Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 



This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
Star-Gazer
Trust and you'll be trusted

Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:07 am 
 

Now this is just an insane record for the "freest nation" on earth to hold!

The obvious racial (though I am sure there are some who would say "racist") implications aside, what else does this say about us and our priorities as a nation?

The obvious first step is to end the War on Drugs. What else? Some may say a bullet is cheaper than housing and feeding criminals, but that defeats the whole purpose of life, liberty, etc

Top
 Profile  
Lunar_Strain
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:29 pm
Posts: 513
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:21 am 
 

Of course Florida, Texas and California would be the highest, since we get the majority of illegal immigrants and minorities to this country.

And how 'tf do New York and Chicago not get put in the top? Their backgrounds alone should qualify enough to make it in the top five! :wtf:
_________________
Napero wrote:
Lunar_Strain wrote:
Yes. Our Germanic brethren in the Northland never wore bear or wolf fur. =/

Yes they did, but they scavenged them from animals that had died naturally. "Viking" is actually an archaic word for "Vegan".

Top
 Profile  
Zythifer
RP's left nut tastes like breastmilk

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:28 am
Posts: 128
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:27 am 
 

einvolk wrote:
Now this is just an insane record for the "freest nation" on earth to hold!

The obvious racial (though I am sure there are some who would say "racist") implications aside, what else does this say about us and our priorities as a nation?
Why not call it racist? I see people throw around the notion that blacks are inherently more criminal than whites, though if that's true then I'm sure the problem is circular, as negro-centric neighborhoods are devastated by the war on drugs. However, the majority of jailed drug users are black, while the majority of illicit drug users overall are white. If not racist, it's at least class-ist.

Top
 Profile  
vondskapens_makt
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:23 pm
Posts: 567
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:40 am 
 

To an extent it is racial, though I would also place some blame on the media and the amount of ghetto culture it broadcasts every day. If you're going to glorify a culture that advocates absolutely no respect, intelligence, lack of morals or ethics, and violence then what do you expect?
_________________
{:d:}

The eye can outstare neither the sun, nor death... if I sought God it was in delirium and in the delight of temptation.

Top
 Profile  
OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 9897
Location: Seattle, United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:47 am 
 

I just did a paper on the US' war on drugs, and yes it is a sad fact that we have that many people jailed up. I did two editions, one detailing a neutral standpoint and one that was against the war on drugs. We've wasted billions of dollars for poor results and it isn't getting any better. Sad fact that Obama is gonna continue this shit.

einvolk wrote:
Some may say a bullet is cheaper than housing and feeding criminals, but that defeats the whole purpose of life, liberty, etc

If they're jailed up then they are deprived of liberty and happiness, for one. Life, meh, if you took one then what goes around comes around.
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Yesterday was the birthday of school pal and I met the chick of my sigh (I've talked about here before, the she-wolf I use to be inlove with)... Maaan she was using a mini-skirt too damn insane... Dude you could saw her entire soul every time she sit...

Top
 Profile  
greysnow
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:01 am
Posts: 378
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:12 am 
 

einvolk wrote:
The obvious racial (though I am sure there are some who would say "racist") implications aside,

Well, if you want to leave the "obvious" racial implications aside, why do you mention them at all? That is just a sneaky way to spread a little white power poison. Watch out for snakes indeed.

einvolk wrote:
what else does this say about us and our priorities as a nation?

It says that you love putting people in jail more than any other nation. I suppose, it's a "keep 'em out of sight" mentality so you don't have to deal with the causes. Also, it says that American sentences are harsher than for example European ones.

einvolk wrote:
The obvious first step is to end the War on Drugs. What else? Some may say a bullet is cheaper than housing and feeding criminals, but that defeats the whole purpose of life, liberty, etc

I love it how you insinuate your opinions without standing by them. Without your mentioning bullets, I doubt anyone would have suggested "just shoot 'em" very soon. So you leave someone else, maybe someone more naive than you, to take up your insinuation, while you yourself remain free of blame. Congratulations.
_________________
Looking up at the stars, I know quite well
That, for all they care, I can go to hell.

Top
 Profile  
caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
Posts: 6119
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:53 am 
 

Goddamn, Anti-fascists are so annoying. A less toxic ideology then facism, sure, but it's one hell of a lot more self righteous, smug and generally annoying. We all know that Einvolk is a nutter, sure, but this:

Quote:
"While one in 30 men between the ages of 20 and 34 is behind bars, for black males in that age group the figure is one in nine."


