin and seems even less human. Just my take, though. I do have to say that I prefer the ending of Kinski's version; it's an interesting route that's not often taken by adaptations of the Dracula narrative.

Hah, I actually made those exact same comments about Klaus Kinski's performance earlier in the thread - sort of pathetic and verminous at the same time as threatening and powerful. I agree that Max Schreck is scarier, but really Klaus Kinski's character has way more depth - what I like about it is it makes vampirism seem way less desirable and makes Dracula actually seem like he's damned despite all his power, rather than a vampire being this awesome beautiful superpowered immortal with only the barest lipservice given to any downsides, as is all too frequent in fiction. It actually makes becoming a vampire seem like a genuinely bad thing - yeah you're a superpowered immortal, but you're a hideous rat person who is a slave to this vile urge to drink blood (portrayed in the movie as seriously creepy parasitic thing with sexually perverse overtones, rather than like a sexy, sensual neck-kiss, as is common), while still retaining your human emotional needs - except good luck getting someone to love you when you're an ugly fucker who can't help but drink their blood, haha.

Not to dump on Max Schreck - he has a definite aura about him, helped by the obscuring nature of the silent film, where you could almost believe he's really like that. But just from a dramatic standpoint there's not much to the character, which is also the case in the original Bram Stoker novel. The original Dracula was mostly a symbol of a decadent, parasitic aristocracy/nobility, rather than a serious dramatic character.
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Calusari
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:36 am
Posts: 707
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:08 am 
 

Haha, I didn't see those comments about Kinski. I certainly agree that Kinski and Herzog flesh out the character more than, either, the novel or Murnau's film; in my view, though, while that's an improvement on the dramatic potential of the book, it makes him less creepy to me, as I find things whose internal states I can imagine or attempt to understand less terrifying than things that look humanoid but seem to lack any resemblance to human mentalities. Orlok is an utterly 'other' creature, something with a familiar shape but with a mind that is clearly so different, ancient and warped that it seems there is no way of really communicating with it or understanding it; he's a blank slate in the way that something completely alien would be. That's just my take, of course. I've said it before, but I always find it very interesting to see how differently people react to films.

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TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:18 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:28 am 
 

Kinski's performance, Ganz's performance, the astounding photography, and Popol Vuh's score all make that film a damned masterpiece.

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volutetheswarth
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 1229
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:53 pm 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
Well I got around to seeing Skyfall. It's pretty much only good for the intro sequence, which is cool as, then a pretty good start until you actually meet the main villain, after that it gets stupid as hell. You've got a Dark Knight level clusterfuck of "That was all a plan!" bullshit writing, to the point of Silver planning to drop a fucking train on his pursuer at a specific time and a specific, completely out of the way location using a bomb he planted months beforehand. Then you've got the new Q, who is one of the worst character's ever created, he's young, he's hip and he can hack magic, the hacking on here is so bad it seriously shows hacking as a goddamn GUI video game, like that 80's movie. Then you've got the dumbassed conclusion, where the bad guy just goes weird as hell, who despite always wanting to kill M, suddenly has to have some kind of murder suicide gesture despite trying to shoot her right in face 24 hours before, and damn how stupid do the heroes have to be to walk using torches while being within viewing range of the building the bad guys are actively shooting at after escaping the scene safely through a hidden tunnel the bad guys don't even know exists, and just blew up the only entrance too, so they would NEVER know they used it. In fact the whole genesis of the film suddenly sucking is triggered by Bond getting himself captured for no reason at all (and getting his current vagina deadened the process), after he'd snuck onto a boat without detection, and was on his way to the bad guys island where he could have gone completely secretly and not gotten captured as his first plan.

I felt the intro scene was rather average, there was nothing that wowed me. Maybe because I knew how it would unfold because of the trailer. I felt the intentional crashing of the motorcycle was dumb, how he got into that excavator without trying to protect himself, the back and forth between M and that new character got on my nerves. It could have been done better. Yeah, the new Q was goofy but thankfully didn't go full Richard Ayoade, as I expected. I'm gonna go ahead and say there were far to many witty replies and comebacks here, even for a bond film. I had some chuckle head behind me laughing at each and every one for the entire film so halfway through I was done. The similarities to The Dark Knight were present in the middle but not nearly as smart, I got a sense that it may pick up at that point but the third act was predictably dull. That train dropping was far fetched but almost everything up to that point was unbelievable, so much so that I didn't feel like Bond was in any danger. It was your standard high-tec movie hacking affair, how Bond managed to solve it was the part that halted me. It was enjoyable despite the very flimsy plot or lack there of, a weak conclusion and a villain who had potential but resorted to what's been done before. I rate it clearly overrated but it was better than Quantum of Solace. Casino Royale is still my favourite of the modern Bond films, which is a shame because I felt the series was rejuvenated then and ready for something more smart and compelling.

