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red_blood_inside
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:20 pm
Posts: 485
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:18 am 
 

Svartalf wrote:
Apart from a couple other lefty dinosaurs like Bolivia,and from the posts from S. Americanos here, it looks like he already has, in disdain for him.


I don´t get you, what do you mean by that?
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Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:39 pm 
 

red_blood_inside wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Apart from a couple other lefty dinosaurs like Bolivia,and from the posts from S. Americanos here, it looks like he already has, in disdain for him.


I don´t get you, what do you mean by that?


I mean that much of S. America seems united in the sense that everyone seems sick of Chavez. I'm not S. American, but I'm sure sick of him.

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red_blood_inside
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:20 pm
Posts: 485
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:08 pm 
 

Svartalf wrote:
red_blood_inside wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Apart from a couple other lefty dinosaurs like Bolivia,and from the posts from S. Americanos here, it looks like he already has, in disdain for him.


I don´t get you, what do you mean by that?


I mean that much of S. America seems united in the sense that everyone seems sick of Chavez. I'm not S. American, but I'm sure sick of him.


what I meant with the question is what you sayed about S. Americanos, since I'm one of them :p. If you have the idea that I like Chavez, you're wrong, I think he's a clown, but I also think that the US shoud stay out of this.
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 6469
Location: Fortress Northallerton, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:57 pm 
 

Svartalf wrote:
swineeyedlamb wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
swineeyedlamb wrote:
The_Soul_Punisher wrote:
I dont understand Chavez.He wants to be a second Fidel Castro.


You just did.


Yeah, but he's Fidel Castro with a budget and no meaningful international embargo (for now); in his relationship with Cuba, he's more like the old Soviet Union in that he's now the person bankrolling Cuba's continued, ossified, outdated existence.


Yes, but it's painfully obvious that he wants to be the same figure in transnational Latin culture. Hell, maybe he even thinks he can unite all of Latin America.


Apart from a couple other lefty dinosaurs like Bolivia,and from the posts from S. Americanos here, it looks like he already has, in disdain for him.


well I wouldn't really think the South American's here would really support a socialist government or redistribution of wealth in Colombia as they are wealthy enough to have computers, so I guess they aren't part of the 'impoverished masses'...I'm not sure if that really relates to anything but I think Chavez is far better than most rulers in the world and especially South American as was Castro...*awaits fucking commie comments*

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UnserHeiligeTod
Lagompräst

Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:45 pm
Posts: 1057
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:14 pm 
 

Chavez is being accused in the International Court of funding and supporting FARC with an stimated budget of $300 million dollars. If he is found guilty, he could face a prison sentence, although it is extremely unlikely given his political status; the most likely sentence he may be given is a fine.

Spanish source (couldn't find an English one, sorry):

http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/soyper ... sage/26554

http://www.espectador.com/nota.php?idNota=116388
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DBettino
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 2147
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:21 pm 
 

Columbia may just be on terra firma here. Firstly, they have US support. Secondly, they can explain away their reluctance to alert Ecuadorian authorities about the strike by citing Ecuador's tacit support of terrorism. Thirdly, Chavez is a goon. He's not trusted in the region or in the eyes of the Western 'audience', the latter of which has a noticeable hand in every world conflict.

Now, that's not to say I buy it. There is no doubt in my mind that Ecuador would assent to a temporary military mission to destroy a terrorist organization. Why would they hinder efforts and piss the US off? They have nothing to gain from that. On the other hand, Columbia can strike without warning, have a convenient excuse to do so, and perhaps even use the resulting protest in Ecuador as proof of that nation's recalcitrance to the apprehension of terrorists and the will of the International Community, etc.

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The_Count
Village Idiot

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:04 pm
Posts: 407
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:54 pm 
 

red_blood_inside wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
red_blood_inside wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Apart from a couple other lefty dinosaurs like Bolivia,and from the posts from S. Americanos here, it looks like he already has, in disdain for him.


