The tower/spire scene with the lake on top and the harpies flying around it is pretty much the coolest scene ever.

Yeah, that was cool. But whyyyy did both Gylf and Org sit out that final fight? Org basically just totally disappeared as far as I can tell.

Anyway basically Wolfe is a genius but at the same time he's got a lot of flaws as a writer that are usually rendered completely irrelevant by the nature of the books he writes. Kind of bland characters don't matter that much if insane shit happens to them, and while tons of crazy shit happens to Able, not that much weird stuff really happens to most of his followers to make them stand out, and the more simplistic nature of the story makes their inclusion and lack of ends to their stories bigger issues here than in weirder books. The dialogue is also really dry in the Wolfe stuff I've read, which usually serves as this sort of grounding bit of normalcy when there's chaos going on in the story, but in Wizard/Knight there are just long stretches of dialogue that advance the plot that I felt became a bit tedious, like Able sending people to fetch other people and them explaining that someone else went to fetch that person only they haven't seen him in a while and ugh. Again, beneficial in crazier stories but I'd love just a bit more color in the actual dialogue bits in this book.

As for the badassery...well, I just wanted more of it! It sucks that Able gave his bowstring to Vil and didn't have it for a long time, because the bonkers shit where he nailed dudes to trees and shit with his ridiculous bow were super cool and I wanted more of that in the second book. I wanted Able riding on a fully-grown Cloud just blasting arrows through crowds of Osterlings or whatever cool shit. There was some, sure (Cloud impaling elephants and shit) but I wanted moooooooore.

Anyway now I'm about a quarter of the way through The King of Elfland's Daughter and it's pretty great so far. I do kind of hope there's a bigger conflict on the horizon but so far I enjoyed the pretty bits at the beginning, the overall poetic quality to Dunsany's writing, and also the plain old silliness of that troll jumping all around and having goofy conversations with animals/people. That troll is an 11/10 character for sure.

I see now that I didn't make a post when I finished Book of the Long Sun, but I finished it, and wow. The last hundred pages were a bit difficult to follow due to gaps in the narrative (especially the thieves on the gondola) and the sheer number of characters involved, and my copy at least clearly had typos which made it more confusing (the name's Maytera Mint and Maytera Marble were switched a few times, such that it seemed Mint was in the gondola and Marble was on the ground negotiating with the Trivigaunti generals---this really baffled me until I realized it was a typo), but it was an immensely satisfying conclusion all around. Lots of political intrigue and espionage in a science fantasy setting, really good stuff. The two-part epilogue was great, Horn looking up in the sky and seeing you know what was pretty moving.

I correctly guessed early on that but I'm still unsure what is the exact connection between the Long Sun and New Sun books. In New Sun there is an incredibly brief, one-line reference (seemingly almost a throw-away line) to and I'm guessing that , but it's not made clear in Long Sun if that's true. I liked that actually, it's a perfectly self-contained story that you can read on its own without reading any of the New Sun books.

Patera Silk is probably one of my favorite fictional characters now, which I was totally surprised by given he is a priest and I'm very non-religious. He's certainly a much more likeable person than Severian was.


One thing I didn't like about the series: that damn cast of characters at the start of books 2 through 4. The descriptions of many of the characters contain huge plot spoilers, and they're right at the start of the books. I stopped reading them halfway through the cast of characters for the second book. When I finished book four I went back and looked and sure enough, the cast of characters for Book 4 completely spoils major parts of the epilogue (the inhumi, where Auk goes, etc). Eeeek, not good.

I'm reading The Book of the Short Sun now and enjoying the return of a first person narrative to the series. I'm a bit less enthusiastic about the narrator seemingly giving away major revelations of later parts of the story very early on, but whatever. Overall I'm enjoying it so far. I'm about halfway through the first book, the introduction of Seawrack.

Stephen Baxter - The Time Ships
This is an official sequel to Wells' The Time Machine and even though I thought that's a bit goofy, it was actually pretty cool. Typical Baxter; big, mindblowing concepts about mankind's deep future development and fate written in a relatively easy style that's however occasionally dragging and clunky and prone to overuse of pseudo-philosophical introspection (though the attempt at quaint turn-of-the-century English -which I assume is meant to harken back to the original novel- works surprisingly well, apart from a select few passages that feel shoehorned in). A fun ride overall and I'd say a successful attempt to expand on the original without feeling unnecessary or like a completely different, awkwardly appended story.