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failsafeman
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:53 am 
 

Calusari wrote:
Haha, I didn't see those comments about Kinski. I certainly agree that Kinski and Herzog flesh out the character more than, either, the novel or Murnau's film; in my view, though, while that's an improvement on the dramatic potential of the book, it makes him less creepy to me, as I find things whose internal states I can imagine or attempt to understand less terrifying than things that look humanoid but seem to lack any resemblance to human mentalities. Orlok is an utterly 'other' creature, something with a familiar shape but with a mind that is clearly so different, ancient and warped that it seems there is no way of really communicating with it or understanding it; he's a blank slate in the way that something completely alien would be. That's just my take, of course. I've said it before, but I always find it very interesting to see how differently people react to films.

Well, yes, the creepiness of the Klaus Kinski character comes more from the wretched fate he suffers rather than from mysteriousness or inscrutability - which is why it makes so much sense that in Phantom der Nacht, Harker himself becomes a vampire. It has a much greater impact than just the cliche horror movie twist ending, where the beastie who was thought to be dead escapes to kill again, because we know that, with Lucy dead, Harker is destined for that same wretchedness that Dracula suffered through.

Not that it's up against terribly strong competition, but Nosferatu: Phantom der Nacht is definitely my favorite vampire movie.
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Calusari
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:36 am
Posts: 707
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:29 am 
 

As I mentioned above, the ending of the Kinski film is one aspect that I definitely prefer to Murnau's take; it's a far more interesting conclusion, and I am surprised that so few adaptations of the Dracula narrative explore this option. (Hope that didn't spoil the ending for anyone who hasn't seen the Kinski/Herzog film, by the way :-P ).

Edit: somewhat amusingly serendipitous coincidence; upon going back to the other tab I had open, the first thing that appears in my 'newsfeed' is a photo of Kinski. Hehe.

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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:32 am 
 

Well fuck you! I was planning on watching it you horrible person that can't understand the function of spoiler tags :p I've seen two Herzog movies, both of which were super shitty. But seeing all the positive reactions to this film in here, I should really watch it.
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Calusari
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:36 am
Posts: 707
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:47 am 
 

Honestly, I generally prefer his documentaries; Into the Abyss and Encounters at the End of the World floored me (that sad little (seemingly) suicidal penguin still haunts me).

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Acrobat
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:06 am 
 

TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah wrote:
Kinski's performance, Ganz's performance, the astounding photography, and Popol Vuh's score all make that film a damned masterpiece.


As great as the film is, and let's face it, it's near perfect... the soundtrack is even better! Definitely worth getting on its own.
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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:35 pm 
 

Of the few Herzog movies i've seen thus far, Aguirre: Wrath of God was the best. Very haunting little film that just flies by for me. The atmosphere is so thick and dangerous, and I felt like I was right there on the river with those damned fool men. Klaus Kinski's madness is pretty terrifying.
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inhumanist
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:44 pm 
 

Have you watched this video from film set of Fitzcarraldo?

It is said that the indigenous people who participated in the film offered to the crew to kill Kinski.

And yes, Aguirre was monumental.
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TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:16 pm 
 

ANationalAcrobat wrote:
TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah wrote:
Kinski's performance, Ganz's performance, the astounding photography, and Popol Vuh's score all make that film a damned masterpiece.


As great as the film is, and let's face it, it's near perfect... the soundtrack is even better! Definitely worth getting on its own.


For sure. I am thinking about picking up the box set PV put out of all their Herzog soundtracks. It's pricey, but damn is there some good music in there.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:28 pm 
 

Calusari wrote:
Honestly, I generally prefer his documentaries; Into the Abyss and Encounters at the End of the World floored me (that sad little (seemingly) suicidal penguin still haunts me).