I don´t get you, what do you mean by that?


I mean that much of S. America seems united in the sense that everyone seems sick of Chavez. I'm not S. American, but I'm sure sick of him.


what I meant with the question is what you sayed about S. Americanos, since I'm one of them :p. If you have the idea that I like Chavez, you're wrong, I think he's a clown, but I also think that the US shoud stay out of this.


Would you feel the same way if Venezuela invaded Columbia and pulled all of South America into war?
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Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
I'd be more than welcome to take on the jihadists. If they think they are the only ones who know how to make home made bombs and use guns... well they know nothing about redneck America.

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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2240
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:30 pm 
 

ANationalAcrobat wrote:
well I wouldn't really think the South American's here would really support a socialist government or redistribution of wealth in Colombia as they are wealthy enough to have computers, so I guess they aren't part of the 'impoverished masses'...I'm not sure if that really relates to anything but I think Chavez is far better than most rulers in the world and especially South American as was Castro...*awaits fucking commie comments*


No "fucking commie" comments from me I'm afraid, just a general perplexity at the heroes people choose and how similar they are to the villains they profess to hate.
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Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:24 am 
 

red_blood_inside wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
red_blood_inside wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Apart from a couple other lefty dinosaurs like Bolivia,and from the posts from S. Americanos here, it looks like he already has, in disdain for him.


I don´t get you, what do you mean by that?


I mean that much of S. America seems united in the sense that everyone seems sick of Chavez. I'm not S. American, but I'm sure sick of him.


what I meant with the question is what you sayed about S. Americanos, since I'm one of them :p. If you have the idea that I like Chavez, you're wrong, I think he's a clown, but I also think that the US shoud stay out of this.


I definitely wouldn't accuse anyone of liking Chavez, least of all you. :) That's not what I was saying at all--merely expressing my hope that he would become more isolated because of this; this doesn't seem to be happening, sadly. As a Norte Americano, I hope the US stays out of it too. And to the person who expressed admiration ofr Chavez, I have to wonder if you wouldn't feel differently if you had to exist under his rule. I don't think you're a commie, I just wonder what you base your admiration for him on. Yes I ended a sentence with a preposition. It's late.

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red_blood_inside
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:20 pm
Posts: 485
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:42 am 
 

The_Count wrote:
Would you feel the same way if Venezuela invaded Columbia and pulled all of South America into war?


What makes you think that the US intervention would prevent that scenario?, in fact, I think if the US is a port of this, war is more probable...
To the guy who sayed that Colombia is not poor becuse they can bauy computers, I hope you were joking or understand that the example is not good at all...
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 6469
Location: Fortress Northallerton, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:44 pm 
 

red_blood_inside wrote:
The_Count wrote:
Would you feel the same way if Venezuela invaded Columbia and pulled all of South America into war?


What makes you think that the US intervention would prevent that scenario?, in fact, I think if the US is a port of this, war is more probable...
To the guy who sayed that Colombia is not poor becuse they can bauy computers, I hope you were joking or understand that the example is not good at all...


I think you understand I said the Colombian's who post here aren't likely to be in poverty as they can afford computers and have free time to spend on MA, I know Colombia and most of SA is very poor thats why I said the South American's who post here wouldn't be likely to support a socialist Colombian government as they aren't impoverished, some of what I say might be difficult to understand due to the language barrier...and I'm certainly not having a go because of anyone being wealthy I enjoy a comfortable existence in the UK.

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The_Count
Village Idiot

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:04 pm
Posts: 407
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:22 pm 
 

red_blood_inside wrote:
The_Count wrote:
Would you feel the same way if Venezuela invaded Columbia and pulled all of South America into war?


What makes you think that the US intervention would prevent that scenario?, in fact, I think if the US is a port of this, war is more probable...
To the guy who sayed that Colombia is not poor becuse they can bauy computers, I hope you were joking or understand that the example is not good at all...


