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deathcorpse
Super Cres at Best

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:36 pm 
 

Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
Yeah I suppose my mind can change. However I honestly see nothing wrong with it at all. It's about gauging their intellectual and emotional maturity. My parents obviously felt I could handle the material at that age, and they were right.


Yeah and look how YOU turned out :lol: Just kidding. So when you showed your parents the cover of SCREAM BLOODY GORE at 11, they gave you the horns and the thumbs up? Did they listen to it with you?

Anyway, I see something wrong in the level of maturity though. Of course, perhaps when my son turns 11 he will be ready but I doubt it.

If you want to gauge intellectual maturity, why not get them started on some Coltrane, Miles, or classical music instead?

I don't agree that a child at 11 years old is ready for THE EXORCIST.

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Thorgrim_Honkronte
Imperius Rexxz

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:39 pm 
 

Haha, I saw The Exorcist when I was 8, even my mother saw it at a young age when it came out. Nothing really detrimental came from it, to be sure. And you're right about the classical music, I listen to a lot of it, so that will obviously factor in. What I'm saying is, if you're sure your child can handle the material on a personal level, that is, to not be affected psychologically by it (read: having intense nightmares or real morbid thoughts influenced byt it) then there is not a problem in it.

As I said, I was ready for Death's most brutal album, and I never thought of it as anything more than music. It's a case by case basis., really.
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deathcorpse
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:44 pm 
 

Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
Haha, I saw The Exorcist when I was 8, even my mother saw it at a young age when it came out. Nothing really detrimental came from it, to be sure. And you're right about the classical music, I listen to a lot of it, so that will obviously factor in. What I'm saying is, if you're sure your child can handle the material on a personal level, that is, to not be affected psychologically by it (read: having intense nightmares or real morbid thoughts influenced byt it) then there is not a problem in it.

As I said, I was ready for Death's most brutal album, and I never thought of it as anything more than music. It's a case by case basis., really.


Well I saw the EXORCIST at 11 and I had nightmares about it for years. I also saw FRIDAY THE 13th when it came out in the theatres WITH my parents. I think the reason I personally had morbid thoughts about it is because I have an extremely creative and over-active imagination.

I'm not saying he won't be able to necessarily handle it, but he may not understand what it really means. If you take horror and these other things at entertainment level and understand that it's only a movie and it's an art form, that's one thing. But most kids don't understand that, they take it for real even though you might tell them it isn't.

I surely must have freaked out my sister for life since she is 4 years younger with KISS, LAND OF THE LOST and SLEESTAKS, CHILDREN SHOULDN'T PLAY WITH DEAD THINGS, etc.

I just want to make sure he's ready and not expose him to something he's going to take too literally, and most of all understand how it came to be and not just that it JUST IS.

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Thorgrim_Honkronte
Imperius Rexxz

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:46 pm 
 

Yes, that is a very good point, you're right about that. It is important for a child to be able to distinguish fact from fiction, especially when the medium can be deceivingly real for a young kid.
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deathcorpse
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:51 pm 
 

Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
Yes, that is a very good point, you're right about that. It is important for a child to be able to distinguish fact from fiction, especially when the medium can be deceivingly real for a young kid.


If you take the literal meaning of THE EXORCIST to heart with no guidance at all...that can be some serious mindblowing shit. I had no one to guide me...but that doesn't mean that I didn't love it!

If you listen to death metal/black metal on the surface, maybe it just sounds like monsters but it's so much more deeper than that. There are messages there. I don't mean to sound like a PMRC advocate, I'm not; but I'm just careful. I'm even careful about what t-shirts I wear around him. I won't wear anything horrifying around him. Perhaps he can "take it" seeing a picture of Cheryl with blood coming out of her mouth from THE EVIL DEAD...but why take that chance now?

He'll let me know when he's ready and then I'll be there to guide him. I'm not forcing it on him but he's a smart and inquisitive kid...he already knows a bit "what's up".

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Thorgrim_Honkronte
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:57 pm 
 

Forcing many things on a child is wrong, I think. When I say I would allow a kid of my own to purchase a death metal record, I don't mean that I would suggest it to him. First and foremost, I would only allow it if I was sure he could handle it, as I've mentioned before. Secondly, if he/she decided that sort of thing is interesting, then I would ok it if they really wanted it. Same goes for movies and all of that. You simply can't control every aspect of a kid's life though, and they are bound to find some of these things out on their own. My mother actually when she watched The Exorcist, she did so without her parents knowledge. It scared the shit out of her but it brought a new experience. I think most people past a certain age can really understand what's happening on a movie screen isn't necessarily real. This is what I've observed from seeing kids grow up, little cousins, children of friends, etc. It all seems to happen around 6-8 years old, too.
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deathcorpse
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:02 pm 
 

Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
Forcing many things on a child is wrong, I think. When I say I would allow a kid of my own to purchase a death metal record, I don't mean that I would suggest it to him. First and foremost, I would only allow it if I was sure he could handle it, as I've mentioned before. Secondly, if he/she decided that sort of thing is interesting, then I would ok it if they really wanted it. Same goes for movies and all of that. You simply can't control every aspect of a kid's life though, and they are bound to find some of these things out on their own. My mother actually when she watched The Exorcist, she did so without her parents knowledge. It scared the shit out of her but it brought a new experience. I think most people past a certain age can really understand what's happening on a movie screen isn't necessarily real. This is what I've observed from seeing kids grow up, little cousins, children of friends, etc. It all seems to happen around 6-8 years old, too.


