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FasterDisaster
OMG WAT DOES THIS CAPS LOCK KEY DO

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Posts: 6414
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:06 pm 
 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/02/04/fbi.biometrics/index.html

Quote:
FBI wants palm prints, eye scans, tattoo mapping

CLARKSBURG, West Virginia (CNN) -- The FBI is gearing up to create a massive computer database of people's physical characteristics, all part of an effort the bureau says to better identify criminals and terrorists.

But it's an issue that raises major privacy concerns -- what one civil liberties expert says should concern all Americans.

The bureau is expected to announce in coming days the awarding of a $1 billion, 10-year contract to help create the database that will compile an array of biometric information -- from palm prints to eye scans.

Kimberly Del Greco, the FBI's Biometric Services section chief, said adding to the database is "important to protect the borders to keep the terrorists out, protect our citizens, our neighbors, our children so they can have good jobs, and have a safe country to live in."

But it's unnerving to privacy experts.

"It's the beginning of the surveillance society where you can be tracked anywhere, any time and all your movements, and eventually all your activities will be tracked and noted and correlated," said Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Technology and Liberty Project.

The FBI already has 55 million sets of fingerprints on file. In coming years, the bureau wants to compare palm prints, scars and tattoos, iris eye patterns, and facial shapes. The idea is to combine various pieces of biometric information to positively identify a potential suspect.

A lot will depend on how quickly technology is perfected, according to Thomas Bush, the FBI official in charge of the Clarksburg, West Virginia, facility where the FBI houses its current fingerprint database.

"Fingerprints will still be the big player," Bush, assistant director of the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Services Division, told CNN.

But he added, "Whatever the biometric that comes down the road, we need to be able to plug that in and play."

First up, he said, are palm prints. The FBI has already begun collecting images and hopes to soon use these as an additional means of making identifications. Countries that are already using such images find 20 percent of their positive matches come from latent palm prints left at crime scenes, the FBI's Bush said.

The FBI has also started collecting mug shots and pictures of scars and tattoos. These images are being stored for now as the technology is fine-tuned. All of the FBI's biometric data is stored on computers 30-feet underground in the Clarksburg facility.

In addition, the FBI could soon start comparing people's eyes -- specifically the iris, or the colored part of an eye -- as part of its new biometrics program called Next Generation Identification.

Nearby, at West Virginia University's Center for Identification Technology Research, researchers are already testing some of these technologies that will ultimately be used by the FBI.

"The best increase in accuracy will come from fusing different biometrics together," said Bojan Cukic, the co-director of the center.

But while law enforcement officials are excited about the possibilities of these new technologies, privacy advocates are upset the FBI will be collecting so much personal information.

"People who don't think mistakes are going to be made I don't think fly enough," said Steinhardt.

He said thousands of mistakes have been made with the use of the so-called no-fly lists at airports -- and that giving law enforcement widespread data collection techniques should cause major privacy alarms.

"There are real consequences to people," Steinhardt said.

You don't have to be a criminal or a terrorist to be checked against the database. More than 55 percent of the checks the FBI runs involve criminal background checks for people applying for sensitive jobs in government or jobs working with vulnerable people such as children and the elderly, according to the FBI.

The FBI says it hasn't been saving the fingerprints for those checks, but that may change. The FBI plans a so-called "rap-back" service in which an employer could ask the FBI to keep the prints for an employee on file and let the employer know if the person ever has a brush with the law. The FBI says it will first have to clear hurdles with state privacy laws, and people would have to sign waivers allowing their information to be kept.

Critics say people are being forced to give up too much personal information. But Lawrence Hornak, the co-director of the research center at West Virginia University, said it could actually enhance people's privacy.

"It allows you to project your identity as being you," said Hornak. "And it allows people to avoid identity theft, things of that nature."

There remains the question of how reliable these new biometric technologies will be. A 2006 German study looking at facial recognition in a crowded train station found successful matches could be made 60 percent of the time during the day. But when lighting conditions worsened at night, the results shrank to a success rate of 10 to 20 percent.