Perhaps I should word myself better, If There were an invasion of Columbia by Venezuela and its allies would YOU want the United States to help?
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Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
I'd be more than welcome to take on the jihadists. If they think they are the only ones who know how to make home made bombs and use guns... well they know nothing about redneck America.

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Svartalf
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am
Posts: 117
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:20 am 
 

The_Count wrote:
red_blood_inside wrote:
The_Count wrote:
Would you feel the same way if Venezuela invaded Columbia and pulled all of South America into war?


What makes you think that the US intervention would prevent that scenario?, in fact, I think if the US is a port of this, war is more probable...
To the guy who sayed that Colombia is not poor becuse they can bauy computers, I hope you were joking or understand that the example is not good at all...


Perhaps I should word myself better, If There were an invasion of Columbia by Venezuela and its allies would YOU want the United States to help?


Not really, but then my brother's in the Navy, so perhaps I'm biased. Looks like Chavez has decided to stop posturing for the moment in any case.

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UnserHeiligeTod
Lagompräst

Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:45 pm
Posts: 1057
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:06 pm 
 

Svartalf wrote:
Not really, but then my brother's in the Navy, so perhaps I'm biased. Looks like Chavez has decided to stop posturing for the moment in any case.

Yes, so it seems anyway. As of yesterday, Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador and Nicaragua have re-established diplomatic relations and all threats of attacks have been withdrawn. Correa (Ecuador's president) has demanded that the secret documents found in Raul Reyes' personal computer be handed to the Ecuatorian authorities though. Oh well. The thread might just as well now be locked.
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SilenceIsConsent
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:46 pm
Posts: 14
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:52 pm 
 

UnserHeiligeTod wrote:
http://www6.comcast.net/news/articles/world/2008/01/25/Venezuela.Colombia/

Things are starting to look a bit grim. Chavez's taken his warmongering with the neighboring countries even further.

Spanish source:

http://www.elhispanonews.com/news.php?nid=5557

I fear for the consequences that may come, now that Colombia has broken all relations with Ecuador and Venezuela. Is war upon South America? Thoughts? Opinions?


Nothing will result of this. Chavez is going to babble on and on and on and on about what he's going to do and how he's going to be such the badass military leader he so wants to be and nothing is going to happen. The international community will not let anything happen. Considering how much humanity is addicted to oil and how much Venezuela has, the last thing we want is for them to go to war with Colombia and cut off their oil supply because we sided with Colombia.

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L_H
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:03 am
Posts: 145
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:36 pm 
 

SilenceIsConsent wrote:
UnserHeiligeTod wrote:
http://www6.comcast.net/news/articles/world/2008/01/25/Venezuela.Colombia/

Things are starting to look a bit grim. Chavez's taken his warmongering with the neighboring countries even further.

Spanish source:

http://www.elhispanonews.com/news.php?nid=5557

I fear for the consequences that may come, now that Colombia has broken all relations with Ecuador and Venezuela. Is war upon South America? Thoughts? Opinions?


Nothing will result of this. Chavez is going to babble on and on and on and on about what he's going to do and how he's going to be such the badass military leader he so wants to be and nothing is going to happen. The international community will not let anything happen. Considering how much humanity is addicted to oil and how much Venezuela has, the last thing we want is for them to go to war with Colombia and cut off their oil supply because we sided with Colombia.


Err, hate to break it to you, but your reply is a tiny little bit after the fact, what with all the parties involved having resolved their differences, agreed to a peaceful solution and re-established normal relations, diplomatic and otherwise ;)

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red_blood_inside
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:20 pm
Posts: 485
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:31 pm 
 

ANationalAcrobat wrote:
red_blood_inside wrote:
The_Count wrote:
Would you feel the same way if Venezuela invaded Columbia and pulled all of South America into war?


What makes you think that the US intervention would prevent that scenario?, in fact, I think if the US is a port of this, war is more probable...
To the guy who sayed that Colombia is not poor becuse they can bauy computers, I hope you were joking or understand that the example is not good at all...