True, but he won't be seeing that sort of movie at least under my supervision until I think he's ready...and IMO that's around 13. It may change, but I doubt it. If he comes to me and tells me he already saw it, I will want to know his thoughts and how it affected him...and I will explain to him that it's only a movie and not reality. But sometimes fantasy can be more shocking and mindblowing then reality.

To me, I'm not shocked at violence or war, but I'm shocked by the inner realms and fantasy that is created within the fictional world. Maybe that's because I saw the whole Vietnam war shit go on in the news on TV and my parents didn't sensor it...or maybe I thought that reality wasn't scary. Still imagery can be frightening, either real or not.

Again, he won't be hearing BURZUM from me unless I think he's ready. He won't hear it in the car while we are driving somewhere, like here kid check this OUT...

Either or, I'm not fueling the fire :lol:

My original point was that I won't be the one exposing it to him or forcing it on him. So in that we both agree.

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orionmetalhead
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:54 pm 
 

deathcorpse wrote:
orionmetalhead wrote:
It all depends on how mature the child is. A kid who has a pension for killing birds or burning cats alive should probably not be given added violent material until that is sorted out. A child who can listen to CC or Mayhem or whatever and enjoy it for the musical aspect and the artistic merits should be able to delve fully into the art.

As long as there is open communication for the parents to gauge how the child is reacting to what he experiences, there should be no need for censorship. Parents should be able to explain to their children and teach them right and wrong.


Most of the time if a kid is doing that, it's because of problems at home or some trauma that happened to him/her.

I don't think a child that is under 13 has any business listening to Mayhem or CC or anything like that. No kid that is 10 years old understands the musical aspect/artistic merit of an art form such as black/death or horror.

If I heard CC at 10 years old I would have nightmares. Why add fuel to the fire. When they are ready though, you'll know.


I dont think that setting an individual age accomplishes anything. If they discover it on their own and want to listen to it, who am I to deny them? I see my children growing up with the more extreme stuff around them through life because of me. I think that growing up with them and watching how I handle myself would have more of an impact than the music. You have to let your kids grow naturally and not be the grand dictator of when and what they can begin to listen to.
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deathcorpse
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:59 pm 
 

orionmetalhead wrote:
deathcorpse wrote:
orionmetalhead wrote:
It all depends on how mature the child is. A kid who has a pension for killing birds or burning cats alive should probably not be given added violent material until that is sorted out. A child who can listen to CC or Mayhem or whatever and enjoy it for the musical aspect and the artistic merits should be able to delve fully into the art.

As long as there is open communication for the parents to gauge how the child is reacting to what he experiences, there should be no need for censorship. Parents should be able to explain to their children and teach them right and wrong.


Most of the time if a kid is doing that, it's because of problems at home or some trauma that happened to him/her.

I don't think a child that is under 13 has any business listening to Mayhem or CC or anything like that. No kid that is 10 years old understands the musical aspect/artistic merit of an art form such as black/death or horror.

If I heard CC at 10 years old I would have nightmares. Why add fuel to the fire. When they are ready though, you'll know.


I dont think that setting an individual age accomplishes anything. If they discover it on their own and want to listen to it, who am I to deny them? I see my children growing up with the more extreme stuff around them through life because of me. I think that growing up with them and watching how I handle myself would have more of an impact than the music. You have to let your kids grow naturally and not be the grand dictator of when and what they can begin to listen to.


I agree, but perhaps you didn't get that I won't be the one introducing them to it at an early age. If there is an interest; that's up to them. Again anything I found out about I found out on my own and through friends, not from my parents. My son already knows what an Ozzy Osbourne is, and what a Gene Simmons blowing fire is, so I'm sure he's on the right track. If he expresses interest though, I will guide him.

I wish though that I could have gone to my parents and talked to them about my findings, but I knew I couldn't. There won't be that issue though with my kids.

I think it's healthy for kids to have certain boundaries about what they can and can't do.

