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mrchris
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 950
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:59 pm 
 

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jHro ... gD8UPL3680

COPENHAGEN, Denmark (AP) — Danish newspapers reprinted cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad in a gesture of solidarity Wednesday after police revealed a plot to kill the creator of the caricature that sparked deadly riots in the Muslim world.

Danish Muslims said they would seek to avoid a repeat of the violence two years ago — but with a rightwing Dutch lawmaker planning to air a movie that condemns Islam as fascist, Europe pondered the possibility of a new cycle of turmoil.


So I guess they deserve this in some way. Mods, if it isn't appropiate for this forum, move it to the Symposium.
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Pathological_Frolic
Butterfly Sister Rosemary

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:57 pm
Posts: 406
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:39 pm 
 

This is just fucking retarded that people have to worry about riots in the streets over a damn cartoon.
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 6552
Location: Fortress Northallerton, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:47 pm 
 

this whole outrage over the cartoons of Muhammad shows exactly what dangers people get into without a sense of humour.

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Unearthly
Spectre of Wrath

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:10 pm
Posts: 635
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:56 pm 
 

To be fair, the one they reprinted depicts Muhammad with a bomb, which can easily be interpreted as a sweeping generalization of Muslims and Islam. That aside...

Quote:
Islamic law generally opposes any depiction of the prophet, even favorable, for fear it could lead to idolatry.


Non-Muslims don't abide by Islamic law, right? So they should be "allowed" to depict Muhammad, and in whatever fashion they choose. It's this bullshit "omg you offended my religion die infidel" concept. Maybe grown fucking adults should be able to deal with "offensive" material instead of bitching to their (all fucking powerful!) Allah and burning shit.

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Agathocles
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:52 pm
Posts: 765
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:58 pm 
 

I swear, humanity is doing its best to progress, but we've got this chain around are ankle that has to keep dragging this pathetic burden called Islam.

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Pathological_Frolic
Butterfly Sister Rosemary

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:57 pm
Posts: 406
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:07 pm 
 

Unearthly wrote:
Maybe grown fucking adults should be able to deal with "offensive" material instead of bitching to their (all fucking powerful!) Allah and burning shit.

You would think Allah would have killed the blasphemers by now if it offended his law so much.
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 6552
Location: Fortress Northallerton, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:09 pm 
 

Unearthly wrote:
To be fair, the one they reprinted depicts Muhammad with a bomb, which can easily be interpreted as a sweeping generalization of Muslims and Islam. That aside...

Quote:
Islamic law generally opposes any depiction of the prophet, even favorable, for fear it could lead to idolatry.


Non-Muslims don't abide by Islamic law, right? So they should be "allowed" to depict Muhammad, and in whatever fashion they choose. It's this bullshit "omg you offended my religion die infidel" concept. Maybe grown fucking adults should be able to deal with "offensive" material instead of bitching to their (all fucking powerful!) Allah and burning shit.


hmmmmm i don't think many fundamentalist muslims would say omg, its a tad blasphemous dont ya think! but you certainly make a good point, I mean non-muslim women don't have to be veiled so why should we take heed to any other of their laws.

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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 9714
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:57 pm 
 

Wow not this shit again. I think it was Unearthly that said that non-muslims should be able to depict the prophet and I believe that too. It isn't there religion, so they aren't bound by anything we're strictly bound to. Sure, I'm not a devout Muslim and I don't get sand in my dick over this issue, but it really pisses me off that Islam has probably the dumbest people in today's society.
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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:32 pm 
 

Goddamnit Islam, stop being such a whiny bitch.
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LindisfarneAnno793
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:09 am
Posts: 447
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:15 pm 
 

Pathological_Frolic wrote:
You would think Allah would have killed the blasphemers by now if it offended his law so much.


Allah hardly needs to have any hand in killing blasphemers when so many Muslims believe that the Quran commands them to take the killing into their own hands. The internet has an abundance of Quranic passages seeming to encourage persistent violence against nonbelievers and enemies of Islam, but there are just as many Quranic passages insisting that Muslims should not commit aggression (the killing of innocent civilians would be such an act of aggression) and that hostility should cease when an enemy ceases its aggression. I know little about Islam, but this much at least I perceive to be the case - that the Muslims committing the acts of violence that we are most aware of, seem to be taking the hostility-passages completely out of context (or otherwise misinterpreting them), and completely ignoring the passages admonishing against aggression. Of course, it's just as likely that many Muslims feel that they are constantly subject to persistent attack (though attack can mean anything from a foreign, apostate power invading your country, or an offensive depiction of the Prophet Muhammad, to whatever an individual might have it in him/herself to feel attacked by), thus justifying in their minds hostility with Allah as their backing, but I can only speculate with my limited knowledge on the subject.
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AlastairN
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:28 pm
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:53 pm 
 

I'm happy about this. Islam is the most fucked up backwards religion on the planet (and that's saying something).