Well, it's pretty crazy really. One in Nine? NINE? Holy crap.

Clearly, it seems that Americans love putting people in prison where things like community service, fines, or other, less expensive/more beneficial to society means should be taken. Unlikely it will change anytime soon, though.

..That's pretty much all I've got here, no point repeating any ":( War on drugs is dumb :( " kind of thing.

Top
 Profile  
greysnow
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:01 am
Posts: 378
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:18 am 
 

caspian wrote:
Goddamn, Anti-fascists are so annoying. A less toxic ideology then facism, sure, but it's one hell of a lot more self righteous, smug and generally annoying. We all know that Einvolk is a nutter, sure, but this:

Quote:
"While one in 30 men between the ages of 20 and 34 is behind bars, for black males in that age group the figure is one in nine."


Well, it's pretty crazy really. One in Nine? NINE? Holy crap.


:lol: I thought we were supposed to leave the racial implications aside? einvolk said so. :roll:
_________________
Looking up at the stars, I know quite well
That, for all they care, I can go to hell.

Top
 Profile  
BlindTortureKill
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1219
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:21 pm 
 

Didn't this have something to do with the three-strike-out thing in some states?
Correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought you get life sentence in some states at your third crime, even if you stole a bag of chips 3 times.

Top
 Profile  
BeforeGod
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 175
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:48 pm 
 

caspian wrote:
Goddamn, Anti-fascists are so annoying. A less toxic ideology then facism, sure, but it's one hell of a lot more self righteous, smug and generally annoying.


Since when has einvolk been a fascist? There's nothing inherently racist about fascism, nor is there anything inherently fascist about racism.

Top
 Profile  
ampc
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:35 pm
Posts: 121
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:24 pm 
 

Lunar_Strain wrote:
Of course Florida, Texas and California would be the highest, since we get the majority of illegal immigrants and minorities to this country.


No, illegal immigrants get deported, they don't get sent to jail. I'd still say it is related to the fact that they are bordering states. Smuggling drugs into the US, trying to escape the police by 'going to Mexico' (why doesn't anybody ever try to go to Canada?), etc.
_________________
<WizardDwarf> I think it's funny that a one-man black metal project like Mirrorthrone can create such great music, and it takes nine people in Slipknot to create such crap.

Top
 Profile  
Star-Gazer
Trust and you'll be trusted

Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:40 pm 
 

greysnow wrote:
einvolk wrote:
The obvious racial (though I am sure there are some who would say "racist") implications aside,

Well, if you want to leave the "obvious" racial implications aside, why do you mention them at all? That is just a sneaky way to spread a little white power poison. Watch out for snakes indeed.
because I didnt want this to turn into another thread full of "poison"
just to stick to the specific subject matter in the OP is often a difficult task here

greysnow wrote:
einvolk wrote:
what else does this say about us and our priorities as a nation?

It says that you love putting people in jail more than any other nation. I suppose, it's a "keep 'em out of sight" mentality so you don't have to deal with the causes. Also, it says that American sentences are harsher than for example European ones.
fair points

greysnow wrote:
einvolk wrote:
The obvious first step is to end the War on Drugs. What else? Some may say a bullet is cheaper than housing and feeding criminals, but that defeats the whole purpose of life, liberty, etc

I love it how you insinuate your opinions without standing by them. Without your mentioning bullets, I doubt anyone would have suggested "just shoot 'em" very soon. So you leave someone else, maybe someone more naive than you, to take up your insinuation, while you yourself remain free of blame. Congratulations.
I would NEVER suggest the killing of anyone - no matter what their crime! I apologize if you thought I was insinuating this, I just know the mentality here can be overly simplistic and/or childish at times
I guess I am unclear as to where the accusation of naivity (is that a word?) would arise from anything I have said or done??!?!

caspian wrote:
We all know that Einvolk is a nutter
:) a nice, friendly nutter, for sure! (Im not that off-kilter, am I?)

BlindTortureKill wrote:
Didn't this have something to do with the three-strike-out thing in some states?
Correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought you get life sentence in some states at your third crime, even if you stole a bag of chips 3 times.
yes, this is ridiculous as well (though I think in theory it is to be applied to serious crimes because of the number of lenient judges letting them back on the streets time and time again)

vondskapens_makt wrote:
I would also place some blame on the media and the amount of ghetto culture it broadcasts every day. If you're going to glorify a culture that advocates absolutely no respect, intelligence, lack of morals or ethics, and violence then what do you expect?
is this popularity of the ghetto lifestyle unique to the US?

