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swineeyedlamb
Boiling in the Hourglass

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:49 pm
Posts: 650
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:13 am 
 

no post


Last edited by swineeyedlamb on Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Giftschlange_Krieg
Gomer Pyle

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:40 pm
Posts: 281
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:03 pm 
 

swineeyedlamb wrote:
Balth wrote:
swineeyedlamb wrote:
Balth wrote:
That is very immature thinking. Look at Iraq. It was smaller and much less powerful than China when it was invaded. Now take a look at how your great minds of the most advanced civilization are faring in Iraq. And Afghanistan.


Uh...he's talking about the US nuking China to oblivion, not pacifying it. From a purely pragmatic viewpoint, killing off the populations of Iraq and Afghanistan wouldn't be very difficult when compared to pacifying them.

In that case, he's a bigger monster than the government he's criticizing.


So what? The relevant fact is that wiping out China would have dire consequences to Western nations, since they're his primary concern.


Eh, perhaps I should have taken myself a little more seriously. I am just pissed off that the western world is so dependent upon china. There are plenty of more important things to be pissed off about. Frankly, if we fixed some of our bigger problems, such as the ridiculously shallow and shortsighted american lifestyle and the seeming flood of idiots in high places within our government, china would be a non-issue. And now I am just rambling...
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Andar
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:01 pm
Posts: 57
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:17 pm 
 

Giftschlange_Krieg wrote:
swineeyedlamb wrote:
Balth wrote:
swineeyedlamb wrote:
Balth wrote:
That is very immature thinking. Look at Iraq. It was smaller and much less powerful than China when it was invaded. Now take a look at how your great minds of the most advanced civilization are faring in Iraq. And Afghanistan.


Uh...he's talking about the US nuking China to oblivion, not pacifying it. From a purely pragmatic viewpoint, killing off the populations of Iraq and Afghanistan wouldn't be very difficult when compared to pacifying them.

In that case, he's a bigger monster than the government he's criticizing.


So what? The relevant fact is that wiping out China would have dire consequences to Western nations, since they're his primary concern.


Eh, perhaps I should have taken myself a little more seriously. I am just pissed off that the western world is so dependent upon china. There are plenty of more important things to be pissed off about. Frankly, if we fixed some of our bigger problems, such as the ridiculously shallow and shortsighted american lifestyle and the seeming flood of idiots in high places within our government, china would be a non-issue. And now I am just rambling...
How about we stop exporting all of our labor to other countries?

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saintinhell
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:19 am
Posts: 1426
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:30 pm 
 

swineeyedlamb wrote:
There has been a devoted Western cadre of Tibet supporters since at least the 1950's. The place has commanded far more attention than its population and available resources would imply.




Well, just because they are small and weak doesn't mean it's ok to trample on them, we are not living in the Medieval Age anymore. As for Olympics, I already said it's politicised, problem is, lot of barely out of teens enthusiastic sportspersons don't really know how much, or so I think.

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swineeyedlamb
Boiling in the Hourglass

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:49 pm
Posts: 650
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:36 pm 
 

no post


Last edited by swineeyedlamb on Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Andar
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:01 pm
Posts: 57
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:59 pm 
 

swineeyedlamb wrote:
saintinhell wrote:
swineeyedlamb wrote:
There has been a devoted Western cadre of Tibet supporters since at least the 1950's. The place has commanded far more attention than its population and available resources would imply.




Well, just because they are small and weak doesn't mean it's ok to trample on them, we are not living in the Medieval Age anymore. As for Olympics, I already said it's politicised, problem is, lot of barely out of teens enthusiastic sportspersons don't really know how much, or so I think.


That was meant as a value-neutral statement. Regardless to whether China has or has not the right to trample Tibet, world reaction has been far out of proportion with Tibet's strategic importance.
But you are applying a different kind of value, a more capitalistic/militaristic but not necessarily moralistic one.

Not that I'm saying Tibet deserves the lions share of attention when it comes to issues of totalitarian control, but it just seems like you're on a slippery slope.

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Eintagsfliege
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:25 am
Posts: 74
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:25 pm 
 

I think this whole issue completely misses the point. We're talking about an athletic event here and I know from personal experience who much work, effort and relinquishment being an athlet means. For most of them it will be the only opportunity in their lives to participate at the Olympic Games and we are talking about people here who can only practice their profession until they are about 35, who will later on not find any fulfillment with their jobs and who more often than not set aside their entire youth for sport. It's not only the medallists that miss chances of stardom and money but also people who never will make it top (I bet none of you could name an athlete that made it in fourth place at the last Olympics with looking one up), but nevertheless get this one chance to participate. The saddest thing about this is that the descision whether or not to participate is not done by the athletes (in any case most of them do not have the time nor the interest in worrying about politics) but by people who never knew what it means to be an athlete. It's sure way easier to call off the Olympic games than to take more suitable measures. Of course the people of Tibet try to get themselves noticed now, but without a substitute to the Olympics (like in 1980) the games have to take place in China.

