Xenogears is next on my backlog chopping block. I'm at the part after you beat so I think I'm nearly done.

Beat Star Ocean and today after 3 long years, I finally beat Skyrim. Although I lost my companion so I'll have to reload an earlier save, have Lydia wait somewhere, re-beat it, and then make that my official save. It's super easy me being as OP as I am and the final area was just gorgeous so I don't mind re-doing it at some point.

Xenogears put me to sleep while I was playing it, with fucking endless dialog about crap I didn't care about. It got so bad it's literally the only JRPG I've ever played where I was actually hoping for more random battles and grinding. Got some 10-20 hours in, never finished it.

Well, the story gets really good (though a bit overambitious, they ran out of budget for disc 2 ), you need to give it a chance and get into it and the world, or yeah you'll be bored mindless. There's plenty of battling and exploring too though, the ratio gameplay/story isn't bad IIRC.

Almost done with Ys: The Oath in Felghana. According to the bestiary, I have two bosses left (two rows marked with ??? and based on the story I know who they'll be). Phew, that's one tough game. Very fun though.

And I think I know why Zelkiro said it was easy... I bet he grinded. I had a lot of trouble against a boss, I was nowhere close to beating her and was getting my ass kicked real fast. So I sucked it up and farmed for raval ore to upgrade my sword, ended up gaining two levels in the meantime. And then bam, kicked her ass first try and had plenty of HP to spare. Made a huge, huge difference. So yeah I guess it's hard but not that hard if you farm/grind...

Still can't imagine the game on Nightmare though, good gods. Normal is brutal enough for me.

I think I missed an item too. I'm at the end and there's one empty spot in my inventory. I revisited every area but found nothing more. No idea where that could be... maybe a missable. Boooo!

So uh... no discussion about the new Doom?

Nobody likes that lame shit!

Just got home to the news. New Doom turned out to be a lot like how I expected it to be. Linear level design along the lines of Serious Sam with gameplay influenced by Brutal Doom (turned up to 11). Honestly, the guys at id software owe so much to Sgt. Mark IV, creator of Brutal Doom.

It's pretty funny how this is the third origin story out of five Doom games.

Well yeah, they're not meant to be played by yourself... They're decent co-op games. Obviously, don't go in expecting a typical Zelda adventure.



Source? :\

From the tweets/live reports that were being posted. Apparently the game does have key cards, only instead of key cards, you rip a former human's arm off and use it on a hand print scanner. Maybe it'll be like going room-to-room covering the walls in gibs and then some puzzle solving and exploration in between those moments.

How long should I have to play before the story starts getting engaging? Chrono Trigger and FFVI and FFVII were exciting right from the beginning. I can't remember exactly what had happened by the time I gave up on Xenogears, this was some years ago I played, but I was at the point where the party got to this big cathedral and everyone started droning on and on about crap I didn't care about. Also, the main character having convenient selective amnesia was a massive turnoff for me. Fuck that plot device.

After dying to the first boss in Oath of Felghana like 8 times, I've decided that I don't like this game.

Ah, well, I guess that story isn't for you. For me, the intro grabbed me instantly. I love those disconnected intros that seemingly make no sense to the main story but later fall perfectly into place. And I really liked the world and setting so I was happy to just follow the story where it took me. And yes the hero with amnesia is generally dumb, though to be fair I think it was handled exceptionally well with Fei, considering.


Pussy. Git gud, scrub

There's always that twice-limited DSiware free release that added single player support (that I have) V:

HOLD THE PHONE MOTHAFUCKA

You think the carnival in CT is fun? God I hate going back to that. That and the early stages ... eh. I just don't suck CT's nuts like most of the world. Still love it, but I'd take a lot of SNES games over it. Yep, I just went there. Haha, but really I love it when you get to the future. But it still has some low points for me, I never really cared for the prehistoric stuff or Ayla, despite my love for dinosaurs and such usually.

The stuff with Fei is bonkers later on and everything adds up. Also were you LISTENING? That's good music unlike that water Zelda........