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EOS
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Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:25 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:06 pm 
 

I think there should be some obvious restrictions on my child if I were ever to become a father. That is, no pornography (especially around me and until he is at least 15 years old--although I know the legal age is 18 where I live), no hard drugs, no cigs, no alcohol, and who knows what else. I'm not worried at all about what kind of music he or she listens to. I don't care if it's too rough or too wimpy so long at it doesn't have excessive cussing or very graphic stuff like Waco Jesus or something. Personally, it's not something I'm very worried about. I've played Death Metal around my younger brother when he was 6 years old... doubt it affected him in either a positive or adverse way. Besides, I listen to way more music than just metal. I don't like "cursing" for some reason. I wouldn't want my child to listen to or watch something with a lot of cursing because kids have a tendency to want to immitate that language and I find it annoying. I think its use should be minimal, if not totally nil.

When it comes to video games and movies, I'm quite fine with them as long as they don't overdo gore and violence. I don't think it makes much a difference. If you ask me, it comes down more to your personality and mental state. My younger brother is 9 right now, we play Resident Evil 4 quite often and he doesn't seem like he wants to blow someone's head off anymore than before he played the game. I think I've had much more of an influence over him. I'm very mellow and he's not one to want trouble--he's less agressive than most kids I've observed.

However, if you were to ask how does one set such limits, I personally don't know. I suppose it comes somewhat intiuitively, with experience over time, and from society as a whole. I know I wouldn't want my child to have sex until he or she is 16 because from what I know, kids who are younger just aren't mature enough, both physically or mentally. I'm 18 but I can't picture myself having sex when I was 14 (and indeed I did not have sex when I was that age). My younger brother is probably going to have a little sex-ed next year sometime during the day and he'll only be 10. I understand about learning about male and female anatomy, but I don't think the concept of sex itself is quite appropriate for children that young. They're much too "concerned" with other things besides. I think the health/sex-ed class when I had it as a freshmen in high school makes a lot of sense. When it comes to all serious concepts, I don't think they should be rushed or put off indefinitely. It's good to find a happy medium.

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Sir_General_Flashman
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:23 pm 
 

It all depends on how it's exposed to you.

For example, I knew about violence when I was two, but not through the media. My dad told me about history in it's graphic detail, but I learned about it in context, not in just mindlessly killing cops in video games. Even then, if time on the game is limited and the kid isn't crazy or very young(under 10) there is no problem.
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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:52 am 
 

I think parents can be overly cautious sometimes.

When I was maybe 6 or 7 I wanted to watch Jurassic Park, so my mother watched it first to "test the waters" as it were, then told me that she thought it was way to scary for someone my age.

Not long after, we visited a friend's place and they were watching it on video, and I sat down to watch it too. I wasn't scared at all, I thought it was awesome.

I don't think a kid just hearing some death metal is going to be traumatized unless maybe some dick of a sibling tells them the vocalist is the monster that lives under the bed, provided they are old enough to understand that it's all pretend.

Hell, I was playing DooM when I was 8.
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saintinhell
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:03 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
I think parents can be overly cautious sometimes.

When I was maybe 6 or 7 I wanted to watch Jurassic Park, so my mother watched it first to "test the waters" as it were, then told me that she thought it was way to scary for someone my age.


Phew, thank God!!! My parents took me along to see JP and Lost World both on the big screen..awesome. :D

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:

I don't think a kid just hearing some death metal is going to be traumatized unless maybe some dick of a sibling tells them the vocalist is the monster that lives under the bed, provided they are old enough to understand that it's all pretend.



Nah, not that, monster part is OK, they will want to know about cunt, cum and other 'scum'...you really don't need to at that age, sure kids grow up faster these days (or so it seems) but they can bloody well wait until their teens for their porn, for their death metal, etc etc.

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:10 am 
 

saintinhell wrote:
The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
I think parents can be overly cautious sometimes.

When I was maybe 6 or 7 I wanted to watch Jurassic Park, so my mother watched it first to "test the waters" as it were, then told me that she thought it was way to scary for someone my age.


Phew, thank God!!! My parents took me along to see JP and Lost World both on the big screen..awesome. :D

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:

I don't think a kid just hearing some death metal is going to be traumatized unless maybe some dick of a sibling tells them the vocalist is the monster that lives under the bed, provided they are old enough to understand that it's all pretend.



Nah, not that, monster part is OK, they will want to know about cunt, cum and other 'scum'...you really don't need to at that age, sure kids grow up faster these days (or so it seems) but they can bloody well wait until their teens for their porn, for their death metal, etc etc.


Well, I obviously wouldn't show them the lyrics or play any extreme metal with clearly audible vocals. I meant songs that have their inappropriate content nicely covered by indecipherable growls.

Lyric booklets and album covers stay well out of reach until they're teenagers.
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saintinhell
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:16 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Well, I obviously wouldn't show them the lyrics or play any extreme metal with clearly audible vocals. I meant songs that have their inappropriate content nicely covered by indecipherable growls.

