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RedMisanthrope
Poet Laureate of the Old Ones

Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:53 pm
Posts: 1861
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:33 am 
 

This is a very tired and almost dead question, but none the less I ask my fellow Archivers this..

What, to you, is love? By this I mean outside of typical family.

Is it a true, spiritual connection between two people? An animal instinct buried beneath morallity and human perception? Or is it just one of those questions that just really does not have an answer?

Feel free to give any sort of scientific, spirtitual, phlilosophical, or religious explanation you desire.
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Last edited by RedMisanthrope on Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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deathcorpse
Super Cres at Best

Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 369
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:01 pm 
 

Define "love". There is a love between brothers and sisters, parents and children, wife and husband, friends, a certain taste or attachment to an object not living, etc.

If you mean love between 2 people that bonds you into wanting to take the relationship further in creating a being; that's something deeper than just the average connection. Or it should be. There is nothing better than bonding with someone you respect and care about and making a being and raising that being with your morals and values with all the while being able to see that person and yourself in them while they are clearly an individual.

I have been with the same person for going on 16 years this April. You can fall in and out of love with that person, but what makes it worth the while and what makes it work over a period of time are a few things.

1) have certain ideals in common that are your ground principles
2) being attracted to each other is extremely important
3) being able to respect each other and understand who they really are, what makes them tick, etc.
4) being friends is most important

Definitely having a spiritual connection I believe is an important reason why you fall in love with someone. I've been through a lot of bad relationships and basically put certain terms on what I wanted at the time, and found someone who met all of the terms! I hope she thinks the same thing of me.

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saintinhell
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:19 am
Posts: 1351
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:26 pm 
 

deathcorpse wrote:
Define "love". There is a love between brothers and sisters, parents and children, wife and husband, friends, a certain taste or attachment to an object not living, etc.



He already said, "outside the family thing" or something like that. However, yes, it does not address love for say, um, metal.

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Cjk10000
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:20 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:03 pm 
 

Love is a combination of physical attraction and relation in common grounds, and upon which when the physical attraction fades, you still want to spend time with that person regardless of how they look.
It is a connection where you could spend an eternity with the person and not ever be bored, or at least not for a very very very long time.

Love is a huge thing to define, unfortunately due to society when we think "love" we assume sex. In fact, turning love into a verb; literally means sex (Making "love"). Sad, isn't it?
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deathcorpse
Super Cres at Best

Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 369
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:05 pm 
 

saintinhell wrote:
deathcorpse wrote:
Define "love". There is a love between brothers and sisters, parents and children, wife and husband, friends, a certain taste or attachment to an object not living, etc.



He already said, "outside the family thing" or something like that. However, yes, it does not address love for say, um, metal.


No he didn't check the post, it's edited. When I posted this, that wasn't "in there". Check the time of my post, and when he edited his post.

:smile:

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Dragunov
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:34 pm
Posts: 2260
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:31 pm 
 

I believe love to be a selfless, unconditional devotion to something. Strong emotional feelings, a bit of physical attraction thrown into the mix, and a commitment to stand by the person or object in both times of hardship and prosperity.

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RedMisanthrope
Poet Laureate of the Old Ones

Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 1:53 pm
Posts: 1861
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:48 pm 
 

deathcorpse wrote:
saintinhell wrote:
deathcorpse wrote:
Define "love". There is a love between brothers and sisters, parents and children, wife and husband, friends, a certain taste or attachment to an object not living, etc.



He already said, "outside the family thing" or something like that. However, yes, it does not address love for say, um, metal.


No he didn't check the post, it's edited. When I posted this, that wasn't "in there". Check the time of my post, and when he edited his post.

:smile:


You are correct. I didn't specify well enough the first time, even though I thought it was pretty obvious which "love" I was talking about.
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Leify
A Whisper of Death

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:54 am
Posts: 730
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:52 pm 
 

A combination of chemical reactions in the brain.

But then, that's not my personal view of it.
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deathcorpse
Super Cres at Best

Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 369
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:54 pm 
 

RedMisanthrope wrote:
deathcorpse wrote:
saintinhell wrote:
deathcorpse wrote:
Define "love". There is a love between brothers and sisters, parents and children, wife and husband, friends, a certain taste or attachment to an object not living, etc.



He already said, "outside the family thing" or something like that. However, yes, it does not address love for say, um, metal.


No he didn't check the post, it's edited. When I posted this, that wasn't "in there". Check the time of my post, and when he edited his post.

:smile:


You are correct. I didn't specify well enough the first time, even though I thought it was pretty obvious which "love" I was talking about.


I know, I was just being a snob with the first opening sentence.