Like Morrigan though, I liked it from the start. So it's just completely hit or miss. The awesomeness is too much for some to handle...

How do the Might & Magic games compare to Wizardry 8? I've been playing the latter so much lately, with Planescape: Torment taking a bit of a pause due to it. It's quickly become one of my favourite games, and I know Might & Magic is similar. Is it as good? I'll be playing it after I'm done with Wizardry 8.

I prefer Wizardry 8 (that's one of my all-time fave RPGs), but both series I'm a long-time fan of. Might and Magic 1-5 = turn-based. 6-9 = free-roaming with RTwP combat (whereas Wizardry 8 is phase-based). Might and Magic 10 went back to the style of 3-5 (but with modern revisions). Wizardry 8's combat is a lot more tactical than MM6-9, but on the downside, its also a lot slower.

Might and Magic 6 is pretty fun - huge gameworld, tons of dungeons, and building your characters is pretty fun. On the downside, some dungeons are way too big and some are rather torturous (I'm still traumatized by The Tomb of Varn and Castle Darkmoor ), there are a lot of gameplay imbalances, and you only play as humans. Might and Magic 7 is finely balanced, you get 4 races, but the gameworld is a lot smaller and honestly the dungeons are pretty bland in comparison to some of MM6's. Might and Magic 8 was rushed, and I personally didn't care for it at all. By the time I was done with 7, I felt they did all they could with that engine. Which leads us to MM9... that game has a pretty bad reputation and its largely deserved. To be honest, that game was rushed out the door 6 months too early (this was when 3D0 was going tits up) and according to the designer, its a "pre-alpha at best". Some parts of the game were very good (the dungeons, mainly), but other parts were terrible (towns, overland maps).

Might and Magic X I did enjoy, but it didn't really *feel* like a M&M game (different design team). Blobbers aren't exactly common these days, so I'll take what I get. Combat in that one is a lot more tactical than MM3-5 and the fights are fewer and harder, unlike the ubiquitous trash mobs of its predecessors. Its grid-based (like MM3-5), but with smooth-scrolling. It has some performance issues, just as a warning (and it looks like they're not going to be patching it anymore). It may be worth a go if you can get it for cheap.

I'd recommend giving MM6 and MM7 a go, at any rate. MM3-MM5 I like a lot too (MM5 being my fave in the series), but those may be a bit old for you.

Hmm, the fact that it's real-time unnerves me a little. I've dabbled a little of real-time in Wizardry 8 and it's not too good. When it comes to party based RPGs, I much prefer it to be turn-based. But eh. So 6 and 7 are the great ones of the series then? Is there some kind of overarching plot to follow, or can you just pick up and play one without needing to play the ones before? Some of the older ones do look a little too old for me, but I got the whole series in a bundle, so eh .

On a related note, did you ever play Wizards & Warriors? I played it as a kid and could never figure it out, but after enjoying Wizardry 8 now I'm significantly older, I'd love to go back to it again. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem too available these days.

I'm far more fond of turn-based too - its not too bad in MM though. Some people use bows and play it as a shooter, which is something I don't care much for. There is indeed an over-arching plot (it roughly goes like this): Heroes of Might and Magic 2 -> Might and Magic 6 -> Heroes of Might and Magic 3 -> Might and Magic 7 -> Might and Magic 8. There's a link between MM3 and MM7 as well (not going to spoil anything). They then blow up the game world and start a new one with Heroes 4 -> MM9, then 3D0 goes bankrupt.

MM3-5, despite being really old, are actually quite fun and some of the more "user-friendly" games of that era. As strange as this sounds, I prefer their graphics to MM6-9 (90s 3D didn't age too well).

I did indeed play Wizards & Warriors - that one wasn't perfect, but I had a lot of fun with it. Its kinda like Wizardry 7.5 (its done by the designer of W5-7). Its gameplay falls between Might and Magic and Wizardry 8. I'm not huge on its combat, but you can slow it down so its almost turn-based. That one actually had some challenging puzzles (in comparison to other games at that time), and the dungeons were pretty big and confusing. The game was fairly challenging early on (combat-wise), but later in the game it became a cakewalk. Then again, I guess I bought it on myself killing NPCs and gaining a ton of levels.

