Either you're actually stupid or you're a troll, and either way this is one of the grossest things I have read. If you agree that war is terrible, then what possible reason could you have to support an unprovoked invasion like this? There is literally nothing to agree with or side with Russia on, there is no nuance to their actions right now, this is purely a violent attempt to grab more power.

I can think of very few reasons why someone who isn't a terrible person would say this.

In Athens there was a good big demonstration that started at the Russian embassy and ended at the American. This was to show that they take the side of the peoples, and do not take the side of any imperialists, neither Russian nor Western:

There are no reasons.

The actions of Putin have killed thousands of civilians, injured many more, burned down hospitals, destroyed people's homes and sent at least many millions from various countries into a state of anxiety. Even if he achieved what he wanted in terms of control of Ukraine, his crimes against humanity and the damage done to millions of innocents would forever remain on his conscience, and he should be haunted by it for the rest of his life... though I hope he hasn't got long left. He deserves to suffer a brutal murder - others have suffered exactly that because of him and he is a danger to us all... so why shouldn't the same be done to him? He is an evil mass murderer and terrorist who should be destroyed. The world is a better place without him, and the same for those supporting and obeying his commands.

The power of nuclear weapons is very scary... I actually am scared out of my mind that we may see a nuclear bomb dropped. It is absolutely fucked up that such untrustworthy and sick people have any say at all on nuclear strikes, let alone ultimate access. I don't know what Putin is up to, but out of all people, he is one I wouldn't allow anywhere near the nuclear button.

Unfortunately, here in Italy there are a lot of Putin "worshippers". They usually are the same people who would like to get in a threesome with Trump and the corpse of Mussolini.

You're the first person I've heard say this.

Zurbum is probably trolling and I think we should ignore them. If they are not a troll... then we should still ignore them.

Even if we were to believe that he had good intentions - I've seen his actions being described as fighting Ukrainian Nazis, fighting the Deep State that protects an international cabal of elite pedophiles, or fighting back against US imperialism - there is nothing that justifies such a brutal attack on another country.

As for the nuclear button, I hope someday SOON people will realize that mutually-assured destruction isn't viable anymore (never was). Some countries let literally any dumbass sit on the trone with the finger on the button, while others have let an authoritarian madman in charge of such an arsenal. And none of the countries "in between" are actually protected from one or the other - any nuclear power could some day have its own Trump (hot-headed imbecile who wouldn't know the consequences of launching a nuke) or its own Putin (megalomaniacal sociopath with a decades-old grudge) or someone even worse. What Putin showed is that it's only a matter of time. Not "if", but "when". It's like the Yellowstone volcano, except we can actually do something about it, and it's probably more likely to happen in our and our children's lifetime, even if only slightly so.

I'm sure you consider yourself an "antifascist" while voting PD )

Can you at least describe your motivation for supporting this regime. I'm just curious what your angle is before you get banned for being a Putinazi.

at work now

Like polpet wrote, there is a huge Putin supporting movement among the public opinion here in Italy. The fauna of this movement ranges from the nazi/pro-Trump/anti-vaxx lunatics to a large portion of the far left political parties (such as PCI - Partito Comunista Italiano) that see in Putin a bastion against the US capitalistic imperialism. I guess Zurbum belongs to the second group.

Just when you think things are dark enough, you get a post like this to remind us all that it is even darker than we'd thought.

I can tell you that people on thedonald are ecstatic about what's happening in Ukraine. They see Putin as the only leader left willing to take on globohomo and islamocommunism.

Apparently Tucker and Tulsi Gabbard have started changing their tune about Russia just as soon as Russia was cut from SWIFT... Coincidence, or evidence that they are on the Kremlin's payroll? In the parlance of right wing agitators, "I'm just asking questions..."

I should make myself a fake ID card, labeling myself a Globohomo Field Operations Officer and ANTIFA Supersoldier.

I think you gotta go to the kitchen, it smells like something is burning. I can see the smoke from here.