OzzyApu wrote:
I just did a paper on the US' war on drugs, and yes it is a sad fact that we have that many people jailed up. I did two editions, one detailing a neutral standpoint and one that was against the war on drugs. We've wasted billions of dollars for poor results and it isn't getting any better. Sad fact that Obama is gonna continue this shit.
the War on Drugs is the absolute most ridiculous waste of money and its just creates a wehole new class of criminal

our social "sciences" have fucked it all up with payoffs in the form of welfare to keep the poor from rioting

Top
 Profile  
Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:28 pm 
 

vondskapens_makt wrote:
To an extent it is racial, though I would also place some blame on the media and the amount of ghetto culture it broadcasts every day. If you're going to glorify a culture that advocates absolutely no respect, intelligence, lack of morals or ethics, and violence then what do you expect?


I do think that while the system in the US may well be stacked against Blacks in some ways, I absolutely do NOT believe that the abnormally large numbers of incarcerated Blacks by comparison to their percentage of the population has anything to do with anything other than the fact that Blacks commit a disproportionately large number of crimes.

Does it have to do with the popularity of the "thug" lifestyle? Maybe, but I sure as hell didn't impose that on them, and neither did anyone else. Black America needs to listen to well-meaning members of its community like Bill Cosby and clean its act up--glorifying stupidity, violence, ignorance, and letting your ass hang out in public because you think it looks cool, all under the motto of "keepin' it real," whatever that even means... with apologies to Dr. Phil: "How's that workin' out for ya?"

As for the "respect" issue--the "thug" lifestyle is doubly ridiculous in that it demands unearned respect from strangers. How many times have you heard some dude say you've disrespected him, because you said excuse me when he was standing in your way. Courtesy is owed, respect is earned, and until Black America figures that out, there are two things that will come of it: one, Blacks who are minding their own business and existing honestly within society will continue to be targeted for looking like the bad guys, and two: there will really be no-one to blame for it but the Blacks who choose to act in an anti-social manner, commit crimes, target other members of their race who achieve in school as "acting white," or glorify and emulate crime and violence.

I lived in NYC for five years, and there's one thing I can tell you for sure--I only ONCE heard a white person say "Nigger," and she was a clearly demented street person; on the other hand, leaving the fact that I heard Black people say it all the time entirely aside, I heard hateful, ignorant, obnoxious crap about, or directed toward, white people by Blacks all the time. That's "keepin' it real."

Top
 Profile  
Osmium
The Hateful Raven

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:18 am
Posts: 2521
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:30 pm 
 

The War on Drugs is largely responsible for the high incarceration rates among blacks. That, and blacks tend to occupy lower socioeconomic positions, meaning that they can't afford a personal lawyer and are lumped under an overworked state-appointed one.

Top
 Profile  
Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:37 pm 
 

Osmium wrote:
The War on Drugs is largely responsible for the high incarceration rates among blacks. That, and blacks tend to occupy lower socioeconomic positions, meaning that they can't afford a personal lawyer and are lumped under an overworked state-appointed one.


Plus, a lot of them shoot each other.

Top
 Profile  
MazeofTorment
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:06 pm
Posts: 2039
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:39 pm 
 

Svartalf wrote:
Osmium wrote:
The War on Drugs is largely responsible for the high incarceration rates among blacks. That, and blacks tend to occupy lower socioeconomic positions, meaning that they can't afford a personal lawyer and are lumped under an overworked state-appointed one.


Plus, a lot of them shoot each other.

I wont say I dont sometimes hold my own prejudices about blacks but thinking clearly about such things, you have to look at the matter from a sociological point of view to really try and make any real sense of it. Problems go far beyond the individual actions of people.
_________________
Sokaris wrote:
I love this board but I'm fucking tired of everyone ejaculating every time someone puts a tree on an album cover.

Top
 Profile  
Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:52 pm 
 

MazeofTorment wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Osmium wrote:
The War on Drugs is largely responsible for the high incarceration rates among blacks. That, and blacks tend to occupy lower socioeconomic positions, meaning that they can't afford a personal lawyer and are lumped under an overworked state-appointed one.


Plus, a lot of them shoot each other.

I wont say I dont sometimes hold my own prejudices about blacks but thinking clearly about such things, you have to look at the matter from a sociological point of view to really try and make any real sense of it. Problems go far beyond the individual actions of people.


