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Jackoroth
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:21 pm 
 

The first 3 Fear Factory albums are pretty solid in my opinion and I've heard them being lumped into the Nu Metal category so I guess so then.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:47 pm 
 

Those people must have the most broken ears ever then.

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Erosion of Humanity
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:06 pm 
 

I really don't understand why people always lump Fear Factory in the nu metal category. Is it just because they use synths in their music? I doubt it would be the time frame as they started in the early 90's and from what I remember nu metal didn't get big until the late 90's and early 00's. It's just something I've always wondered.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:22 pm 
 

It's because their stuff between Demanufacture and Digimortal was pretty bouncy.
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:26 pm 
 

It's got nothing to do with synths, which are after all not a part of many so-called nu metal bands. I suppose it must be the quality of the band's guitar riffs, which are a bit more percussive even in the early days and not very metallic. A lot of pounding on one chord, or chugging on the e-string (which is downtuned at least a step if not more), and not in a thrash way, but in a kind of syncopated way that mimics the attack of the drums. I don't really feel they have the stereotypical nu metal sound but I can see why they would be associated in some peoples' minds.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
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Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:37 pm 
 

Well, I've never really listened to any Fear Factory but back in the 90's I was vaguely aware of their existence and generally associated them with the nu-metal scene, due in part to seeing the video for their cover of "Cars" which just seemed like something a nu-metal band of that era might do (remember Orgy's cover of "Blue Monday"?). Plus their guitarist was a big fat guy with sunglasses and cornrows so I just assumed, haha.
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:06 pm 
 

Yeah; like I said, i think it's an understandable association even if they don't quite match up sonically. Also I'm sure some elements were there in the later albums; Obsolete is basically the last one I listened to.

How about Prong? They did legitimately start out in hardcore/thrash territory but some of their later stuff might take influence from nu metal. THey're a band I actually enjoy. "WHose Fist is this Anyway" is probably the best of all "90s dance metal" tunes. :P


ON the other hand the same record contained really annoying stuff like this:
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Oxenkiller
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:48 pm 
 

To me, both Prong and Fear Factory were sort of the precursors to Nu-metal. They were among the bands that influenced that genre, pioneered it if you will. Sort of how, you could say, bands like Blue Cheer and Led Zeppelin were influential to the development of heavy metal even though neither band could realistically be defined as such. I definitely hear some similarities to a lot of more recent mainstream "mallcore"/nu metal when I listen to Prong and Fear Factory, but both had a much more underground and less commercialized sound, and at that time, both bands were considered pretty unique and distinctive.

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Atropus
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Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:02 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:52 pm 
 

I'll keep my emotions out of this and be frank......

There's nothing in the music, image, aesthetics, atmosphere, or imagery that speaks to me. It's not my thing and not something I can relate to.

When I think of "metal", I think of music that brings to mind a dark, supernatural fantasy world filled with messages of constantly searching for a higher meaning in life in this boring modern world.

Nu-metal, along with grunge, alternative metal, groove metal, and metalcore, is the opposite of that. It speaks of mundane, everyday modern world issues in urban America that the "average joe" urban modern American can relate to, and the music/image/aesthetics reflect this.

This is exactly why I CAN'T relate to it, and also why it's so popular.

The same reason why "average joe" people can't get into metal or most of the other music I listen to. It's impossible to like something you can't identify with.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:12 pm 
 

I don't think it's about average Joes, just about rebellious teens. It was the "in thing" of the 90s.

Realistic, human themes are good to have in music; I get it's not everyone's taste, but nu metal isn't the best representation of it. Some bands, metal or not, can handle those themes really well.
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Dux_Saxoniae
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:56 am
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:17 pm 
 

AcidWorm wrote:
Nu Metal was my gateway to metal back in the early 2000s. Going back and hearing a lot of those albums now I used to enjoy mostly just bore me now and sometimes the vocals even annoy me... Now that my ears have gotten so accustomed to much more aggressive and heavier stuff in metal most of the nu metal bands sound watered down and boring. Even the stuff in nu metal that I still enjoy have lost a lot of the flair for me for the same reasons.

