Gentlemen, I think you two both need to go outside and touch some grass, maybe drink some coffee and calm your nerves or whatever.

The fact is, most of the people who get into bodybuilding do so to improve their confidence, their fitness levels and, well...to put it bluntly, to look better naked. There are a variety of other reasons as well, but not all of them end up turning into misogynistic knuckle-draggers or unhealthily obsessed to the point of absurdity, I can assure you. We're so quick to toss the misogyny label around these days that it's practically lost all meaning...

I know for me, I grew up watching pro wrestling. I was enamored with those monsters, and I wanted to look like them...so, I started lifting. WWE is, was and will always be mindless entertainment. But those dudes looked powerful and oozed confidence, and I wanted to be that. It had nothing to do with all of this other stuff you guys are bringing up.

Also, are we really complaining about a "wave of bodybuilding popularity among young men" ? Oh, good heavens, all hell will break loose! In a country where people are increasingly overweight and unhealthy, god forbid someone gets into a hobby that may just help facilitate a healthier lifestyle overall!

Give me a break...

Yeah, and there's something about that that is incredibly vain to me. If I ever exercise, I want to do it just because I feel like it, not because I feel like I have to chase a body that might be out of my reach. It's far more valuable to develop the mental fortitude to accept your shape for better or worse. This bodybuilding trend that I speak of, it puts up a front of being motivating and all about "self improvement", when it's really just pure vanity and an excuse for dudes to post pictures of themselves shirtless in the mirror. If you need the physique of a Greek statue to feel confident, you've got bigger problems than just a lack of confidence.

This is literally the "not all men" argument.

And no, "misogyny" has not lost its meaning at all, I'd say it's gained meaning as we've come to recognize just how subtle, but damaging nonetheless, bigotry can be. Also, did you not read my previous message? I said that, while not all members of the bodybuilding community among young men are like that, the culture has room for it to breed, take hold, and find tolerance. I suffer from insane body dysmorphia. I don't want to be a part of a community where I'm afraid of being mocked for my less-than-perfect figure, and also afraid of the same happening to others. I don't want to be a part of a community that has turned formerly easygoing people that I know into MGTOW morons.

Fat does not equal unhealthy. I've got a little extra weight and I'm fine. A buddy of mine has a lot of extra weight and he's also fine. Fat can be a symptom of an unhealthy lifestyle if you gain a lot of it, but just because you don't have the physique of a Greek statue doesn't mean you're not healthy. The ones who are able to mold themselves into a physique like a Greek statue usually have some level of physical predisposition to do so. Some people are genuinely just built different. This shit about being unhealthy solely because you've got some extra weight has got to stop. There needs to be less "self improvement" talk and more "you're fine just the way you are" talk. It would be really nice if people would stop using the former as a front for their intolerance of other bodies and instead focus on trying to lift up people who are struggling with their own body image, not by flashing their own perfect figure in front of them and saying "just become this", but telling them that as long as they're healthy, they're fine the way they are.

That's solely a you problem, pal. Humans are visual creatures, and some people just want to have nicer looking bodies. There isn't anything inherently wrong with it, just like there isn't anything inherently wrong with wanting to be bigger or stronger or leaner.

You call it vain? Fine, that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it.



"chase a body that's out of my reach" ? We aren't talking about transforming yourself into Chris Hemsworth, here. But having a leaner and more fit body does go a long way aside from just looking better. It sounds to me like you're just dealing with sour grapes.



People seek to improve themselves in many aspects of life. The fact is, being in shape and having the discipline to not only get yourself in good shape (again, we are not talking about turning yourself into the next Mr. Olympia, just to knock down that potential strawman) but to maintain it can transfer itself over into other parts of life. I can think of many times in life where I just straight up didn't feel like going to the gym but made myself anyway. It's about consistency and building a form of discipline. These things can help build confidence ontop of everything else.



You strike me as someone who sees misogyny everywhere they look, and it's tiring, irrational and insufferable, quite frankly. It causes real instances of misogyny to be cheapened by labeling anything and everything that could even be slightly construed as being demeaning towards women as "misogyny". Get over yourself.



Every "lifestyle", group, whatever... as room to breed toxicity. Every single one. Whether it be a political party/ideology, a fitness-based lifestyle, you name it. Even if the overall message or goal of said group is a net positive, there will still be those lunatics. If you define the group and those people who make it up by the fringe, then you are no better than they are.



