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Lord Tempestuous
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:27 pm
Posts: 72
Location: U.S.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:29 pm 
 

Or just multiple melodies lines interacting?(I don't know the exact definition of counterpoint)

Perhaps someone with more education in music than I can help here.

Stuff like:

At the Gates- Primal Breath
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz8zAG8RiBQ&t=1m2s

Immortal- Storming Through Red Clouds and Holocaust Winds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIKIXMxqTEo&t=2m13s

Parnassus- Blind I Wander
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QgFRYjLvL8&t=0m32s

Emperor- Inno a Satana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PvYoCVAgFg

Gorgoroth- Maneskyggens Slave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0INs9YcJJ5o

Burzum- Glemselens Elv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCBWpQ0vqow&t=1m0s

Abigor- Bloodsoaked Overture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24qmGsVpfTU&t=1m25s

Abigor- Revealed Secrets of the Whipsering Moon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sw8I5hf5Dw&t=0m43s

Sacramentum- Moonfog
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KNDEM63Avk&t=3m31s

Sentenced- Beyond the Wall of Sleep
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-dSz7uskfk&t=0m15s

Dead Hills- Majesty in Mystery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPz9DURYtxs&t=23m0s

Summoning- Old Morning's Dawn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y9TsxeWGt0&t=7m0s

Timeghoul- Rainwound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9pROgk3J3A&t=3m50s

Dornenreich- In Die Nacht
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_07-F_kbc4&t=4m35s
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Rippingheadache
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:42 pm
Posts: 597
Location: Vietnam
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:35 pm 
 

I can't recommend Anata enough.

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MalignantTyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1145
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:33 pm 
 

Belphegor
Rotting Christ
Dissection
Arsis
Panzerchrist
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GravityLapse
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:54 pm
Posts: 174
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:10 am 
 

Krallice, though I'm not entirely sure that's what you're looking for. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WnbcLaWzXw

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6312
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:21 am 
 

Rippingheadache wrote:
I can't recommend Anata enough.

Well said. Intestine Baalism has also worked counterpoint into their music, although it's less techy and overall more visceral, despite the melodeath influences.
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Lord Tempestuous
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:27 pm
Posts: 72
Location: U.S.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:14 am 
 

Rippingheadache wrote:
I can't recommend Anata enough.


Any particular songs?
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Now there are no rulers, no emperors,
No givers of gold, as once there were,
When wonderful things were worked among them
And they lived in lordly magnificence.
Those powers have vanished, those pleasures, dead.
The weakest survives and the world continues, kept spinning by toil.

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Lord Tempestuous
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:27 pm
Posts: 72
Location: U.S.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:15 am 
 

MalignantTyrant wrote:


Thanks.
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Now there are no rulers, no emperors,
No givers of gold, as once there were,
When wonderful things were worked among them
And they lived in lordly magnificence.
Those powers have vanished, those pleasures, dead.
The weakest survives and the world continues, kept spinning by toil.

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Lord Tempestuous
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:27 pm
Posts: 72
Location: U.S.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:17 am 
 

I'm still not quite sure that those in my original posts were all counterpoint, or if if i'm defining it correctly. Can anyone shed some light here?
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Now there are no rulers, no emperors,
No givers of gold, as once there were,
When wonderful things were worked among them
And they lived in lordly magnificence.
Those powers have vanished, those pleasures, dead.
The weakest survives and the world continues, kept spinning by toil.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6312
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:20 am 
 

This is technically a counterpoint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKcTK7lcMI8&t=3m48s

Two or more simultaneous melodies in a harmony, where both are rhythmically different (ie. the other melody is not merely the same melody played a third above, for example, or obviously, the other isn't simply doubling the other's part).

The twin guitar lead here is not contrapuntal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5FKSu8MWW0&t=1m47s
The four seconds long section here with two simultaneous guitar leads is contrapuntal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5X5nfh-Mw8&t=2m50s
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Illusions Dead - death/black metal

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Poisonfume
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:26 pm
Posts: 1115
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:07 pm 
 

Annihilator - W.T.Y.D.
http://youtu.be/bplH5hCEXd4?t=2m5s

Spawn of Possession - The Evangelist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zl1yCKOQQO8
If you're into this kind of tech death, most of their songs (particularly on the latest album) are full of what you're looking for.

I know way more but it's late and I can't think. I'll update later.
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Fimulvetr
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 3:32 am
Posts: 42
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:44 am 
 

Firstly, let's make clear the definition of counterpoint, if only for the sake of specificity: "one or more independent melodies added above or below a given melody."

Anyway, here's me recommendations for you:
Der Weg Einer Freiheit - Aurora
http://youtu.be/dfQNcvIQckU?t=2m29s

This section of the song uses some rather strict counterpoint in the style of the later Renaissance music. It doesn't develop as such music would, but it displays the aesthetic nonetheless.