Its a pity DW Bradley opted to make Dungeon Lords after that - what a mess that game was! If they haven't put W&W on GOG.com yet, I hope they do someday. That one is a royal pain in the ass to get running on modern machines though (I somehow got it to work on my old computer, but I forgot how).

Good point, hah. My eyes glazed over that part, since FF6's intro is all kinds of awesome, as is the early game section in general, but I forgot how dull CT is at the beginning
(the trial is the best part I think). I've always agreed that CT was a bit overrated though. It's a very good game, but FF6 is just so much better in every way...

M&MX: Legacy was pretty fun and the combat is good but damn, did it have to be so long? Fucking hell, I thought I was maybe close to finishing the game when it told me "Chapter 1 complete". I know some people like games that last forever but no matter how good the gameplay is, there is a time when you get sick of it. This is also why I like RPGs like Risen to the Elder Scrolls games. In an RPG I like a beginning, middle and end, done in no more than 10-15 hours, not an endurance test. Not killing endlessly spawning monsters and exploring yet another dungeon for loot to add to the enormous pile you already have.

I mean the carnival isn't the best but how long does it last, really? 15 minutes? As soon as you go back in time, CT rules. It's not like I played Xenogears for 15 minutes and quit, I gave it like 10-20 hours (I looked it up - I quit around the time I arrived at Nisan). Granted I'm not the biggest JRPG fan, but I've played plenty of them, so it's not like I was going into it with weird expectations. What I remember of the plot seemed like B-grade Gundam/Escaflowne type mech anime stuff, which I'm not the biggest on in the first place. Just not for me, I guess.

Also, maybe I'm alone in this, but the PSX JRPGs really haven't aged all that well for me. I'm the last guy to get all snobby about graphics, but the blocky polygons in the character models especially just bother me. Anything mechanical can look pretty good, and the prerendered backgrounds are usually fine, but the human character models just look like shit a lot of the time. Cloud's model in FFVII looks like a squashed Popeye, with these giant fucking rectangular forearms - I'll take sprites any day.

I'm one of those who loved the carnival in Chrono Trigger. Especially when the things you do at the carnival have significance in the main story. Fighting Gato was great. And Gato's theme and his cheesy little intro were great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7bV7hxXiPs

Drinking and dancing. Winning pet cats.

I thought the beginning was great cause it puts you in the role of a kid having fun. And who doesn't love the music?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqFbScj1mkM


Speaking of music, this theme from Xenogears is quickly rising to become my favorite. It makes you shiver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miOizLxOD4E





And it's not just the intro. What I love is seeing little things come together. Why is there a cross swinging on a pendulum during the story telling scenes? Then when you get to that part of the game it hits you.

Xenogears is the one game that did to me what books do. When I read an awesome book like George R R Martin's works, I sometimes just set it down and think. Let what I just read soak in. Let my mind wander cause I don't want it to wander while I'm enjoying it. For some of the major spoilerish parts of Xenogears, that's exactly what I did.

Xenogears is like Xenoblade where you have to invest a lot of time for it to pay off. I wonder if Xenosaga was the same, where it's just a very long game and it takes a long time before it gets really good.

Have you not played Xenosaga Kahalachan? I know Morrigan and most aren't a fan, but I would argue that the second disc of Xenosaga III is arguably even better than most of Xenogears. But can you get there? lol. The scope of Xenogears is huge enough, but Xenosaga is on another level since it's galactic sized and every single character almost has their own "final villain" antagonist (this is why the final stretch of III was so good to me, it was like 5 final boss confrontations in a chain reaction of final dungeons. And the ending was insane).

