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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5344
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:00 am 
 

Well, this movie is finally out and it will create some uproar. It is unfair, unbalanced and of course from the eyes of a person who lives under a death threat. Yet he is not wrong in his claims and what danger goes out from the muslim world. To neglect it would perhaps be naive and would only undermine our western social integrity further. How muslims or the muslim world will respond to this movie, will be an interesting thing to see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_%28film%29

the movie has a length of 15 minutes.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103

The Wikipedia site gives some insights on the trouble created by this film before it was aired.
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MushroomStamp
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:07 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Helsinki, Finland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:35 am 
 

I watched it last night. It seemed as if the creator's sole intent was to cause an uproar, rather than initiate dialogue. There was very little speech (was there any dialogue at all?), and the imagery very much concentrated on showing dead bodies. I am doubtful as to whether any moderate Muslim can watch it without being pissed off, and the hardcore ones -- well, they already hate "us" Western people as if we're one hivemind.

For all intents and purposes, I prefer the documentary "What the West needs to know about Islam" -- it's still on video.google.com, I believe. There's less hysterical nonsense and more talk.
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Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:28 am 
 

MushroomStamp wrote:
For all intents and purposes, I prefer the documentary "What the West needs to know about Islam" -- it's still on video.google.com, I believe. There's less hysterical nonsense and more talk.


LINK, please? :)

I don't see how repeating things that have been done or said next to the Quranic verses that are used to justify them is anything other than a statement of fact. Do all Muslims believe these things? Do all Christians believe that Homosexuals should be executed?

This is as much a call for moderate Muslims to clean house as a "deliberate provocation." Is it provoocative? Obviously. But if moderate Muslims weren't so deafeningly silent on the subject of radical Islam, and would speak up and say something, Geert Wilders, bless his kafir heart, wouldn't have to say it FOR THEM.

Long live freedom of speech. Persons wishing to live under Islamic law should simply relocate to where it is practiced if it is so important to them. Wow. Now that's a radical, insulting concept.

Wake up, people. Salafism/Wahabism is TELLING YOU what it wants to do to you. Is it all Muslims? Of course not. But even if it's two percent, that's two hundred million people who want to see everyone who posts here dead.

On a lighter note, I had no idea that some Muslims believe in talking anti-Semitic rocks... who says they're crazy?

The inevitable response to the film (by people who of course will not have seen it) will no doubt produce tons of great footage for Fitna 2: The Fitna-ning.

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ikuturiso
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:49 pm
Posts: 239
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:49 am 
 

Svartalf wrote:
MushroomStamp wrote:
For all intents and purposes, I prefer the documentary "What the West needs to know about Islam" -- it's still on video.google.com, I believe. There's less hysterical nonsense and more talk.


LINK, please? :)


Here.

On Fitna - I thought it was extremely provocative and generalizing. I don't know how the muslim situation in the Netherlands is but I HIGHLY doubt that there are that many fanatic muslims secretly plotting the conquering of the country and all world. The movie presented all muslims as fanatic fundamentalists, which is completely false.

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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5344
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:39 am 
 

The film has been removed from liveleak due to its provocative content. Hypocrites.
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MushroomStamp
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:07 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Helsinki, Finland
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:23 am 
 

Heh, once again, Piratebay provides what common media doesn't.
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Cretinhopper
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:02 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:42 am 
 

Not much substance in it, but if it makes people interested in the subject it's all good.

Fuck islam.

http://thepiratebay.org/tor/4102738/

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tomcat_ha
Veteran

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 2799
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:48 am 
 

Wilders fucking failed this.

First he used the wrong picture for Mohammed B. The person in the pic is actually a rapper and he's gonna sue him.

He used one of those danish cartoons without settling for a copyright agreement. Now he's gonna sue him.

He put the wrong verse numbers.

Finally he edited parts of verses to make it like it is like that. Like that sura 8 verse 60.(it is actually verse 61)

Also there have been allot of protests against those radicals but they dont get shown in the media because it doesnt sell.

I wonder how many of you actually know stuff about the Islam you havent been fed to by the media.

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Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:52 am 
 

tomcat_ha wrote:
I wonder how many of you actually know stuff about the Islam you havent been fed to by the media.