As work on these technologies continues, researchers are quick to admit what's proven to be the most accurate so far. "Iris technology is perceived today, together with fingerprints, to be the most accurate," said Cukic.

But in the future all kinds of methods may be employed. Some researchers are looking at the way people walk as a possible additional means of identification.

The FBI says it will protect all this personal data and only collect information on criminals and those seeking sensitive jobs.

The ACLU's Steinhardt doesn't believe it will stop there.

"This had started out being a program to track or identify criminals," he said. "Now we're talking about large swaths of the population -- workers, volunteers in youth programs. Eventually, it's going to be everybody."


If you are old enough, vote in this coming election and take the fucking country back!
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ForNaught
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:37 pm
Posts: 1193
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:09 pm 
 

Hi FBI!

I'm glad I don't live in the States, this kind of monitoring and data collection would really freak me out if I felt I could be its target. Or one of many, at any rate. Seems like a pretty serious breach of the old civil liberties.

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Driotheri
Butthurt

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:06 pm
Posts: 27
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:28 pm 
 

Republican's don't really believe or even attempt to enforce that silly little paper called the Bill of Rights, as evident by the Patriot Act.

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Pathological_Frolic
Butterfly Sister Rosemary

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:57 pm
Posts: 406
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:31 pm 
 

Well, that's disturbing....
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EzraWeeden
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:43 pm
Posts: 116
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:06 pm 
 

Pretty soon we're gonna have GPS planted in our brains at birth so they know exactly where we are all the time.

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Garbage_Can
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:00 am
Posts: 178
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:19 pm 
 

Where's the problem with this? I'm not a criminal, so let them track me wherever I go.

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DustyFox
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:27 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:25 pm 
 

I don't think something like that would take off particularly well in Australia. But really, this isn't a bad idea despite those immediate nagging thoughts of "OMG CONSPIRACY!".


Last edited by DustyFox on Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zythifer
RP's left nut tastes like breastmilk

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:28 am
Posts: 128
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:27 pm 
 

The above two posters clearly don't understand where fascism starts

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the_empyreal_lexicon
Captured in Eternity's Eye

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:54 pm
Posts: 229
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:31 pm 
 

EzraWeeden wrote:
Pretty soon we're gonna have GPS planted in our brains at birth so they know exactly where we are all the time.

Tinfoil hat anyone?


Last edited by the_empyreal_lexicon on Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LSD_25
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:59 pm
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:35 pm 
 

Zythifer wrote:
The above two posters clearly don't understand where fascism starts


Agreed. This is an invasion of privacy, I hope the ACLU or some other organization challenges this in court.

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:39 pm 
 

Proud to be Canadian. I aint got tat shit happening in my country :thumbsup:
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invoked
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:43 pm 
 

Not yet...
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DustyFox
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:27 pm
Posts: 136
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:45 pm 
 

Zythifer wrote:
The above two posters clearly don't understand where fascism starts


The Big Bad Government, eh?

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ebola_legion
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:00 am
Posts: 67
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:51 pm 
 

At least I still have my thoughts, or do I :scratch:
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LSD_25
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:59 pm
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:53 pm 
 

ebola_legion wrote:
At least I still have my thoughts, or do I :scratch:


Thoughts lead to terrorism...you don't get those either. If you think, the terrorists win.

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vondskapens_makt
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:23 pm
Posts: 567
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:55 pm 
 

This is 1984 all over again.
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Pathological_Frolic
Butterfly Sister Rosemary

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:57 pm
Posts: 406
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:57 pm 
 

vondskapens_makt wrote:
This is 1984 all over again.

:durr: Someone had to say it! Not that I disagree entirely, but somehow mentioning this absolutely destroys the credibility of anyone that might agree with the sentiment to any degree.
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EzraWeeden
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:43 pm
Posts: 116
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:43 pm 
 

the_empyreal_lexicon wrote:
EzraWeeden wrote:
Pretty soon we're gonna have GPS planted in our brains at birth so they know exactly where we are all the time.

Tinfoil hat anyone?