There are many things I like more about Xenosaga because it's even more sci-fi. But it can be a battle to get through the actual games. Its greatest issue is that it simply is 3 very different games. It doesn't help that some VA's were changed across the games too, II has some different VA's but some of the originals came back for III. That bugs me.

I replayed 1-2 two years ago and have to say that the first has aged horribly. Many will still claim this might be the best one, but trust me on this. I've got serious questions as to what the hell happened with a few things, namely the music. Where is the music? There is literally almost no BGM whatsoever in a lot of dungeons. And there is ONE battle theme for the ENTIRE game until the final boss. It got old. And this is Mitsuda talking. My only guess is that he had a month to compose the entire score or something. It seems so rushed. The combat wasn't very good because halfway in you have to rely on these combo attacks that hit everything and those animations got really old and dragged. Battles were really stretched out for all the wrong reasons. They also messed up the mecha, you can switch to it in normal battles but the way it works is just really wonky and they're best saved for bosses.

Another big issue to me is that it focuses mostly on the heroes, whereas Xenosaga II-III get more like Xenogears and develop the antagonists and focus on tons of different characters. In the first game the "Gnosis" were a main enemy force... but they are lifeless with no face, so they're just a boring monster force with no personality or character.

This is when you can really see Takahashi's style shine through though with the cutscenes. I've always thought Monolith Soft were really good with them, the action scenes, camera angles, etc, same with Xenoblade, they're just always really captivating.

Then there's Xenosaga II which took me about 10 years and 3 attempts to finally appreciate. Now I've run through it twice so I'm a big fan, but seriously... this game utterly fails at explaining its own battle system. It was a pretty weird and different system where you would "hold" on turns to stock them up, then unleash a chain of combos while knowing the enemies weaknesses to really get them. A friend of mine wrote up a guide about it and once I got the hang of things, the gameplay actually turned out to be a lot of fun. Here, the mecha battles were separate from the main battles like Xenogears again. But you could only have two mechs at once. Still, I was happy to see them separated again.

ALSO THIS IS WHEN CITAN RETURNS. Okay, not literally, but basically. Jin, the main characters brother comes in at this point and is a game changer character. It's awkward as hell going back the first with him not being there, it's such huge void. My only complaint is he wears a kimono in the second game, so it looks kind of hilarious. He's got an outfit and look that's straight up Citan in the third game.

This is when the cutscenes get even better and the game focuses on a villain that eats Kefka for breakfast. The game is a lot shorter than the first, but this story arc is a huge high point for me in the franchise. It also luckily doesn't focus much on the characters that had VA's switched, so that's nice.

Have you ever played Dragon Spirit? lol, this game did away with Mitsuda and brought in an old school composer (with shmup roots) that gave the game a more trance/techno flavor, but I think it fits really well actually. Then they had some anime composer for the cutscenes and story bits, whom takes over completely for episode 3. For better or worse in some parts, I feel like II has a different vibe than the others that actually fit its world best and sets it apart from Xenogears/Mitsuda. All around the music is arguably more "game like" too than the third game, those movie/anime composers don't always work. III's music is still good, but yeah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgdqBv-KTrQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwl6F1WkM9A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STGNIDZAT8s

Here's a favorite from III, you can easily see a difference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LId8l6Rc6Y

Finally, the third game does everything right. It has a traditional battle system best comparable to FFX (character switching included) and is a lot of fun. The mecha battles are also hands down the coolest in this one and most similar to Xenogears, and you can now have three mecha per battle. The graphics are really damn good and caught me off guard when I revisited it again. The better VA's return. And the entire second half is mind melting. But... who made it to this? Who still cared after the hit or miss first two games? It's a shame, I'd say this is easily my favorite JRPG on the PS2.

Also, despite being under Namco and not Square, Xenosaga III's ties into Xenogears are hilariously point blank. So fanboygasms included.

In the end though, if anything the game does have a Bible sized database written by Takahashi himself that covers the events and history of the games universe probably even more than the first two games even did. So essentially, you could skip the first two if you can't get through them, and still get a lot out of III.