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Lord_Hate
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:09 am
Posts: 66
Location: Iraq
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:51 am 
 

Unearthly wrote:
To be fair, the one they reprinted depicts Muhammad with a bomb, which can easily be interpreted as a sweeping generalization of Muslims and Islam.


Yes, but it is a very accurate one.
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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:03 am 
 

Good on them, I say (the Newspapers, that is). Here's hoping that other papers pick it up.

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Pathological_Frolic
Butterfly Sister Rosemary

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:57 pm
Posts: 406
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:05 am 
 

AlastairN wrote:
I'm happy about this. Radical Islamic countries are the most fucked up backwards places on the planet (and that's saying something).

Fix'd
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Lord_Hate
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:09 am
Posts: 66
Location: Iraq
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:06 am 
 

AlastairN wrote:
I'm happy about this. Islam is the most fucked up backwards religion on the planet (and that's saying something).


Pathological_Frolic wrote:
AlastairN wrote:
I'm happy about this. Radical Islamic countries are the most fucked up backwards places on the planet (and that's saying something).

Fix'd


Didn't really need fixing, there, but what you say is true too.
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Pathological_Frolic
Butterfly Sister Rosemary

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:57 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:10 am 
 

Lord_Hate wrote:
AlastairN wrote:
I'm happy about this. Islam is the most fucked up backwards religion on the planet (and that's saying something).


Pathological_Frolic wrote:
AlastairN wrote:
I'm happy about this. Radical Islamic countries are the most fucked up backwards places on the planet (and that's saying something).

Fix'd


Didn't really need fixing, there, but what you say is true too.

I don't know. If we're judging the religion itself (As in, not the followers, but the ideas the religion speaks of) Christianity is just as fucked up.
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Lord_Hate
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:09 am
Posts: 66
Location: Iraq
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:22 am 
 

Pathological_Frolic wrote:
Lord_Hate wrote:
AlastairN wrote:
I'm happy about this. Islam is the most fucked up backwards religion on the planet (and that's saying something).


Pathological_Frolic wrote:
AlastairN wrote:
I'm happy about this. Radical Islamic countries are the most fucked up backwards places on the planet (and that's saying something).

Fix'd


Didn't really need fixing, there, but what you say is true too.

I don't know. If we're judging the religion itself (As in, not the followers, but the ideas the religion speaks of) Christianity is just as fucked up.


So, you are saying Islam isn't so bad because Christianity is bad too? That logic doesn't work in reality. I'll admit, there are things about Islam I like, such as their sensible attitude towards women, but as you pointed out yourself, Islamic countries are among the most backwards places in the world and the reason is so is because they are full of Islam. Really, I thought it was weird you seemed to be trying to seperate those two facts, but they are most intimately related as a cause and an effect.
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Pathological_Frolic
Butterfly Sister Rosemary

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:57 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:44 am 
 

Lord_Hate wrote:
So, you are saying Islam isn't so bad because Christianity is bad too? That logic doesn't work in reality. I'll admit, there are things about Islam I like, such as their sensible attitude towards women, but as you pointed out yourself, Islamic countries are among the most backwards places in the world and the reason is so is because they are full of Islam. Really, I thought it was weird you seemed to be trying to seperate those two facts, but they are most intimately related as a cause and an effect.

I'm in no way trying to imply that the radical followers of Islam (In today's world, at least) are any less bad because the theology of Christianity is just as backward, I'm simply saying both are backward at their core. If Christians accurately followed what was in the bible, I have little doubt that countries with Christians as the majority would be any less fucked up.
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Leify
A Whisper of Death

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:54 am
Posts: 744
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:48 pm 
 

Agathocles wrote:
I swear, humanity is doing its best to progress, but we've got this chain around are ankle that has to keep dragging this pathetic burden called Religion.


Better.
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Caerb
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:29 pm
Posts: 204
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:54 pm 
 

Sadly the pictures will not have the effect everyone had hoped for. Muslim spokepersons said that the pictures have been shown before and couldn't really upset anyone by now. I still support the decision to air the cartoons again: we have freedom of speech, and religious extremists will not take it away from us.

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Qwerr
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:43 am
Posts: 87
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:22 pm 
 

PAANKSTER wrote:
I still support the decision to air the cartoons again: we have freedom of speech, and religious extremists will not take it away from us.

You're right, we have freedom of speech, but we should use it with a bit of common sense. It's common knowledge that muslims don't have much sense of humour when talking about Islam, IMHO those newspapers should have avoided publishing those cartoons for peace sake.
The islamic situation is delicate enough, those cartoons are just rubbing salt into the wound.
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DeathCroak
Professor R. H. Gumby

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:35 pm 
 

Yes, fight the power and all that.....