Lyric booklets and album covers stay well out of reach until they're teenagers.


Won't work, my friend. Curiosity is the name of the beast. All they have to do is type the name of the song and google it, lo and behold, an exciting new world is theirs to relish. :lol: I really do go with deathcorpse on the subject of playing death metal; better not to do it until the kid is old enough to understand it's all one kickass joke...considering that some of our kvlt metal brethren have yet to come to that realization, how would a 6-year old understand? :lol:

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:21 am 
 

Well, the simple answer is, don't tell them the name of the song or the name of the band.
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saintinhell
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:23 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Well, the simple answer is, don't tell them the name of the song or the name of the band.


Which is as good as not playing, except that they are gonna pester you about it all the time and one day you might just blurt it out...a silly parent-child conflict over something like music?? Not recommended.

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:26 am 
 

Probably.

Still, I don't play much gore-based metal anyway, and a kid would probably be able to find out about extreme metal pretty easily just by searching up Black Sabbath or Iron Maiden on the internet.
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saintinhell
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:28 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Probably.

Still, I don't play much gore-based metal anyway, and a kid would probably be able to find out about extreme metal pretty easily just by searching up Black Sabbath or Iron Maiden on the internet.


Well, you can't stop that and I would not recommend making internet taboo or something at home, that's a no-no. If he finds out on his own, then you take him by your side and explain patiently the dos and don'ts of it..and you pull out your own collection so that he understands that he's not really doing something dangerous, unlike what his classmates probably told him.

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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:36 am 
 

Precisely. I wouldn't specifically TRY to show the kid extreme metal, I just wouldn't freak out if he heard it.
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deathcorpse
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:24 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Precisely. I wouldn't specifically TRY to show the kid extreme metal, I just wouldn't freak out if he heard it.


That's my point=parental guidance.

I just dropped my son to daycare and he was looking up at the bulletin board of big sized tooths cut out of white construction paper they all made and he says to the teacher "what are those, ghosts?"

It's happening already!!!! :lol:

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TheBlackPlague
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:01 pm 
 

I think censorship is parents' way to sweep touchy issues under the rug and hope for the best while not actually dealing with it. They also fail to realize that simply talking with your kids is one of the best ways to deal with things.

I'm going to work my ass off to make sure that my children know the difference between reality and fantasy when it comes to things like video games and music. And like others have said, the more mature things will be dealt with as they come.
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OzzyApu
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:03 pm 
 

Ditto what TheBlackPlague said.
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FasterDisaster
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:50 pm 
 

Parental controlling is necessary for one reason: to put the parents responsible FIRST. The blame cannot shift if you get a blank look when they get asked, "did you set parental controls?"

But parents censoring every little thing is a big no-no.

EDIT: I was referring more to censorship in media.
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ForNaught
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:03 pm 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
Parental controlling is necessary for one reason: to put the parents responsible FIRST. The blame cannot shift if you get a blank look when they get asked, "did you set parental controls?"


That's a strange idea. Don't you think that parents are first and foremost concerned with what their child is exposed to, and not whose fault it is?

it makes me sad to have to say that TheBlackPlague's words ring true. A lot of people seem content to leave children's education in the more... shall we say, sordid side of life up to the schools, and more often, the playground. It certainly doesn't seem like the right way of doing things to me, despite its awkwardness.

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Lichspawn
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:18 am 
 

deathcorpse wrote:
Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
Forcing many things on a child is wrong, I think. When I say I would allow a kid of my own to purchase a death metal record, I don't mean that I would suggest it to him. First and foremost, I would only allow it if I was sure he could handle it, as I've mentioned before. Secondly, if he/she decided that sort of thing is interesting, then I would ok it if they really wanted it. Same goes for movies and all of that. You simply can't control every aspect of a kid's life though, and they are bound to find some of these things out on their own. My mother actually when she watched The Exorcist, she did so without her parents knowledge. It scared the shit out of her but it brought a new experience. I think most people past a certain age can really understand what's happening on a movie screen isn't necessarily real. This is what I've observed from seeing kids grow up, little cousins, children of friends, etc. It all seems to happen around 6-8 years old, too.


True, but he won't be seeing that sort of movie at least under my supervision until I think he's ready...and IMO that's around 13. It may change, but I doubt it. If he comes to me and tells me he already saw it, I will want to know his thoughts and how it affected him...and I will explain to him that it's only a movie and not reality. But sometimes fantasy can be more shocking and mindblowing then reality.

To me, I'm not shocked at violence or war, but I'm shocked by the inner realms and fantasy that is created within the fictional world. Maybe that's because I saw the whole Vietnam war shit go on in the news on TV and my parents didn't sensor it...or maybe I thought that reality wasn't scary. Still imagery can be frightening, either real or not.