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blackblood666
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:42 am
Posts: 127
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:55 pm 
 

Love means never having to say you're sorry!

Seriously though, I feel that love is when doing something to make someone else happy makes you happy in turn. I generally put myself in front of everyone else, and I'll give myself the advantage in every situation possible, but if I love someone, then I'll put them in front of me. Just by making them happy, or doing something for them, I am happy, despite being inconvenienced a bit.

It's hard to say exactly what love is though. We all want it whether we admit it or not. This board is filled with individuals (myself included) who say they don't need to be loved and accepted by others, but thats bullshit. You can be an individual and still want somone's love. The problem arises when you want EVERYONE'S love. We all want someone to be there with us (or for us) when the shit hits the fan. If nothing else, we want someone to laugh with us about it after it's over.I feel one of the biggest problems with love comes out of this. People, in their desparate search for love and acceptance, go looking for love. They so want and so need someone like that in their life that they go looking for that person. You have to let them come into your life. You have to be perceptive though. Get your head out of your ass and look around, but mostly just be patient.

On a related note, I find that people have a twisted perception of what love is. Some people think that if you find the perfect mate, you will instantly be happy. The storm clouds will clear and you'll see blue skys through the tears in your eyes! Bull shit. Love is hard. Love is work. One thing people need to realize is that the perfect girl (or guy) doesn't necessarily mean the perfect relationship. Both people in a relationship have baggage. They come into the relationship with certain issues they need to work out. Personally, I have trust issues. This is something I've acknowledged, and something I'm working on. People need to realize that they have problems, they have baggage, and so does their partner. Love is fucking hard. No one is going to ride in on a white horse and save the day. Hollywood says that's the way it works. Hell, from the time we were kids we've been told that the heavens will part when we meet out one true love. Even though it doesn't work like that, and even though love is hard, it's always worth it. There's nothing like an embrace from a loved one to remind you why you're still putting up with this shit.

That's one point of view anyway.
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Erdrickgr
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:44 pm
Posts: 401
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:52 pm 
 

Fwiw, while this doesn't answer the original post directly, I thought I'd add that some people cannot feel love. However love might be defined or described, there has to be certain chemical changes in your body for it to appear. But some people are built in such a way that they do not have those chemical changes take place to a normal degree (if at all). Generally you'll find this in people who have issues like autism, but it can happen in "regular" people as well. For such people, attachment is as close as they usually come to loving something/someone.

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Avestriel
Butterfly Sister Petunia

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:42 am
Posts: 110
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:45 pm 
 

Leify wrote:
A combination of chemical reactions in the brain.
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Osmium
The Hateful Raven

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:18 am
Posts: 474
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:27 pm 
 

Describing love as a product of chemical reactions is a little reductionist and almost tautological. I don't think anybody, except for religious whackjobs, who are usually wrong about just about everything anyway, denies that biochemistry is fundamental in emotion and motivation. It is an operational dogma of psychology that everything psychological is also biological.

Image

Sternberg's love triangle is the standard psychological model for interpersonal relationships (though others exist). It is quite intuitive since commitment, passion, and intimacy are easily understood as corresponding to mental, emotional, and physical attraction. In most long-term relationships, passion tends to decrease over time while commitment increases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_theory_of_love

wikipedia wrote:
* Nonlove is the absence of all three of Sternberg's components of love.

* Liking/friendship in this case is not used in a trivial sense. Sternberg says that this intimate liking characterizes true friendships, in which a person feels a bondedness, a warmth, and a closeness with another but not intense passion or long-term commitment.

* Infatuated love is often what is felt as "love at first sight". But without the intimacy and the commitment components of love, infatuated love may disappear suddenly.

* Empty love: Sometimes, a stronger love deteriorates into empty love, in which the commitment remains, but the intimacy and passion have died. In cultures in which arranged marriages are common, relationships often begin as empty love and develop into one of the other forms with the passing of time.[citation needed]

* Romantic love: Romantic lovers are bonded emotionally (as in liking) and physically through passionate arousal.

* Companionate love is often found in marriages in which the passion has gone out of the relationship, but a deep affection and commitment remain. Companionate love is generally a personal relation you build with somebody you share your life with, but with no sexual or physical desire. It is stronger than friendship because of the extra element of commitment. The love ideally shared between family members is a form of companionate love, as is the love between deep friends or those who spend a lot of time together in any asexual but friendly relationship.

* Fatuous love can be exemplified by a whirlwind courtship and marriage in which a commitment is motivated largely by passion, without the stabilizing influence of intimacy.