You're right, that was a tad flip. But looking at the issue of lower socio-economic status, a lot of it can be explained in ways other than white-on-black prejudice; the aforementioned issue of accusing other blacks who achieve academically of "acting white," (with the implied black on white racism obviously inherent) cannot be helping.

Here's an example: despite one of the most aggressive affirmative action admissions policies anywhere, do you know how many black graduate students and post-doctural fellows there are in the biology and ecology departments at the major university where we live, out of a population of maybe 75? ONE. And he's from Ethiopia. This attitude is eating Black America alive. And you can't blame it all on bad lawyers and the war on drugs.

Top
 Profile  
Sir_General_Flashman
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:23 am
Posts: 363
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:00 pm 
 

1/100 americans jailed if you see what half of them are jailed for.

My social studies teacher was jailed in the 90's because his friend, who was speeding in georgia, told the officer as follows:
Officer: What're ya doin' speedin' in Georgia *spits tobacco*, nobody speeds through georgia"

teachers friend:"sherman did"

People get jailed for stupid things, which is why this means nothing.

Now if 1/100 americans were jailed for drug trafficking or violent crimes that is something different.
_________________
red_blood_inside wrote:
I forsee a new metal style called Death-Grind-Power-Ranger-Potter of the rings, and its kvltnes and tr00ness will be beyond this world

Top
 Profile  
caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
Posts: 6119
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:04 pm 
 

BeforeGod wrote:
caspian wrote:
Goddamn, Anti-fascists are so annoying. A less toxic ideology then facism, sure, but it's one hell of a lot more self righteous, smug and generally annoying.


Since when has einvolk been a fascist? There's nothing inherently racist about fascism, nor is there anything inherently fascist about racism.


Well, I've typically associated the two together. I've never been good with political labels.

Quote:
My social studies teacher was jailed in the 90's because his friend, who was speeding in georgia, told the officer as follows:
Officer: What're ya doin' speedin' in Georgia *spits tobacco*, nobody speeds through georgia"

teachers friend:"sherman did"


:lol:

Top
 Profile  
Earthcubed
Peregrinus sine aetate

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 2761
Location: Orocarni
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:25 pm 
 

As far as the issue of academically conscious blacks being "white" or "not black enough,"



(linky for people with gameboy-sized monitors)



^read that book. It's a true story of a black guy who went to a Washington, D.C. high school and ended up in the Ivy League. You know how he did well in high school? By not having any friends. No, literally. Everyone else at his school was either dealing drugs, doing drugs, slacking off, or stabbing/shooting people (or getting stabbed or shot). The only way to make it to college was to ignore everyone else. That's fucking sad that there's schools like that anywhere in the world, where serious students are so rare they can't even group together.

Fucking pathetic.
_________________
Quote:
<@failsafeman> if you touch a girl while you're fucking a gorilla, it doesn't count as gay
<@failsafeman> that's a rule


Last edited by Earthcubed on Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
bloodriver
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:40 am
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:46 pm 
 

Can you please tag your links so the page won't stretch?

Top
 Profile  
cinedracusio
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 7:59 am
Posts: 493
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:35 am 
 

Zythifer wrote:
einvolk wrote:
Now this is just an insane record for the "freest nation" on earth to hold!

The obvious racial (though I am sure there are some who would say "racist") implications aside, what else does this say about us and our priorities as a nation?
Why not call it racist? I see people throw around the notion that blacks are inherently more criminal than whites, though if that's true then I'm sure the problem is circular, as negro-centric neighborhoods are devastated by the war on drugs. However, the majority of jailed drug users are black, while the majority of illicit drug users overall are white. If not racist, it's at least class-ist.

Oh well. I just hope that hot ebony chicks starring in porn movies aren't arrested and jailed. THAT kind of racism really sucks.
Eh, that was mean of me.
_________________
invoked wrote:
Remember kids, retardation exists across all races, nationalities, and universities!

Top
 Profile  
Thorgrim_Honkronte
Imperius Rexxz

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 pm
Posts: 2903
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:40 am 
 

cinedracusio wrote:
Oh well. I just hope that hot ebony chicks starring in porn movies aren't arrested and jailed. THAT kind of racism really sucks.
Eh, that was mean of me.



Those kind of posts don't belong in the Symposium.
_________________
http://www.myspace.com/atrophyhouston

Strange Death Metal

Top
 Profile  
ebola_legion
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:00 am
Posts: 67
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:57 am 
 

vondskapens_makt wrote:
... though I would also place some blame on the media and the amount of ghetto culture it broadcasts every day. If you're going to glorify a culture that advocates absolutely no respect, intelligence, lack of morals or ethics, and violence then what do you expect?