Again with the strawmen and low hanging fruit. I don't think you're getting it. We aren't talking about "a few extra pounds"

The fact is, America has a problem with obesity, point blank, straight up. We are not a very healthy country at all. We are terribly unhealthy for what is supposed to be a 1st World country.

This "you are fine the way you are" BS is getting us nowhere. People need to get healthier. Not necessarily turn themselves into a Greek god, but get under a squat rack and lift some weight. Develop some form of muscular strength and conditioning. This will contribute to a healthier and longer life. This isn't even up for debate, it's just a fact.

You sit on a throne of lies, strawman and cliches and it's no wonder you have the mindset you do with all of this nonsense floating around in your head. Jesus, dude. I am sorry that you are suffering from the body image issues you have, and I hope that you can resolve those issues. But you really need to step back and take a look at some of the crap that you're spouting.

Just my $0.02 on the matter. This does not need to be a dichotomy of "half-human, half-McDonald's" and "GigaChad".

I think you're both right. There's certainly nothing wrong with a few extra pounds/kilos. Most people in developed countries have that. It only becomes a problem when it impacts day-to-day life. I have a few extra kilos myself (maybe more than a few) that would classify me as overweight, perhaps bordering on obese considering my height. It has started to impact my day-to-day life, and that's where it becomes important. I've only recently started doing something about it, so we'll see what the future holds there.

On the other hand, the notion of "you are fine the way you are," or body positivity, has certainly been slightly skewed in recent times to promote or explain away unhealthy lifestyle habits. If people are comfortable in their skin, more power to them, but the idea of body positivity has changed. There's a more recent movement of body neutrality which I'm more on board with.

I agree that people improve themselves in many aspects of life, and someone choosing to eat cleaner/lift more weights/walk more, etc., will have various reasons for doing so that differ from the next person. Perhaps they have a family history of cardiovascular disease. Perhaps they want to have more energy to keep up with their kids. Perhaps they had a medical scare. Or, perhaps, they do want to look in the mirror and see someone they like. No singular reason is better or worse than any other. There is also no lower limit to starting. If you can only walk for 5 minutes at the start of the journey, and you understand and accept that the journey is going to take a while, then that's great. Something is better than nothing if you choose to do so.

I also agree that America (and Australia, who might have more obesity per capita than America at this point) has an obesity problem. It's easy to blame the individual that being outside a normal weight is their own fault. "They should exercise more!" "They should not have had KFC for dinner!" "They're just lazy!" Sure, some of that may be true. It's simple victim blaming, though. It's the same as saying that the poor person should've just worked harder and they'd be rich, or the girl should not have gone out at night and they wouldn't have been sexually assaulted. We need to look at the underlying causes. A person may be fat and unhealthy, but why is that the case? Mental illness? Physical limitations? Chronic pain? Working 12 hour shifts 5 days a week? Obesity is the symptom, not the cause, in many cases. So, yes, I agree that Australia and America, and other countries, have obesity problems, but if we didn't have fast food on every corner, and didn't waste 30% of the food we cultivate because of capitalism, and made good food more affordable and available, we might be on the way to tackling this issue.

I see misogyny and bigotry everywhere because it IS everywhere. It still is and it's gotta change. It's pretty damn hard to say that fat girls need to go to the gym without being misogynist, because it's always said with an air of distaste for other body types and Western culture's expectation for girls to be twigs. But I suppose you would say I'm just a triggered SJW, I'm still "strawmanning" (or whatever debate class buzzword you can think of) and cancel culture is the bane of human existence.

You'll notice that the medically accepted minimum exercise requirements for a healthy life have decreased over the years, and I'd like to think that's because doctors are becoming less fatphobic and realizing that fat is the symptom, not the cause. If you eat Mcdonalds for a solid month, yeah, you're gonna gain fat, but that's not gonna be what's gonna give you hypertension or liver damage. The processed shit clogging your arteries is. The fat is the symptom. And it's possible to eat healthy and still be big. A guy I know studied nutrition in college and abides by what he learned to this day, yet he's one of the biggest guys I know. He's just built different. Exercise is not nearly as vital to a healthy life as eating well is.

Everything you're saying is shit I've heard before from people I've spoken to in the exercise community. You may say you care about others' health, but you sound like you care a lot more about seeing fat people and not liking seeing them. And you're skeptical of anti-misogyny. This doesn't paint a very pleasant picture. And hearing stuff like it is kinda what drove me away from the physical fitness community in the first place.

