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Icsant3
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:40 am
Posts: 5
Location: Uruguay
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:53 am 
 

A friend of mine and I have decided to make a project for highschool about metal, its evolution and the community.
So, basically,we want to know how did you discover metal, and why do you personally enjoy it (along with maybe your favourite sub-genre/band). If you have any relevant information about how did a certain sub-genre evolved (which aspect makes it particular and what characteristics from other genres influenced it) it would be really helpful to us.
(FYI, we are already including "Metal: a Headbanger's journey")

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Manic Maniac
Grammaritically Challengated

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:58 pm
Posts: 184
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:23 pm 
 

If that's the film I think it is, than I wouldn't say Metal: A Headbangers Journey is a good source to use. Wikipedia is more acurate than that film. But hey, what do I know?
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4620
Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:07 pm 
 

There is no good, unbiased, comprehensive source on the evolution of metal. Unfortunately Wikipedia still has to learn that lesson. Ask 10 different people and they will all tell you something different. But 9 out of 10 of those people think Sam Dunn is a fool, so there's some consensus.
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Last edited by inhumanist on Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Animator
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:41 am
Posts: 298
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:49 pm 
 

inhumanist wrote:
There is no good, unbiased, comprehensive source on the evolution of metal.


Unfortunately inhumanist is right. Your best bet though, is asking people around here. Basically to find the origins of sub genres and styles requires looking back at the early bands that play that style and seeing which bands influenced them. For your project I would suggest not breaking things down beyond the 7 main sub-genres (traditional heavy metal, doom, speed, power, thrash, death, black).

I'm busy right now and there are people around here way more knowledgeable about this stuff then me. But if they don't feel like helping you, then maybe I will tell you what I know later on.

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Icsant3
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:40 am
Posts: 5
Location: Uruguay
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:08 pm 
 

It's a basic project, so I didn't plan on going deeper than the basic sub-genres, but now i feel i lack sources. I mean, I understand that asking people or wikipedia is more reliable, but certainly my teacher probably won't think of it as "reliable sources".

So, is there no documentary or book or whatever I can quote, for example, as to have a starting point at least? (and since you say dunn is a fool, i guess the same applies to his tv series metal evolution, right?)

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4620
Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:15 pm 
 

Haven't watched the show, but his "analysis" in M:AHJ was pretty ridiculous.
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Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?
CorpseFister wrote:
Personally, I prefer to know nothing of the esoteric hierarchy of MA and the profane rituals required to attain rank.

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Scorntyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:55 am
Posts: 1117
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:18 pm 
 

run a search on school projects on Metal and see what people have said. Tends to end badly.
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Icsant3
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:40 am
Posts: 5
Location: Uruguay
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:29 pm 
 

Well, thanks anyway, I have no idea what we'll do, but we'll figure something out. Besides, nobody in my class will know if we didn't just make shit up, which is apparently what we'll do (as, you know, everyone has a different version).
Plus I'm not sure what would be those "bad endings" you mentioned...


Last edited by Icsant3 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4620
Location: 50 Forts Along the Rhine
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:30 pm 
 

I can't provide any professional sources, but I think I can give you a basic outline of the origins of the metal genres:

Black Sabbath started heavy metal in 1970 with the self-titled album. There were heavy bands before but Sabbath's unique style (powerchord and minor key riff based) and outlook (being inspired by horror themes and their doom philosophy) made them stand out. In the mid to late 70's Judas Priest refined the classic heavy metal sound. At the end of the 70's Möterhead took heavy metal technique and combined it with punk rock creating a form of rough proto speed metal that pioneered extreme aesthetics and pretty much began the golden age of metal evolution. Later Iron Maiden introduced a bard-like approach, making metal more poetic and epic than what had been done before. I'm not quite sure, but this seems to be an important foundation for power metal. These are the three classic NWOBHM bands. One could also mention Venom who were strongly Motörhead-influenced but embraced the concepts of amorality and evil (although still tongue-in-cheek) and (to some degree) the attitude and rough production of hardcore punk which helped shape the sound of the extreme metal genres. Then Slayer happened. Although they are generally called a thrash metal band I would argue that they evolved from speed metal (Show No Mercy, Hell Awaits) to proto-death metal (Reign In Blood, South Of Heaven), developing technique that the more refined forms of death and black metal wouldn't have been possible without. They also pioneered death metal lyricism themed around the demise of society, torture, apocalyptic visions and so on. Also in the early 80's D.R.I. applied metal technique to hardcore punk, inventing the crossover-thrash style. Everything between xthrash and speed metal is called thrash metal since the late 80's. In continental Europe Hellhammer/Celtic Frost made proto death that sounded like a mixture of doom metal and hardcore punk and also experimented with atonality and harsh vocals which gave the music an extremely ominous character. Bathory on the other hand took a style very much crust punk like and with very low-fi and bass-less production and let it be guided by melody, celebrating the occult and demonic but in a less ironic way than Venom. They are widely regarded as the starting point for black metal.

