Ah, I didn't realize "vader" was the actual Dutch word for father. I noticed it pretty much right away, but honestly I saw the original movies so young I can't remember ever not knowing that Vader was Luke's father.

Oi, I just wrote a short story and I was thinking of submitting it to some local competitions. It'd be much appreciated if one of you fine gentlemen would take a look over it and tell me if I've got any chance.

Sure, got a link?

Just sent it to you, cheers man.

I think the opposite's true for me. I knew he was Luke's father so I never really bothered to think about the name and just figured it was some standard sff made-up crap until right now. But then again I never really got into Star Wars in any meaningful way until last year.


Anywho the worst Star Wars name is Dexter Jettster. It's legit baffling to me.

Suttree - Cormac McCarthy
This is only the third book I've read from him, but I would be shocked if anything could dethrone Blood Meridian as his magnum opus. However, this book is brilliant. Centred around a detached man who has shunned his wealthy family and chosen to live in a depilated river town near Knoxville (in the early 50s). The cast of misfits and criminals that shuffle in and out of Suttree's life are brilliantly imagined. Like the rest of what I've read from McCarthy it is really fucking bleak and violent. However, what really sets it apart is how fucking funny it can be. Harrogate's antics are seriously some of the most hilarious stuff I've ever read in a novel. The language is quite opaque like it was in Blood Meridian and All the Pretty Horses (the other two novels I've read from him), but feels a lot more loose here (which I guess fits the story). Perhaps not the best McCarthy novel to start with, but definitely a very worthwhile read. Seriously, this guy is probably my favourite author, everything I've read from him so far is absolutely brilliant.

A Farewell to Arms - Ernest Hemingway
Honestly, I found the first third or so of the book a bit slow and more drawn out than it really needed to be. However, this book is fantastic once things really get set in motion. Hemingway is the master of saying more with less, his sparse prose is brilliant (although this is the sort of thing that often really sucks when imitated). He had a really interesting take on the war, as something to do more of as an experience than any sort of patriotic duty (he did join with the Italians, after all). Overall a really good book.


The Count of Monte Cristo - Alexandre Dumas
I've picked this up and put it down again due to school starting or whatever else more than I'd like to admit. At over 1200 pages, the book is an absolute behemoth. It was very much worth finishing, though. The epic and somewhat fantastical tale is great, and doesn't everyone love a good revenge story? It can be a lot to memorize all the characters and subplots, but the Count's complicated plots for vengeance are very much worth reading. The book is absolutely worthy of its length, it seems almost unfathomable that a abridged version exists with only 200-something pages. This is just some really great storytelling and is definitely considered a classic for good reason.

You say Hemingway's sparse prose often really sucks when imitated, dystopia4, but do you have any examples in which that is the case. Bukowski and especially Raymond Carver are both authors who also do the sparse prose very well. I would suggest you read some Carver if you haven't, actually.

A Farewell to Arms is the best Hemingway I've read - such a powerful tragedy really. Though I do plan on giving The Sun Also Rises another whirl sometime this year. I remember that one being quite good.

You've kind of got me in that I can't actually remember a concrete example offhand. I do remember reading a book like that a few years ago, but can't remember the name. Most of what I was basing that statement off, though, is my experience in taking various American literature courses. I've definitely come across multiple short stories that came across as 'trying way to hard to be Hemingway but just copying the style and not really capturing the spirit'.

I wasn't really attacking sparse prose in general, just the imitation of Hemingway (which even at that can surely be pulled off successfully). Bukowski is obviously brilliant and someone I definitely need to read more of (not really that into poetry, but goddamn are his poems fucking brilliant). I'll definitely get around to Carver at some point, I'm pretty sure you've recommended him to me before.

Reading "The city and the city" by china mieville at the moment. The premise is great, too early to see yet if the story itself works out to be good.

Yeah, Suttree is one of the best novels I've ever read. I still think Blood Meridian is his masterpiece because of its scope, but this one is easily just as well written, and comes off as more personal and emotional. It is uncharacteristically funny for a McCarthy novel, but it's still as crushing and tragic as anything else he's written too. That graveyard scene early in the book, oh my god.

Oh man, Suttree is so good. Blood Meridian is still the best, of course, but Suttree is just... really funny and really bleak. The everyday life descriptions and characters are spot on.



I didn't like the premise that much to be honest, and the story didn't grip me as his Bas-Lag stuff does. I remember feeling that the ending wasn't that great either.

That's every China Mieville book.

Sorry, but Snoke takes that crown. A supervillain called that is even worse. It sounds like a dog's name. "C'mon Snoke! C'm'ere boy!"

Actually that sounds like a bad name even for a doggie.

But but but...it sounds kinda like snake!!! Get it? Snoke is like a snake! An animal associated with deceit and trickery!!!! You just don't understand all the layers of Star Wars naming conventions.

Snoke doesn't bother me that much, really. It just sounds like a name to me.

What's baffling about Dexter Jettster is that it sounds like some schlocky 1950s sci-fi film protagonist who'd be your standard square-jawed white guy manly man. But it's a weird alien thing. I thought it was like common knowledge to give the weird alien things weird alien names in science fiction because it doesn't really make sense to do otherwise. Shit, a lot of human characters have weird alien names, like Mace Windu or Qui-Gon Jinn et al. But the diner alien dude has a totally anglo name.