Edit: I echo a lot of what MikeyC said above. America culturally has a problem with consuming fast food, to the point where I joke that it's our national dish. The public school system serves kids lowest-tier garbage because they're horribly underfunded. My boss's daughter had to have her gallbladder removed because the school lunches she ate were so unhealthy. And fast food is just so convenient that people just eat it with no second thoughts. That documentary "Supersize Me" that came out in the early 2000s is a frightening look at what fast food does to you.

Once again, seeing misogyny anywhere and everywhere you look. Does it tire you being this perpetually offended by everything all the time on everyone else's behalf?

I'd no sooner tell an overweight woman to go to the gym than I would an overweight dude. Is that a form of misandry? Or maybe its just the fact that being overweight isn't exactly healthy? And I don't mean just a few pounds...



"Distaste for other body types". No, people are very aware that every individual is different. Its just the fact that they could take the body that they have and improve upon it for their health and for their own self confidence. I dare you to ask anyone who's gone on any serious weight loss or strength training journey if doing so didn't improve their lives overall.

Also, "Western culture's expectation for girls to be twigs" ? Please crawl out from under your rock. It isn't the 1990s or early 2000s now. A lot of women who are considered attractive in modern society aren't exactly thin themselves...and that's fine! The issue is when we begin acting as if losing a few pounds of bodyfat and making some dietary and lifestyle changes isn't somehow going to make a difference on their quality of life.





The fact that you use " fatphobic" unironically just speaks volumes on its own...you've pretty much lost me at this point...



Yes, from overeating in general. Doesn't matter if its McDonald's or Tofu.



Define "big"?




Apparently not, otherwise he wouldn't be as big as you describe; unless he has some serious medical condition or metabolic damage. Believe it or not, there is, in fact, a healthy weight balance for people depending on their height, bodyfat levels and activity levels. Not even necessarily BMI, but more FFMI



They are both essential. To deny this is misinformation and patently absurd.



I get the feeling that you're projecting a lot of your misconceptions and misrepresentations onto myself and people like myself...its tiring. The fact is, at least 70% of the country is overweight (and I don't mean just a bit chubby) and it is having a measurable effect on the quality of life for us...and not a positive one.



Yes, I am skeptical of a lot of things. Excuse me for actually wanting to analyze the facts and circumstances before I go labeling shit as misogyny or bigoted/discriminatory. I'm skeptical of everything.



OK, bye. You are free to live your life however you please. But, you really are full of misconceptions and misrepresentations ontop of a lot of other things. Its sad, really.

Wait, I can't empathize? You're implying that because I'm not a woman, my anti-misogyny is irrational. Yes, it's tiring "getting offended" on everyone else's behalf. It enrages me every time I find misogyny, fatphobia, and other similar crap in any of its forms, as it rightly should. But rage is a great motivator. It motivates me to not be hateful and do what I can to change the world for the better. Being apathetic just isn't an option.


And that statement speaks volumes about you. You can fuck off forever.

Bro, calm down. I wasn’t saying that. I was trying to tell him, that his misogyny douche acquaintances are the kind that will quit lifting in a few months, or years, because it doesn’t make women want them, and they view it as a black and white thing, and will quit entirely, once they get injured, or have less time to do it. I was trying to tell him that there’s more to it, than extremism, or body dismorphia. That anyone who sticks with it for years isn’t likely to be motivated by that, because they would’ve already given up. I was giving a younger person information, based on real life.

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I apologize, I’m not a writing expert. I’ll agree with you, on the fat acceptance going way too far. It is the fault of the government, for subsidizing soda and other non-filling, high calorie, nutrition lacking foods. But, when I hear someone act like they have no agency, that offends me. I have type 1 diabetes, and have to inject insulin, for the rest of my life, which isn’t my fault, and I was skinny, when I had to start doing that, and I was trying to get big and strong, at the time. When I cook something, if an ingredient has carbohydrates, I weigh it on a scale. I read nutrition labels, because of the risk of serious health consequences. So, as you can imagine, I don’t take kindly, to obese people, drinking liters of soda a day(don’t get me started on juggalos), and refusing to educate themselves, simply because they don’t care enough. I don’t hate them, but I can see through every one of their excuses.

