The attempts of the western media to make these people look like violent madmen are frankly ridiculous.They even make it look like we are the victims in the war on terror.

"We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation of the Prophet's Night Travel Land (Palestine). And we believe the US is directly responsible for those who were killed in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. The mention of the US reminds us before everything else of those innocent children who were dismembered, their heads and arms cut off in the recent explosion that took place in Qana (in Lebanon). This US government abandoned even humanitarian feelings by these hideous crimes. It transgressed all bounds and behaved in a way not witnessed before by any power or any imperialist power in the world."

It sounds more like they are fighting imperialism than that they want to kill you for not being a muslim.

Muslim terrorism will stop when american terrorism does.

Given the recent events that have been occurring in your country, I am surprised to see someone from Holland defending Muslims. But then again, based on your comment, I'm inclined to believe quite a bit of the hysteria and negative hype surrounding Muslims in Europe is the result of media intervention. Although, I do still believe they are hated by the majority of people there.

Despite what you may think, America is not too far behind in terms of becoming a theocracy. And before you jump to conclusions about these people, you might want to observe how some of them live. Dubai being a prime example.

If you read my first post in this thread you´ll see that I think Islam has no place in europe, but that doesn´t mean that their struggle against the west is wrong.

And nothing really happened with islam in Holland apart from some politician finding out you can get a lot of votes by saying that islam is a retarded culture.

I agree. Every culture/religion/way of life has it's designated location in the world to be practiced.

There are many Christians and Jews living in this same kind of poverty, being persecuted and attacked by Muslims everyday. But do you see them commiting terror attacks on a daily basis?. Poverty is not the reason for terrorism, thats what the liberals want you to believe. It is the Ideology that fuels this frenzied celebrations of Jihad and the discrimination of other religious beliefs.

Islam advocates deception as a way of alluding the enemy from the truth and it is political correctness, that they are using to their advantage. terror attacks aren't just happening in america either, they happen in every country that isn't Islamic. they are using Americas occupation of Iraq as a scapegoat, to portray themselves as victims of americas cruel oppressors. When they themselves want to make oppression, a widley accepted universal system.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The media has done a good job of turning you into another fearmongered individual who believes Muslims are these evil parasites who want nothing more than to take over the world and plunge it into a primitive state.

Islam is no more violent than christianity or judaism.
Any group of people can only take a certain amount of injustice piled upon them before they fight back.



If we treat them with the respect they deserve they won´t hurt a fly.

Your hypothesis is far too vague: do you mean that the Islamic holy text is as violent as the Bible; that all three religions have been responsible for roughly analogous amounts of otherwise-unjustified violence through their histories and/or now; or that their theologies are all equally capable of being utilized for violence?



How much respect would you say they deserve? Also, considering how riled the entire US military-industrial complex is about Al Qaeda, I'd say that the former certainly has a very functional form of respect for their opponents.



Explain your reasoning please.

Christians from all over the country are pushing for a form of government that embraces Christian laws and ethics. Their beliefs are manifesting in other parts of the world...like how Evangelical Christians blindly support Israel simply because they believe it needs to be there in order for the resurrection of Christ to come about and that Jews and Christians are God's chosen people. Other things like the banning of stem cell research, abortion, gay marriage, etc. I'm being kinda vague here, but I just ate a big dinner and don't feel like typing much right now. Off topic, you once stated you live in California, no?

Fear is not respect.

The muslim world needs to be given space to make their own decisions and grow into this modern age.
Every interference from the west (Israel,Operation Ajax,iraq,afghanistan)
just creates more hostillity.
The only reason we even care about this area is oil and our goverments seem willing to do anything to obtain it.

The way to show respect would be is to leave them alone.
no wars , occupations , overthrowing elected leaders.
Just treat them like human beings really.

That is correct. I reside in San Francisco when I'm not attending college in Davis. Davis is a college town, so it's pretty progressive, and I'm sure you are familiar with San Francisco's legacy.

The reason I ask is because California (especially San Francisco) is one of the most liberal places in all of the country. Therefore, you may not be aware of the avid Christian movement that has a strong presence throughout the rest of the nation. San Francisco is a place known for hardcore liberals, feminists, etc. so it's not like it's something you would experience frequently as opposed to the areas of America with a more religious core. Another off topic question, what happened to your mod status?

That's true. I know it's way worse down south/southeast. However, any sorts of theocratic policies tend to be limited to funding of religious groups: certainly undesirable, but not particularly intrusive. I've never been a mod as far as I'm aware.

Yes, but a lot of these groups are always lobbying to have the laws changed. It's scary because these groups are always growing in numbers and are having an influence on more and more people. I mean, look at all the televangelists you see attempting to scam people out of their money with garbage products like "miracle water" and "healing" people with a simple pressing of the person's palm on the forehead of "the afflicted". Obviously America is not a theocracy, but unless some reform is brought forth, it will eventually gravitate in that direction.

Islam has been an integral part of Middle Eastern society since it's inception, so it wouldn't make much sense to banish it from their society as Islam as you see it now wasn't always the way it was. Like I stated before, Muslims were an advanced people who made contributions to science and medicine and were the exact opposite of how Christians were during the dark ages. They lived lavish and decadent lifestyles and were far from the primitive stereotype perceived by most. Islam has been experiencing a downward spiral into decay ever since the death of the prophet Muhammed paired with (in most recent generations) the inception of Israel and U.S. interjection of their affairs. Coupled with a history of dictator-like regimes slowly killing them from within, they have regressed into the semi-barbaric state that you witness nowadays. Obviously the problems in the Middle East are much more comprehensive than what I have just divulged, but it's 3:30 AM here and I don't feel like writing an essay at this hour.

Seriously? Not even a forum mod? I remember seeing your name in the list of mods that are listed beneath the titles of each forum.

For your information I dont watch a lot of TV and for a very long time I have respected Muslims. And if I am so brain washed by the media, why have you done nothing to back up your statements. Why is it only Muslims who commit acts of terror and not poverty stricken christians? Why is it the muslims who kill innocent nigerian christians, because of the Muhammad cartoons? And why is it that that negative views about Islam are always censored? Why was it the west that made use of oil in the first place and not Muslims? Why do Muslims threaten and attack people of all religions and cultural backgrounds? I would believe that Muslims were being victimised, if it wasn't for the Muslim clerics and immams themselves, threatening the whole world with Jihad. Not to mention the Iranian president who sounds like a new Hitler.

The only thing I fear my friend is ignorance.

I can safely say Americans are more "hated" (I think "annoyed "or "have negative feelings towards" would be better phrases) than Muslims in Europe. In fact, there's not many people hating Islam. Sure we all hate the fundamentalists, but the religion as a whole? That'd be racist, and people don't tend to be racist unless they're idiots. There is no "hysteria and negative hype surrounding Muslims" in Europe.

Where do you people get crazy ideas like this???

Its not technically racist to hate muslims because, in case you haven't noticed, their not a race. And it certainly isn't racist to hate there religion, because not all arabs are muslim. I know nice muslim's, but the ones who take their religion seriously, are usually the ones with fascist ideologies.