Obviously I'm thinking way harder about this than George did but goddamn.

Anywho, I finished Steven Erikson's Forge of Darkness yesterday. Copy/pasted from the Fantasy Faction forum:

This was a letdown. I love the Book of the Fallen. It's the reason I got into fantasy. But this didn't do much for me. What made MBotF work for me was how massive its scope was. There's so much going on in so many places with so many people. The plot moves fast as hell because it has to. But when you scale it down and just make it about one certain thing, it doesn't really work. It's like Sanderson without a magic system, or Abercrombie without biting sardonicism. There were portions of this where I wasn't really clear on what was happening and I found myself not really caring. And way, way too much philosophizing. That all said, it's still a really well-written book, and I will definitely check out the next one, albeit with more realistic expectations.

Have you heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise?

Just finished Gravity's Rainbow and I'm not really sure what to think. It's clearly a brilliantly constructed, totally complete labyrinth of a book, but at the same time it was a really exhausting book to read. Normally I feel like reading is a cooperative experience, I'm cooperating with the author and their text to realise some kind of meaning. With Gravity's Rainbow I felt like I was actively fighting against the book to understand what was going on in anything but the most superficial sense. It had some totally revelatory moments though. I finished the final part of the book in a day. It wraps everything up in such a perfect way and demonstrates that Pynchon is really in total control of his artistic vision.

And, I mean, it's an absolutely hilarious book as well. Some parts of it -- everything from individual lines to whole chapters -- left me cackling like a lunatic. Ludwig's search for his pet lemming, that weird short story about the sentient lightbulbs, the line, "As the mustache waxes, Slothrop waxes the mustache," are all brilliant. They're surrounded by massive explorations of the symbolic sexuality of V-2 rockets, but I think it's worth it.

I literally just started reading it yesterday. Great so far - confusing, funny, totally out there. I loved Mason and Dixon, so I've really been looking forward to Gravity's Rainbow. It seems like it will be even weirder, and yes, exhausting, than Mason and Dixon, but I will persevere.

I had a similar experience with Gravity's Rainbow. It's a book I always wanted to read, and I'm glad I read it, but I'm fucked if I really understood the bulk of it. Easily the most dense, complex novel I've ever read, and I usually go out of my way to read dense, complex novels, so yeah, it's a doozy. I did really enjoy reading it though, it does have countless hilarious passages and even though it's constantly hard to figure out, the prose really does suck you in. Still, after reading that and two other Pynchon books immediately before it, I decided I'd give him a long break before tackling anything else.

I'm currently reading a whole lot of short stories and non-fiction to cool down after its total comprehensive-ness. I definitely want to read the book again at some point, but that's a very distant prospect haha. Much like Blood Meridian, even thinking about its most transcendental moments is enough to give me the chills.

Speaking of short stories, Borges' work is really giving me the shits. I'm slowly working my way through Fictiones, and almost all of the stories largely strike me as clever little metafictional jokes. He certainly taps into a really nice esoteric aesthetic, but so far they largely seem like pure atmosphere. That's fine in many cases, but over the course of 5-30 pages there's really not enough space for the atmosphere to sink in.

The Lottery in Babylon was pretty cool though.

Arthur C. Clarke's Rendezvous With Rama was really fucking good. After another failed attempt at reading a Wheel of Time book and then fucking Forge of Darkness, it was great to read something super short and sweet.

Up to "Memories of Ice" in the Malazan Book of the Fallen. Still undecided if this guy can actually write or if the story is hard to follow intentionally. Either way, its enjoyable but extremely gloomy. I really liked the characters of Duiker and Iskaral Pust. I'm finding it hard to figure out the different geography of the various continents though. In my mind, they are all basically Arabic/north African, perhaps slightly caucasian.

I always read a non-fiction book (or 2) on the side. Usually sciencey stuff. ATM, reading the Dragons of Eden by Carl Sagan. Excellent writer, fascinating topic. I was reading 'The Selfish Gene' but I dislike the way Dawkin's communicates. I think he is often unclear and his analogies suck. I also disagree with his premise but I could rant about that for pages...

That's definitely my favorite book, not only of the series but in general. And its difficulty is definitely intentional.



And I believe almost every human character in MBotF is non-white if that helps. I know Duiker and Quick Ben are black and just about everyone else has some shade of brown to them.

Just wait til House of Chains when you get to witness meet Karsa Orlong, who may be my favorite character.

I recently read The Greatest Show on Earth by Dawkins. His writing certainly does get a bit grating at times, but overall it was really interesting. I was expecting it to just be 400 pages of him shit-talking creationists, but instead it was a relatively accessible account of the evidence for evolution and the mechanisms through which it takes place. I was pleasantly surprised and I highly recommend the book.

^I read The God Delusion and really enjoyed it. Something about the Selfish Gene just doesn't work for me...