No, there is a world of difference between being unempathetic, apathetic and where you are at, living in a reality with ostensibly ubiquitous misogyny and fatphobia. I would imagine it is quite tiring.

I mean who do you think you're helping spending all of this energy seeing these very real and very serious issues in every nook and cranny of everything? You could spend that energy contributing to your own well-being and perhaps help others out as well instead of being perpetually triggered. You're going to give yourself a stroke

We live in a country where a multitude of states have enacted laws that strip people of their reproductive rights. Meanwhile, in Iran, people are protesting and railing against the barbaric treatment of women...and you're over here bitching about fatphobia and misogyny? as if the two are related whatsoever? Do you hear yourself? People are unhealthy and fat, ok? Irrespective of gender/sex. It's a people issue. Some of those people who get into the fitness lifestyle become extremist lunatics. As I've stated before, extremists exist in all facets of life, whether it be political parties, lifestyles, etc...

And complicating matters is the fact that there are people out there who are actually attracted to the obese! That's a monkey wrench in this.

The minimum requirement for misogyny is not reproductive rights being stripped away, husbands beating their wives daily, or other countries with barbaric treatment of women. Just like the minimum requirement for racism is not actively making vitriolic statements about black people and going to join a chapter of the KKK. It's still misogynist to make a crack about "women drivers, am I right boys? hahaha". It's still racist to complain that the actress who is going to play the titular character in Disney's upcoming Little Mermaid remake is black because "people need to get acting jobs based on their own merit and not skin color". The lesser of two evils is still evil and dismissing it as a smaller problem is exactly what allows it to grow and become a really big problem.

The difference is ...in this particular context regarding fitness and 'fatphobia'... is that you are seeing a problem where there just simply isn't one. Plain and simple.

Well said. While their are certainly many with that “gym bro” mindset shit, enjoying putting on muscle and lifting weights is absolutely not a reason to label someone as a misogynistic, nor is attending a gym a telltale sign that someone hates women. Just like listening to extreme music doesn’t mean you worship the old gods and eat fucking fetuses. It’s just a stereotype. Bodybuilding is a hobby that has to do with yourself, and not whatsoever with those around you. It’s kind of an introspective thing, in a way.

What the hell happened here...?

Hexen wasn't saying that being into gym fitness or bodybuilding made you a misogynist. He said that in his experience, dudes he met into that subculture were often misogynistic. The comical defensiveness over this, going "#notallmen" and Iran whataboutism is pathetic and tired garbage.

And fatphobia is absolutely a thing. Wanting to lose weight or lift isn't fatphobia, neither is encouraging healthier eating, but you're kidding yourself if you think fatphobia isn't a real phenomenon, FFS.

I don't know, but I love it. It isn't a Metal Archives thread until you've had a weird ass argument.

Yet the vain douchebags of social media try to play the "natty" card while pushing steroids and stupid programs. I once heard, in a podcast, a lifter who made an excellent statement: "Young guns approach me at the gym and ask me if I am doing a 3 month program, or a 5 month or an annual cycle. And I answer no man I am doing the 10 year program! I mean why people are so obsessed with the present?"

And all this negative attitude has led to people starting shaming fitness and physique. The whole "gym guy/tough guy" is the new "red flag" for many gals. Because many forget the absolute rule of working out: health.
I train my body to take care of it. I train for my health, both physical and mental. I train because I want to live for at least 70 years and still be standing on my feet.

It's absolutely understandable. See everything I've said up until this point. The recent wave of bodybuilding popularity has contributed to a corresponding wave of body type intolerance and casual misogyny among young men. This is not up for debate. I have witnessed it first hand and you don't have to dig far to see it too. It's also not up for debate that bodybuilding is an overwhelmingly male-dominated hobby, and therefore is a very good place for manosphere bullshit to take hold and spread. You wouldn't dare tell a fat person - or even a person who's just a bit heavier than a twig - that they're unhealthy purely because they're fat and need to lose weight, would you? You wouldn't see a photo that a fat person posted of themself on social media and comment "you need to go to the gym", would you? That's just incredibly rude. But I've posed that question to friends of mine who got into bodybuilding thanks to the Internet, and their answer has been "yes". One even said, unprovoked, that he had special disdain for people who recognize that fatphobia exists and that he "wanted to see everyone walking around looking absolutely ripped because that's peak human physical condition. why would anyone want to be below the PEAK". Complete disregard for other body types. I'd imagine few girls in their right mind would want anything to do with that crap, especially since they're the biggest target of body shaming.