I think you understand I said the Colombian's who post here aren't likely to be in poverty as they can afford computers and have free time to spend on MA, I know Colombia and most of SA is very poor thats why I said the South American's who post here wouldn't be likely to support a socialist Colombian government as they aren't impoverished, some of what I say might be difficult to understand due to the language barrier...and I'm certainly not having a go because of anyone being wealthy I enjoy a comfortable existence in the UK.


UPS, shame on me, I missed the "posting here"part, my mistake...:(


The_Count wrote:
Perhaps I should word myself better, If There were an invasion of Columbia by Venezuela and its allies would YOU want the United States to help?

No, not at all, at least not with troops or military movements, maybe, and just maybe a diplomatic help, but as US is envolved in some theme with Chavez, I wouldn't reccomend that either, just stay away people...
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Juanzero
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:48 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:50 pm 
 

Veddartha wrote:
The minute he crosses the Colombian border he will give the US goverment an excuse to obliterate his ass, something that will make me very happy.

Although I think that the actions of Colombia in Ecuador are indeed a violation to the Estado de Derecho it was a necessary measure in order to decimate the FARC's power. Besides, its a common fact that Ecuador and our good friends of Venezuela have been hiding FARC members in their countries in order to protect them from the Colombian authorities.

This fuckin' latin american dictators think they can do whatever they want and no one has the right to complain; Porfirio Diaz, Rafael Trujillo, the guys from Argentina and that cunt from Guatemala thought the same way and in the end they got screwed. I hope that this is the beginning of the end for that latino cock sucker that is Chavez. Besides, now he doesn't have Castro's help so he will have a harder time opposing to all latin america and the US; maybe Bolivia will be on his side but they are the lamest country on the continent so no one cares.
Colombia didn't violate anything...ecuator president was already entered about that fact...

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Sheytocaru
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:01 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:32 pm 
 

Well, ehmm the last post was of some time ago...so, as much of you must know,the conflict finishend with a hug and shake of hands between Uribe (the colombian president) and Correa,the idiot of Chavez and the fool president of Nicaragua wich name i don't remember right now XD. But really awsome that the international metal community support Colombia (for the posts tht i've readed)

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Knjaz_Milos
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:56 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:37 pm 
 

Sheytocaru wrote:
...the idiot of Chavez and the fool president of Nicaragua wich name i don't remember right now...


I think it's funny that you know for sure that he is a fool, but do not remember his name.
Kind of makes me doubt how unbiased your knowledge of the whole matter is. It certainly shows some of your priorities in getting info on the situation, it's players and their motives.

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Sheytocaru
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:01 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:10 pm 
 

Well, first,his name is Daniel Ortega. Now, i think he's a fool because:
1.He supports Ecuador, also saying that the territory border was violated, when he violated the border with Honduras some years ago to catch some revolutionaris (don't know if the spelling is right,my english is a bit bad), the same situation that Colombia has. So it is some hypocrit, i think
2.I think he just supports Ecuador and Venezuela because he has trouble with Colombia about wich country should have the islands of San Andres and Providencia
Well,maybe i need some more info,but i think that what is here is just fine to think why is he a fool

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Gothbag
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:29 am
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:20 pm 
 

A war in South America is something I fear quite a lot. From one of the most recent wars, the Salvadoran Civil War, the world's most dangerous and powerful gang, the Mara Salvatrucha, was born. I don't think Spain is ready to take in the massive amount of refugees that would probably come here.

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TurboDrinker
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:10 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:50 pm 
 

Chavez is alright, stop bitching, start paying respect. He's the future
for the raped south american people.

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BobSaget
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 34
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:15 pm 
 

TurboDrinker wrote:
Chavez is alright, stop bitching, start paying respect. He's the future
for the raped south american people.