Fuck Islam

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Samapico
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 268
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:26 pm 
 

Leify wrote:
Agathocles wrote:
I swear, humanity is doing its best to progress, but we've got this chain around are ankle that has to keep dragging this pathetic burden called Religion.


Better.
I was about to post exactly the same thing...
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Caerb
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:29 pm
Posts: 204
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:01 pm 
 

Qwerr wrote:
PAANKSTER wrote:
I still support the decision to air the cartoons again: we have freedom of speech, and religious extremists will not take it away from us.

You're right, we have freedom of speech, but we should use it with a bit of common sense. It's common knowledge that muslims don't have much sense of humour when talking about Islam, IMHO those newspapers should have avoided publishing those cartoons for peace sake.
The islamic situation is delicate enough, those cartoons are just rubbing salt into the wound.

I agree wholeheartedly that it is not necessary to use this freedom of speech to spread hate and to offend people deliberately without reason, but the comics where funny and that was their sole purpose. Denmark have been cracking jokes at christianity and whatever other religion for years, and I fail to see why muslims should be treated any different.

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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 953
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:08 pm 
 

DeathCroak wrote:
Yes, fight the power and all that.....

Fuck Religion



^^

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AlastairN
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:28 pm
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:44 am 
 

Dude, people have done the 'fix'd' thing three times in the thread already, it isn't witty, original or worthwhile doing. Your parents are most likely Christians, and I'm sure most of you didn't grow up that badly with the religion completely ruling your lives. Islam is far, far worse than that - Sharia law and all that bullshit completely controls the lives of the people. I'm not defending Christianity, it is definitely a problem (mainly when people like say, the Archbishop of Canterbury or televangelicals get involved) but comparing it to the barbaric and tribal religion of Islam is pretty stupid.

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Pathological_Frolic
Butterfly Sister Rosemary

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:57 pm
Posts: 406
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:50 am 
 

AlastairN wrote:
Dude, people have done the 'fix'd' thing three times in the thread already, it isn't witty, original or worthwhile doing. Your parents are most likely Christians, and I'm sure most of you didn't grow up that badly with the religion completely ruling your lives. Islam is far, far worse than that - Sharia law and all that bullshit completely controls the lives of the people. I'm not defending Christianity, it is definitely a problem (mainly when people like say, the Archbishop of Canterbury or televangelicals get involved) but comparing it to the barbaric and tribal religion of Islam is pretty stupid.

Have you read any of what I've said? Realistically, of course I would say Islam is a far more oppressive religion if one were to consider how strongly the nations that are mostly comprised of Muslims follow it's holy book. But, the laws laid out by the Old and New Testament are just as oppressive and if the countries in which Christianity is the majority followed said laws, they wouldn't look much different from the Islamic countries. Therefore, it isn't the religion of Islam itself, it is the fucked up followers/religious leaders of it. Oh, I guess I should be original and just post "Fuck Islam" like everyone else.

EDIT: Ragna_Rock said it best
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Last edited by Pathological_Frolic on Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Ragna_Rock
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 1
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:51 am 
 

AlastairN wrote:
Dude, people have done the 'fix'd' thing three times in the thread already, it isn't witty, original or worthwhile doing. Your parents are most likely Christians, and I'm sure most of you didn't grow up that badly with the religion completely ruling your lives. Islam is far, far worse than that - Sharia law and all that bullshit completely controls the lives of the people. I'm not defending Christianity, it is definitely a problem (mainly when people like say, the Archbishop of Canterbury or televangelicals get involved) but comparing it to the barbaric and tribal religion of Islam is pretty stupid.

The only major difference is the fact that we live in something of a post-Christian society, whereas the Islamic world has stayed more or less since the middle ages. Back then they were identical in terms of brutality and bigotry. Of course in contemporary Western society it isn't as bad, but that's not to do with the religion of Christianity itself so much as the increasing separation of church and state. One can still witness many purist Christian elements that are every bit as nasty as certain muslim organisations like al-Qaida.

Edit: Above poster kinda beat me to it.

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Lordofthedance
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:40 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:02 am 
 

As has now been stated twice, the key difference has nothing to do with the religions but, as Ragna_Rock said, the power the religions have in their respective areas of the world. The fact is that Christianity, taken literally and applied in a fundamentalist way, is no better than Muslim extremism, and Christina extremists are no better than Muslim extremists. You really only need to look at the murdering of abortion doctors and films like "Jesus Camp" to see that. If the Christian fundamentalists gained the sort of power in the western world that Muslim extremists have in the Middle East, there'd be no real difference between them.