The fact is, because Western society is conditioned to find thin women and ripped men more attractive than anyone else until a seismic societal shift occurs, being either of those things will make you be seen as more desirable, and you'll get likes on social media and all that. And people do use it to get likes on social media, and that's how I think the current wave of bodybuilding started. It further sickens me because it presents a facade of being inspirational, like ripped dudes will post pictures of themselves flexing shirtless in the mirror, along with some cheap crap like "day 264 at the gym, you can do this too, it's never too late to start working out!" And women who look like they barely eat at all will post pictures of themselves in tights and a sports bra or something, along with some caption tacked on like "good morning" or a similarly cheap "inspirational" message that's supposed to lift people up. No. It doesn't work like that. If you wanna inspire people, don't put such a giant distraction in the way. You're just taking the opportunity to show what a giant narcissist you are and glorify your own body because you know you have an appearance that's not likely to be judged negatively. All you're doing is making everyone jealous that they're not lucky enough to have your shape. Make no mistake, you do have to be lucky enough to have a certain physical predisposition to become a bodybuilder in the "chad" sense. The people who get the most jacked are the ones who have that predisposition. People in bodybuilding have a word for it. I think it's "mesomorph".

I am sick and tired of this ideal Western figure being shoved down my throat at every possible opportunity. Nobody needs to bodybuild. Nobody needs to work out. Most of all, nobody needs to be shamed into doing either of those things, whether directly or indirectly through exposure to unattainable physiques and their popularity on the internet. I won't stand for any justification of body shaming or intolerance of other body types, no matter how based in outdated and biased science it may be. And it's due to my own experience. I have a huge amount of dislike for the bodybuilding and exercise community, even though not all people in it are that way. If you're "one of the good ones", then fantastic. Good for you, but you don't negate any bit of what I just said. One bad apple rots the whole barrel. Being part of the physical fitness community was a huge strain on my mental health because I was exposed to gross manosphere crap and I was told that my body isn't good enough despite being perfectly average for my age and sex. They pointed out everything. Weak jawline. Acne scars. Non-flat stomach. They decimated my confidence and made me not be able to stand to look at myself in the mirror. I am not an isolated case. Nobody deserves that and the fact that such treatment can be common or even exist in the exercise and bodybuilding community indicates that it has a fucking problem. If you can't see that, you either lack empathy or have never been the target of such comments.

Oh, and my community college gym had 2000s scumbag rock as its soundtrack. Finger Eleven, Shinedown, Kid Rock, Linkin Park, etc. Not a great time.

"Conditioned" to? Or is it a function of biological/evolutionary predisposition?

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the "natty" card? (I'm practically a boomer, so some of this stuff goes over my head!)

"Natty" is short for natural and means a figure that is unenhanced by steroids.

And if we're automatically biologically programmed to find thin women and ripped men more attractive than anything else, God help us and we gotta kick evolution into 6th gear for a bit to push past it. But it is societal. Non western cultures don't have the same beauty standards we do. And all the studies that might suggest that we are biologically predisposed to those figures have been done in Western settings with Western samples. "Scientific" studies that justify putting other people down are always something I'm skeptical of. It has similar energy to the numerous studies to show the psychological "differences" between women and men that transphobes appropriate to suggest that trans people aren't valid.

This looks like a fun landmine to step on.

When it comes to the misogynist gym bro stereotype, I think it's kind of a Chicken or the Egg scenario. If a guy has the type of insecurity where they feel like they need to be the buffest guy in every room they walk into, they aren't going to choose knitting as a hobby. That insecurity is also likely to manifest in other ways, such as bullying and sexual entitlement. This isn't a problem with lifting, it's a problem with the individual. These are also the guys who are more likely to seek out PEDs and fad programs.

Okay, this is the thread for the old to lecture the young:

Nuanced, and totally correct answer.


It's "recent" history, as in, since 1945. The current young generation isn't doing something new.

Bodybuilding spaces are a good place, to find angry, sad, volatile, impulsive young men, to recruit, for your extremist ideology. Heavy rock music is another one. but here we are, on a forum, where almost everyone denounces things like NSBM and hatecore. Much as it pains me to pull the "I'm older than you card," I have to. Bodybuilding is a male dominated hobby. Most weight lifting(two words, because the combined word is a specific sport) has something to do with bodybuilding, building muscle. But 'upper case B' Bodybuilding isn't the only form, or goal, of lifting weights.