Yep, all of this. I was the biggest Linkin Park fan, but didn't get into too many other nu-metal bands as I was put off by the overt douchebaggery of Limp Bizkit et al. But I can't really listen to it now; it sounds tedious, derivative and just plain weak even compared to classic metal, to say nothing of extreme metal. (I remember that moving from Linkin Park to Iron Maiden meant a distinct uptick in heaviness.)

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MutantClannfear
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:19 pm 
 

Atropus wrote:
I'll keep my emotions out of this and be frank......

There's nothing in the music, image, aesthetics, atmosphere, or imagery that speaks to me. It's not my thing and not something I can relate to.

When I think of "metal", I think of music that brings to mind a dark, supernatural fantasy world filled with messages of constantly searching for a higher meaning in life in this boring modern world.

Nu-metal, along with grunge, alternative metal, groove metal, and metalcore, is the opposite of that. It speaks of mundane, everyday modern world issues in urban America that the "average joe" urban modern American can relate to, and the music/image/aesthetics reflect this.

This is exactly why I CAN'T relate to it, and also why it's so popular.

The same reason why "average joe" people can't get into metal or most of the other music I listen to. It's impossible to like something you can't identify with.

So you're saying you'd rather live in a supernatural fantasy world disconnected from reality than hear people talk about issues that are actually relevant to you? That seems extremely impractical. I mean come on, call nu-metal crap if you want to but you don't have to make up some silly story about how it's worse because it doesn't play into the overly dramatic themes presented by most metal bands. Metalheads tend to exaggerate just how supernatural the genre's themes are, anyways, or at least they seem to think that its disconnection from reality somehow makes it more worthwhile and then subsequently downplay the presence of supernatural themes in non-metal genres. It's rather frustrating stuff to try to read.

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Danthrax_Nasty
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:20 pm 
 

There really aren't many genres I dislike as severely as I detest 'nu metal'. I see it as more a product of capitalism than a legitimate form of self expression or art, or lifestyle, or even evolution there of. Or, to be more succinct, a venture of purely monetary interest. It's just meaningless garbage to occupy the minds of the simply satisfied and undiscerning. Might as well be dance music.

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Atropus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:02 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:43 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
Atropus wrote:
I'll keep my emotions out of this and be frank......

There's nothing in the music, image, aesthetics, atmosphere, or imagery that speaks to me. It's not my thing and not something I can relate to.

When I think of "metal", I think of music that brings to mind a dark, supernatural fantasy world filled with messages of constantly searching for a higher meaning in life in this boring modern world.

Nu-metal, along with grunge, alternative metal, groove metal, and metalcore, is the opposite of that. It speaks of mundane, everyday modern world issues in urban America that the "average joe" urban modern American can relate to, and the music/image/aesthetics reflect this.

This is exactly why I CAN'T relate to it, and also why it's so popular.

The same reason why "average joe" people can't get into metal or most of the other music I listen to. It's impossible to like something you can't identify with.

So you're saying you'd rather live in a supernatural fantasy world disconnected from reality than hear people talk about issues that are actually relevant to you? That seems extremely impractical. I mean come on, call nu-metal crap if you want to but you don't have to make up some silly story about how it's worse because it doesn't play into the overly dramatic themes presented by most metal bands. Metalheads tend to exaggerate just how supernatural the genre's themes are, anyways, or at least they seem to think that its disconnection from reality somehow makes it more worthwhile and then subsequently downplay the presence of supernatural themes in non-metal genres. It's rather frustrating stuff to try to read.


The adolescent themes in nu-metal AREN'T relevant to me.

I'm trying as calmly as possible to state why I don't like it, rather than the usual "it sucks/it's garbage/poser/faggot crap" people usually post about it, and you're giving me shit for it???

And no, the reason I got into metal wasn't just for the fantasy themes. It was more how they used that imagery to address relevant topics than the mundane way most modern artists do.

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Chainsaw Omega
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:43 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:03 am 
 

When I started getting into music around 1996-1997, I was very into Korn, Deftones, Limp Bizkit, Rage Against the Machine, and System of a Down. These bands were huge then, and being that I was 8 at the time, I didn't really have a whole lot of taste, though even at that age, I knew I liked heavy music. Once I discovered Morbid Angel around age 12 though, most of these other bands seemed unimportant.