Currently reading: Jaynes' The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind & John McWhorter - Language Interrupted

A bit late to the Ursula Le Guin discussion but I actually just read my first book of hers, The Left Hand of Darkness, about a a human enjoy who travels to the planet Winter to try and get the population of the planet to join a galactic federation, of sorts. The envoy has a lot of trouble dealing with and relating to the people of Winter primarily because they don't have a fixed gender, but instead go through monthly cycles turning from "male" to "female" repeatedly, although they themselves don't have the same concepts of male and female. That's the basic backdrop, but the actual story gets more and more exciting. I really liked it and would definitely read more from her. Thought provoking and also suspenseful.

I'm now finally getting around to reading Art Spiegelman's Maus, which I got for Christmas and which has been on my to read list for years and years. I just read the first volume in one sitting yesterday and will probably read all of volume two today. Really great so far. Obviously very heavy and tragic, but also accessible and engaging.

Other than that my girlfriend and I have been reading short horror stories to each other lately out of a old anthology. Mostly classic Edgar Allen Poe stuff, some Ambrose Bierce. Can anyone recommend good Cthulhu Mythos stories to someone who's already read everything by Lovecraft? I keep meaning to check out Mythos stuff by other writers but always figure that noting will really compare to Lovecraft himself.

I like this one a lot:

http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm

Cold War arms race meets Cthulhu mythos - results are as you'd expect. It's fascinating how Stross maintains the Lovecraftian mystique by switching the typical remote isolation and cult secrecy for military secrecy and covert surveillance. Instead of ancient bas-reliefs in remote temples that hint at horrible truths, there are grainy photos taken by spy satellites that hint at horrible truths. It's a neat trick and it works well.

Can we talk about IT by Stephen King for a moment. More so the language used. I'm not sure if it was the drugs or Stephen King was pissed about something, but the use of edgy language to the point it's impossible to ignore. Where every second word is some homophobic slur? I don't fear IT but I'm utterly disgusted with the people contained.

Continuing on the reading train, and I don't plan on getting off! Finished The King of Elfland's Daughter and...solid three star book I'd say? The writing is absolutely gorgeous, really pretty prose. I can see how Lord Dunsay's earlier short stories must've been a huge influence on Lovecraft, and then naturally how this flowery, descriptive writing style would've been a major factor in the writing style of Tolkien and others. The story itself is pretty thin, though; not a whole lot happens, really, which would be more forgivable if the characters were deeper than they are. It's a quick read though, and really enjoyable just to see the magic in the prose, but not something with a lot of staying power as a story.

Now I'm about a quarter into Blood Meridian and FUCK. Easily the most visceral, brutally violent thing I've ever read. I like it, I guess, but at the same time reading stuff like this does make me appreciate writing with a bit more mystery and magic in the writing all the more. I'm excited to see what happens, but at the same time I'm looking forward to crawling out from under this gore for whatever I read next. Probably something sci-fi. Any of you guys read Station Eleven?

Three stars for Lord Dunsany? Jesus Christ.

The story is paper-thin! I like Tolkien's prose just as much but his stories and characters are fantastic. It's just no comparison for me. He gets no points just for being influential!

Anyway I think I'd like him a lot more in smaller doses. Those Dunsany-esque early Lovecraft short stories are really great, so I could see Dunsany himself also doing even better in that context. I'll get myself an omnibus and read more at some point.

Man I love Tolkien but his prose is dogshit compared to Dunsany's, which is still better than most other authors fare. Fuck influence, fuck story, fuck characters, nobody who's ever written fantasy (or likely ever will) is as good a stylist as he is.

That said, he is at his best in short stories.

Yeah, I just think my major gripes with the book stem from there 1) not being much of a conflict in need of resolution and 2) the lack of character-building which would've been fine in the case of a stronger overall story but also if there weren't characters that were just BEGGING for stronger characterization. Like, Orion gets built up into this pretty cool realm-bridging unicorn hunter, but he doesn't really face any conflicts (other than how to hunt unicorns better?) and doesn't really matter except as a means of causing more magical shit to start appearing in The Fields We Know (TM). I mean, the whole concept of his character is intriguing but not enough is done with him on a character level.

And I would argue that Mervyn Peake's prose is even better than Lord Dunsany's, and his books have an amazing story AND amazing characters, if that's a better comparison for you than Tolkien.

This was really good, thanks! Do you know more stuff by this guy? Apparently he has long running series with the same themes, The Laundry Files, but I'm not sure what I think about 7 or 8 books in this style. Can he keep it up or does it become watered down or repetitive etc.