I like how the series also has robots, cyborgs, androids, and clones. It's just chalk full of any sci-fi trope imaginable.

If you really liked Xenogears, Xenoblade, and have a fetish for Takahashi though, then I can't recommend them enough. Xenogears gets nutty with the duality and persona stuff, whereas Xenosaga probably gets a bit crazier with the Bible stuff which I always think is cool in crazy things like this. I loved Xenoblade's story, but it is absolutely childs play in comparison. So if you want something that's equally as complex as Xenogears or even more so, Xenosaga is out there. The world is on the line in Xenogears. In Xenosaga, it's the universe. I'd obviously recommend starting with the first and maybe your experience will be different. But yeah, don't forget III is pretty good on its own.

They aren't insanely long either, I'd say:
Xenosaga ~ 40 hours
Xenosaga II ~ 20-30
Xenosaga III ~30+

It's humorous to imagine Xenoblade took me as long as them combined, but had 95% less plot. lol

I have a hard time saying which I like more between Xenogears and Xenosaga. Xenogears has its budget issues too, though the second disc doesn't bother me... it's insane to imagine what more it could have been. But the one thing it obviously has above Xenosaga, is that it's a one package deal.

I feel like the only one in the world who has enjoyed and beaten every Xeno. Takahashi has stated that the new Xenoblade will be more adult oriented, so I hope the story is crazier again. Seriously he sounds like Xenoblade was an afterthought joke to him with barely any thought put into it. And the story is pretty cliche, but I feel the execution was so damn good, so it was still engaging. Damn I can't wait to see what they do with the next one with him getting crazier with it, bringing back the mecha, a bigger budget, etc fuck yes.

I'm missing one of the Xenosaga games - I believe it's Xenosaga III. I'll have to pick that up at some point, at least for the sake of completing the series.

On another note, I've recently acquired some import consoles. I just got a Japanese Playstation 2 in, which is pretty great as I can now finally play the copy of Berserk I got for $1 for it. I also went ahead and picked up the Sega Ages 2500 version of Panzer Dragoon, since it's one of the only releases I'm missing in my collection (the other being Panzer Dragoon Mini).

I currently have a Japanese Saturn coming in, which will make my life a lot easier. I have a lot of Japanese Saturn games as well as US games, and I've been using an Action Replay 4-in-1 for the imports for 15 years or so. But the cart can be a little wonky at times, and it'll be nice to just pop these games in and play them. Similarly, I picked up a modded Japanese PC-Engine Duo on eBay that can play US and JP CDs (though all PC-Engines could) as well as US and JP HuCards, which is pretty sweet. The guy also modded it to allow it to use S-Video out. This will all be a nice change from my TurboGrafx 16, which can only play US cards and only has an RF out, since I don't have a TurboCD, TurboBooster, etc.

I believe Xenosaga III is OOP, so I wouldn't wait too long on it. Used copies going for $40 on Amazon right now.

That's alright. I don't consider $40 to be too bad. I have games that definitely cost me much more than that.

Speaking of that...

I don't think Suikoden II is coming to the PSN after all, if you guys have tried to keep up with that.

It's been months and Konami hasn't said a damn word. They obviously don't give a shit about the franchise anymore. Sometimes those ESRB postings are legit, sometimes not. To put the sequel up 5-6 years after the first has been up there doesn't make much sense either. Unfortunately I think the odds are against us.

Can I borrow $100 for a used copy now?

After watching a bunch of Game Grumps videos on Shovel Knight, I bought the game off Steam. I'm hooked. This game does pretty much everything right and is just challenging enough to keep me engaged. Easily one of my favorite games so far this year.

LOL. Oh, you sweet summer child.

Xenogears > anime.

*shrug* Maybe, that's just the impression I got from how much I played. The characters sure had the stupid hairstyles for it.

Agreed.


Er...





Other than Fei's silly wild little hair strand (not really seen on the first pic) and the occasional blue/green colour, the characters's hairstyles is as normal as it gets for Anime. Crono has worse hair than anyone in the Xenogears cast. It's fine if you didn't like the game but you don't have to make stuff up as reasons.

