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PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:08 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:26 pm 
 



Jesus.
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Dudemanguy
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:19 pm
Posts: 875
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:58 pm 
 

That is exactly why the police shouldn't ever be militarized. They're supposed be a civilian unit, and they shouldn't have access to any more additional arms than the common citizen can get.

Ugh, reading about stuff like this bums me out. Here's a link for anybody too lazy for google.
http://www.businessinsider.com/swat-fer ... est-2014-8

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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
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Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:45 pm 
 

PhilosophicalFrog wrote:


Jesus.

Jesus fucking Christ.... The whole world is on a power trip of massive proprtions.
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TheStormIRide
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Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:45 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:26 pm 
 

I try not to get involved with these discussions too often, because I tend to be slightly biased, but this is getting ridiculous. It's amazing how many forget the oath that they've sworn to uphold. People are allowed to gather and protest. It's a civil right that is supposedly protected by none other than the bill of rights.
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rexxz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:27 pm 
 

I actually saw that happening live last night. It was insane.

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TheStormIRide
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:38 pm 
 

I know there are two sides to every story, but all coverage I see of this shows that there was no reason to disperse the crowd. There was no criminal activity, no one was injured (until after...) and there were no exigent circumstances. This just reeks of over extension of authority and serves to make the rest of the law enforcement world look bad as well, like it really needs any more help with that.
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rexxz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:40 pm 
 

There's no justification, it's pretty plain and simple from all accounts. That's why they aren't out on the street today while people are still peacefully protesting.

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MetalCuresHeadaches
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:45 pm 
 

Dudemanguy wrote:
they shouldn't have access to any more additional arms than the common citizen can get.


That's so naive it's almost adorable. The common American citizen has access to semi- and fully-automatic weaponry at all times, provided they're willing to pay for it. Hell, I can walk into any gun store here in Florida and, provided I have a state ID and enough cash, I can walk out with a rifle or shotgun within a few hours.


Everyone wants to cry foul about police action, but we like to overlook the fact that these "peaceful protests" in Ferguson have also spawned massive amounts of vandalism, property damage, theft and arson. Not all the protesters are violent or unruly, but being prepared for the ones that are is a requirement of law enforcement. Surely if your business was being looted or torched, you'd be singing different tunes about police presence and force.
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rexxz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:47 pm 
 

Massive amounts? That's just straight up bullshit right there. And another thing, people should not value property over a life. The whole reason people are protesting is because of the boy that got shot. They haven't said a damn thing about what happened, are constantly contradicting themselves and refuse to cooperate in even the slightest to placate the community's need for justice.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:55 pm 
 

I respect cops as a rule, and I think people who say they hate cops are just being reactionary whiners, but yeah this Ferguson thing is fucking incredibly insane. It blows my mind that something of this magnitude has been happening for several days now in 2014 in the United States. I've not had the chance to read up on it as extensively as I'd like, but I was browsing some articles at work this afternoon and it just looks worse and worse - thankfully the Highway Patrol has been appointed by the governor to take over security in the area. I think things will mostly simmer down now.
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Adriankat
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:56 pm 
 

They're tear gassing the media...
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bassistneededlolnot
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:13 pm 
 

Police corruption always kinda hit home for me since I grew up in a rural community where a couple of select "men in blue" would routinely harass my friends and I without reason. I've said it many times before: cops should be required by federal law to wear cameras and record all interactions with civilians while on the clock.
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Earthcubed
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:52 pm 
 

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
Dudemanguy wrote:
they shouldn't have access to any more additional arms than the common citizen can get.


That's so naive it's almost adorable. The common American citizen has access to semi- and fully-automatic weaponry at all times, provided they're willing to pay for it.


Fully-automatic guns require a Title II weapons license that states are free to ban anyway. The cost of acquiring the permit is actually higher than the price of many pistols. Semi-automatic weapons are everywhere but even SWAT units usually don't have fully-automatic guns.


But regardless, I agree with the sentiment (that is, I agree to your general point and disagree with Dudemanguy). If we take that argument to its logical extreme we arrive at the conclusion that either a) the Army and Marines should be forced to invade countries or defend ours with shotguns and AR15's or b) Joe Sixpack should be allowed to hunt deer with a tank.
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Arkhane
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:58 pm 
 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/14/po ... reporters/

This might be the reason why the video in Frog's post exists. This one reports that a cop was hit by a bottle and that the protesters were actually rioting with molotov cocktails and such. The dude with the camera might have been in a seperate crowd after the police were already assaulted.