I wouldn't. Most sane, non-socially inept people wouldn't.

This friend of yours, who talks about "peak human physical condition," knows fuck all about fucking anything. He's into Bodybuilding? Bodybuilders don't walk around in contest condition, all the time, that's not possible. He's ignorant, of the thing he's chosen to devote his life to. And "peak" what? Bodybuilders, onstage, are hungry, and dehydrated. No matter what your goals are, you aren't in 'peak shape' all the time. You can't be. Definitely not, if the goal is to go on a bodybuilding stage, or lifting some kind of maximal weight. He sounds young, and dumb. He sounds like he doesn't know how lame he sounds, to 95+% of people. And he only knows one definition of "peaking." Someone only taken seriously, by fellow morons.

This is social media. The apps exist to make money. You say...

...the apps know that your "friends" are into this, or you've looked at this. The apps show you more stimulus, to keep you looking, so they make more money. And it's easier to keep your attention, with negativity, than positivity. This is the number one thing, that one should remember, at all times, when using the internet. I used to work with someone, who competed in Bodyuilding. As in, he actually did drugs. He definitely thought he was better than others, and I would say he was probably(at least originally) motivated by insecurity, but he didn't go around acting like this. He had friends who weren't bodybuilders, and he trained with some of his coworkers. He couldn't be a dick to everyone, because he also made money, off of personal training, He was into "broscience," and would microwave his tilapia and broccoli, in the breakroom. People didn't think he was superior to them. They thought he was lame, and making it smell bad.

Being jacked gets you positive attention. But some people don't care. Like I said, this bodybuilding coworker was alienating others, microwaving his tilapia and broccoli in the breakroom. He was part of some instagram group, with some coworkers, where they could see each others posts. He wasn't shaming anyone else, but they made a new group without him, because they were tired of his posts, about bodybuilding. All of this group were 5-15 years older than you. In real life, among those who are older, sometimes, if you're a jacked bodybuilder, they think you're "giant narcissist," but they aren't jealous of you. In real life, these acquaintances of yours are viewed, for the most part, as socially inept dorks. Remember what i said, about disproving the incel worldview, by going to the grocery store, and seeing plenty of average looking men, with average looking women? Which brings me to...

...I'm assuming that these misogyny douche acquaintances of yours started lifting, because they thought it would help them attract women? Are they also homophobes? Are the ones who denounce the idea of having a wife/girlfriend really against male homosexuality? Do they not understand the irony of, you know, bodybuilding? I almost said, sarcastically, that you should let it motivate you, to get stronger than these assholes, and when they make fun of your jaw, or acne, lift way more weight than them, and start talking about how sexy muscular masculine manly physiques are. That would scare them out of the gym. That is, if you want to. You don't "have to" do any strength training or bodybuilding, if you don't want to.

They got into this hobby, to get women's attention, and get into relationships with them. Which, in general, would be easier, through learning to socialize, and not be dorks(talking in internet slang isn't a good sign). What they are, most definitely getting more of, through bodybuilding, is male attention. That's why they need these irrational internet philosophies. To explain the contradiction, between their worldview, and real life, which shows them regular men, with regular, not "alpha," or "chad" physiques, having wives and girlfriends, and being much happier at life in general.

You have to put this in perspective. All of us have a selective view of life, and of the society. And it sounds like yours is especially biased, by social media apps(which are biased towards showing you what keeps you addicted), and by a(small, in the bigger scheme of things) number of douche acquaintances.

In bodybuilding, you have more of an advantage, in looking more muscular, being shorter, with shorter limbs, to an extent. Probably why it's so often practiced by young men who weren't "jocks." All the "morph" words don't mean anything. But there are different ways to lift weights, different goals, and different degrees. Some people don't prioritize it as much. But, if you were to, for example, lift 2 days a week, do cardio 2 days a week, stretch?do physical therapy exercises, when you needed it, take time off, to go on vacation, and actually have a life, you'd be better off than never exercising. Those dorks can't see that though. They can't see, that it's better to be 50, and have good posture, and have the strength to not injure yourself, in everyday life, and be in good enough aerobic shape, and not be too obese, than it is to not exercise at all. They think it's "all out or nothing." What if i told you, that some older trainees, with less time to train, and things going on in their lives, sometimes make better progress, by training smarter, than young douche bros? Sometimes, a single minded focus on getting jacked, can blind one, to other things, "general physical preparation," something your "peak" friend doesn't seem to understand.