Again, he won't be hearing BURZUM from me unless I think he's ready. He won't hear it in the car while we are driving somewhere, like here kid check this OUT...

Either or, I'm not fueling the fire :lol:

My original point was that I won't be the one exposing it to him or forcing it on him. So in that we both agree.

Why wouldn't you let your kid listen to Burzum. If I had a kid, Burzum would be among the little metal that I would be exposing him/her at a young age.

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vondskapens_makt
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:22 pm 
 

Lichspawn wrote:
deathcorpse wrote:
Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
Forcing many things on a child is wrong, I think. When I say I would allow a kid of my own to purchase a death metal record, I don't mean that I would suggest it to him. First and foremost, I would only allow it if I was sure he could handle it, as I've mentioned before. Secondly, if he/she decided that sort of thing is interesting, then I would ok it if they really wanted it. Same goes for movies and all of that. You simply can't control every aspect of a kid's life though, and they are bound to find some of these things out on their own. My mother actually when she watched The Exorcist, she did so without her parents knowledge. It scared the shit out of her but it brought a new experience. I think most people past a certain age can really understand what's happening on a movie screen isn't necessarily real. This is what I've observed from seeing kids grow up, little cousins, children of friends, etc. It all seems to happen around 6-8 years old, too.


True, but he won't be seeing that sort of movie at least under my supervision until I think he's ready...and IMO that's around 13. It may change, but I doubt it. If he comes to me and tells me he already saw it, I will want to know his thoughts and how it affected him...and I will explain to him that it's only a movie and not reality. But sometimes fantasy can be more shocking and mindblowing then reality.

To me, I'm not shocked at violence or war, but I'm shocked by the inner realms and fantasy that is created within the fictional world. Maybe that's because I saw the whole Vietnam war shit go on in the news on TV and my parents didn't sensor it...or maybe I thought that reality wasn't scary. Still imagery can be frightening, either real or not.

Again, he won't be hearing BURZUM from me unless I think he's ready. He won't hear it in the car while we are driving somewhere, like here kid check this OUT...

Either or, I'm not fueling the fire :lol:

My original point was that I won't be the one exposing it to him or forcing it on him. So in that we both agree.

Why wouldn't you let your kid listen to Burzum. If I had a kid, Burzum would be among the little metal that I would be exposing him/her at a young age.


That is true. Burzum isn't necessarily bad when compared to other bands with far more violent, disturbing aesthetics (i.e. Gorgasm, various Brutal Death Metal bands). Though your kid may end up making paper churches during class and setting fire to them, but at least he won't be some deranged cannibal.
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saintinhell
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:29 pm 
 

vondskapens_makt wrote:
Lichspawn wrote:
Why wouldn't you let your kid listen to Burzum. If I had a kid, Burzum would be among the little metal that I would be exposing him/her at a young age.


That is true. Burzum isn't necessarily bad when compared to other bands with far more violent, disturbing aesthetics (i.e. Gorgasm, various Brutal Death Metal bands). Though your kid may end up making paper churches during class and setting fire to them, but at least he won't be some deranged cannibal.


Maybe not Gorgasm, sure, but Burzum would still be far-out for a 6-8 year old. In a way, getting a wrong impression of religious/anti-religious zealotry may be worse than thinking that killing humans is good, both ideas are bad, but the former is imo the greater evil. All this talk of how much metal a kid ought or ought not to be exposed to makes me wonder: Why can't they bloody well wait their turn, like I did?? :lol: What's the hurry, keeping up with the Joneses, eh?? :lol:

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deathcorpse
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:47 pm 
 

saintinhell wrote:
vondskapens_makt wrote:
Lichspawn wrote:
Why wouldn't you let your kid listen to Burzum. If I had a kid, Burzum would be among the little metal that I would be exposing him/her at a young age.


That is true. Burzum isn't necessarily bad when compared to other bands with far more violent, disturbing aesthetics (i.e. Gorgasm, various Brutal Death Metal bands). Though your kid may end up making paper churches during class and setting fire to them, but at least he won't be some deranged cannibal.


Maybe not Gorgasm, sure, but Burzum would still be far-out for a 6-8 year old. In a way, getting a wrong impression of religious/anti-religious zealotry may be worse than thinking that killing humans is good, both ideas are bad, but the former is imo the greater evil. All this talk of how much metal a kid ought or ought not to be exposed to makes me wonder: Why can't they bloody well wait their turn, like I did?? :lol: What's the hurry, keeping up with the Joneses, eh?? :lol:


There is no hurry and there shouldn't be. Kids will let you know.

Yesterday my son was playing the keyboard holding one weird note with a church organ sound and then he'd turn around and look at me and make believe he was a monster with chomping teeth. I didn't show him any horror movies ever, and he doesn't know about Phantom Of The Opera etc, but obviously he has a keen imagination and must already "get it" How he put that 2 and 2 together, I'll never know.