Razakel, I have some mythos compilations with short stories by loads of different authors, I'll look into them and recommend the best ones. And though it's not strictly Lovecraftian, in that it's not set in the mythos universe, I'm quite fond of Laird Barron who've managed to build up his own cosmic horror universe. He has some great compilations of short stories and the one novel of his I've read, The Croning, is awesome too. If you're into comics at all you should really check out Neonomicon (including the short The Courtyard) and Providence by Alan Moore, which I think are really really good, and maybe even Locke and Key, which is great too, but with less Lovecraft influence.

Honestly, that was my only gripe with the book. He REALLY overused that term.


I still don't think so, but Peake is closer for sure. Again, when I say Dunsany is a better stylist, it's like saying winning two billion dollars is better than winning one billion dollars. Also The King of Elfland's Daughter was the first Dunsany I read, back in like 2007, and in the meantime I've read literally hundreds of his short stories (many are very very short), so it's hard for me to remember how good his style was specifically in that novel. I will say for certain that his short stories are better in general - it's mostly what he wrote.

There are a ton of different collections, but I would HIGHLY recommend getting this omnibus in particular.

It collects pretty much all of his Pegana mythos stuff, and a lot of other stories besides.


No idea! Aside from that story, I've only read Charles Stross's cyberpunk stuff. He's a generally reliable author, though - Azmodes and I have talked about him before and while he's not always great, I don't think he's really let either of us down.

Thanks to you and failsafe! And yes, huge Alan Moore fan and think his Lovecraftian stuff, especially Providence, is amazing. It's been so exciting following that series and I can't wait to see how it all wraps up in the final issue. Surely the deepest, most thorough Mythos work I can think of, and so unpredictable. The most recent issue might have been the best yet, too.

I've been waiting to read it until it's finished! Also Locke and Key started strong but finished weak, imo. Worth reading I guess but kind of a letdown.

Ok you had me going in the first paragraph, then some fiction novel about pretend real life... idk

I'm a real Satanic Poet, I have two years of university in psychology, and am going for another two more, after a, 6 year break. I worked my conscience out trying to improve my meter, have gotten early successes, but a lot of attempts and lack of motivation in between. I'm now onto my third official work, which is a book of psychology, while the two first were poetic. I mean, not 300 pages each, but still stand alone works.

If anyone dare start me off with a stylistic rhyme, I shall continue it and expound upon it, but I doubt I would like your style, be very clever. Although in my works I am rather Miltonic and non-rhyming.

what are you on about

Anyway, to update, I had ended up scratching off The Stars My Destination as well and had finally decided on Dostoevsky's Notes from the Underground, something I've been meaning to read even more eagerly. Just finished it now and the "twist" at the end really reminds of something my dad would do on rare occasion, so the point really hit home for me. A stunning insight into the mind of a passive-aggressive individual, amazing for a piece of 19th century literature really.

wat

Careful guys, he's real Satanic Poet.

...are you challenging us to a rap battle???

Just finished Prince Lestat and the Realms of Atlantis, the latest vampire output by Anne Rice. Aaaand....

I read the spoiler. Bwahahahaha.

Can't wait for Bret Easton Ellis' New American Psycho where Patrick Bateman is a Yeezy hoodie wearing Trump supporter/Youtube vlogger that works in Silicon Valley.

The worst part is, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure did it 30 years ago.

just started Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, never got around to reading it. Feels like a nice return to dry British comedy after not reading any Terry Pratchett for a while.

I finished Blood Meridian yesterday and haven't started another book yet because I can't stop spending my normal reading time instead reading discussion about this book. Goddamn. 5/5 phenomenal stuff for sure, which I really wasn't expecting. The only McCarthy I'd read before is The Road, which I liked tonally and conceptually, but the sparse writing seemed overdone, if that makes any sense at all. Trying too hard to be minimalist in a way that really annoyed me.

But Blood Meridian though, holy fuck. At first I wasn't sure if I actually liked it...it almost seemed like literary torture porn at first but which was far worse than that because it was just so relentlessly casual in its violence, which was extreme beyond measure. Easily the most gory, brutal thing I've ever read, in a truly unsettling way. But over time, as the poetry of the prose, the Faulknerian (or is it anti-Faulknerian?) majesty came rolling in, I just got completely absorbed.