I wear mine full time.

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PriestofSadWings
Bishop of Dark Spaces

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:29 pm
Posts: 653
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:48 pm 
 

EzraWeeden wrote:
the_empyreal_lexicon wrote:
EzraWeeden wrote:
Pretty soon we're gonna have GPS planted in our brains at birth so they know exactly where we are all the time.

Tinfoil hat anyone?

I wear mine full time.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
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boneexposed
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 11:41 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:53 pm 
 

PriestofSadWings wrote:
EzraWeeden wrote:
the_empyreal_lexicon wrote:
EzraWeeden wrote:
Pretty soon we're gonna have GPS planted in our brains at birth so they know exactly where we are all the time.

Tinfoil hat anyone?

I wear mine full time.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


You can also cover your head with a wet towel (that Arnold Schwaz..-don't know how o write it- movie).
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Earthcubed
Peregrinus sine aetate

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 2600
Location: Orocarni
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:56 pm 
 

There would have to be extremely strict standards to keep this from getting out of hand. Not happening, realistically.
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Pathological_Frolic
Butterfly Sister Rosemary

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:57 pm
Posts: 406
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:58 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
There would have to be extremely strict standards to keep this from getting out of hand. Not happening, realistically.

That's what I'm thinking. It's just far too simple to be abused, so I don't see it happening.
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Agonizer wrote:
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Darkwalker
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:10 pm
Posts: 77
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:00 pm 
 

Good thing I've always refused to give my fingerprints.
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RegularK
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:24 pm
Posts: 740
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:03 pm 
 

Quote:
"important to protect the borders to keep the terrorists out, protect our citizens, our neighbors, our children so they can have good jobs, and have a safe country to live in."


Come on, think of the children everyone! Those damn Mexicans and terrorists are hurting our children! (err, yours, cause I'm Canadian)

Ya, this is pretty retarded.

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mrchris
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 954
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:54 pm 
 

Darkwalker wrote:
Good thing I've always refused to give my fingerprints.


You can always cut your fingerprint portion of your skin off like seen in some movies..
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invoked
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:57 pm 
 

mrchris wrote:
Darkwalker wrote:
Good thing I've always refused to give my fingerprints.


You can always cut your fingerprint portion of your skin off like seen in some movies..


What about toes? Eyes? Hair??? THEY CAN TRACE EVERYTHING! HAVEN'T YOU SEEN GATICA (sp?)???
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GuntherTheUndying
Crimson King, Eater of Worlds

Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:36 pm
Posts: 2603
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:00 pm 
 

Pretty scary stuff. Crap like this is what scares me the most.

THE FBI IS WATCHING YOU FAP!!!!
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iAm
Wastelander

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:18 am
Posts: 5630
Location: West of the Duwamish due South of the Sound
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:05 pm 
 

:ugh:

I sincerely hate my government.

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DanFuckingLucas
Witchsmeller Pursuivant

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:30 am
Posts: 7555
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:05 pm 
 

That makes me laugh due to the fact that fingerprint identification is highly inaccurate, and alone only has an accuracy of approximately 90%.
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Metalister
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:52 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:10 pm 
 

mrchris wrote:
Darkwalker wrote:
Good thing I've always refused to give my fingerprints.


You can always cut your fingerprint portion of your skin off like seen in some movies..


Or cut your fingers of ! :)


GuntherTheUndying wrote:
Pretty scary stuff. Crap like this is what scares me the most.

THE FBI IS WATCHING YOU FAP!!!!


And while taking a crap.

Anyway, this is nothing new. Living in a pupil of one thousand eyes.

NP: Death - 1,000 Eyes

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Rattler
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:40 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:17 pm 
 

latinfiestacarnage wrote:
Proud to be Canadian. I aint got tat shit happening in my country :thumbsup:


We're next.

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Gumbo_Variation
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:10 am
Posts: 27
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:55 pm 
 

Garbage_Can wrote:
Where's the problem with this? I'm not a criminal, so let them track me wherever I go.