Uh, yeah, that's what I said. The characters had hairstyles that would fit in perfectly in a typical mech anime. I happen to think typical anime hairstyles usually look stupid. How am I making anything up? You're the one who's arguing that Xenogears is above anime - the visual style at least looks exactly the same as generic anime to me.

Eh, if you hate all anime art, then I guess it looks "stupid", but then you didn't disparage Chrono Trigger and other anime art styles, so singling out Xenogears for that is pretty random. But my point was that by Anime/Squeenix game standards, the hairstyles in Xenogears is actually really tame and toned down.

Character design complaints lol. Who gives a fuck?

I pretty much associate 90's gaming with Japan anyways, so the anime comparisons and influences are across the board and should absolutely be expected. Come on now. lol



Would failsafe choose the right?

To be fair, I guess I tend to say the same kind of things about Blizzard's gross art style though and anything like it (Darksiders). Yuck!

Actually, despite what shounen anime might lead you to believe, I can think of more anime with mostly-normal hairstyles than ones with all-out crazy hair--Monster, Fate/Zero, Berserk, Fruits Basket, Hajime no Ippo, Cowboy Bebop, Kara no Kyoukai, Vision of Escaflowne, Planetes, Bunny Drop, Black Lagoon, even fucking Gurren Lagann is tame on the hair with the exception of a few choices of color and Kittan's impossible cowlick.

But yeah, aside from the occasional green/blue hair, Xenogears' hairstyles are pretty normal. Fun Fact: All the designs and cutscenes were done by Bee Train, who are (in)famous for their work on Noir, Madlax, El Cazador de la Bruja, .hack//SIGN, and Requiem for the Phantom.

All I can say is that it was 1998.

It was the look.

^ That one is pretty awful, yikes. My eyes! (Or, I should say, "their eyes!" )

I fucking love that Suikoden art style though. Suikoden I and II had awesome anime-style art. The whole mid-to-late 90's Japanese game art style was just kick-ass in general. Phantasy Star, Suikoden, Shining Force, FFT, Xenogears.... never cared for CT's though, but that's because I can't stand Toriyama's style.

lol, that's Slayers. Slayers, Tenchi, El Hazard, etc... that's the mid 90's for you.

But yes, in general I enjoy old Japanese game art very much.





The sci-fi stuff from Super Metroid to Gradius etc were always incredible too. Iron Savior album cover?

Dude, put those giant-ass images behind spoiler tags.

Anyway yeah I just don't really like mid-90s anime stye for the most part. Sue me? I do like Chrono Trigger's style because that's Toriyama and I grew up on DBZ, but he pretty much did his own distinctive thing anyway. Yoshitaka Amano was definitely way better though, no argument there. He's actually like a serious artist. Even if he is unintentionally responsible for the trend that eventually resulted in the ridiculous extremes Final Fantasy character designs have reached these days.

But seriously, how cool is shit like this:


And this:


A million times cooler than concept art from other RPGs, imo.

Amano was a genius:

Nomura, you mean, for that last one. Ugh, what a shitty artist. FF7 had good character art.... and then everything else he ever did was utter shit.
Also Xeo's images are not big at all, no need for the spoiler tags.

Just beat Ys: The Oath in Felghana. Phew, that was close. Had like 10 HP left and I used a spirit necklace. [End boss mild gameplay spoilers] I don't want to imagine that game on Nightmare or Inferno or whatever, jesus. And I just saw there's a Steam achievement for not taking any damage during the final boss.... Bahaha are you fucking kidding me.

And um... in-game time is about 12-13 hours, but Steam says I played 19 hours. Guess I died a lot but I didn't think I died THAT much... maybe the in-game time doesn't move forward during dialogue or something. Anyway, great game, very challenging with fun and simple but satisfying combat. For $3.74 it was a steal. I kinda regret not getting Origin for $5 now... but eh, I'll get it during another sale.