I know stuff about Islam I was fed by majoring in Religion at one of the top Liberal Arts schools in the country, and taking almost of my courses in Islam. I'm married to a member of the most progressive minority sect of the religion. She feeds me, too.

Just sayin'.

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Ramowar
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:40 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:27 pm 
 

I may not know that much about Islam (according to your generalizations) but I believe death threats and sites having to take down videos sends a pretty clear message. Ultimately, I am not going to feel sorry over a religion being attacked. Especially one that is causing so much shit in the world.

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rexxz
Retired

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 8769
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:26 pm 
 

tomcat_ha wrote:
I wonder how many of you actually know stuff about the Islam you havent been fed to by the media.


Don't assume that everyone who criticizes the shitty religion is brainwashed by media and doesn't know anything about it.

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BlindTortureKill
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1219
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:04 pm 
 

Thank god for people like Wilders.

I'm not exactly a supporter of his, nor would I like to be in his shoes.
But am I glad theres something in the way of these immigrants taking over.

I'm from the Netherlands and I can confirm mosques, woman in Burqa's (or whatever you'd like to call those contraptions) popping up everywhere.

ONE THING THOUGH:
I am NOT intolerant to this religion in general, nor do I claim knowing anything about it.
I AM intolerent to these people enforcing their rules upon us.
If they don't like our rules, get the fuck out, it's our country.

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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
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Location: Seattle, United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:16 am 
 

BlindTortureKill wrote:
ONE THING THOUGH:
I am NOT intolerant to this religion in general, nor do I claim knowing anything about it.
I AM intolerent to these people enforcing their rules upon us.
If they don't like our rules, get the fuck out, it's our country.

Agreed. I understand that we leave our countries for several reasons, but coming to other countries and telling others what to do isn't gonna work out.

I don't think I'm gonna waste my time seeing this short film. It doesn't sound like it presents the right message whatsoever.
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DustyFox
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Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:27 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:24 am 
 

The video was good for a laff. As much as I dislike Islam, I can't take something that presents such a one-sided view seriously. It is really just recycling old footage and photos that have been presented a thousand times before without any new thought.

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rexxz
Retired

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 8769
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:44 am 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
BlindTortureKill wrote:
ONE THING THOUGH:
I am NOT intolerant to this religion in general, nor do I claim knowing anything about it.
I AM intolerent to these people enforcing their rules upon us.
If they don't like our rules, get the fuck out, it's our country.

Agreed. I understand that we leave our countries for several reasons, but coming to other countries and telling others what to do isn't gonna work out.

I don't think I'm gonna waste my time seeing this short film. It doesn't sound like it presents the right message whatsoever.


The film isn't as much of a "message" in its own right as it is a collection of different images and videos that represent the brutality and harshness of extremist islamsm. It's nothing new that we haven't seen or heard of.


I will say one thing though, if anything.

Quote:
This is as much a call for moderate Muslims to clean house as a "deliberate provocation." Is it provoocative? Obviously. But if moderate Muslims weren't so deafeningly silent on the subject of radical Islam, and would speak up and say something, Geert Wilders, bless his kafir heart, wouldn't have to say it FOR THEM.


This, is what I agree with. Disregarding anything else about this short film, if it can poke and prod and the vast majority of the moderate muslim community to fight against the extremism even more, than it is doing good I say. The effort to stop this craziness has to start at the roots, after all. No outside force is going to directly influence their ideals, but their own people perhaps can.

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tomcat_ha
Veteran

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 2799
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:51 am 
 

One can only give a good and proper judgement over Islam when you know its history and how the different sects emerged and how they developed.

You cant say that in the last 60 years there have been issues with Muslism so Islam is just a bad religion. The last 60 years are less then 5% of the total history of Islam.

I dont see whats wrong with mosques anyway. Burqa's ive only seen when arabian tourists came to the netherlands. No one i know wears it and im a muslim turk with a father which is a rather big figure in the turkish community in the netherlands.

I know most of you are people opposing all forms of religion but i think it is smarter to not bash a religion untill you've looked into it. Ofcourse as a muslim i will give a biased view but i know enough about myself to admit it.