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deathcorpse
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:50 pm 
 

Lichspawn wrote:
deathcorpse wrote:
Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
Forcing many things on a child is wrong, I think. When I say I would allow a kid of my own to purchase a death metal record, I don't mean that I would suggest it to him. First and foremost, I would only allow it if I was sure he could handle it, as I've mentioned before. Secondly, if he/she decided that sort of thing is interesting, then I would ok it if they really wanted it. Same goes for movies and all of that. You simply can't control every aspect of a kid's life though, and they are bound to find some of these things out on their own. My mother actually when she watched The Exorcist, she did so without her parents knowledge. It scared the shit out of her but it brought a new experience. I think most people past a certain age can really understand what's happening on a movie screen isn't necessarily real. This is what I've observed from seeing kids grow up, little cousins, children of friends, etc. It all seems to happen around 6-8 years old, too.


True, but he won't be seeing that sort of movie at least under my supervision until I think he's ready...and IMO that's around 13. It may change, but I doubt it. If he comes to me and tells me he already saw it, I will want to know his thoughts and how it affected him...and I will explain to him that it's only a movie and not reality. But sometimes fantasy can be more shocking and mindblowing then reality.

To me, I'm not shocked at violence or war, but I'm shocked by the inner realms and fantasy that is created within the fictional world. Maybe that's because I saw the whole Vietnam war shit go on in the news on TV and my parents didn't sensor it...or maybe I thought that reality wasn't scary. Still imagery can be frightening, either real or not.

Again, he won't be hearing BURZUM from me unless I think he's ready. He won't hear it in the car while we are driving somewhere, like here kid check this OUT...

Either or, I'm not fueling the fire :lol:

My original point was that I won't be the one exposing it to him or forcing it on him. So in that we both agree.

Why wouldn't you let your kid listen to Burzum. If I had a kid, Burzum would be among the little metal that I would be exposing him/her at a young age.


Why on earth would you let a little kid that isn't mature enough to understand certain things listen to something depressive with vocals that sound like he's being crucified? Why freak them out? Why not let them figure it out for themselves? Not at 3 1/2...sorry; and probably not even at 8. No death metal/black metal right away. That music is for teens and older, not for small children. If I played that for my kid, he'd ask me why he's screaming in pain and it may give him nightmares. He can start with AC/DC, Ozzy, Judas Priest and that sort of thing. 1 thing at a time.

When he comes home with some COF record, I'll set him straight :lol: I doubt that will happen in grade school though.

But regardless, I will be ready to educate him about all types of music.

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Reaper43
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:25 pm 
 

Hmm, thinking realistically I can't see my listening habits adapting just because I have a child. Yes the subject matter in metal is questionable for children, yet largely incoherent to the untrained ear. It's not as if country isn't largely depressive in nature, and I grew up listening to it. It's also much easier to understand and could be just as impacting to a child. I really can't see my listening habits having that negative of an impact on my child if I raise he/she in a loving home. I'm sorry but something as trivial as the sound of death metal pales in comparison to the levels of real tragedy I went through as a child, and I'm a sufficiently adjusted adult, despite a few bumps throughout my adolescence.
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deathcorpse
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:28 pm 
 

Reaper43 wrote:
Hmm, thinking realistically I can't see my listening habits adapting just because I have a child. Yes the subject matter in metal is questionable for children, yet largely incoherent to the untrained ear. It's not as if country isn't largely depressive in nature, and I grew up listening to it. It's also much easier to understand and could be just as impacting to a child. I really can't see my listening habits having that negative of an impact on my child if I raise he/she in a loving home. I'm sorry but something as trivial as the sound of death metal pales in comparison to the levels of real tragedy I went through as a child, and I'm a sufficiently adjusted adult, despite a few bumps throughout my adolescence.


There is a difference though in playing rock and roll for a young child versus playing death/black metal. My listening habits haven't changed, it's just become more thoughtful and selective and I use set and setting. I can listen to whatever I want to at work, on my Ipod on a headset, or at home when he's asleep blasting in a headset. Why should I subject others that what I listen to anyway? I don't see the big deal in parental guidance. It's the same with cursing. Why curse in front of your kids?

If any of you have kids someday, you may all re-think your stance on this, especially for the young kids under 13.

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Reaper43
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:45 pm 
 

deathcorpse wrote:
There is a difference though in playing rock and roll for a young child versus playing death/black metal. My listening habits haven't changed, it's just become more thoughtful and selective and I use set and setting. I can listen to whatever I want to at work, on my Ipod on a headset, or at home when he's asleep blasting in a headset. Why should I subject others that what I listen to anyway? I don't see the big deal in parental guidance. It's the same with cursing. Why curse in front of your kids?

If any of you have kids someday, you may all re-think your stance on this, especially for the young kids under 13.