On the subject of awesome science books, a great examination of human history is the book Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Harari. Using science to explain what the fuck we are doing. One of the most eye-opening books I have read in many years, I heartily recommend it... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapiens:_ ... _Humankind



I love how Erikson also uses powerful, vicious women in his novels too. So unusual for this sort of fantasy to have women as anything but princesses or witches. His use of race is also intriguing... Like you, I assume that everyone is non-white. But I cannot figure out the geography. I figure that Genabackis is further south then Seven Cities but both places seem to have the same basic climate... I guess its a large world, and I've explored about 1% of it so...

There's just aspects to the writing that frustrates. I also think the characters have unique abilities to communicate very explicitly but non-verbally. Eye contact. They also seem to be constantly getting shocked, widening eyes, breaking out in sweat... I guess their world does seem hellish and shocking at times.

Fucking great read. My criticism is tall poppy syndrome. I have never read something that is as dense and impenetrable. Almost every little bit of dialogue and passing observation is vital. I've enjoyed it and suspect I will be reading it for months to come

Have you read the Ian C Esselmont stuff?

Here's a(n unofficial) map of the world of Wu (also an unofficial name)


I've yet to really delve into anything by Esselmont (sans the first 80 or so pages of Night of Knives before deciding on something else). I think he has a new series starting soon about the early days of the Empire and I'll probably pick up that first book to see how he's improved since those 80 pages were a bit rough.

And as far as questions about things go, Tor.com's Malazan Reread of the Fallen is a great place for things to get cleared up. (I wish I could help you myself but it's been a while since I've read them and I've forgotten almost everything but the super big stuff)

^Cheers man, useful info. I actually don't want to get too much backstory in a way. I want to try and read it how Eriksen intended, which seems to have been to confuse the fuck out of me. It is like being dropped in an environment with no guide or friend- and that is it.



I felt that for Gardens of the Moon. He introduced so many elements early on that it stumped me. I gave up at first, well before the first 3rd but resumed it recently and persisted. Fuck, I am glad I did...

This is some of the grimmest fantasy I have read. Crucifixion of children?? So harsh. I'd love to see a film of this but I think it would be utterly baffling or totally underwhelming...

Yeah, that's how I did it too, with not looking anything up. There's probably a whole bunch of shit I misinterpreted as a result, but ah well. Someday I'll get around to a reread.

But yeah I feel you about Gardens of the Moon. It was the first fantasy novel I'd ever read and I had no idea what I was really getting myself into. Looking back, it's probably the worst series to start with. I thought all fantasy was going to be like it with how imaginative it is and with the awe-inspiring battles like the one outside of Pale. Sadly, that's not the case.

And welcome to the Malazan fandom (Malazdom?) Happy reading.

^Yes, I would call myself a Malazfan, to be sure...

Oh my god, just finished Atonement. Most overrated novel of the 21st century?

You've only got yourself to blame.

What was wrong with it? I have The Innocent sitting on my shelf, but haven't read anything by McEwan yet.

Beautiful prose. Natural dialog. Interesting-ish characters.

But all with a contrived story that felt meticulously planned out in a laboratory and containing the most preposterously cynical, obnoxious ending I've read since an ex forced me to read Nicholas Sparks. The ending not only completely nullified arguably the best part of the book, but pretty much the only purpose it served was to make you, the reader, feel as wretched and morose as humanly possible. I actually enjoy 'misery porn' to an extent; House of Sand and Fog and Melancholia are two of my favorite modern movies and novels like Flowers for Algernon and Grapes of Wrath have even pulled me out of depressive stupors. But Atonement put far more emphasis on the 'porn' part because about the only thing you could take away from it was that "sad shit happens. especially during war. and there's nothing you can ever do about it."

I'm not going to say the book doesn't have its finer points, because it does, but I will say that I'm horrified that so many people put this novel on the same level as the best of John Updike or Philip Roth or Arundhati Roy or even fucking Jonathan Franzen. That's just wrong.

Ayy, would any of the regulars in this thread be interested in making a kinda loosely organised MA reading group? I feel like it'd be nice to have some guaranteed common ground with what we're all reading, and the best way to do that is by just all reading the same book every couple of months.

-How would we choose what books to read?
-Should it be in a separate thread?
-Is anyone actually interested?
-How frequently should we all read the same book?
-Should there be some situation whereby we ask and discuss questions about the books, or just a free for all?

If you want to do more than simply communicate via thread, it could be cool to start a M-A book club on Goodreads.

I'd like to say I'm down but I know I probably won't be interested in anything other people on here want to read.

Anyways, add me on Goodreads

Finished "the city and the City". Actually really liked that, probably the most complete and finished feeling Mieville book I've read with the exception of Perdito St. Station. the whole deal with Breach reminds me of the Warhammer 40k inquisition a bit actually.

Yeah. FYI faðer is the original english spelling of father (pronounced the same). Pretty much all Germanic languages are super simple to compare.

Eh, I was thinking just communicating through this thread would still be fine, but I just made a Goodreads profile and that sounds good as well.



I dunno, judging by your profile you seem to be into mostly fantasy/sf stuff. With a few exceptions I'm not particularly into the style, but people seem to discuss it pretty regularly in this thread. Anyway, just added you.