That's about what one should know about the first 18 years of metal, even though most of it is debatable, as these things tend to be.

(btw I should start revising my posts before and not after submitting them - this is the final version)
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Metantoine wrote:
If Summoning is the sugar of fantasy metal, is Manowar the bacon?
CorpseFister wrote:
Personally, I prefer to know nothing of the esoteric hierarchy of MA and the profane rituals required to attain rank.

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Desperta_Ferro
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:45 am
Posts: 608
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:29 pm 
 

I made back in high-school two metal-related projects. I got a 10, the best grade in both of them, and the teachers, not metalheads (one was a fan of The Beatles), really liked it.
The first one consisted in picking a band and talk about the lyrical themes, image, history, members, etc, basically all about it. I picked Hermetica.
The second one, two years later, with a different teacher, consisted in picking a musical genre and explain all about it. I picked heavy metal of course. I kept it simple, just focusing on the general things and avoided the super-specific stuff only a dedicated metalhead would recognize. Heavy, doom, power, thrash, black and death. I provided a general analysis of the image and tropes of each subgenre. Included a sort of addendum for heavy metal in Argentina... and just now I notice that you come from Uruguay!

my "evolution charter" looked like this
Spoiler: show
Image


edit: The Sam Dunn stuff is not bad for people outside metal. He gets shit on dedicated circles... and that's is expected.

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Icsant3
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:40 am
Posts: 5
Location: Uruguay
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:58 pm 
 

Our plan was to keep it in the bigger ones, mentioning aspects and how they've changed (speed, lyrical themes, appearance onstage, singing style, etc) and influences from other genres, to keep it simple.
I think with the info you've given me we are ready to start, so thank you for the help :metal:

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2217
Location: At the bottom of the lake
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:29 am 
 

You should definitely consider musical interludes. And if Bathory is not represented at least twice, I'll give you an F. :lol:
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iAm
Wastelander

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:18 am
Posts: 5630
Location: West of the Duwamish due South of the Sound
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:22 am 
 

Desperta_Ferro wrote:
edit: The Sam Dunn stuff is not bad for people outside metal. He gets shit on dedicated circles... and that's is expected.

Hardly. He frequently gives misinformation such as Cradle of Filth being Norwegian.
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doomster999
Keeper of the Dreary Realm

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:58 am
Posts: 806
Location: India
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:17 pm 
 

Sam Dunn suffers from massive delusion. First of all he included Jimi Hendrix in the early metal section. Secondly, Cradle of Filth became Norwegian Black Metal, as iAm pointed out above. Besides, Opeth became 'goth metal' and Corrosion of Conformity 'metalcore'. Utterly preposterous.
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themicrulah
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:00 am
Posts: 1167
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:58 pm 
 

I can see the inclusion of Jimi Hendrix because the acid rock of the late 60s and early 70s had a big influence on the early metal artists. Back in those days, even Black Sabbath were called acid rock, right along with bands like Led Zeppelin. It's funny to think that a genre of music usually associated with being macho and drinking lots of alcohol has its roots in smoking pot and eating paper!!! haha.

It's also funny how homophobia is usually a metal stereotype but the studded leather of bands who nowadays would call themselves "black metal" whilst espousing radically right wing views get their entire image from Robert Halford and Judas Priest. Halford and co. used to dress like they were in Led Zeppelin back in the 70s, but Rob wanted to change the image of the band, so he decided to start wearing things that were popular at gay clubs in the United Kingdom.