Shielding your child is just as damaging as forcing something upon them. It's not like they aren't going to hear cursing as a constant from other sources, whether it be school, friends, or potentially other adults. I'm not saying throw a blue streak at them, just act rationally.

Also, I'm subjected to what others listen to all the time why not subject them to the same? What, do they honestly think everyone enjoys their mainstream tripe. Yes that's a bit of an eye for an eye view, but so be it.

I would much rather my child be subject to the "damaging" effects of metal then the equally as horrid showing of modern music. With pop and it's overtly sexual themes and rap and it's glorification of violence. Rock and roll is no where near as innocent as you portray it either holding both the aforementioned themes and a consistent motif of drug use. The only difference is the sounds portrayed in metal which is more aggressive.

I personally believe that if a child is raised in a loving environment, even one with aggressive music being played as a constant, they will turn out well adjusted. I hear lots of people talking about how their parents separating fucked them up, but never someone talking about how music in any form screwed them up for life. If you are exposed to metal as a small child it will become normative and thus not scare you in any manner. I highly doubt a child will understand or comprehend the lyrics, or even listen to them for that matter until they are much older (I know I didn't). At which point it is completely understandable to explain to them the music, something I would have been doing for many years prior to build up their understanding. Not to mention most music in the death and black variety is nowhere near as literal as it seems, typically using metaphors such as violence and satanism for other purposes, or shock value. That is something I would slowly help my child to comprehend.

Anyways I'm not saying I'm going to blare death metal in my kids crib I'm just not going to avoid them hearing it at any age. If I'm listening to it and they come around sure I'll turn it down, but I'm not going to be like oh no I don't want to make little Timmy maladjusted because he heard death gutturals. Especially since I'm a vocalist in a death metal band, I don't want my kid terrified of them and thus me because I'm practicing or what not.
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deathcorpse
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:49 pm 
 

Reaper43 wrote:
deathcorpse wrote:
There is a difference though in playing rock and roll for a young child versus playing death/black metal. My listening habits haven't changed, it's just become more thoughtful and selective and I use set and setting. I can listen to whatever I want to at work, on my Ipod on a headset, or at home when he's asleep blasting in a headset. Why should I subject others that what I listen to anyway? I don't see the big deal in parental guidance. It's the same with cursing. Why curse in front of your kids?

If any of you have kids someday, you may all re-think your stance on this, especially for the young kids under 13.


Shielding your child is just as damaging as forcing something upon them. It's not like they aren't going to hear cursing as a constant from other sources, whether it be school, friends, or potentially other adults. I'm not saying throw a blue streak at them, just act rationally.

Also, I'm subjected to what others listen to all the time why not subject them to the same? What, do they honestly think everyone enjoys their mainstream tripe. Yes that's a bit of an eye for an eye view, but so be it.

I would much rather my child be subject to the "damaging" effects of metal then the equally as horrid showing of modern music. With pop and it's overtly sexual themes and rap and it's glorification of violence. Rock and roll is no where near as innocent as you portray it either holding both the aforementioned themes and a consistent motif of drug use. The only difference is the sounds portrayed in metal which is more aggressive.

I personally believe that if a child is raised in a loving environment, even one with aggressive music being played as a constant, they will turn out well adjusted. I hear lots of people talking about how their parents separating fucked them up, but never someone talking about how music in any form screwed them up for life. If you are exposed to metal as a small child it will become normative and thus not scare you in any manner. I highly doubt a child will understand or comprehend the lyrics, or even listen to them for that matter until they are much older (I know I didn't). At which point it is completely understandable to explain to them the music, something I would have been doing for many years prior to build up their understanding. Not to mention most music in the death and black variety is nowhere near as literal as it seems, typically using metaphors such as violence and satanism for other purposes, or shock value. That is something I would slowly help my child to comprehend.

Anyways I'm not saying I'm going to blare death metal in my kids crib I'm just not going to avoid them hearing it at any age. If I'm listening to it and they come around sure I'll turn it down, but I'm not going to be like oh no I don't want to make little Timmy maladjusted because he heard death gutturals. Especially since I'm a vocalist in a death metal band, I don't want my kid terrified of them and thus me because I'm practicing or what not.


I think you completely misunderstood what I said, but that's cool.

My choice is that I am not going to play any of that stuff for him until I think he's old enough to get it. Same with horror movies. Surely all this shit is in my collection. If he finds it at school with some other kids, that's cool but I won't be playing it for him. Besides, I like to listen to music VERY loud, and I'd rather do so on my own time with a headset.


Last edited by deathcorpse on Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Reaper43
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:52 pm 
 

What was there to misunderstand I was just adding to my views and replying to certain statements you made, nothing more then that really.
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deathcorpse
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:01 pm 
 

Reaper43 wrote:
What was to misunderstand I was just adding to my views and replying to certain statements you made, no big.