Of those bands, I still listen to Deftones very frequently. I still put on SOAD stuff from time to time as well. Listening to Deftones with a more informed musical perspective, I can see how they got lumped in with nu-metal, but I wouldn't call them nu-metal now. From my current perspective, they sound like a heavier alt-rock a la Filter - Hey Man...Nice Shot who is very informed by shoegaze and goth rock. The down tuned guitars mask these other influences pretty well, and I think was largely the reason they were classified how they were. The drums had a good deal of groove, but I wouldn't in any way call them funk or hip-hop influenced like Korn was. Deftones ended up being massively influential to bands like Pelican, Russian Circles, Atlas Moth, and many other bands in the so-called post-metal genre, and listening to Around the Fur in 2013, it is obvious. I realize this sounds a bit like a fanboy justification, but I am secure enough in my musical tastes to admit if I like a nu-metal band, but I just don't hear it with Deftones.

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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:15 pm 
 

I don't know, I definitely hear a lot of nu-metal in some Deftones stuff, especially parts of Around the Fur. There was also the notorious "re-issue" version of White Pony that had a slightly different track list, including an opening track that was basically a nu-metal cover version of the last song on the album. Slightly hip-hop inflected vocals, big chunky groovy downtuned riffs, having a DJ as a band member...all pretty nu-metal to me.

Of course, Around the Fur had a lot of stuff that was really different sounding, especially "Be Quiet and Drive (Far Away)" and other than that shitty track on certain versions of the follow-up (which the band has said in interviews was just some shitty thing they churned out in the studio because the record execs were worried that the album didn't have a "single" they could market) they had dropped most of those affectations by that point in their career.

I also have trouble lumping RATM in with nu-metal. For one thing, their signature sound developed way before nu-metal really took off. More importantly, though, despite being a really groovy band with hip-hop vocals, instrumentally they're just not that similar to other nu-metal stuff.
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Atropus
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Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:02 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 2:35 pm 
 

One of the reasons I'm being polite here, it that I can give credit to RATM, SOAD, and the Deftones for being somewhat talented and original, but it's just not my thing.
Musically, lyrically, visually, I can't stand them.

I realize a lot of the younger generation here grew up when nu-metal/alternative metal was at it's peak.
I grew up in the 80s when hair metal was getting big, and most metallers hated that. I can understand, most of it was just distorted pop, but at least the musicianship and riffs were there.
Also, always being one with one foot in the goth and punk scenes, and hating absolutely everything to do with rap/hip hop culture, a bunch of dudes with big hair, makeup and spandex are much easier to accept than a bunch of skaters with baseball caps and baggy shorts, grabbing their crotch and waving their fingers in the air :p

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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:23 pm 
 

Yeah, Rage against the Machine may have rapping, but they indeed sound like a funkified Black Sabbath, and not nu metal. Still don't like them, but I suppose it's important to make the differentiation.
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Turner
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Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:47 pm 
 

Danthrax_Nasty wrote:
There really aren't many genres I dislike as severely as I detest 'nu metal'. I see it as more a product of capitalism than a legitimate form of self expression or art, or lifestyle, or even evolution there of. Or, to be more succinct, a venture of purely monetary interest. It's just meaningless garbage to occupy the minds of the simply satisfied and undiscerning. Might as well be dance music.


ahahahahaaha. i raise my chalice to thee, o discerning soul!
i love this kind of faux-snobbery, especially when it's expressed so poorly. brilliant.

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MutantClannfear
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:50 pm 
 

*gasps* Not dance music! The lowliest of all melodic constructions, for sure. :nono:

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TheLiberation
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:56 pm
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Location: Poland
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:53 pm 
 

Atropus wrote:
One of the reasons I'm being polite here, it that I can give credit to RATM, SOAD, and the Deftones for being somewhat talented and original, but it's just not my thing.
Musically, lyrically, visually, I can't stand them.

I realize a lot of the younger generation here grew up when nu-metal/alternative metal was at it's peak.
I grew up in the 80s when hair metal was getting big, and most metallers hated that. I can understand, most of it was just distorted pop, but at least the musicianship and riffs were there.
Also, always being one with one foot in the goth and punk scenes, and hating absolutely everything to do with rap/hip hop culture, a bunch of dudes with big hair, makeup and spandex are much easier to accept than a bunch of skaters with baseball caps and baggy shorts, grabbing their crotch and waving their fingers in the air :p

I know I sound obsessed with Deftones sometimes recently :P but they pretty much sound, look and feel nothing like any nu-metal band, sort of the same about SOAD. Their whole style, including lyrics and image, is pretty much like an alternative rock band with some slight casual metal feel or so. The "standard" nu-metal bands amuse me a lot, with the sports pants, hoodies and stuff.