* Consummate love is the complete form of love, representing the ideal relationship toward which many people strive. Of the seven varieties of love, consummate love is theorized to be that love associated with the “perfect couple”. According to Sternberg, such couples will continue to have great sex fifteen years or more into the relationship, they can not imagine themselves happy over the long term with anyone else, they weather their few storms gracefully, and each delight in the relationship with each other.[1] However, Sternberg cautions that maintaining a consummate love may be even harder than achieving it. He stresses the importance of translating the components of love into action. "Without expression," he warns, "even the greatest of loves can die" (1987, p.341). Thus, consummate love may not be permanent. If passion is lost over time, it may change into companionate love.

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Sir_General_Flashman
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:23 am
Posts: 322
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:29 pm 
 

I read a national geographic a while back that said love is a chemical that wears off after a few (18) months, but I don't buy it.
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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 559
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:43 pm 
 

Osmium wrote:

Image



This is the most stupid thing I have ever seen.

As a reference to my statement, I invite you to see the movie "Circle of Dead Poets", in which there is an issue between poetry and mathematics.

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Thorgrim_Honkronte
Imperius Rexxz

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 pm
Posts: 638
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:45 pm 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
This is the most stupid thing I have ever seen.


Care to explain why? It seems rather logical to me.
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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 559
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:48 pm 
 

Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
AurvandiL wrote:
This is the most stupid thing I have ever seen.


Care to explain why? It seems rather logical to me.


That is exactly my point.
Logic has nothing to do with love in my opinion.


Last edited by AurvandiL on Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Osmium
The Hateful Raven

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:18 am
Posts: 474
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:48 pm 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
This is the most stupid thing I have ever seen.

As a reference to my statement, I invite you to see the movie "Circle of Dead Poets", in which there is an issue between poetry and mathematics.


Perhaps you ought to elaborate on why one of the mainstream psychological models of love is "stupid," beyond making an irrelevant reference to some film I can't find on IMDB.

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Osmium
The Hateful Raven

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:18 am
Posts: 474
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:51 pm 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
That is exactly my point.
Logic has nothing to do with love in my opinion.


But logic is necessary for the scientific study of love. Have you completely misunderstood the intent behind posting that? We are currently having a discussion about love. We are not actually in love. Therefore, we should apply logic to the discussion. If I ever fall in love with you, I'll make sure to leave logic at the door, but I'm afraid we're not quite there yet.

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Thorgrim_Honkronte
Imperius Rexxz

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 pm
Posts: 638
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:51 pm 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
AurvandiL wrote:
This is the most stupid thing I have ever seen.


Care to explain why? It seems rather logical to me.


That is exactly my point.
Logic has nothing to do with love in my opinion.


Perhaps you'd care to back up your ascertation that logic has nothing to do with love, instead of calling something that is actively trying to prove and quantify a very human emotion with scientifical means stupid. Your statement here is the one displaying weaker intelligence, not the "triangle".
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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 559
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:52 pm 
 

Osmium wrote:
AurvandiL wrote:
This is the most stupid thing I have ever seen.

As a reference to my statement, I invite you to see the movie "Circle of Dead Poets", in which there is an issue between poetry and mathematics.


Perhaps you ought to elaborate on why one of the mainstream psychological models of love is "stupid," beyond making an irrelevant reference to some film I can't find on IMDB.


Two phrases of utter failure: mainstream, and IMDB.

Being a mainstream and generally accepted model doesn't make it true or valid.
Because you can't find this movie on IMDB doesn't mean it's a bad movie and irrelevant quote.

I was referring to love (as poetry) not being something calculated and logical.

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Osmium
The Hateful Raven

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:18 am
Posts: 474
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:59 pm 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
That is exactly my point.
Logic has nothing to do with love in my opinion.


But logic is necessary for the scientific study of love. Have you completely misunderstood the intent behind posting that? We are currently having a discussion about love. We are not actually in love. Therefore, we should apply logic to the discussion. If I ever fall in love with you, I'll make sure to leave logic at the door, but I'm afraid we're not quite there yet.

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Thorgrim_Honkronte
Imperius Rexxz

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 pm
Posts: 638
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:00 pm 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
AurvandiL wrote:
This is the most stupid thing I have ever seen.


Care to explain why? It seems rather logical to me.


That is exactly my point.
Logic has nothing to do with love in my opinion.


Perhaps you'd care to back up your assertion that logic has nothing to do with love, instead of calling something that is actively trying to prove and quantify a very human emotion with scientifical means stupid. Your statement here is the one displaying weaker intelligence, not the "triangle".
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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 559
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:04 pm 
 

Osmium wrote:
AurvandiL wrote:
That is exactly my point.
Logic has nothing to do with love in my opinion.