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rexxz
Retired

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:59 am 
 

It's simply a reactionary response to a current issue. The "history" and whatnot of the religion is not really an issue when it comes to this sort of retaliation. Hell, a person can still know almost nothing about the religion and be able to put some facts together and be able to oppose it.

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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5344
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:34 am 
 

rexxz wrote:
Quote:
This is as much a call for moderate Muslims to clean house as a "deliberate provocation." Is it provoocative? Obviously. But if moderate Muslims weren't so deafeningly silent on the subject of radical Islam, and would speak up and say something, Geert Wilders, bless his kafir heart, wouldn't have to say it FOR THEM.


This, is what I agree with. Disregarding anything else about this short film, if it can poke and prod and the vast majority of the moderate muslim community to fight against the extremism even more, than it is doing good I say. The effort to stop this craziness has to start at the roots, after all. No outside force is going to directly influence their ideals, but their own people perhaps can.

The silence in the islamic communities in terms of the subliminal radical tendencies must be broken. If there is no longer this ignorance towards maltreatment of women and the indoctrination of the followers in the mosque just to name two aspects, then the whole community would be seen in a different light and the society, they live in, would have a different opinion of them.

Yet I doubt that the silence will be broken soon...
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jelle666
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Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:10 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:49 pm 
 

In some point Geert Wilders is right, there is treat drom radical muslims.
But this movie is so short sighted, it says that the islam IS the same as terrorism and isnt true. You'll get that everybody starts to hate muslims and thats isnt right.

Did you guys know the AEL(Arabic European Liga) made a counter movie?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9z7-PXnGqM

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BlindTortureKill
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:57 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:01 pm 
 

Oh and I should add not every muslim is the same,
Others really do their best to live by our countries rules and whether they manage to do it or not, those people should be welcomed.

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aaq
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:32 am
Posts: 113
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:14 pm 
 

The muslims in Holland should be deported back where they came from
before their disgusting religion has a chance to poison our society
in the way that judaism and christianity already have.

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Kicker_of_Elves
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:49 am
Posts: 30
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:26 pm 
 

Apparently Wilder's solution to the Islam problem is a "Leitkultur, a culture that draws on "Christian, Jewish, humanistic traditions". I'm not quite sure what that's supposed to mean, but it sounds pretty weak.

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Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:00 pm 
 

Kicker_of_Elves wrote:
Apparently Wilder's solution to the Islam problem is a "Leitkultur, a culture that draws on "Christian, Jewish, humanistic traditions". I'm not quite sure what that's supposed to mean, but it sounds pretty weak.


Granted, Wilders is a big ol' kook. I don't agree with everything or even most things he says, but he's a Dutchman, and he has every right to say what he wishes. I, as an American, support freedom of speech, the press, religion (as long as your religion doesn't habitually sanction murder of "infidels," "apostates," "heretics," "heathens," etc.), even gun ownership by responsible, non-felon adults. Partciularly when any or all of those rights are directed against vicious, murderous extremism.

I actually came to this thread to post about the fact that Wilders is often mis-characterized as a "far-right politician" in the American press. It gives people the wrong idea. Far-right for Dutch politics? Sure, but one has to remember that by the standards of Dutch politics, Barack Obama would probably be considered as some sort of Nazi... :lol:

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incarcerated_demon
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:21 pm
Posts: 195
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:17 pm 
 

Svartalf wrote:
Far-right for Dutch politics? Sure, but one has to remember that by the standards of Dutch politics, Barack Obama would probably be considered as some sort of Nazi... :lol:


How so? Are you referring to the liberalness of the Dutch, bless 'em? :D

The only place in Europe to get decent legal weed as far as I'm concerned.

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Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:40 pm 
 

incarcerated_demon wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Far-right for Dutch politics? Sure, but one has to remember that by the standards of Dutch politics, Barack Obama would probably be considered as some sort of Nazi... :lol:


How so? Are you referring to the liberalness of the Dutch, bless 'em? :D


Yes, that is what I was alluding to--even Pim Fortuyn, who was a previous "far-right" politician in the Netherlands, was really only interested in limiting immigration to prevent the erosion of Dutch Liberalism. He was also flamboyantly homosexual. When was the last time you heard of a prominent U.S. Republican politician who was (openly) gay?