Also I've been wondering for a longer while if the whole nu-metal and metalcore wave didn't really reach Poland or if I just managed to avoid it myself - while of course bands like Linkin Park also got massively popular, I've never had this "omg numetal everywhere" I've seen lots of people talk about. I liked LP, barely heard of Deftones, and pretty much the first time I heard Slipknot and Korn was somewhere around 2005 because I had a friend who liked jazz and nu-metal. :lol: As for metalcore, I honestly had no clue such thing exists before I started reading lots of stuff on the internet, which would be a few years ago. This is kinda why I don't get so annoyed with these two as many people seem to be, and been wondering how I managed to avoid that.
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lupin99
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:58 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:14 pm 
 

I was into Nu metal back in the day, not as much anymore because to me the majority of it isn't that good. Now I still like Coal Chamber, Sevendust, Mushroomhead, Ill Nino, and Powerman 5000, but the rest of it to me sounds absolute shit nowadays, it just hasn't age as well. I discovered bands like LOG, Meshuggah, Shadows Fall, Nile, Strapping Young Lad towards the end of my senior year (this was almost 10 years ago), and I grew out of the phase, within the last year, I started listening to a few of the bands that I still enjoy. Sure I will give nu metal some credit, it's a gateway music to heavier bands, some people will move on and discovery heavier bands, while others will stick with it forever and never expand their horizons.

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volutetheswarth
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Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:11 pm 
 

Deftones were more or less nu-metal until their self titled, that's when there was a big switch. These days there's barely any semblance to the bands former sound, which is a very good thing because I find their earlier stuff quite dated and lacklustre.
I heavily drifted away from nu-metal many years ago because as others have said, the music just isn't very good, it's very bland and clearly repetitive. Additionally, I dislike rapping in my metal (or any music for that matter), it sounds very out of place and can break a song within seconds. When you actually find good bands you never look back. The only bands I still listen to from that era are the ones who were questionably labelled nu-metal to begin with, such as System of a Down and Amen.

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Atropus
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Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:02 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:28 am 
 

The thing I can't stand about System of a Down is that the singer sounds like one of those loud, annoying, obnoxious comedians who try to make fun of the music by yelling over top it in a retarded voice......

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Manic Maniac
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Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:58 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:02 am 
 

Er, the band writes very serious, lyrical topics about government, drug use, & society. Those shouted vocals Serj makes a part of the expression. Does the Armenian accent give the yelling a more "Comical" sound to you? If anything, he sounds comical when he isn't shouting.
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Atropus
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:39 am 
 

He sounds comical because his voice is overbearingly comical and completely out of tune with the music!!
Every time I hear one of their songs, this image of Beavis & Butthead making fun of a video by obnoxiously trying to sing along to it instantly pops into my head

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Manic Maniac
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:47 pm 
 

Overbearingly? He alone only sounds comical when he makes wierd ham noises in songs like "Sugar" & "I-E-A-I-A-I-O." Many songs themselves sound comical on their own, with or without Serj. If you want a band that has a singer out of tune, listen to Scars On Broadway.
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Atropus
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:56 pm 
 

:lol: I think I'll pass

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Doomed Cowboy
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:31 pm 
 

The real question is, do you like metalcore?
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Atropus
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:42 pm 
 

(And Atropus runs to the hills)

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Manic Maniac
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:46 pm 
 

You make it sound like Metalcore is even less Metal than Nu Metal. I really don't see why someone would find it like that. Sure, some of the ones that have a strong Post-Hardcore influence will scarcely sound Metal, but in it's purest form it's quite metallic, & some of the Melodic Death Metal unfluenced Metalcore often sound even more metallic.
I've heard people make remarks like "Metalcore is just a faster Nu Metal," when in truth, the style & histories of these two genres are quite unrelated (though I have heard that some bands fuse the two genres.)
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Doomed Cowboy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:01 pm 
 

Manic Maniac wrote:
You make it sound like Metalcore is even less Metal than Nu Metal. I really don't see why someone would find it like that. Sure, some of the ones that have a strong Post-Hardcore influence will scarcely sound Metal, but in it's purest form it's quite metallic, & some of the Melodic Death Metal unfluenced Metalcore often sound even more metallic.
I've heard people make remarks like "Metalcore is just a faster Nu Metal," when in truth, the style & histories of these two genres are quite unrelated (though I have heard that some bands fuse the two genres.)