:nono: You really think FBI will ONLY use this to keep track of criminal? Not to gain a bit more control over the population?

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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 9793
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:58 pm 
 

Rattler wrote:
latinfiestacarnage wrote:
Proud to be Canadian. I aint got tat shit happening in my country :thumbsup:


We're next.

I'd be cracking up like hell if it wasn't for the Thing sitting next to me imitating a lemur.
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paskogen
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:35 am
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:04 am 
 

The government already plants rocks in our ears at birth. Otoliths. God damn I'm so funny!
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Gorgo
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:37 pm
Posts: 441
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:59 am 
 

This is going to happen in every democratic country, Big Brother is watching you.
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deathcorpse
Super Cres at Best

Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 497
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:53 am 
 

That's just a scare tactic and they use it often. That's how they keep order. As long as you aren't hurting anyone and aren't a terrorist, you should be ok.

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Vintersemestre
Shema Yisrael

Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 11:34 pm
Posts: 1860
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:11 pm 
 

Soyuz nerushimy respublik svobodnykh
Splotila naveki velikaya Rus'!
Da zdravstvuyet sozdanny voley narodov
Yediny, moguchy Sovetsky Soyuz!

Slavsya, Otechestvo nashe svobodnoye,
Druzhby narodov nadyozhny oplot!
Partiya Lenina — sila narodnaya
Nas k torzhestvu kommunizma vedyot!

Skvoz' grozy siyalo nam solntse svobody,
I Lenin veliky nam put' ozaril,
Na pravoye delo on podnyal narody,
Na trud i na podvigi nas vdokhnovil!

Slavsya, Otechestvo nashe svobodnoye,
Druzhby narodov nadyozhny oplot!
Partiya Lenina — sila narodnaya
Nas k torzhestvu kommunizma vedyot!

V pobede bessmertnykh idey kommunizma
My vidim gryadushcheye nashey strany,
I krasnomu znameni slavnoy otchizny
My budem vsegda bezzavetno verny!

Slavsya, Otechestvo nashe svobodnoye,
Druzhby narodov nadyozhny oplot!
Partiya Lenina — sila narodnaya
Nas k torzhestvu kommunizma vedyot!
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Zythifer
RP's left nut tastes like breastmilk

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:28 am
Posts: 128
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:28 pm 
 

deathcorpse wrote:
That's just a scare tactic and they use it often. That's how they keep order. As long as you aren't hurting anyone and aren't a terrorist, you should be ok.


:durr:

Aldous Huxley wrote:
A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.

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Lord_Hate
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:09 am
Posts: 66
Location: Iraq
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:28 pm 
 

deathcorpse wrote:
That's just a scare tactic and they use it often. That's how they keep order. As long as you aren't hurting anyone and aren't a terrorist, you should be ok.


This is mostly true. Really though, you guys act like the US government is an all powerful hyper-motivated entity who's legions of non-sleeping black suited agents are hellbent on reducing your personal freedom. The reality is that the government is made up from the same set of people you see everywhere, they are mostly unmotivated lazy slobs who are just milking the clock at their dead end job and are probobly as annoyed with the fed as you are. Besides, considering that their really are terrorists and militias and such things inside our own country don't you think the government, in general, has better things to do than watch us mostly normal people sit around listening to metal records and drinking beer?

That being said, I recomend everyone to resist letting anyone archive any of your bio-data/whatever or put video cameras around you as strongly as you can.

[EDIT]: In anycase, the real cause of your societal slavery is the social contracts you losers write in high school and sign in college.
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Garbage_Can
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:00 am
Posts: 178
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:08 pm 
 

Gumbo_Variation wrote:
Garbage_Can wrote:
Where's the problem with this? I'm not a criminal, so let them track me wherever I go.


:nono: You really think FBI will ONLY use this to keep track of criminal? Not to gain a bit more control over the population?


No, not at all. I honestly don't believe the FBI (or any government agency) gives two shits about the average American working man. And either way, if having some FBI dude monitor my internet means I don't have to worry about some sweaty terrorist blowing up the next plane I board, so be it.

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