Have you seen Bad Lieutenant Port of Call: New Orleans? Amazing movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG_VaTDn9Uk
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:48 pm 
 

That movie was pure trolling dude :lol:
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:55 pm 
 

Trolling? I wouldn't say so. Critics loved it, more than the original in fact. I mean, Cage's performance was obviously extreme, but it was understandable considering the character he was portraying - a stressed-out corrupt drug addict cop who gets high on whatever's available. Honestly the things he does are similar to what Harvey Keitel does in the original Bad Lieutenant, except in that movie it's supposed to be horrifying, whereas in this one it's supposed to be horrifying and funny.
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:21 pm 
 

Oh, it WAS enjoyable, don't get me wrong. But it was impossible to take any of it seriously at all, it's just too far out and unbeliavable. It's just Nic Cage going around smoking crack, saying random gibberish, somehow getting away with most of it, and Eva Mendez sucking really hard at acting and as a character (I've spoken about this movie in this thread a while back in more detail.) Then there's fat Val Kilmer who's randomly intense and homicidal for no reason. Then it just sort of ends with Cage asking "I wonder if fish dream." I mean sure, you could argue that it had a point and it was dramatic, but it's hard for me to see it as anything but brilliant, next level trolling. Just like another Herzog movie I saw (my son, my son, what have ye done. Which was even MORE trolly but wasn't actually good.)
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:48 pm 
 

Well I have to disagree, I mean it's far out and obviously certain plot points hinge on coincidence (both in Cage's favor and not), but I think it was pretty clear that Cage gets away with the shit he gets away with because most of the police force is corrupt as shit. Remember how surprised he was at that dickhead highway patrol officer who wouldn't help him out? And then how someone helped him out anyway? And how Val Kilmer turned out to be EVEN MORE corrupt? Really that's what I thought elevated the movie to being genuinely good as serious film; sure Cage's character does all this batshit stuff, but at the end of the day he really does have a moral compass and he does actually care about bringing the guy who murdered the African family to justice, even though pretty much nobody else in the whole movie seems to. I'd say as a character that makes him more interesting than Harvey Keitel's bad lieutenant, who is basically just a huge piece of shit and then has a Catholic crisis and makes a self-sacrificial and utterly misguided attempt at redemption right at the end.
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:54 pm 
 

Yeah that is true, no one in the police force really gave two shits about his behavior as he pretty much left a super obvious trail of crime. By the end of the movie, his character is right back where he started. I can't comment on the Keitel version, as I wasn't interested in seeing and, as I uderstand it, the films are only tenuously linked story wise.
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volutetheswarth
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:40 pm 
 

I've seen the Harvey Keitel version, I own it, actually. It's truly an unpleasant watching experience, I found it a struggle to get through as I really hated Keitel's character. You don't gain anything thing from watching it but it has it's place as a portrait of a scumbag, and a pessimistic view of life, unlike Made in Britain which outright pissed me off.

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failsafeman
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:48 pm 
 

I thought the original Bad Lieutenant was decent, Harvey Keitel's acting was fantastic, but it could have been a lot better with a few changes:
Spoiler: show
first, the whole breakdown scene with him sobbing and braying for like 5 solid minutes was just wayyyy too much. Second, him giving the rapists the money and telling them to GTFO was just dumb. I get that it was a sort of Catholic forgiveness plus self-sacrifice, but these weren't thieves or drug dealers or petty criminals who just made mistakes; they were violent rapists who never even seemed particularly sorry for what they'd done. He should have given the money to someone much more deserving, or at least the rapists should have been written as people more worth an attempt at redemption. It just left me scratching my head, and with a bad taste in my mouth.
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darkeningday
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:41 pm 
 

Just throwing in that while I love both versions of Bad Lieutenant, My Son My Son was fucking unbearable. Herzog is a bit like Von Trier in that his films are either masterpieces or completely unwatchable.
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Necroticism174
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:08 pm 
 

Even if I was incredibly stoned, My Son My Son was just a turd. One of my friends had dropped acid without telling us before coming over to watch it and about half way through he turned to look at me and asked ''Are you fucking with me?''
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Calusari
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:36 am
Posts: 707
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:04 am 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Calusari wrote:
Honestly, I generally prefer his documentaries; Into the Abyss and Encounters at the End of the World floored me (that sad little (seemingly) suicidal penguin still haunts me).