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saintinhell
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:19 am
Posts: 1426
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:56 pm 
 

Andar wrote:
swineeyedlamb wrote:

That was meant as a value-neutral statement. Regardless to whether China has or has not the right to trample Tibet, world reaction has been far out of proportion with Tibet's strategic importance.
But you are applying a different kind of value, a more capitalistic/militaristic but not necessarily moralistic one.

Not that I'm saying Tibet deserves the lions share of attention when it comes to issues of totalitarian control, but it just seems like you're on a slippery slope.


My point exactly , Tibet have a cause to fight for and it is irrelevant whether they are geographically close to Russia or have massive oil reserves. From a purely militaristic standpoint, the Tibet issue would have been settled by brute force long ago. But an amicable solution is possible and ought to be achieved.

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TheClansman
IM AN INTARWEB TUFF GUY

Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 2:04 am
Posts: 6292
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:56 pm 
 

I'm greatly amused at how much the media plays up the idea of a boycott, while the reality of it is its not going to happen. The USA alone owes how much money to China? Its not diplomatically feasible to do more than maybe have various people skip the opening ceremony (whoop-dee-doo). That said, I wouldn't be shocked if a few athletes did decide to skip the games for various reasons (I recall a marathon runner saying he would not participate in a few events because of pollution concerns not so long ago).

What the IOC was thinking when they awarded China the games I will never know. Having them in a hellhole like Toronto would have been much better. ;)
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WilliamAcerfeltd
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:36 am
Posts: 194
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:22 pm 
 

Gorgo wrote:
Recentley, some countries are saying that they are thinking of boycotting the Olympic games. Should they be boycotted?

I personally think not. I agree that Tibet wants its independence from China, but the way they are doing it is wrong. Olympics should be a moment of sport, not politics.


They say they will boycott but they won't. People are just talk 90% of the time.

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TheGoatSlayer
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:36 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:47 pm 
 

As what has been said many times already, the boycotting and protesting of the Olympic games isn't going to do anything to help the situation. No progress will be made until the people in charge start doing something. However, seeing as the human race hasn't been able to move past the whole power corrupts phase, nothing will be done.

I will not be watching the Olympic games this year, but that's because they are summer games, and I don't like any of those sports. Winter is where it's at, for bobsled, and for watching Canada beat the USA again and again.
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EOS
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:25 pm
Posts: 56
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:03 am 
 

I'm way ahead of the pack. I've been boycotting the Olympics for years now.

Certain organization are going to China to spread pro-freedom, anti-CPC propaganda. I do believe that much better idea than trying to extinguish a torch.

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Balth
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:24 am
Posts: 558
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:53 am 
 

EOS wrote:
I'm way ahead of the pack. I've been boycotting the Olympics for years now.

Certain organization are going to China to spread pro-freedom, anti-CPC propaganda. I do believe that much better idea than trying to extinguish a torch.

Yeah, to be quite honest... as someone of Chinese background, I actually felt pretty hurt and humiliated when I saw the scenes in London and Paris. Yes, the pro-Tibet demonstrators have good intentions, but attacking the flame and booing such a symbolic and important event to the people of China really angered me. Especially if you consider the fact that attacking the flame will do absolutely nothing positive for the Tibet situation, the only thing that's going to come out of it is a lot of humiliation to the Chinese people, more so than to the government. I don't mind too much if pro-Tibet demonstrators protest in other ways, but doing it so aggressively during the Olympic torch relay crosses the line for me. To me, this isn't even about Tibet anymore; I see their actions as a degrading attack on the national pride of Chinese people, something that every Chinese should have every right to experience during such an important event for China. Instead, the first stages of this symbolic event have been ruined and our right to be proud taken away by Westerners who've gone too far in their originally good intentioned actions.
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The_Count
Village Idiot

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:04 pm
Posts: 407
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:02 am 
 

Eh just as someone said on the military.com forums "If those hippies in Paris really care so much about the situation they should not be in Europe protesting they should be buying a rifle and heading on over to Tibet and then they can free the hell out of it all they want".
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Woolie_Wool
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
Posts: 1674
Location: Far beyond the prophecy of tyrant guardians
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:26 pm 
 

I personally think protesting is a better idea than freelance civilians going to Tibet to kill people.