I would say that part of my motivation, for getting into it, was growing up, experiencing male body shaming from girls. But don't just cherry pick this part, and say that I started lifting out of insecurity, or "toxicity" or whatever.

Debatable. I hope you don't think I singled you out, out of malice. But, seeing this kind of thing, I felt I should write all this. Such a statement is like saying that all the heavy metal fanbase is fascist, because some NSBM bands have a fanbase, and ignoring how many bands, labels, and fans are against it. What about the bands spreading anti-fascism messages? Their message counts, and they count as metal, right? Your community college gym sounds like a terrible environment. But it, and your misogyny douche acquaintances are but a fraction, of the world that you choose to make such statements about.

No. And you don't have to. But, both of my parents are close to 40 years older than me, and I have no memory of them, not being frail, injured, and complaining about being in pain. They also were really obese, for most of their adult lives. And I have to inject insulin, for the rest of my life, and the medical establishment doesn't care about finding me a cure. So, I'm very, very motivated, to do so. And yes, street knowledge common sense, that you can get treated with more respect, the more jacked you are, can help you, but not always, and not everywhere. I appreciate not hobbling around, with joint pain, and not being winded, walking up stairs. I do feel a need, to do strength training, and other forms of exercise. Which is why I write such a post, denouncing your denunciation of lifting weights.

I directed this at MalignantTyrant.


Then I must have interacted with a lot of morons. Did I just get a bad first impression by a fluke?


One of said friends is bisexual. He uses it as a shield to make gay jokes and use homophobic slurs all the time. No one I know in this circle is a literal raging homophobes, but also none of them, not even the one who likes men, is above using the word "faggot" or "gay" in everyday conversation as a general negative descriptor. There's more than a few queer people in my friend circle, but nobody has any self-awareness about what they say. They'll just drop a slur and say "I didn't MEAN it to be racist, just for a joke" or "just kidding".


I really hope you're right. I bear no ill will against you either. Maybe I really just did get a bad first impression. But my mind still isn't changed about what I think about the inherent problems present in the physical fitness community.

EDIT: Actually, why I am I continuing to debate this? It's pretty clear nobody's mind is going to be changed. You do you, fam. If you want to work out, great! If not, also great, but I still think you should find a form of exercise. Maybe try kyaking or rock climbing. Just find a way to keep yourself in good physical shape.

At the end of the day, nobody deserves to be treated poorly or thought of as some sort of cretin just because they aren't into bodybuilding.

Exercise is awesome and great, though I never thought you had to be into "getting jacked" bodybuilder culture or whatever. That's a very specific niche for that.

I find it amusing(?) with all of this talk that seems to equate body shaming to MEN being misogynistic. In 36 years of adult life, where fitness has always been extremely important, I have only ever had one man tell me I needed to lose weight. He was my doctor and was exactly what I needed at the time. Any gym I have ever visited, at any time, had only slightly more men than women. Like a 60-40 percentage. Most men at gyms accept me without any difficulty, including those men smaller than me. Men who never look upon me the way they do a petite small framed 5'5 cupcake, they will both call me Shaq when on the court yet open doors for me, being gentlemanly and cordial all the same.

On the other hand, while of course there have been very nice, respectful and understanding women all the while, every dismissive or misogynistic insult I have gotten as an adult has been from other women. Even worse, at least half of them were said intuitively believing they were being 'polite'.Which is what I have always found in that environment.

Frankly, some of you guys have never set foot in a gym and it shows.

The right wing moron gym bro stereotype is a myth. Most men into fitness respect women and are positive. They just want people to be there best selves.

There is a reason almost all people into fitness have successful relationships and families.

Most Black Men are very muscular.

Look at Elon Musk Donald Trump and other fat slobs. Just horrid human beings.

Compare with Barack Obama and AOC.

That all tells you something right there.

Go exercise.

I have and my experience made me not want to go back.


You're your best self if you're not an asshole and treat people with kindness who need to be treated that way. Exercise ain't got shit to do with that. If most men into fitness respect other bodies and aren't manosphere denizens, they sure as hell aren't the loudest ones and don't do nearly enough to make sure that shit stays out of the exercise community.