Ohhh man, I just couldn't agree more. Stupid is as stupid does :ugh:


caspian wrote:
Clearly, it seems that Americans love putting people in prison where things like community service, fines, or other, less expensive/more beneficial to society means should be taken. Unlikely it will change anytime soon, though.



I've always wondered why the U.S. doesn't put the incarcerated into serious employment and rehabilitation programs. So many mass production jobs that are being/have been outsourced across the world could be kept in this country, maybe they could even yield a profit for the government. A second working class if you will, but instead of using this large untapped source of free labor we just leave them to rot and quarrel amongst each other. Well that isn't American :roll:


The judicial system is in need of major reform, hopefully this change will be something tangible and not just something we can "believe" in.
_________________
Balaam_Abaddon wrote:
I am Kurt Cobain's reencarnation, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart. The similarities between Kurt and I, are incredibly close, words can not describe my feelings for Kurt. I love him, and his music.

Top
 Profile  
Gooner
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:57 am
Posts: 21
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:09 am 
 

cinedracusio wrote:
Oh well. I just hope that hot ebony chicks starring in porn movies aren't arrested and jailed. THAT kind of racism really sucks.
Eh, that was mean of me.


This is seconded

Top
 Profile  
vondskapens_makt
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:23 pm
Posts: 567
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:35 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
As far as the issue of academically conscious blacks being "white" or "not black enough,"



(linky for people with gameboy-sized monitors)



^read that book. It's a true story of a black guy who went to a Washington, D.C. high school and ended up in the Ivy League. You know how he did well in high school? By not having any friends. No, literally. Everyone else at his school was either dealing drugs, doing drugs, slacking off, or stabbing/shooting people (or getting stabbed or shot). The only way to make it to college was to ignore everyone else. That's fucking sad that there's schools like that anywhere in the world, where serious students are so rare they can't even group together.

Fucking pathetic.


The last sentence is especially true for most of the schools in my area. Students that actually strive for success and try to gain an education are actually rare around here. The majority are just untermensch.
_________________
{:d:}

The eye can outstare neither the sun, nor death... if I sought God it was in delirium and in the delight of temptation.

Top
 Profile  
ASupervillain
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:44 pm
Posts: 139
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:39 pm 
 

Well you already said that an obvious solution is to end the war on drugs, not even ending the war on drugs though, just end the war on cannabis. Not only will the prison system be freed up for people who are actually criminals and have done something wrong, but the economy in the country will improve altogether.

Top
 Profile  
NonEsDignus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:44 pm
Posts: 605
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:42 pm 
 

Svartalf wrote:
vondskapens_makt wrote:
To an extent it is racial, though I would also place some blame on the media and the amount of ghetto culture it broadcasts every day. If you're going to glorify a culture that advocates absolutely no respect, intelligence, lack of morals or ethics, and violence then what do you expect?


I do think that while the system in the US may well be stacked against Blacks in some ways, I absolutely do NOT believe that the abnormally large numbers of incarcerated Blacks by comparison to their percentage of the population has anything to do with anything other than the fact that Blacks commit a disproportionately large number of crimes.

Does it have to do with the popularity of the "thug" lifestyle? Maybe, but I sure as hell didn't impose that on them, and neither did anyone else. Black America needs to listen to well-meaning members of its community like Bill Cosby and clean its act up--glorifying stupidity, violence, ignorance, and letting your ass hang out in public because you think it looks cool, all under the motto of "keepin' it real," whatever that even means... with apologies to Dr. Phil: "How's that workin' out for ya?"

As for the "respect" issue--the "thug" lifestyle is doubly ridiculous in that it demands unearned respect from strangers. How many times have you heard some dude say you've disrespected him, because you said excuse me when he was standing in your way. Courtesy is owed, respect is earned, and until Black America figures that out, there are two things that will come of it: one, Blacks who are minding their own business and existing honestly within society will continue to be targeted for looking like the bad guys, and two: there will really be no-one to blame for it but the Blacks who choose to act in an anti-social manner, commit crimes, target other members of their race who achieve in school as "acting white," or glorify and emulate crime and violence.

I lived in NYC for five years, and there's one thing I can tell you for sure--I only ONCE heard a white person say "Nigger," and she was a clearly demented street person; on the other hand, leaving the fact that I heard Black people say it all the time entirely aside, I heard hateful, ignorant, obnoxious crap about, or directed toward, white people by Blacks all the time. That's "keepin' it real."


Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

Every time I have tried to express this to anybody I have been called a racist.
_________________
TheUglySoldier wrote:
Music in it's electronic form takes up much less space in the physical world, leaving more room for trees and shit.

Top
 Profile  
Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:57 pm 
 

NonEsDignus wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
vondskapens_makt wrote:
To an extent it is racial, though I would also place some blame on the media and the amount of ghetto culture it broadcasts every day. If you're going to glorify a culture that advocates absolutely no respect, intelligence, lack of morals or ethics, and violence then what do you expect?


I do think that while the system in the US may well be stacked against Blacks in some ways, I absolutely do NOT believe that the abnormally large numbers of incarcerated Blacks by comparison to their percentage of the population has anything to do with anything other than the fact that Blacks commit a disproportionately large number of crimes.

Does it have to do with the popularity of the "thug" lifestyle? Maybe, but I sure as hell didn't impose that on them, and neither did anyone else. Black America needs to listen to well-meaning members of its community like Bill Cosby and clean its act up--glorifying stupidity, violence, ignorance, and letting your ass hang out in public because you think it looks cool, all under the motto of "keepin' it real," whatever that even means... with apologies to Dr. Phil: "How's that workin' out for ya?"

As for the "respect" issue--the "thug" lifestyle is doubly ridiculous in that it demands unearned respect from strangers. How many times have you heard some dude say you've disrespected him, because you said excuse me when he was standing in your way. Courtesy is owed, respect is earned, and until Black America figures that out, there are two things that will come of it: one, Blacks who are minding their own business and existing honestly within society will continue to be targeted for looking like the bad guys, and two: there will really be no-one to blame for it but the Blacks who choose to act in an anti-social manner, commit crimes, target other members of their race who achieve in school as "acting white," or glorify and emulate crime and violence.

I lived in NYC for five years, and there's one thing I can tell you for sure--I only ONCE heard a white person say "Nigger," and she was a clearly demented street person; on the other hand, leaving the fact that I heard Black people say it all the time entirely aside, I heard hateful, ignorant, obnoxious crap about, or directed toward, white people by Blacks all the time. That's "keepin' it real."


Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

Every time I have tried to express this to anybody I have been called a racist.


I guess we'll just have to be "racists" together.

My response is, sure I'm a racist, especially if you don't know the difference between race and culture...

Having lived five years in NYC, I have been exposed to both the best and worst that people of African descent have to offer, and I will tell you one thing for sure--nobody on the planet has more contempt for the fuckwittery that passes itself off as Black youth culture in our country than Africans, people who have a real good handle on both what unchecked violence produces, and how valuable a good education is.

Top
 Profile  
OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 9897
Location: Seattle, United States
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:58 pm 
 

NonEsDignus wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
vondskapens_makt wrote:
keepin it reals

spirit of truth


Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

Every time I have tried to express this to anybody I have been called a racist.

I've been intrigued by the Germans during WW1 and WW2 and have beneficial called a Nazi for it.

I'm pro-choice and have been called a murderer for it.

I joined the army and have been assaulted, cursed, and even spat on.

I've been told that I will burn in hellfire if I don't follow Jesus or Allah.

I hate stupid people.
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Yesterday was the birthday of school pal and I met the chick of my sigh (I've talked about here before, the she-wolf I use to be inlove with)... Maaan she was using a mini-skirt too damn insane... Dude you could saw her entire soul every time she sit...


Last edited by OzzyApu on Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
RedMisanthrope
Poet Laureate of the Old Ones

Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:53 pm
Posts: 1961
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:58 pm 
 

Svartalf wrote:
vondskapens_makt wrote:
To an extent it is racial, though I would also place some blame on the media and the amount of ghetto culture it broadcasts every day. If you're going to glorify a culture that advocates absolutely no respect, intelligence, lack of morals or ethics, and violence then what do you expect?


I do think that while the system in the US may well be stacked against Blacks in some ways, I absolutely do NOT believe that the abnormally large numbers of incarcerated Blacks by comparison to their percentage of the population has anything to do with anything other than the fact that Blacks commit a disproportionately large number of crimes.

Does it have to do with the popularity of the "thug" lifestyle? Maybe, but I sure as hell didn't impose that on them, and neither did anyone else. Black America needs to listen to well-meaning members of its community like Bill Cosby and clean its act up--glorifying stupidity, violence, ignorance, and letting your ass hang out in public because you think it looks cool, all under the motto of "keepin' it real," whatever that even means... with apologies to Dr. Phil: "How's that workin' out for ya?"