I don't get these riots, anyway. The report and witnesses say that the boy was assaulting the officer, reaching for his gun, and the medical examination even says the cops face was pretty beat up. So why the fuck is everybody throwing a fit because a little colored boy got shot for attacking an officer and trying to steal his gun?
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Numerator_41
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:01 pm 
 

Arkhane wrote:
little colored boy


Do you know what year we're in?
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Earthcubed
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:01 pm 
 

Because numerous witnesses say he eventually backed away saying "don't shoot" and only then did the officer actually shoot him.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:07 pm 
 

Arkhane wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/14/police-clash-with-michael-brown-shooting-protesters-in-ferguson-two-reporters/

This might be the reason why the video in Frog's post exists. This one reports that a cop was hit by a bottle and that the protesters were actually rioting with molotov cocktails and such. The dude with the camera might have been in a seperate crowd after the police were already assaulted.

I don't get these riots, anyway. The report and witnesses say that the boy was assaulting the officer, reaching for his gun, and the medical examination even says the cops face was pretty beat up. So why the fuck is everybody throwing a fit because a little colored boy got shot for attacking an officer and trying to steal his gun?


Have you just not read any news reports for the last two days? "Might be"? Of course it's the reason why...I mean why else would it be? It's been very clearly outlined that Mike Brown's shooting is why the riots happened.

I've heard the molotov cocktail thing too, but a LOT more about unarmed crowds protesting. That video Frog posted is proof some corrupt shit went down there.
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Erosion of Humanity
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:23 pm 
 

Arkhane wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/14/police-clash-with-michael-brown-shooting-protesters-in-ferguson-two-reporters/


Let me stop you right here. FOX NEWS is the most right wing, old rich white guy serving, piece of shit network out there. They will find a way to make whitey look like the victim.
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inhumanist
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:29 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
VoidApostle wrote:
Fill in the craters. :idea:

The point is that the methane has already been released, that is what caused the crater to form. And your idea won't work for methane hydrate in the Arctic Ocean either. And all of this is irrelevant anyway because as a species we're still stuck on talking about slowing the growth of atmospheric carbon.

It's not completely pointless. These humans will eventually decompose and by doing so, release greenhouse gases. Prevent those from getting into the atmosphere by sealing the holes airtight. :thumbsup:
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henkkjelle
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:33 pm 
 

Erosion of Humanity wrote:
Arkhane wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/14/police-clash-with-michael-brown-shooting-protesters-in-ferguson-two-reporters/


Let me stop you right here. FOX NEWS is the most right wing, old rich white guy serving, piece of shit network out there. They will find a way to make whitey look like the victim.


But Erosion, it's always the fault of the blacks. What were those poor officers to do? Try and talk to the crowd? They would have been shanked immediately! And god forbid they tried to actually communicate with the people they vowed to protect. Far too risky! Hearing loss inducing robot shrieks surely are good enough!
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Erosion of Humanity
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:59 pm 
 

Thats what Fox News would have you believe. Let me tell you all a little story:

Black kid is walking home
cops pull up, "what are you doing?"
-kid reaches for phone, wallet, cigarettes, maybe he had an itch-
Cops: look out he's got a gun
bang bang bang
now where's his gun..... I swear it was just here... yeah I know he had a gun, he must've just done some Harry Potter shit and made it disappear.
Justified shooting.

White kid gets disgruntled over whatever the hell ails the upper middle class
walks into a gun store
buys an ass ton of automatic hand guns and ammo, nobody questions it
shooting rampage at a school or shopping center the next day cause poor whitey couldn't get any lovin from the bitches who should bow down and fuck him just cause.

How's about another story?:

-monday morning- this weekend in Chicago 20 people were shot and 12 died.
-random day of the week- breaking news bobby smith was just shot in white suburbia! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-three weeks later-breaking news we founf bobby Smith's shooter, hese gonna be put to death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-same broadcast- in other news another 20 people were shot and 9 killed this weekend due to gun violence in Chicago, mostly on the south and west sides.


Anyone else see a problem here :scratch: :nono:
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FasterDisaster
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Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:12 pm 
 

Numerator_41 wrote:
Arkhane wrote:
little colored boy

Do you know what year we're in?

Oh, I had the same reaction, but then I saw he was from Texas.
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henkkjelle
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:17 pm 
 

The whole "do you know what year we're in" thing is moot anyway. As, you know, this shit is still happening in this year.
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VoidApostle
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:31 pm 
 

If SJWs can use the term "people of color"...

And speaking of, can't you guys make a containment thread for the Ferguson incident? I've had more than I can stand from tumblr.