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9710
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:20 pm 
 

It's a dishonest, alarmist film, poorly put together (anyone with no budget could have made it and put it on Youtube) of little worth beyond sheer propaganda. But the violent reactions from the extremist only help provide ammo for the viewpoint that Islam is full of violence, and just serve to prove Wilders' point. The film is easily refuted using arguments of logic and reason, but I barely see any Muslim do anything other than whine at its offensiveness at best, and call death threats on Wilders at worst.

I guess this just goes to show that Muslim extremist are among the dumbest people on Earth.

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Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:21 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
I guess this just goes to show that Muslim extremist are among the dumbest people on Earth.


Please see my previous comment about the talking anti-Semitic rocks alluded to in the film.... :lol:

Yeah, it's provocative. Yeah, it's one-sided. And yeah, it was a trap set by Wilders that will continue to catch morons for some time to come.

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DeathCroak
Professor R. H. Gumby

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:21 pm 
 

I thought Fitna was a very poorly thought out documentary, designed to shock and provoke. And I think this makes peoples ignorant opinion of Islam, as a peaceful and tolerant religion grow. I also think "What the West Need to Know About Islam" is a much better portrayal of Islam using historical evidence. Only an ignorant fool could say that, that is a propaganda film. And I think anyone who thinks Islam is compatable with western society should watch that documentary. I also don't know why it isn't being aired on TV it is not biggoted biased or provoking (whether muslims decide to react violently, is another story though.)

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Wra1th1s
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:04 am
Posts: 383
Location: Indonesia
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:49 am 
 

My government banned youtube and myspace for having it up. The worst thing is my country isn't even a Muslim country. (Alright we're 88% Muslim but does it say "Islamic Republic of Indonesia"?)

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DeathCroak
Professor R. H. Gumby

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:33 pm 
 

When Islam becomes powerful you are given two choices convert and except allah as your god, or have a second class status. In ancient times people like this were usually put into slavery, these were usually Jews and Christians.

Islam was spread by the sword, Indonesians probably didn't have choice but to accept Islam.

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Noobbot
Mors_Gloria + Thesaurus

Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:48 pm
Posts: 426
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:33 pm 
 

DeathCroak wrote:
When Islam becomes powerful you are given two choices convert and except allah as your god, or have a second class status. In ancient times people like this were usually put into slavery, these were usually Jews and Christians.

Islam was spread by the sword, Indonesians probably didn't have choice but to accept Islam.


This isn't completely true. In the middle ages, in places such as the Ottoman empire, non-Muslims were second-hand citizens, but only because they couldn't become involved in politics outside of their district, and a few other things. Mostly, they actually had the same rights as their Muslim counterparts. I had to be the devil's advocate there.

Obviously, though, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all versions and interpretations of the same poor logic and the same evil. It is best that the Abrahamic traditions are completely erased, and that the only records of them left are singular copies of their texts to show how irrational and erroneous the books are, and their histories to show the amount of turmoil caused directly or indirectly by those three cults.


Last edited by Noobbot on Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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firescarredmartyr
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Joined: Thu May 01, 2003 12:29 am
Posts: 175
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:45 pm 
 

Anyone have a link to this for those of us who don't do the Torrent thing?

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BlindTortureKill
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1219
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:56 pm 
 

Full version is on google video ATM, not sure about youtube.
http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid= ... ex=0&hl=nl

EDIT: it's on youtube too, in two parts.
The movie is called Fitna and this is the internet, finding it shouldn't be difficult, you lazy bastard. :p

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Wra1th1s
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:04 am
Posts: 383
Location: Indonesia
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:14 am 
 

DeathCroak wrote:
When Islam becomes powerful you are given two choices convert and except allah as your god, or have a second class status. In ancient times people like this were usually put into slavery, these were usually Jews and Christians.

Islam was spread by the sword, Indonesians probably didn't have choice but to accept Islam.