Have you seen Bad Lieutenant Port of Call: New Orleans? Amazing movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG_VaTDn9Uk


No, I haven't seen it; the descriptions of it here so far have made me curious, so I'll check it out.

I'd have to agree with the other comments about Herzog so far - Aguirre and Fitzcarraldo are quite brilliant, while My Son, My Son... I couldn't get through it. I began fast-forwarding some scenes and then just gave up; I may give it another shot some day, but, eh, life's too short.

On the subject of Herzog's fictional cinema, though, I'd say that Woyzeck is among my favourites - another stunning Kinski performance; the way his visions are done, and the ending, are pretty damn incredible, and I find that the age of the film just adds to the distorted atmosphere.

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volutetheswarth
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 1229
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:16 am 
 

failsafeman wrote:
I thought the original Bad Lieutenant was decent, Harvey Keitel's acting was fantastic, but it could have been a lot better with a few changes:
Spoiler: show
first, the whole breakdown scene with him sobbing and braying for like 5 solid minutes was just wayyyy too much. Second, him giving the rapists the money and telling them to GTFO was just dumb. I get that it was a sort of Catholic forgiveness plus self-sacrifice, but these weren't thieves or drug dealers or petty criminals who just made mistakes; they were violent rapists who never even seemed particularly sorry for what they'd done. He should have given the money to someone much more deserving, or at least the rapists should have been written as people more worth an attempt at redemption. It just left me scratching my head, and with a bad taste in my mouth.
Spoiler: show
That breakdown scene was excruciating to watch for the length it went for, like the director left the camera on and it was cut down from 30 minutes. And yeah that last scene felt like a personal fuck you to the audience, for thinking this man could change and be of any worth. It's got the stamp of a pessimistic view of life, and just went you think differently it kicks you in the nuts. I felt I should have been cheering when he died at the end but I was indifferent.

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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:21 am 
 

volutetheswarth wrote:
failsafeman wrote:
I thought the original Bad Lieutenant was decent, Harvey Keitel's acting was fantastic, but it could have been a lot better with a few changes:
Spoiler: show
first, the whole breakdown scene with him sobbing and braying for like 5 solid minutes was just wayyyy too much. Second, him giving the rapists the money and telling them to GTFO was just dumb. I get that it was a sort of Catholic forgiveness plus self-sacrifice, but these weren't thieves or drug dealers or petty criminals who just made mistakes; they were violent rapists who never even seemed particularly sorry for what they'd done. He should have given the money to someone much more deserving, or at least the rapists should have been written as people more worth an attempt at redemption. It just left me scratching my head, and with a bad taste in my mouth.
Spoiler: show
That breakdown scene was excruciating to watch for the length it went for, like the director left the camera on and it was cut down from 30 minutes. And yeah that last scene felt like a personal fuck you to the audience, for thinking this man could change and be of any worth. It's got the stamp of a pessimistic view of life, and just went you think differently it kicks you in the nuts. I felt I should have been cheering when he died at the end but I was indifferent.

Spoiler: show
Well, his death is meant to be tragic, in that he had the money to pay off his bookies but gave it away, sacrificing himself to 'save' these other guys. But it just didn't work, because there was nothing indicating the guys were worth saving, and there didn't seem to be any serious motivation for Keitel's character to even try, especially at the cost of his own life. I mean maybe the point was that this was just a dumb, pointless gesture on his part in a vain attempt to try to redeem himself in the eyes of god, and maybe in his own eyes too? I don't know, I just don't think it worked. I thought the actual end seen where he just abruptly gets shot in a dirve-by was very good, though. Not drawn out for dramatic emphasis, just very realistic and quick and blunt.
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4204
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:06 am 
 

Calusari wrote:
On the subject of Herzog's fictional cinema, though, I'd say that Woyzeck is among my favourites - another stunning Kinski performance; the way his visions are done, and the ending, are pretty damn incredible, and I find that the age of the film just adds to the distorted atmosphere.

I watched that one in German class back in school and I think it is an excellent, and very faithful, adaption of the play (which naturally we had to read). The role is a perfect Kinski role of course. I can't imagine someone else playing it now.
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