Sam Dunn's documentaries can be cool, I've seen his "Global Metal" one as well as "Metal: A Headbanger's Journey". I think "Global Metal" is the better of the two simply because it shows bands playing metal from all over the world, but that's about it. There's definitely a lot of room for improvement within the field of metal documentaries.
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doomster999
Keeper of the Dreary Realm

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:58 am
Posts: 806
Location: India
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:52 am 
 

THEMICRULAH wrote:
I can see the inclusion of Jimi Hendrix because the acid rock of the late 60s and early 70s had a big influence on the early metal artists. Back in those days, even Black Sabbath were called acid rock, right along with bands like Led Zeppelin. It's funny to think that a genre of music usually associated with being macho and drinking lots of alcohol has its roots in smoking pot and eating paper!!! haha.


Never seen Sabbath labelled as 'acid rock' anywhere in primitive articles. They were labelled as 'heavy rock' and eventually 'metal' and 'doom rock'. Early 70's prominent bands that I've seen tagged as 'acid rock' are Blue Cheer, Blue Oyster Cult, Savoy Brown, The Doors, Iron Butterfly and Hendrix as you've mentioned.
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gomorro wrote:
Infact I use to have a relly hot friend from there but unfurtunetly the last party we have I was really wasted and grab her ass and it cause a huge problem. Her dad (that is a marine) wants to ripp my nuts... thinks are not the same...

Last.fm

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themicrulah
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:00 am
Posts: 1167
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:12 am 
 

doomster999 wrote:
THEMICRULAH wrote:
I can see the inclusion of Jimi Hendrix because the acid rock of the late 60s and early 70s had a big influence on the early metal artists. Back in those days, even Black Sabbath were called acid rock, right along with bands like Led Zeppelin. It's funny to think that a genre of music usually associated with being macho and drinking lots of alcohol has its roots in smoking pot and eating paper!!! haha.


Never seen Sabbath labelled as 'acid rock' anywhere in primitive articles. They were labelled as 'heavy rock' and eventually 'metal' and 'doom rock'. Early 70's prominent bands that I've seen tagged as 'acid rock' are Blue Cheer, Blue Oyster Cult, Savoy Brown, The Doors, Iron Butterfly and Hendrix as you've mentioned.


I remember reading it somewhere! They also sing about dropping acid in Fairies Wear Boots and Hand of Doom, so yeah.
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HokeyReligions_AncientWeapons
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:52 pm
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:13 pm 
 

I hope I'm not too late to give my input on this.

I would recommend trying to find as many primary sources for your research paper as possible. You can find a lot of interesting information on how bands viewed themselves and how listeners viewed and labeled them in 'zines and interviews. My favorite site for some classic 'zines are http://sendbackmystamps.org/ and a cool 'interview' is Fenriz's History of Black Metal. I would also recommend checking out Metalion: The Slayer Mag Diaries.

Your research will be a lot more interesting if you are drawing your own conclusions rather than parroting those who have already written about this topic. One thing that maybe be interesting to expand upon (or, depending on your research, shoot down!) is the way in which many genre terms are fluid and changing.

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rotwang
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:36 pm
Posts: 11
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:28 am 
 

Quote:
So, is there no documentary or book or whatever I can quote, for example, as to have a starting point at least?


Not sure how much reading you have time for, but a book that I've been perusing lately is Louder Than Hell: The Definitive Oral History of Metal by Jon Wiederhorn and Katherine Turman. The book is over 600 pages long and all of it isn't specifically relevant to your project, but certain chapters could provide some insight for you. One of the features I find particularly useful is that, instead of one person deciding to tackle and retell the whole history of metal, the book is told from the point of view of prominent musicians and others who actually helped shape that history. Basically the authors edited other people's stories and anecdotes in a way that creates a long narrative about the evolution of metal, so in some sense you're getting it straight from the horse's (compiled) mouth. I found a copy at my local library, so hopefully it would be easy for you to get ahold of.

Another book I'm also trying to read through is Ian Christe's The Complete Headbanging History of Heavy Metal. I'm still in the beginning of this book though, so I can't personally vouch for how useful it might be. It's been out for almost 10 years now and a lot of the information overlaps with what the other book talks about. Once I'm a little further in it I can give you a better idea of what it covers.

As someone who grew up listening to classical music instead of what most young people listen to, reading about the history of the metal has helped me get a better handle on how to navigate through the genre. Maybe it could help with your project as well?
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