True enough (though the first Muslims in Indo were traders), but the founding fathers of Indonesia had no intention of having a state religion. In fact they wanted Indonesia to be a communist country, but decided against it when communism is pretty much atheistic (Indonesia is a host to so many religions: Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, animistic religions). My point is, the country I live in is supposedly a young democracy. We 'have' freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. yet the the religious citizens often think this country is a theocracy like Malaysia.

On a sidenote, the youtube ban has been lifted.
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Asarath
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:18 pm 
 

Stupid fucker. Really, I particularly like the bit where he says, 'The Quran is in contradiction with Dutch law'. That goes for basically every other Abrahamic religious book then.

aaq wrote:
The muslims in Holland should be deported back where they came from
before their disgusting religion has a chance to poison our society
in the way that judaism and christianity already have.


You do realise you sound like a religious extremist when you say that?

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DeathCroak
Professor R. H. Gumby

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:50 pm 
 

Theres overwhelming amounts of proof everywhere, that Islam isn't compatable with modern society. We shouldn't need a stupid film to tell us that. Unfortunatly though there are those who would rather be ignorant, daydreaming about the lie of multicultualism. The point is alien cultures need to intergrate into our society and not the other way around. And if there is something that explicitly conflicts with our laws or values, then it is not up to us to tolerate it. Islam imo is the only kind of culture, that has no place in any civilised country.

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aaq
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:32 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:21 pm 
 

Asarath wrote:
You do realise you sound like a religious extremist when you say that?

If you would listen to them you´d realise that the so-called islamic terrorists are actually saying very sensible things.
And that their extremism is mainly caused by western corruption.
So I guess I sound like one because I agree with their views (when you strip away the religious rhetoric) .

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Viral
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:04 am
Posts: 1917
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:25 pm 
 

DeathCroak wrote:
Theres overwhelming amounts of proof everywhere, that Islam isn't compatable with modern society. We shouldn't need a stupid film to tell us that. Unfortunatly though there are those who would rather be ignorant, daydreaming about the lie of multicultualism. The point is alien cultures need to intergrate into our society and not the other way around. And if there is something that explicitly conflicts with our laws or values, then it is not up to us to tolerate it. Islam imo is the only kind of culture, that has no place in any civilised country.

Back in the Middle Ages, Muslims were the opposite of what Christians were back in those days. They were an advanced people that contributed quite a bit to science and medicine. But just like everything, what was once good about it eventually dwindles due to corruption, war, tyranny, etc.
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DeathCroak
Professor R. H. Gumby

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:32 pm 
 

aaq wrote:
Asarath wrote:
You do realise you sound like a religious extremist when you say that?

If you would listen to them you´d realise that the so-called islamic terrorists are actually saying very sensible things.
And that their extremism is mainly caused by western corruption.
So I guess I sound like one because I agree with their views (when you strip away the religious rhetoric) .


:nono: I would laugh if your ignorance wasn't so tragic

http://youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

Does this sound sensible to you ?

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DeathCroak
Professor R. H. Gumby

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:41 pm 
 

Viral wrote:
DeathCroak wrote:
Theres overwhelming amounts of proof everywhere, that Islam isn't compatable with modern society. We shouldn't need a stupid film to tell us that. Unfortunatly though there are those who would rather be ignorant, daydreaming about the lie of multicultualism. The point is alien cultures need to intergrate into our society and not the other way around. And if there is something that explicitly conflicts with our laws or values, then it is not up to us to tolerate it. Islam imo is the only kind of culture, that has no place in any civilised country.

Back in the Middle Ages, Muslims were the opposite of what Christians were back in those days. They were an advanced people that contributed quite a bit to science and medicine. But just like everything, what was once good about it eventually dwindles due to corruption, war, tyranny, etc.


Its got nothing to do with corruption and war, it is the fact that Muslims believe the Quran is a perfect book and the literal word of god. Because of this they believe that the Quran is absolute and you can't go beyond it, this is why they refuse to advance. The bible on the other hand is inspired by god, therefore we have left some of the more outdated beliefs and this is why we have progressed so much.

I really wish america didn't go to war with Iraq, because the backlash is ignorance. The point is Muslims refuse to reform their beliefs and insist on following a book of barbarism.

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