But logic is necessary for the scientific study of love. Have you completely misunderstood the intent behind posting that? We are currently having a discussion about love. We are not actually in love. Therefore, we should apply logic to the discussion. If I ever fall in love with you, I'll make sure to leave logic at the door, but I'm afraid we're not quite there yet.


Hopefully not. :)

Are we really trying to understand love as a logic pattern?
If yes, I think it is useless. How and why would you want to quantify the unquantifiable?
I do not really get how you can accept that such a nebulous concept should be dissected and explained rationnally...

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Leify
A Whisper of Death

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:54 am
Posts: 730
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:10 pm 
 

I think the illogical nature of love could be argued for in the sense that human beings are selfish by nature, and caring for others is as much something instilled in us as it is, in our most animalistic shades, a form of chemical attraction.
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HighPlainsDrifter
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:00 pm
Posts: 252
Location: U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:20 pm 
 

An old teacher of mine crammed this definition down all our throats back in school...
Love is the denial of one's self for the good of another.
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Avestriel
Butterfly Sister Petunia

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:42 am
Posts: 110
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:21 pm 
 

Everything is logic. Even feelings. Those who don't see logic in feelings are either too in love (no pun intended) with the idea of love being this passional, mysterious and illogical monster that cannot be controlled or are just blind.
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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 559
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:21 pm 
 

HighPlainsDrifter wrote:
An old teacher of mine crammed this definition down all our throats back in school...
Love is the denial of one's self for the good of another.

That's pretty cool.

Avestriel wrote:
Everything is logic. Even feelings. Those who don't see logic in feelings are either too in love (no pun intended) with the idea of love being this passional, mysterious and illogical monster that cannot be controlled or are just blind.


Not in love. My eyesight is poor, but I am rather lucid. I just don't see logical patterns in the elaboration of love.

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MikeyC
Official Greeter of Broken Hills

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
Posts: 14211
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:33 pm 
 

blackblood666 wrote:
It's hard to say exactly what love is though. We all want it whether we admit it or not. This board is filled with individuals (myself included) who say they don't need to be loved and accepted by others, but thats bullshit. You can be an individual and still want somone's love.


I very much agree with that.

I'm unsure whether I have ever felt love for another girl, but I have been close. Close enough for it to start breaking my heart. :( Trying to explain in words what I was exactly feeling is very difficult. Needless to say, I didn't like it. It was depressing me and killing me emotionally, so I had to take the hard stance of trying to just let it go. I'm over her now, but it was a long and treacherous process.

Love for a person you're attracted to is different to love of anything else. I could say, "man, I love this album." It wouldn't mean I love it to the point of attraction - it's just an expression.

Furthermore: There are other people I love, but wouldn't have a relationship with. Yet I still try to make these people happy. I have given them expensive presents, and on occasion a lot of money, just to see them happy, because I love them, and I expect nothing in return.

I guess love has a lot of meanings, but the attraction-love is the most extreme. And as a matter of fact, I hate it. I hate the feeling of longing and the depressing feelings that accompany it. As much as I crave female attention and their love, I don't want to feel that anymore. It kills me.
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Leify
A Whisper of Death

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:54 am
Posts: 730
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:41 pm 
 

MikeyC wrote:
As much as I crave female attention and their love, I don't want to feel that anymore. It kills me.


I'm sure you needn't worry. Half the males on MA seem willing to let you be the pitcher. o_O
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MikeyC
Official Greeter of Broken Hills

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
Posts: 14211
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:43 pm 
 

Leify wrote:
MikeyC wrote:
As much as I crave female attention and their love, I don't want to feel that anymore. It kills me.


I'm sure you needn't worry. Half the males on MA seem willing to let you be the pitcher. o_O


What I meant is that I want females to give me affection and love and the like, but I don't want to feel love (or its equivalent) to them, because it's been killing me inside out.

And I don't want the males. :)
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Cruciphage
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:41 am
Posts: 671
Location: Standing right behind you
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:47 pm 
 

blackblood666 wrote:
Seriously though, I feel that love is when doing something to make someone else happy makes you happy in turn.

One thing many people don't seem to realize is that love, generally speaking, is measured not by how much you're willing to give but by how much you're willing to give up. This could be a symptom of immaturity, as children first experience love in the form of their parents endlessly doing things for them.

RedMisanthrope wrote:
Is it a true, spiritual connection between two people? An animal instinct buried beneath morallity and human perception?

Love begins as a vague attraction, either physical or mental, which intensifies over time based on a combination of the physical and mental. The two driving forces are the biological urge to procreate and the communal, companionship-driven nature of our species. What we're talking about when we talk about love (ha ha) is an aggrandized preference for someone.

