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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6557
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:54 am 
 

Judas Iscariot is certainly one of the better bands. Unhuman Disease doesn't do too poorly either, although there are certainly better bands. My favourite American black metal band is without question Grand Belial's Key.

Though USA is definitely one of the best countries for death metal, there isn't that much black metal that I'd honestly enjoy that much.

It's probably more a cultural than outright nationality-based thing, at least for me - though I consider many Finnish black metal bands to be the cream of the crop currently, Norway and Sweden, and even Germany, are good contenders. Most of my favourite bands are from Finland, Norway and Sweden, and currently, Finland seems to have the largest number of great bands. Of course, it doesn't need to be said which was the strongest black metal country in the 90s.
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Hardboiled
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:13 pm
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:43 am 
 

I always listened to the classics when i wanted to hear Black Metal, stuff like Mayhem, Emperor, Dissection, Darkthrone, Marduk, etc. But i want to hear some hidden gems that are a must-listen in the black metal community so for the ones who know that which are the top 10 albums that aren't in the classic BM bands? that are relevant for every metal fan. In this forum i discover Abyssal, an incredible band.

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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 953
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:14 am 
 

^ I will give you a quick list of things that come to mind for my personal taste in black metal. (I almost never listen to those "classic" bands you mentioned anymore)
In alphabetical order:

Baptism - Morbid Wings of Sathanas
Cirith Gorgor - Unveiling the Essence
Dodsferd - Cursing your Will to Live
Endstille - Dominanz
Eternal Majesty - From War to Darkness
Folkvang - Six Stories Without Keys
Lord Belial - Enter the Moonlight Gate
Lutomysl - Everything from Decadence to the self titled are amazing
Olc Sinnsir - The Throne of Dead Emotions
Pagan Hellfire - The Will of Night
Ragnarok - Arising Realm
Urgehal - Goatcraft Torment
Zorn - Menschenfeind II

I left bands like Horna, Behexen, Sargeist, Gorgoroth, and Taake out because they are fairly well known now.
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Hardboiled
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:13 pm
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:27 am 
 

Sick6Six wrote:
^ I will give you a quick list of things that come to mind for my personal taste in black metal. (I almost never listen to those "classic" bands you mentioned anymore)
In alphabetical order:

Baptism - Morbid Wings of Sathanas
Cirith Gorgor - Unveiling the Essence
Dodsferd - Cursing your Will to Live
Endstille - Dominanz
Eternal Majesty - From War to Darkness
Folkvang - Six Stories Without Keys
Lord Belial - Enter the Moonlight Gate
Lutomysl - Everything from Decadence to the self titled are amazing
Olc Sinnsir - The Throne of Dead Emotions
Pagan Hellfire - The Will of Night
Ragnarok - Arising Realm
Urgehal - Goatcraft Torment
Zorn - Menschenfeind II

I left bands like Horna, Behexen, Sargeist, Gorgoroth, and Taake out because they are fairly well known now.



Thanks mate, very appreciated!!!!

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Amosofnlm
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:43 am
Posts: 20
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:13 pm 
 

On the subject of USBM by far my favorite band of that category would be Nightbringer, they're great. There wouldn't be that many bands BM from the states that would have me overly enthused but I feel much the same about nearly anywhere, I've gotten picky in my old age.
As for Leviathan I think he'd used up most of his good ideas before the first album came out. That said I haven't listened to every one of his releases but of what I have heard I've found it to be very hit and miss. The "White Devil, Black Metal" demo is my favorite of his longer works there are some fantastic tunes on there and even the weaker ones are decent and add to the overall feel. Then again, there's no accounting for taste.