Last edited by Azmodes on Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Done! :)

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Arkhane
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Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1622
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:14 pm 
 

Erosion of Humanity wrote:
Thats what Fox News would have you believe. Let me tell you all a little story:

Black kid is walking home
cops pull up, "what are you doing?"
-kid reaches for phone, wallet, cigarettes, maybe he had an itch-
Cops: look out he's got a gun
bang bang bang
now where's his gun..... I swear it was just here... yeah I know he had a gun, he must've just done some Harry Potter shit and made it disappear.
Justified shooting.

White kid gets disgruntled over whatever the hell ails the upper middle class
walks into a gun store
buys an ass ton of automatic hand guns and ammo, nobody questions it
shooting rampage at a school or shopping center the next day cause poor whitey couldn't get any lovin from the bitches who should bow down and fuck him just cause.

How's about another story?:

-monday morning- this weekend in Chicago 20 people were shot and 12 died.
-random day of the week- breaking news bobby smith was just shot in white suburbia! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-three weeks later-breaking news we founf bobby Smith's shooter, hese gonna be put to death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-same broadcast- in other news another 20 people were shot and 9 killed this weekend due to gun violence in Chicago, mostly on the south and west sides.


Anyone else see a problem here :scratch: :nono:

Yea. Your doing what every newscast or biased reporter does, and picking and choosing what stories to focus on and which ones to conveniently put into a secondary comparison list to prove a point. If the cops were being assaulted, what does it matter what news station reports on it? What does it matter what color the boy's skin is? If he tried to grab my gun, which I had strapped to my waist for a reason, I would shoot him too, because who's to say if I let him live and he attacked me with another weapon, THEN got my gun and shot me? I'm not here to argue left wing/right wing bias, I'm trying to bring into perspective that assaulting an officer is one thing, but it becomes life and death when the firearm is at the center of it. That kid had no business reaching for the officer's belt.
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Earthcubed
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:20 pm 
 

I agree and if that is what happened then the officer was in the right---so long as the guy didn't back away and put his hands up at some point. Especially if there was a gap of more than a few seconds between that and the shooting, which is what some witnesses have said.
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Arkhane
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:52 pm 
 

I heard that bit too, about the boy putting his hands up at the last second. This whole thing is fishy, from both angles, because of how easy it is for both sides to lie. Whatever happened to that idea about officers always having a camera on their badge or uniform? I thought that was supposed to be in effect right now?
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Earthcubed
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:57 pm 
 

You're joking, right? Lack of recorded visual evidence is a persistent problem with allegations of police abuse and for some strange reason many police departments want to keep it that way. I wonder why...


That is to say: no, it isn't in effect, but it damn well should be.
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Arkhane
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Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
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Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:59 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Have you just not read any news reports for the last two days? "Might be"? Of course it's the reason why...I mean why else would it be? It's been very clearly outlined that Mike Brown's shooting is why the riots happened.

I've heard the molotov cocktail thing too, but a LOT more about unarmed crowds protesting. That video Frog posted is proof some corrupt shit went down there.

When I said it might be the reason, I forgot to say "It might be the reason why the riot police advanced on the crowd in Frog's video". I understand that the crowd in his video were demonstrating that they were peaceful. But I gotta raise the question on whether or not the rioters retreated into this crowd or something, or whether there is some sort of protocol that once a mass protest begins to spring forth rioters, they have to disperse everybody because of some "a few bad apples" guideline.

You know, I agree with Void. I think this should be in a separate thread.

Earthcubed wrote:
You're joking, right?

About what? I just said both the officer and the witnesses have the breathing room to make false statements due to lack of video/audio evidence.
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rexxz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:42 pm 
 

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Arkhane
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:28 am 
 

I just read all of the current witness accounts, and they all seem to add up against what the police department said. So there's that.
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Dudemanguy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:42 am 
 

I spoilered this for being a late response to a topic that really should be in another thread.

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
That's so naive it's almost adorable. The common American citizen has access to semi- and fully-automatic weaponry at all times, provided they're willing to pay for it. Hell, I can walk into any gun store here in Florida and, provided I have a state ID and enough cash, I can walk out with a rifle or shotgun within a few hours.

Everyone wants to cry foul about police action, but we like to overlook the fact that these "peaceful protests" in Ferguson have also spawned massive amounts of vandalism, property damage, theft and arson. Not all the protesters are violent or unruly, but being prepared for the ones that are is a requirement of law enforcement. Surely if your business was being looted or torched, you'd be singing different tunes about police presence and force.


I have no problem with people owning semi or fully automatic weaponry. There's nothing wrong with owning a shotgun either. That's fine. I have a problem with the police suiting up like it's a war zone, getting in armored humvees and then shooting tear gas into neighborhoods. Do you really think that you or I can just go buy all that stuff the cops were using in the video? Who knows how much military-grade stuff these guys have?