There was ONE point that I, at first, disliked:


So it dawned on me, this is a book not about good vs. evil or anything like that, or man vs. man. vs. nature like in Faulkner's best work. This is about violence and civilization, the relentless drive for civilization's calculated violence to obliterate the wanton, nihilistic destruction of nature. The way the judge seemed to be this being of logic, a manifestation of man's ego and power-lust, was set at odds with the instinctive animalistic violence of the untamed west is just pretty fucking glorious if you ask me. It's bleak as all hell and hard to stomach, but I think is powerful look at human nature, Manifest Destiny and how it resonates in the human experience worldwide. And as bloody and brutal as I've made this out to be (and it is, for sure), the beauty of the writing and the environments the characters traverse, even when they're essentially hell on earth, helps to offset the quease. Mandatory reading.

Yay, more Blood Meridian discussion, been some time since it's popped up! I'm on my way out the door for some local death metal bands (the kickass Deiquisitor and the Undergang-related Phrenelith), but if you've been reading notes on it, I can recommend these videos from a Yale litt class. Will return for the discussion tomorrow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgyZ4ia25gg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZFmf4T5L3o

The epilogue basically says this. It's a man building fences and expanding civilization, and the way that it is framed definitely support this point of view as well.

lol

I finished reading Treasure Island last week. Excellent, fun little story. Robert Louis Stevenson was a master.

Since then, I've been reading A Tale of Two Cities, which also happens to be the first time I've ever read anything by Charles Dickens. Seems crazy, right? I always thought the names of his books sounded dry and uninteresting, but man, I was stupid. I'm loving this book so far! Dickens really had a unique voice and style, often very sarcastic and always witty.

To the person who just started reading A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: you're in for a real treat. I read this hilarious book at sea, in a small space with like five other people, and they must have thought I was completely insane. I've never laughed out loud that many times at any book before or since. I love how Adams relentlessly mocks his own characters.

god damnit lol, nice catch

Honestly I think the judge is less a manifestation of specifically man's ego and power-lust and more a sort of avatar of civilization and (western) society as a whole. Which of course stems from ego and power-lust, but also involves a lot of other things - if you actually read about the real-life Comanches, there's a ton of fascinating information on them that tends to get ignored by western society, or sidelined in favor of more "civilized" Native Americans who built structures and had agriculture. The "Noble Savage" trope is of course a myth, but it's been well-documented that white children abducted by the Comanches (and other tribes) and raised as one of them would later resist 'rescue' from white Americans, and try to escape at every opportunity. While the reverse situation - Native American children captured and raised by white Americans - would, when 'rescued', quickly fall back into the ways of their people and never try to re-join western society. Benjamin Franklin of all people wrote about this phenomenon, among many others.

Of course there are tons of possible reasons for this, but I think a big one is that in hunter-gatherer societies everyone acts very instinctively - if you're hungry, find an animal and eat it. If you're tired, sleep. If you want something, take it. If you're angry, fight. If you're horny, fuck something. Every action you take has almost no remove from its purpose and reward - you eat what you hunt, you fix your bow so you can kill something yourself, etc. Obviously there's more to it than that, but compared to western society, which operated even then at somewhat ridiculous removes from humankind's natural state, hunter-gatherer culture probably represents an incredibly relieving un-knotting of the pretzels we have to twist ourselves into to understand, care about, and function in our society.

Take for example the instinctive, animalistic violence you mention of nature - it's fairly clear why the Comanches do the things they do, why the Yumas do. Why does the Judge do anything? His motives are almost incomprehensible at all times, except for one notable exception - the part where he first joins the gang, has them perform all these seemingly insane tasks (to the gang and anyone ignorant of chemistry, at least), and suddenly BOOM everyone has gunpowder and they're able to slaughter their pursuers. "Follow this insane logic and eventually you'll get a really cool reward" sums up society pretty well, I think.

That's a good example but the Judge clearly explains his motivations in several occasions.

I mean he clearly explains his motivations as HE sees them, but obviously they're completely illogical and incomprehensible (if you view him as a mere fellow outlaw).

I don't agree, it's very logical and comprehensible to me that someone would want to exert control over their environment. He has just taken it to such an extreme that is has become an obsession, and actually the defining core of his character.

So you think that drawing things lets you control them? Kay.

No? And I totally didn't say that either, or imply it. He is being poetic when he says that. "To know a thing is to gain dominion over it". I thought that was obvious to me.

I thought it was obvious that the "drawing something gives you power of it" was the illogical part, not the part about wanting to have control over his environment.

Drawing something gives you power over it is a simplification of what he means. He is referring to knowledge in general, and the power that it gives you over the things of which you are knowledgeable about. That was the obvious part to me.