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paskogen
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:35 am
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:19 am 
 

Agathocles wrote:
I swear, humanity is doing its best to progress, but we've got this chain around are ankle that has to keep dragging this pathetic burden called religion


fixed.

oh holy fuck i was beat to the punch TWICE. fuck me, im going to bed.
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norilor
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:27 pm
Posts: 336
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:59 am 
 

paskogen wrote:
Agathocles wrote:
I swear, humanity is doing its best to progress, but we've got this chain around are ankle that has to keep dragging this pathetic burden called religion


fixed.

oh holy fuck i was beat to the punch TWICE. fuck me, im going to bed.


True.

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alexanderthegreat
Metal Barbarian Dinosaur

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:34 pm
Posts: 1916
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:37 am 
 

Agathocles wrote:
I swear, humanity is doing its best to progress, but we've got this chain around are ankle that has to keep dragging this pathetic burden called Homo sapiens.


The time of Homo superior is upon us people! :P

This story saddens, infuriates and confuses me, but it doesn't surprise me. The fact that people can be murdered for a drawing is just one of those things I'll never understand.
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TheYardstick
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:43 am
Posts: 204
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:55 pm 
 

It's threads like these where I love this quote.

"Religion: True for the common, false for the wise, and useful for those in power."

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BeforeGod
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:20 am
Posts: 175
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:11 pm 
 

Qwerr wrote:
PAANKSTER wrote:
I still support the decision to air the cartoons again: we have freedom of speech, and religious extremists will not take it away from us.

You're right, we have freedom of speech, but we should use it with a bit of common sense. It's common knowledge that muslims don't have much sense of humour when talking about Islam, IMHO those newspapers should have avoided publishing those cartoons for peace sake.
The islamic situation is delicate enough, those cartoons are just rubbing salt into the wound.


Why exactly is there even an "Islamic situation" in Denmark? After all this controversy over the cartoons it's shocking that any Danes still tolerate the presence of the invaders. It's good to see so many papers standing up for freedom of speech, but at the end of the day they're not really helping. The only reasonable stance to take would be a call for the total removal of non-Europeans from Denmark.

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DeathCroak
Professor R. H. Gumby

Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 268
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:34 pm 
 

BeforeGod wrote:
Qwerr wrote:
PAANKSTER wrote:
I still support the decision to air the cartoons again: we have freedom of speech, and religious extremists will not take it away from us.

You're right, we have freedom of speech, but we should use it with a bit of common sense. It's common knowledge that muslims don't have much sense of humour when talking about Islam, IMHO those newspapers should have avoided publishing those cartoons for peace sake.
The islamic situation is delicate enough, those cartoons are just rubbing salt into the wound.


Why exactly is there even an "Islamic situation" in Denmark? After all this controversy over the cartoons it's shocking that any Danes still tolerate the presence of the invaders. It's good to see so many papers standing up for freedom of speech, but at the end of the day they're not really helping. The only reasonable stance to take would be a call for the total removal of non-Europeans from Denmark.


Or maybe just Muslims, after all it is their culture/religion that makes them into the hateful intollerant fucks that they are, not their race.

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Tscherno_Bill
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:02 am
Posts: 22
Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:14 am 
 

DeathCroak wrote:

Or maybe just Muslims, after all it is their culture/religion that makes them into the hateful intollerant fucks that they are, not their race.


Yeah. That goes to every religion out there (of which Islam still is the worst).

I'm going to found a flag fabrication company in the Middle East. I think the Danish and the United States flags should be the best to start with. So, if you are a Danish or American journalist, please release some more Mohammed caricatures. I'd be thankful.
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MUR
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:21 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:43 am 
 

Think about it, if your idol would be embarrassed in some short of magazine would you be angry?
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Viral
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:04 am
Posts: 1894
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:39 pm 
 

I understand Muslims are an unwelcome presence in Europe, but seriously...why are Europeons always trying to open a new can of worms on this matter? Combating mass immigration with racism is not the answer. They need to find more diplomatic ways around this.
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Thorgrim_Honkronte
Imperius Rexxz

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 pm
Posts: 2903
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:40 pm 
 

It isn't really racism, but I know what you meant. Regardless, political cartoons have been around for ages, why should we censor them now?
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Pathological_Frolic
Butterfly Sister Rosemary

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:57 pm
Posts: 406
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:41 pm 
 

Viral wrote:
I understand Muslims are an unwelcome presence in Europe, but seriously...why are Europeons always trying to open a new can of worms on this matter? Combating mass immigration with racism is not the answer. They need to find more diplomatic ways around this.

No, you don't understand. Hate + Hate = Less violence and tension.

MUR wrote:
Think about it, if your idol would be embarrassed in some short of magazine would you be angry?

Perhaps, but I doubt that I would be willing to, say, burn down an edifice for that reason.
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