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fatlamer
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:46 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:25 am 
 

People still watch the Olympics? I stopped caring after the drug scandals, bribe taking by Olympic officials and allowing professional athletes in the competitions. The "Olympic Ideal" died a long time ago.

It is obvious that there are a few things going on here. First, those calling for a boycott have personal agendas. The Olympics let them get on the news and get a couple of minutes of everyone's attention. For China, the Olympics, like sending people into space, is a PR event. The Tibetans know this, hence the coincidental timing of their protests. The US won't really do anything because of their trade deficit, bad economy and love-hate relationship with China. All this should be obvious to anyone following the boycott story.

The Western media tends to distort reporting when talking about Tibet, not as much as Chinese media, but still quite a bit. The fact that Tibetans used to be ruled by the Lamas, like peasants in Medieval Europe, rarely comes up in news reports. The relatively small scale protests in proportion to the entire Tibetan population also rarely makes the news. An no comparisons seems to be made between the genocide of native American Indians or the British colonist's bloody campaigns of destruction not so long ago. People tend to forget that Communist China is a fairly young country, and it takes time for stuff like this to end as everyone in the country gains an awareness of the situation.

The point is, everyone is in it for their own interests. The Lamas want their land, money and control back. The Chinese wants Tibet's resources and keep the PRC unified. The Tibetans just want any stable government, a bit more money and media attention. Western interests want to use this opportunity to highlight China's negative aspects, like its horrible human rights record. (Although, they don't seem reluctant to mention the low crime rate in Chinese cities or how Chinese universities are doing extremely well in Engineering and Science globally). I have been to China quite a few times, and what I saw for myself and heard from the locals are very different to Western news reports.

The time allocated by news network to reporting the boycott and Olympic torch relay is much more scary to me, considering the large quantities of REAL news, such as the situation in Iraq, Iran, North Korea and Pakistan, which I am much more interested in hearing about.

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1568
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:43 pm 
 

most people in the west don't know shit about China and how they have liberated Tibet, previously ruled by theocratic dictatorship.

in fact, i'd be so bold to say that most people in the west don't know much about China, period.

the west love to poke their noses into other people's business and make foreign countries targets. fuck.

Boycott Earth.

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DBettino
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 2151
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:54 pm 
 

thejuicebitch is correct.

If the Olympics were in LA, people around the world would be advocating a boycott on the grounds of America's illegal war with Iraq. For Americans to boycott China is particularly hypocritical at our present stage in world politics.

People have this grotesque idea of what life is like for Chinese citizens. I'm not saying the media's not scrutinized intensely by the government, but if you can walk into a bank and get a loan any time you want because your country's overflowing with capital, what the fuck would you care?

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DBettino
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 2151
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:05 pm 
 

It's natural for arrogant but well-intentioned people of the First World to feel guilty about the price at which their nation's material wealth is attained. But when these concerns become self-righteous and hypocritical, it's time for a counter-revolution. We now need realists to put these people in their place. And these same well-intentioned souls, attached to the silly concept of being a 'global citizen', feel free to censure governments of other countries, too. Does it ever stop? When do they shut their mouths and join the Peace Corps?

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fiercetroll
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:44 am
Posts: 460
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:44 am 
 

I was watching the coverage of the protests at the Australian leg of the Olympic flame today and both sides are pretty much wasting their time. On the one hand we have the blind patriots who can't see the faults in their own country and on the other hand we have a bunch of people who think that sitting in the path of the flame is somehow going to bring peace to Tibet.
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saintinhell
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:19 am
Posts: 1426
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:17 am 
 

thejuicebitch wrote:
the west love to poke their noses into other people's business and make foreign countries targets.



Indeed, just yesterday or so, USA wanted us (India) to follow the Security Council diktat on any dealings with Iran. Yeah, like they took UN's permission to go to Iraq, right? Hey, it's ok, you can go collect all the oil you want in the name of war on terror, just don't poke your nose into our affairs, that's all. I am sure a lot of Chinese people must find Western pontification on democracy and respecting the rights of the individual rather amusing.

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juicebitch
Juice Bitch

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 1568
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:43 pm 
 

saintinhell wrote:
thejuicebitch wrote:
the west love to poke their noses into other people's business and make foreign countries targets.



I am sure a lot of Chinese people must find Western pontification on democracy and respecting the rights of the individual rather amusing.


We sure do

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Foxx
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:59 am
Posts: 856
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:07 am 
 

thejuicebitch wrote:
in fact, i'd be so bold to say that most people in the west don't know much about China, period.


Indeed. This is pretty much why I think people should shut the fuck up about the situation in Tibet and let it be sorted out without interference from other countries, as it appears that both parties actually do want to reach an amicable solution.

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