As for the "respect" issue--the "thug" lifestyle is doubly ridiculous in that it demands unearned respect from strangers. How many times have you heard some dude say you've disrespected him, because you said excuse me when he was standing in your way. Courtesy is owed, respect is earned, and until Black America figures that out, there are two things that will come of it: one, Blacks who are minding their own business and existing honestly within society will continue to be targeted for looking like the bad guys, and two: there will really be no-one to blame for it but the Blacks who choose to act in an anti-social manner, commit crimes, target other members of their race who achieve in school as "acting white," or glorify and emulate crime and violence.

I lived in NYC for five years, and there's one thing I can tell you for sure--I only ONCE heard a white person say "Nigger," and she was a clearly demented street person; on the other hand, leaving the fact that I heard Black people say it all the time entirely aside, I heard hateful, ignorant, obnoxious crap about, or directed toward, white people by Blacks all the time. That's "keepin' it real."


Well done. There's just no beating reality.
_________________
Bezerko, on Vader's 'Freezing Moon' cover wrote:
FREEZING MOON DOES NOT HAVE CHUGS VADER. DO NOT CHUG IN FREEZING MOON.
rexxz wrote:
Death metal is eternal.

Top
 Profile  
vondskapens_makt
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:23 pm
Posts: 567
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:05 am 
 

Svartalf wrote:
NonEsDignus wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
vondskapens_makt wrote:
To an extent it is racial, though I would also place some blame on the media and the amount of ghetto culture it broadcasts every day. If you're going to glorify a culture that advocates absolutely no respect, intelligence, lack of morals or ethics, and violence then what do you expect?


I do think that while the system in the US may well be stacked against Blacks in some ways, I absolutely do NOT believe that the abnormally large numbers of incarcerated Blacks by comparison to their percentage of the population has anything to do with anything other than the fact that Blacks commit a disproportionately large number of crimes.

Does it have to do with the popularity of the "thug" lifestyle? Maybe, but I sure as hell didn't impose that on them, and neither did anyone else. Black America needs to listen to well-meaning members of its community like Bill Cosby and clean its act up--glorifying stupidity, violence, ignorance, and letting your ass hang out in public because you think it looks cool, all under the motto of "keepin' it real," whatever that even means... with apologies to Dr. Phil: "How's that workin' out for ya?"

As for the "respect" issue--the "thug" lifestyle is doubly ridiculous in that it demands unearned respect from strangers. How many times have you heard some dude say you've disrespected him, because you said excuse me when he was standing in your way. Courtesy is owed, respect is earned, and until Black America figures that out, there are two things that will come of it: one, Blacks who are minding their own business and existing honestly within society will continue to be targeted for looking like the bad guys, and two: there will really be no-one to blame for it but the Blacks who choose to act in an anti-social manner, commit crimes, target other members of their race who achieve in school as "acting white," or glorify and emulate crime and violence.

I lived in NYC for five years, and there's one thing I can tell you for sure--I only ONCE heard a white person say "Nigger," and she was a clearly demented street person; on the other hand, leaving the fact that I heard Black people say it all the time entirely aside, I heard hateful, ignorant, obnoxious crap about, or directed toward, white people by Blacks all the time. That's "keepin' it real."


Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

Every time I have tried to express this to anybody I have been called a racist.


I guess we'll just have to be "racists" together.

My response is, sure I'm a racist, especially if you don't know the difference between race and culture...

Having lived five years in NYC, I have been exposed to both the best and worst that people of African descent have to offer, and I will tell you one thing for sure--nobody on the planet has more contempt for the fuckwittery that passes itself off as Black youth culture in our country than Africans, people who have a real good handle on both what unchecked violence produces, and how valuable a good education is.


Lucky bastards, I've lived here for 17 years, and still counting. :grumble:
_________________
{:d:}

The eye can outstare neither the sun, nor death... if I sought God it was in delirium and in the delight of temptation.

Top
 Profile  
Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:29 am 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
I've been intrigued by the Germans during WW1 and WW2 and have beneficial called a Nazi for it.

I'm pro-choice and have been called a murderer for it.

I joined the army and have been assaulted, cursed, and even spat on.

I've been told that I will burn in hellfire if I don't follow Jesus or Allah.

I hate stupid people.


In general, dude, whatever people have no rational argument for confronting with logic, they will react to with witchhunting; simple fact: you will always be vulnerable to the empty invective of people less intelligent than yourself if you dare to speak your mind about "controversial" topics.