I just said it jokingly, I can't really say I have any real issues with metalcore other than it being a bit overbearing and full of unoriginal bands. And bands with names that are phrases, which I can't really understand the reasoning behind.

I just find it interesting because I've never really been around nu metal- besides a couple of big bands, I haven't even heard of any nu metal bands in comparison to metalcore bands.
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Atropus
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:09 pm 
 

Two different genres but for me, the imagery is pretty similar.

Unless it's a dark ambient album about dark urban landscapes, I prefer urban imagery just stay out of music altogether.....

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Yahko
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:27 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:53 pm 
 

My nu metal journey started around 1998, my brother and I really started to appreciate nu-metal when it came out because the current metal scene somewhat started to change. We were big fans of bands like Amorphis, Emperor, Cradle of Filth, Carcass, Fear Factory, Dark Tranqulillity, Paradise Lost, Dimmu Borgir, Bal-Sagoth, Samael. A lot of those bands changed their sound, some broke up, some didn’t release music, some released music we didn’t feel connected too.

So we started to look for something new and I guess nu-metal had that heavy sound without being satanic or nihilistic in a way. Considering we were growing up in Israel, metal wasn’t as popular as nu-metal was. So in a sense we would chill with the nu metal crew at skateboard shops. It was much cooler to wear all black dickies pants and shirt than a regular black t shirt and jeans. We discovered Tool, RATM, Limp Bizkit, Korn, Soulfly, Coal Chamber, Slipknot, Spineshank, Papa Roach, Ultraspank, Deftones, Mudvayne, Incubus, SOAD, Linkin Park.

It didn’t last long to be honest, by the time Slipknot released their Vol. 3: (The Subliminal Verses) in 2004, we lost most of our interest in it because it was almost dead. So it had a good run of 6 years between 97’ and 03’. Then we came back to discover metal bands like Finntroll, Ensiferum, Wintersun, Windir, Korpiklaani, Die Apokalyptischen Reiter, Children of Bodom, Soilwork.
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rbrnflms
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:35 am 
 

Crossbreed- Synthetic Division
Crossbreed- New Slave Nation EP 2005
Crossbreed- KE101 CD 2009
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Z0MBIE
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Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 8:00 am
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Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:16 am 
 

System of a Down, Korn and Slipknot were the first heavier bands I got into, in that order IIRC. I don't really listen to any of them anymore unless I get nostalgic, haha. SOAD is probably the one I like the best at this point. Also, I think Deftones have some pretty good songs, haven't listened to a lot though.
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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1183
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:08 am 
 

here's a couple of thoughts:

- even though i dabble in the genre a bit and they're considered one of the best, i can't stand SOAD. the music has no character for me. it just leaves me cold. and viewing the singer's wailing as anything but grating is often met with the "oh, so you don't like other cultures' vocal styles, eh hitler?" treatment, which is annoying.
- anyone else notice that tool somehow managed to get an upgrade from nu-metal to prog rock sometime in the 00s? not sure how it happened given stinkfist was one of nu-metal's early hits, but they got away with it scot-free really. they're basically nu-metal's radiohead or bon jovi. kudos, i guess. (i do think stinkfist is a fantastic track)

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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
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Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:26 pm 
 

You're nuts. Tool have nothing in common with nu-metal.
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Atropus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:02 pm
Posts: 679
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:17 pm 
 

Tool are alternative metal, so it's easy to understand the confusion.

I also think the whole "Tool are progressive" thing is really overrated. In my opinion, without their visual element, they sound like ordinary rock n roll.

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Metantoine
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Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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Location: Québec
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:28 pm 
 

Atropus wrote:
Tool are alternative metal, so it's easy to understand the confusion.

I also think the whole "Tool are progressive" thing is really overrated. In my opinion, without their visual element, they sound like ordinary rock n roll.

They really don't. Are you insane!!! They're one of the most original band of their generation.
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