By the way, I'm the black sheep of my family: while some of my grand-grandparents were used to kill fascists, I'm not that proficient in hunting rats. I prefer to have a laugh at them, their wannabe macho man posing, and all their silly rethoric about nationalism and the "strong man in command". Oh, and also their obsession about THE WHOLE UNIVERSE voting PD (for non Italian readers, it's the main center-left party; for extreme right/left people is the cause of all evil in the world; for those with a brain, is just the usual circus of politicians caring first and foremost about themselves, but not as bad as some other we had, even in recent past).

This is not about Russia, it's about Putin and he is on an increasingly lonely island now. I'm wondering, worried what his next move is.

Polling is dicey in a place like Russia, but I've seen figures (not from controlled media, mind you) that have shown that a whopping 45% of Russians even want to recognize Donetsk and Luhansk as independent republics. Every fucking Russian is related to a Ukrainian just a few generations back, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. A close friend who lives in Veliky Novgorod and studied in Finland is contemplating dumping his good career (very hard to get in Russia) and joining the Ukrainian army. He has a wife and two small children. And his entire professional circle is considering the same.

But it doesn't fucking matter what Russians think. Because Putin and his inner circle have nothing but hatred for Russians.

There are scores of stories of ex-pat Ukrainians living across europe, leaving behind promising careers, heading back home to defend the motherland, to the bitter end. Such folk have balls of steel.....they're a better man than I can ever hope to be.

I'm kinda confused as to what I think about this whole thing, at least in the sense of how I think it shall unfold, I don't even need to say Russia Is in the wrong here, that's just kind of obvious, Maybe this is some alcohol/cocaine and amphetamine fueled rampage on Putins Part? Who fucking knows, but I truthfully don't see any way the US will not be involved, not because I'm gonna sit here and blindly throw the "oh the US always sticks its nose in everything" card on the table, because that's really just a boring thing to say at this point, true or not, but I just don't really trust Russia to not advance further into Europe tbh, and eventually all bets will be off I think, not exactly hopeful thinking, but I doubt nuclear war is eminent, but then again Russia did kind of play this in a way where it appears that US involvement is inevitable, just in the sense of the rest of Europe kinda being caught by the short hairs, and unlikely to directly combat them in the sense of a full on war against Russia. I'm just kinda rambling tbh, but I'm actually trying to verbalize how I ultimately see this going atm.

Idk I in a sense trust the Russians even fucking less than I trust Americans, and thats actually pretty astonishing when I stop to think about it.

But, ultimately at this point, I'd say let it unfold there because you gotta think, how much of this is an inner conflict of that region vs how much is this something that'll go far beyond that, if that makes sense

Oh yeah, and by Russians I mean their government, so don't think I'm just generalizing lol

I think that this and similar bastards shall be banned immediately. There's no place for them in metal community

Greece has a very strong left, I wish there were more of this in other countries protesting the war..

There are only a couple EU countries with a largely negative view on NATO membership - Greece being one of them. It's not surprising we're not seeing similar protests elsewhere because in general the population isn't anti-NATO and don't see it as an aggressive outside force like Russia.

Lol, yeah that guy's a total fucking tool, my guess is unresolved sexual issues tbh, like you ever notice how people that support regimes like that always seem to have some desire to be controlled?

Enough of this. Let's not derail any further because of one putinist troll.

For those of us who want to do something to help Ukraine, financial or otherwise, https://helpukrainewin.org/ has a list of some ways to help.

Here is a pretty good video explaining Russia's decisions from a geopolitical viewpoint, meaning you consider the world and its geography like a chess board. It leaves out some personal aspects of people like Putin, who bears much direct responsibility, but I find it useful all the same. Especially the part about the flat European plain around the 6 minute mark is a very good explanation of why Russia needs to push its boundaries westward.

It's heartening to hear anyone in Poland is invited to the Ukrainian border to help with refugee influx and settlement. It's of course not so heartening to remember that Poland sent 15,000 troops to the border when middle eastern refugees were seeking the same.

A good piece with uncomfortable truths.

I feel it needed to be said. Doesn't mean at all that I'm not grateful that Poland is there for the Ukrainians. Good on Poland here. Good people do bad things, and bad people can do good things.