Der Weg Einer Freiheit - Zeichen
http://youtu.be/Eeodc2jEhss?t=2m53s

Another great example of counterpoint comes from DWEF. In general, their adheres to the rules of counterpoint pretty well, but this example here, starting from the point I marked onward through the chorus, is a stellar piece of counterpoint. Really take note of the inner voices in the whole tapestry of sound and you'll see a great economy of motion, limited yet effective in its reservedness.

Veneficium - Consecratio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M0c02RnGjQ

This is probably the strictest example of counterpoint to be found. The symphonic nature of this kind of music lends itself to the compositional aesthetics of classical music, and as such you'll see the same artistic spirit in the counterpoint of Veneficium. And it has a real pipe organ! That's cool too.

Gorgoroth - Satan-Prometheus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_oOVr9UV-Y

I notice you linked to a song by Gorgoroth in the examples you gave, so you may already know of this song, but if not I'd like to direct your attention to this piece which is perhaps the best example Gorgoroth has to offer of some really fine work in counterpoint.

Windir - Todeswalzer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rei3wy62XI4

And of course, this list of examples would not be complete without the great Windir!

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Vintersorrow
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:59 pm
Posts: 138
Location: Slovenia
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:08 pm 
 

The first one that comes to mind ...

Cradle of Filth - Malice Through the Looking Glass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N9PMRAu-Ak&t=3m2s

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jute
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:30 am
Posts: 146
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:41 am 
 

Obsequiae has endless two-part modal counterpoint and is really fine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnEJWicPxdQ

And as others have mentioned, Gorgoroth has some great pseudo-baroque two-part writing.

My own music has frequent linear counterpoint in up to five parts (four guitars and a bass moving independently), though it's very chromatic and not much like the renaissance or baroque pastiches more frequently encountered in BM: http://jutegyte.bandcamp.com/album/discontinuities

Ilwhyan wrote:
Two or more simultaneous melodies in a harmony, where both are rhythmically different (ie. the other melody is not merely the same melody played a third above, for example, or obviously, the other isn't simply doubling the other's part).


Some kinds of counterpoint demand rhythmic unity. First species counterpoint (a "strict" counterpoint indeed) requires identical rhythms in all parts, and second and third species counterpoint require mechanical subdivisions of a single rhythm. You are right of course that simply doubling a part at a fixed interval is not counterpoint. For the OP or anyone else, Wikipedia explains counterpoint quite well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpoint
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XcKyle93
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:04 pm
Posts: 249
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:14 am 
 

Being a huge fan of melodeath, there are many examples that I could give. Pretty much anything by Garden of Shadows fits the bill.

But this is definitely the best example of counterpoint I've ever heard: http://youtu.be/p9FdqOE3CEA?t=53s

It's Septic Flesh.
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Chaosmonger wrote:
The Red in the Sky is Ours and select songs off With Fear... is the compositional height of death metal, if not all of metal. Better than ten Super Bowls.


Ah yes, the death metal phenomenon that is the Super Bowl.

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Lord Tempestuous
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:27 pm
Posts: 72
Location: U.S.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:32 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
This is technically a counterpoint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKcTK7lcMI8&t=3m48s

Two or more simultaneous melodies in a harmony, where both are rhythmically different (ie. the other melody is not merely the same melody played a third above, for example, or obviously, the other isn't simply doubling the other's part).

The twin guitar lead here is not contrapuntal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5FKSu8MWW0&t=1m47s
The four seconds long section here with two simultaneous guitar leads is contrapuntal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5X5nfh-Mw8&t=2m50s


Ah, this makes a lot of sense, thanks. I've noticed that old Death Metal uses a lot of "doubling". To pretty good effect I might add.

See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBzgkAt0gdw&t=0m51s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BefcpGAJsHQ&t=4m51s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo4KmgYPpoM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClsgeBC1d0Y&t=0m30s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP4WjdkYMyA&t=0m39s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNcyREX5I1o&t=3m10s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icvfjVddVVE&t=3m40s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utq_EzDRCrA&t=1m50s
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Now there are no rulers, no emperors,
No givers of gold, as once there were,
When wonderful things were worked among them
And they lived in lordly magnificence.
Those powers have vanished, those pleasures, dead.
The weakest survives and the world continues, kept spinning by toil.

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Lord Tempestuous
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:27 pm
Posts: 72
Location: U.S.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:36 pm 
 

MalignantTyrant wrote:


Actually, after learning a bit more, I don't think those first two, or the last one count. Though Panzerchrist definitely have used counterpoint before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yByXvzetRfo&t=0m11s

Oh, and here's another topic on the subject: viewtopic.php?t=75041
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Now there are no rulers, no emperors,
No givers of gold, as once there were,
When wonderful things were worked among them
And they lived in lordly magnificence.
Those powers have vanished, those pleasures, dead.
The weakest survives and the world continues, kept spinning by toil.

Top
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