As the two lovebirds think about and invest ever greater amounts of emotion in each other, their spiritual energies become intertwined. Some would argue that this process speeds up if sexual intercourse is involved. This can account for the "psychic connection" some of us feel with our companions (and, to a lesser extent, our close friends).

I don't think "true" love is something which is just there between people. The degree of attraction you initially feel toward someone is guided by personal prejudices and the circumstances of your first encounter. By the time one of my previous relationships ended, I was certainly in love with the girl but that took a long time to develop. Love itself isn't necessarily "hard" or "work," but it does fade without the acceptance that sometimes it might be one or both of those words.

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Avestriel
Butterfly Sister Petunia

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:42 am
Posts: 110
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:49 pm 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
Not in love. My eyesight is poor, but I am rather lucid. I just don't see logical patterns in the elaboration of love.

First of all we need to make clear what IS love and what ISN'T love. Once you figure that out, you will be left with the root of all of these phenomena, and will understand not only where they come from, how they're created but also how they work and how to control them. All of this requires long and sincere meditation and actual expectation. If you don't want to see logic on things, you won't see them no matter how much you think and meditate. The same system can be applied with almost every aspect of the human mind and behaviour.

Maybe this is too existencialist for you, lemme tell you this: It's better not to see the logic on these subjects, it's really depressing to see how nothing is as especial or divine as we are thought they are. You're better off like this, you'll be a much happier person than me. I hope this doesn't sound like I think I know better than anyone.
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Cjk10000
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:20 pm
Posts: 26
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:12 pm 
 

Osmium wrote:
Describing love as a product of chemical reactions is a little reductionist and almost tautological. I don't think anybody, except for religious whackjobs, who are usually wrong about just about everything anyway, denies that biochemistry is fundamental in emotion and motivation. It is an operational dogma of psychology that everything psychological is also biological.

Tbh, it is chemical interactions, and physical quantam works. Everything can be broken down to the smallest piece, and we can use the vectors + energies knowledge to find out exactly what they are going to cause in our brains, and then sum up the results.

If it is not quantifiable at the most smallest level, then that means a supernatural force would be at work (in some cases, one would believe in a soul and God).
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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:13 pm 
 

Don't persuade yourself I am a naïve person.
I am pretty analytic when it comes to behaviours and people. But love is still something, somewhat, "sacred". And I don't see the point in tarnishing this image with cold and scientific biological explanations.

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Avestriel
Butterfly Sister Petunia

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:42 am
Posts: 110
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:27 pm 
 

AurvandiL wrote:
Don't persuade yourself I am a naïve person.
I am pretty analytic when it comes to behaviours and people. But love is still something, somewhat, "sacred".

I didn't mean naïve, I ment... normal.

AurvandiL wrote:
And I don't see the point in tarnishing this image with cold and scientific biological explanations.

That's why I said you're better off not seeing the logic in these things. The fact that you still take love as something somewhat "sacred" proves that you're a better human than me.
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thomash
Metal Philosopher

Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:31 pm
Posts: 1713
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:31 pm 
 

It seems obvious to me that any form of love is merely the identification of the loved with the lover. This means that, to love something, a person extends his own self-love toward that object and changes his concept of self in order to accommodate what he loves. For example, if I love someone, it is because I no longer feel the same sense of differentiation between myself and that person. Thus, all love is really just self-love. You don't actually love another person or thing insofar as you think of that object as being "other." Love cannot be truly altruistic since it is rooted in the ego.

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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 559
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:33 pm 
 

Avestriel wrote:
AurvandiL wrote:
Don't persuade yourself I am a naïve person.
I am pretty analytic when it comes to behaviours and people. But love is still something, somewhat, "sacred".

I didn't mean naïve, I ment... normal.

AurvandiL wrote:
And I don't see the point in tarnishing this image with cold and scientific biological explanations.

That's why I said you're better off not seeing the logic in these things. The fact that you still take love as something somewhat "sacred" proves that you're a better human than me.


I am not normal (not saying I am superior or whatever), I am surely NOT anything near average. But I still consider love as the utopia.

And I don't think there are such thing as a "better human". Oxymoron, no?

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Avestriel
Butterfly Sister Petunia

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:42 am
Posts: 110
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:38 pm 
 

There can be better and worse humans. I consider myself better than Bush but worse than my mother, for example.

[/derailing]
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NeglectedField
Onwards to Camulodunum!

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:19 am
Posts: 1080
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:42 pm 
 

Love is an abstract term I tend to bandy about.
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