I'm married to a Muslim Asian, and people who have no clue what they're talking about will frequently refer to me as an Islamophobe and a racist, principally because they just don't get the difference between race, culture, and religion.

Now if somebody would just call me out for what I am, let's call it a "Euro-centric, pro-tolerance, secularist, anti-extremist, anti-theocratic moderate," I would gladly admit it, but for the people who imagine they can dismiss you in a sentence, that's just too damn many syllables.

Top
 Profile  
BeforeGod
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 175
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:38 am 
 

Svartalf wrote:
I'm married to a Muslim Asian


Why?

Top
 Profile  
orionmetalhead
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 2468
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:12 am 
 

What is also important to recognize is how the so called thug life-style that Svartalf touched upon is becoming a lifestyle to "live up to" for people who are not linked to its social origins. Middle Class American teens are falling prey to this culture also.
_________________
CONTAMINATED TONES - BLOG/LABEL/DISTRO
Facebook

Top
 Profile  
OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 9897
Location: Seattle, United States
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:19 am 
 

orionmetalhead wrote:
What is also important to recognize is how the so called thug life-style that Svartalf touched upon is becoming a lifestyle to "live up to" for people who are not linked to its social origins. Middle Class American teens are falling prey to this culture also.

European girls are falling to this too!! We gotta get them before its too late!
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Yesterday was the birthday of school pal and I met the chick of my sigh (I've talked about here before, the she-wolf I use to be inlove with)... Maaan she was using a mini-skirt too damn insane... Dude you could saw her entire soul every time she sit...

Top
 Profile  
Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:37 am 
 

BeforeGod wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
I'm married to a Muslim Asian


Why?


Because she's extremely smart, incredibly attractive, and comes from a similar upper-middle-class socio-economic stratum to my own, obviously--why does anyone marry anyone? Keep this off Symposium, it adds nothing to the discussion and is irrelevant in any case. This forum is for people who have something to add, as I found out to my own detriment in its early days.

I only mentioned it to bring light to the fact that OzzyApu is not the only person who has experienced the idiocy of others' ignorant and unreasoned accusations, which if they had thought about for two seconds or bothered to let things like fact or logic interfere with the stream of their thought processes they would have kept their mouths shut.

Actually, I do have a question for you, which might add something to the discussion (if toss it a bit off-topic): WHY was it that out of a well-reasoned, and well-written post, in the middle of an awesome thread, that that was the thing you decided to latch onto (aside from vehemently defending fascists against charges of racism, or racists against charges of fascism; I can't figure out which :lol:)? Hmmmm? Why do you suppose that would be?


Last edited by Svartalf on Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
vondskapens_makt
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:23 pm
Posts: 567
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:44 pm 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
I've been intrigued by the Germans during WW1 and WW2 and have beneficial called a Nazi for it.

I'm pro-choice and have been called a murderer for it.

I joined the army and have been assaulted, cursed, and even spat on.

I've been told that I will burn in hellfire if I don't follow Jesus or Allah.

I hate stupid people.


If ever you're out on the field with those dickheads, I think a bit of friendly fire is in order. :thumbsup:
_________________
{:d:}

The eye can outstare neither the sun, nor death... if I sought God it was in delirium and in the delight of temptation.

Top
 Profile  
BeforeGod
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 175
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:18 am 
 

Svartalf wrote:
Actually, I do have a question for you, which might add something to the discussion: WHY was it that out of an well-reasoned, and well-written post, in the middle of an awesome thread, that that was the thing you decided to latch onto (aside from vehemently defending fascists against charges of racism, or racists against charges of fascism; I can't figure out which :lol:)? Hmmmm? Why do you suppose that would be?


Vehemently? Not really. I'm just not a fan of genocide; nor am I a fan of good little sonderkommandos such as yourself. Anyway, there's no need to de-rail this thread. I'll be back when I have something to contribute about the subject at hand.

Top
 Profile  
Leify
A Whisper of Death

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:54 am
Posts: 744
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:25 am 
 

einvolk wrote:
Some may say a bullet is cheaper than housing and feeding criminals, but that defeats the whole purpose of life, liberty, etc


As far as crimes involving the first hand murder of someone go, an eye for an eye is fine by me.

Religious influences are to blame for both the war on drugs and the lack of an easily permissible death penalty, so what does that tell you about any logic inherent.
_________________
Between the velvet lies, there's a truth that's hard as steel. The vision never dies, life's a never ending wheel.
Stab! Bawl! Punch! Crawl!

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

 
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group