Very good! The video creates an understanding as to why things have gotten to where they are. As you said this is only geopolitics, other things influence this as well, but it's these kinds of videos that deepen our understanding of the conflict. Thanks!

Interesting video. By the end, I was scratching my head and wondering why China isn't considered the major threat. Are there any countries to the west that are interested in war and conflict, beyond wanting to live their lives they want to live and without manufactured and imagined conflict? Those countries aren't poking Russia, unless you think simply breathing is a poke. The first 14-15 minutes of that video would be applicable in 1822, but in 2022? Am I missing something?

To be fair, Ukraine's draft policy means high risk terror threats are less likely at the border... but it's not exactly by a lot.

Here's a new interview up at the New Yorker where a liberal NPC gets schooled by a Realist scholar (whose video on Ukraine went viral in the lead-up to the invasion). I'm not saying I agree with him but his argument that Russia is not aggressive but in fact defensive and has no interest in imperial expansion is challenging in a good way. How would y'all feel if China installed what the U.S. considered "puppet regimes" in Mexico?
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/ ... in-ukraine

My partner, kids and I have been discussing what to do if this looks like it's going to get worse. We've no choice but to assume the fear of a nuclear theatre is a real one. Fortunately we have money and have plans to relocate to the countryside in the sticks if things get worse. I genuinely don't believe that they will due to the mutually assured destruction agreement, but Putin is absolutely gone - you can see it in his eyes.

75% of Russian troops are allegedly already inside Ukraine, which gives a little bit of comfort to the fact that he's unlikely to take out his entire army, but he's batshit enough to not care. I am afraid, people. Stay safe. Remember you are all loved.

Very thought provoking and very good. Obviously the majority of the western world will have a hard time seeing the Russian actions as self defence (the whole NATO-line is that "Russia is not at risk - we are only a defence alliance"). But if you're on the other side of the fence it is quite obviously worrying to have a foreign military power creeping up towards your borders.

I think this ability to understand both sides is crucial. We don't have to agree with them both, obviously, but we really need to get away from the "he's crazy" or "he's mentally ill" type sentiments. It is really quite rare that people in high power positions do things only at the whim of their failing intellect.

This sentence is of course addressed to Americans, not us Europeans, but let me retort either way: you're muddling the very essence of this question with this part:

What right does Putin have to consider democratic nation states that have elected to become NATO members as "puppet regimes"? This goes directly into Putin's delusion and paranoia. Your metaphor doesn't resolve the underlying question.

Do I have too much faith in humanity to believe that Russian soldiers will just drop arms and tell Putin to shove it?

Couldn't agree more. However, do you feel like you understand the other side better now? Because I still don't, and I don't like it at all.

But can we agree that he's paranoid and delusional? Both are psychological/mental disorders. Just a more civilised way of puttin' (see what I did there) things, I guess. In any case, it's important. As William Pitt the Elder stated: "unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it", aka "absolute power corrupts absolutely". It's unhealthy business to hold such a position for so long.

This should need no reminder, but this is how Putin got in power: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings. At the very least, he has zero empathy, and that's bad enough.

I'll admit that the push to Kyiv shocked me. The writing's been on the wall for the separatist regions for a while--about 45% of the inhabitants are ethnic Russians and 70% are Russophones, and in fact east Ukraine overwhelmingly voted for the pro-Russia guy that got coup'd during Euromaidan. How do you think California would react if Mike Pence, along with the Capitol rioters, prevented Biden and held "new and fraud-proofed" elections, which this time registered a Trump win, and Biden fled for his life? Probably not very well.

Kyiv continued bombardment of the Donbas for 8 years, killed thousands of civilians, ignored the Minsk agreement and even the "peace" candidate Zelensky refused to talk with the separatists because, "We don't negotiate with terrorists." The separatists begged for Russia's help and the call was finally answered.

But to assault Kyiv is shocking and unacceptable, and may go down as one of the dumbest geopolitical errors in modern history. Though I'd still argue that floating NATO membership for Ukraine ever, for any reason was even dumber.

edit: west means east!