Agreed, Chavez is a great person. Through mitigating Venezuelan poverty by 15 fold, creating national scholasticism, producing a burgeoning health care system.. Certainly is better than the systematic placement of a new dictator every decade by the US and other western juggernauts.

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Osmium
The Hateful Raven

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:18 am
Posts: 2521
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:46 pm 
 

BobSaget wrote:
Agreed, Chavez is a great person. Through mitigating Venezuelan poverty by 15 fold, creating national scholasticism, producing a burgeoning health care system.. Certainly is better than the systematic placement of a new dictator every decade by the US and other western juggernauts.


Foreign Affairs has a different view:

Quote:
Summary: Even critics of Hugo Chávez tend to concede that he has made helping the poor his top priority. But in fact, Chávez's government has not done any more to fight poverty than past Venezuelan governments, and his much-heralded social programs have had little effect. A close look at the evidence reveals just how much Chávez's "revolution" has hurt Venezuela's economy -- and that the poor are hurting most of all.

FRANCISCO RODRÍGUEZ, Assistant Professor of Economics and Latin American Studies at Wesleyan University, was Chief Economist of the Venezuelan National Assembly from 2000 to 2004.

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MushroomStamp
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:07 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Helsinki, Finland
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:00 pm 
 

Quote:
The change can be broadly characterized as having four basic dimensions. First, the size of the state has increased dramatically. Government expenditures, which represented only 18.8 percent of GDP in 1999, now account for 29.4 percent of GDP, and the government has nationalized key sectors, such as electricity and telecommunications. Second, the setting of prices and wages has become highly regulated through a web of restrictions in place since 2002 ranging from rigid price and exchange controls to a ban on laying off workers. Third, there has been a significant deterioration in the security of property rights, as the government has moved to expropriate landholdings and private firms on an ad hoc basis, appealing to both political and economic motives. Fourth, the government has carried out a complete overhaul of social policy, replacing existing programs with a set of high-profile initiatives -- known as the misiones, or missions -- aimed at specific problems, such as illiteracy or poor health provision, in poor neighborhoods.


Helper of the poor indeed... As long as the Venezuelan economy keeps getting more and more protectionist and inward-turned, there is no long-term hope of the poor arising from their poverty. The president can (and does) try to keep his popularity up with expensive government programs, but those amount to nothing if the basic foundation of a healthy economy, free business (and everyone's right to buy, sell, own property!), is stagnant and decaying.
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
Posts: 2563
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:07 pm 
 

Chavez needs to get his head out of his ass. He just looks like an old-world Communist that feels like fighting long-ended wars. I think he has a similar personal view as Bush in that he has an ego that being a war hero leader is attractive, but in the long run, neither will be remembered fondly in that way.


The United States can't afford to go to war anywhere else right now. I get so annoyed hearing people talk about it like we're really going to attack Iran or North Korea in this continued war on terror. The money isn't there. This country is heading into a recession. The national debt is beyond ridiculous. On top of which, our forces are spread too thin as is. We have troops in South Korea, Germany, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, and other places.

We can't fight in any more places without a collapse in the American infrastructure or some other calamity befalling the country. Another Hurricaine Katrina or flood crisis in the midwest, another massive earthquake in California, or a series of "super tornadoes." It won't take much to cripple this country at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're paying the soldiers a fortune for this crap, especially since the war in now essentially pointless. I can use the money.

But there won't be any left for the next dipshit administration to wage any more wars. McCain's "hundred more years in Iraq" will be impossible. Obama's war on Iran will be impossible. Clinton's insane health care plans and whatever war she wants to get into will be impossible.

Iran and North Korea have large, professional armies. Many in South America are fiercely anti-United States. These are headaches we can't afford. And in order to pay for these wars, enlistment costs will skyrocket in order to convince more people to sign up, as will deployment costs for having to deploy troops to too many places too often.

It's high time countries and people learn to fight their own damn battles without the United States, just as it's high time the US start focusing on internal problems rather than trying to help out all the people who don't deserve it and don't want it.
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