I think the point was that there is a difference between parental guidance and actual shielding. To shield is to hide, and it's not hidden...it's there all over my house with books, movies, and CDs and vinyl. I don't hide my posters of KISS from him; they are up on my walls in my music room. At 3 1/2 he's listened to Ozzy, Judas Priest, KISS, Def Leppard, that sort of thing, and he also listens to rock music from the 50's. I even played him Slayer and he said it was "scary". Not bad scary but good scary. I know he's going to have an interest in certain things, and they are all there in the house for him to discover...when I think he's ready and when he thinks he's ready. I have beer in the house, he knows what that is, but I'm not obviously going to allow him to have one until he's old enough if you know what I mean. I'm not going to hang out with him on a weekend and just casually turn on THE EVIL DEAD when he's 7. That's dumb.

But again, I don't watch world or even local news in front of him especially now. He'll have enough reality in front of him soon enough.


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Reaper43
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:07 pm 
 

Yes there is a difference between shielding and parental guidance, to what extent that is I think we mildly disagree. However child rearing is a very specific thing and has to be done differently for each child so maybe I will have to adjust my lifestyle come the time, it's all in how my child reacts to things. Oh and I did understand you and I wasn't accusing you of outright shielding your child, I just saw the opportunity to bring up my views on the topic. No personal insult meant.
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deathcorpse
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:16 pm 
 

Reaper43 wrote:
Yes there is a difference between shielding and parental guidance, to what extent that is I think we mildly disagree. However child rearing is a very specific thing and has to be done differently for each child so maybe I will have to adjust my lifestyle come the time, it's all in how my child reacts to things. Oh and I did understand you and I wasn't accusing you of outright shielding your child, I just saw the opportunity to bring up my views on the topic. No personal insult meant.


No I hear you, I'm not taking it as an insult or anything; I'm just clarifying my stance a bit. For instance, I have lots of horror shirts, and I just don't wear most of that graphic stuff in front of him because I don't want him to have nightmares. Would he have them if I showed him? Perhaps not but why add fuel to the fire?

I know when he's old enough I'll know, and it's hard to benchmark things and see into the future and put an age limit on it all, but I am trying to go slow with certain things that have violence and horror in them. Maybe he'll be 11 and ready, but that remains to be seen.

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Lichspawn
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:13 pm 
 

deathcorpse wrote:
Reaper43 wrote:
Yes there is a difference between shielding and parental guidance, to what extent that is I think we mildly disagree. However child rearing is a very specific thing and has to be done differently for each child so maybe I will have to adjust my lifestyle come the time, it's all in how my child reacts to things. Oh and I did understand you and I wasn't accusing you of outright shielding your child, I just saw the opportunity to bring up my views on the topic. No personal insult meant.


No I hear you, I'm not taking it as an insult or anything; I'm just clarifying my stance a bit. For instance, I have lots of horror shirts, and I just don't wear most of that graphic stuff in front of him because I don't want him to have nightmares. Would he have them if I showed him? Perhaps not but why add fuel to the fire?

I know when he's old enough I'll know, and it's hard to benchmark things and see into the future and put an age limit on it all, but I am trying to go slow with certain things that have violence and horror in them. Maybe he'll be 11 and ready, but that remains to be seen.

Maybe he'll be 8 and ready. You won't know until it happens. Just don't take any metal away from him or forbid him from listening to/buying it(if he truly loves it, not if he listens to it because his friends do). I know from experience that would be far more traumatic than actually listening to it.

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deathcorpse
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:09 pm 
 

Lichspawn wrote:
deathcorpse wrote:
Reaper43 wrote:
Yes there is a difference between shielding and parental guidance, to what extent that is I think we mildly disagree. However child rearing is a very specific thing and has to be done differently for each child so maybe I will have to adjust my lifestyle come the time, it's all in how my child reacts to things. Oh and I did understand you and I wasn't accusing you of outright shielding your child, I just saw the opportunity to bring up my views on the topic. No personal insult meant.


No I hear you, I'm not taking it as an insult or anything; I'm just clarifying my stance a bit. For instance, I have lots of horror shirts, and I just don't wear most of that graphic stuff in front of him because I don't want him to have nightmares. Would he have them if I showed him? Perhaps not but why add fuel to the fire?

I know when he's old enough I'll know, and it's hard to benchmark things and see into the future and put an age limit on it all, but I am trying to go slow with certain things that have violence and horror in them. Maybe he'll be 11 and ready, but that remains to be seen.

Maybe he'll be 8 and ready. You won't know until it happens. Just don't take any metal away from him or forbid him from listening to/buying it(if he truly loves it, not if he listens to it because his friends do). I know from experience that would be far more traumatic than actually listening to it.


Of course not.

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