There is absolutely no excuse for what the cops did that night. There was no looting, no crimes were broken except for maybe some mundane city ordinance regarding standing on the road at night. They literally open fired into a crowd of civilians and gassed them, and they should all be arrested and tried appropriately.

Earthcubed wrote:
If we take that argument to its logical extreme we arrive at the conclusion that either a) the Army and Marines should be forced to invade countries or defend ours with shotguns and AR15's or b) Joe Sixpack should be allowed to hunt deer with a tank.

What? That's not what I'm saying. The cops are supposed to be civilians not military. The military can have their special weapons. That's their purpose. Surely you can see the difference.


Last edited by Azmodes on Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
Unspoilered it since it's a separate thread now.

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Azmodes
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:59 am 
 

FFA was getting a bit crowded, so here's a separate thread for all y'all. Keep it civil.
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ScratchMyBack
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:07 pm 
 

Image

Should I laugh? :ugh: Or maybe my PC-ness getting into me.

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Dudemanguy
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:19 pm
Posts: 875
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:49 pm 
 

Well, the police department finally released the name of the officer that shot Brown, Darren Wilson.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /14098369/

It seems like Brown and Johnson both stole some cigars from a convenience store and were primary suspects which is presumably why the cop approached them in the first place. As for what exactly happened after, that's still up in the air and there the two different stories. Wilson says that Brown attacked him and tried to go for his gun and the first shot went off inside the car. Johnson says that Wilson started the aggression against Brown and grabbed him through the window. Multiple witness all agree that Brown was running away and got shot a second time by Wilson. He then submitted and put his hands up, but Wilson shot him to death.

If that last part is true (which it seems to be), it seems pretty damning even if Brown did attack first and grab for the gun. The wikipedia article is actually extremely helpful and a good read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_ ... s_accounts

The good news is that the police has seemed to radically change their approach and have demilitarized themselves. Hopefully the violence is over.
http://mashable.com/2014/08/14/ferguson ... l-protest/

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narsilianshard
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:05 pm 
 

But even if he did grab for the gun at some point, he was unarmed when he was shot. I don't understand why the officer couldn't have tazed/maced/chased him. Fighting with a police officer should not end your right to life.
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Dudemanguy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:17 pm 
 

Oh, I absolutely agree. Perhaps, I wasn't very clear, but I meant that it was pretty damning for the officer (ethically anyway). He should be charged, at the very least, with manslaughter. But the big problem is that he's a cop, and they get away with stuff like this a lot.

It's not like the first shot in the car instantly killed him. That would be understandable, but Brown was already incapacitated on the ground, clearly gave up and yet his reward for that is to be shot multiple times to death in cold blood? That's pretty disgusting.

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CF_Mono
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:29 pm 
 

Erosion of Humanity wrote:
Arkhane wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/14/police-clash-with-michael-brown-shooting-protesters-in-ferguson-two-reporters/


Let me stop you right here. FOX NEWS is the most right wing, old rich white guy serving, piece of shit network out there. They will find a way to make whitey look like the victim.

No, they'll always represent the side of the white guy if the white guy is facing extreme double standards and accusations that prevent his side of the story from being heard on other news networks, which usually is the case. I just heard on their last night that they were upset that the police officer's name/explanation hadn't been released. Aside from that, a lot of them were huge proponents of Herman Cain before his scandal, and/or have had muslim or ethnic minority guests on who have minority opinions that people in their group typically have. I don't agree with Fox News all the time, and yes they represent a certain demographic, but they're typically better at not having biased language than say NPR or CNN. Have you ever heard anyone get drilled for answers or explain something objectively on one of those networks?
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Delta_Wing
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Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:00 pm 
 

narsilianshard wrote:
tazed/maced/chased him.



Hmmm. Well I guess in perfect world all that would have been great. How about if you don't fight a cop, or steal and beat up store clerks?? I have no sympathy for anyone putting themselves in that kind of situation regardless of race or creed. You made your bed and now sleep in it. These ghettos are war zones and the cops are under tremendous pressure. It's kill or be killed. Don't want a gun drawn on you act like a civilized human being. Easy enough.

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Dudemanguy
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Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:19 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:12 pm 
 

You don't even know if he stole, beat up the store clerk or was even aggressor at the cop.

What you do know, is that he was unarmed and had fully surrendered with his hands up in the air, but was shot multiple times until he died. Do you really think that's justified at all?

It also wasn't a warzone until the police started rolling in with armored humvees.

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