This is the actual myth. Dunno where you got that idea from.


Another eyebrow-raising thing. Again, where are you getting these ideas?


Fat doesn't equate to "asshole". Look at Andrew Tate. Shredded and he's a scumbag. You're wandering dangerously close to indirectly (or directly) fat-shaming here.


No, I don't think I will.

Maybe the real answer is somewhere along the lines of "fitness people are human beings and thus wildly diverse in their values, worldviews and politics, like every other fucking group of human beings in the planet that isn't strictly bound by a common ideology".

Oh great, you just had to come and drop some logical thought onto this!

Fat shaming is stupid. And it’s not like it makes you look cool or anything. Why does fat people bothers you, what does it change in YOUR life? I know a guy who go to the gym seven days a week, he is fucking ripped and guess what, he is one of the biggest douchebag I’ve ever met. Mind your own business and keep patronizing fat people on forums if that makes you feel good about yourself big man!

Agreed. I have a friend who is a MGTOW bigot and who started working out in the gym mostly because that's what the other guys of the same mindset do. He was around 40 at the time, after his second divorce, and he has always been quite successful with women, so at least in theory he shouldn't have that type of incel insecurity. (No, I am not talking about myself here)

Pardon my ignorance, but what does this mean? ^

I have no clue either.

I contributed to derailing this thread, with a half satirical post. I was pointing out, how most complaining about the young, is a reflection of the complainer’s anxiety, about not being young anymore. That, and my genuine distaste, for seeing young people have it better than I did, at that age(you kids don’t even know how good you have it. Back in the day, we didn’t have this weak shit). And I also took the opportunity to point out that machine gun Kelly is a sexual predator. But I have a serious question…

For those who wish to live in a society, for those who believe in “the social contract(a concept invented by a monarchist, Christian philosopher, called Thomas Hobbes),” I have a modest proposal for you. No, not that kind.(I’ll save that for another thread). You want to teach pro-social behaviors to the youth, the difference between right and wrong, but they don’t listen. Why not try a different approach, the inverse of “scared straight?”

Why not have the schools tell them that Nickelback and ICP are role models, rocking and getting laid is the ideal, the system insists, that they be obedient, and do lots of drugs, and never use condoms? If the lame, uncool teachers, were showing kids how to smoke shards and heroin, with foil and a straw, and instructing them on stealing alcohol from the grocery store(you don’t put it in a bag, that looks suspicious, you just walk out with it. What are they going to do, chase you? Get real), and chugging shitty alcohol and vomiting, at the park, next to someone who’s dying of an overdose, down the street from some gang related beating, wouldn’t the students want to do the opposite? Why not show them some example of body pillow owning weeb Nazis, when you discuss extremism? Have alcoholics with chronic health problems tell the class all about how fucked their health is, while getting hammered, in front of the class, and telling them about how “cool” drinking is.

Or, just do the scared straight thing, but in a more subtle way. I had this one coworker, who was sober off of everything, not even one beer a day, and he looked like one of those anti-methamphetamine advertisements. He would take things apart, build random shit, for no reason, use tools in ass backwards ways. And he would tell us, every day, what exact mix he had in his water bottle, some mix of Gatorade, energy shit, sugary gas station iced tea, and soda. He had replaced alcohol and illegal stimulants with caffeine, guarana, taurine, and junk food. And he would often just refuse to talk to you, and keep doing something wrong or stupid, if you confronted him about it. I often thought that it would be a good way of punishing “juvenile delinquents,” to send them to work alongside him. Just tell them that it’s not a punishment, but a reward. You don’t need to expose kids to murderers, to scare them, just send them to a regular job, and they might be motivated to get educated. At least, that’s what I think.

It might work. If they had showed me the truth, I might’ve gotten some good grades, to get a scholarship and go to a university. If some 50 year old teachers(who the students despise, and have no respect for) were telling students that Fred Durst’s worldview is correct, to them, and that the music is “so dope,” these kids might take a look at their own attitudes.

Can someone ban this idiot? Blatant fatphobia here and "Most black men are very muscular" is straight up racist.

Yeah, and he constantly calls for war in the Ukraine thread. He's gotta be a troll.

Yeah, that or someone whose stupidity reaches out in a puzzling number of directions.

You should see the shit that this waste of space account posts in other threads. It’s just a troll account, so don’t feed it. Ignore it. It is to be forgotten.