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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 953
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:24 pm 
 

Pact might be my favorite new/current USBM act and I just noticed they are coming out with a new album in April. Great news!
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The Ardbeg Wizard
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:57 am
Posts: 230
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:14 pm 
 

Sick6Six wrote:
^ I will give you a quick list of things that come to mind for my personal taste in black metal. (I almost never listen to those "classic" bands you mentioned anymore)
In alphabetical order:

Baptism - Morbid Wings of Sathanas
Cirith Gorgor - Unveiling the Essence
Dodsferd - Cursing your Will to Live
Endstille - Dominanz

Eternal Majesty - From War to Darkness
Folkvang - Six Stories Without Keys
Lord Belial - Enter the Moonlight Gate
Lutomysl - Everything from Decadence to the self titled are amazing

Olc Sinnsir - The Throne of Dead Emotions
Pagan Hellfire - The Will of Night
Ragnarok - Arising Realm
Urgehal - Goatcraft Torment
Zorn - Menschenfeind II


I left bands like Horna, Behexen, Sargeist, Gorgoroth, and Taake out because they are fairly well known now.


And these aren't?
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Veld
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:48 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:33 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
Judas Iscariot is certainly one of the better bands. Unhuman Disease doesn't do too poorly either, although there are certainly better bands. My favourite American black metal band is without question Grand Belial's Key.

Though USA is definitely one of the best countries for death metal, there isn't that much black metal that I'd honestly enjoy that much.

It's probably more a cultural than outright nationality-based thing, at least for me - though I consider many Finnish black metal bands to be the cream of the crop currently, Norway and Sweden, and even Germany, are good contenders. Most of my favourite bands are from Finland, Norway and Sweden, and currently, Finland seems to have the largest number of great bands. Of course, it doesn't need to be said which was the strongest black metal country in the 90s.


Don't forget about France. I'd say they are a force not to be reckoned with when it comes to black metal. Just look at bands like Peste Noire, Deathspell Omega, Bleeding Solitude, Blut Aus Nord (although the drums can bother me sometimes), Aosoth, Antaeus just to name a select few I listen to.
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Veld
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:48 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:39 pm 
 

As for USBM, I do agree that there isn't as many BM bands that come from the USA that have that certain sound we all look for. But then again bands like Leviathan and Xasthur take that creepy, drony, atmospheric tone and perfect it in my books. Same with Wolves In The Throne room, another excellent band as well. Other than that, I haven't really come across any other bands that I've liked.

On the other hand, since I'm from Canada, check out my friends band "Panzerfaust" from Toronto, "Blackscorn" from Montreal and also "Antediluvian" from Guelph Ontario/Edmonton Alberta. Let me know what you guys think.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6557
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:41 pm 
 

Veld: I purposefully left out France, as there are few bands that I really enjoy. Christicide is probably the best that country has to offer from what I've heard. I haven't heard Bleeding Solitude. Christicide aside, some of the best French bands in my opinion sound like Finnish black metal of the last decade or so, except kind of insincere and lame in comparison. :| Peste Noire makes me feel sick, and Blut Aus Nord is passable and sort of intriguing at best, and utterly terrible at worst.

The Ardbeg Wizard: Ragnarok aside, those represent a different tier in popularity. I don't know how it is in the place where you live, but Gorgoroth, Taake and Horna are some of the first black metal bands that people can name here. Sargeist is unknown to people who don't listen to the genre, but it's certainly more well known than Baptism or Zorn.

Lutomysl is relatively underground, and you can't seriously consider Gorgoroth and Taake to be at the same level in terms of popularity.
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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 953
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:55 pm 
 

Most of those bands I listed are a good next step after the typical introductory Mayhem, Darkthrone, Emperor, etc. and they offer a good variation of styles I think. I consider many of them to be classics, but many people don't know what they're missing yet :)

Edit: Christicide and their drummers solo band "Suhnopfer" are amazing, never could get into Peste Noire either though.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 7954
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:07 pm 
 

USBM is very inconsistent but there are gems. I do like WitTR and a couple other Cascadian bands. I really dig the first Ritual album, and a recent favorite has been Young and In the Way side project Ayr.
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Veld
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:48 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:27 pm 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
USBM is very inconsistent but there are gems. I do like WitTR and a couple other Cascadian bands. I really dig the first Ritual album, and a recent favorite has been Young and In the Way side project Ayr.


Have you listened to "Demonic Winter Metal" by Ritual? lol
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Forbinator
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:20 pm
Posts: 533
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:17 pm 
 

Hardboiled wrote:
I always listened to the classics when i wanted to hear Black Metal, stuff like Mayhem, Emperor, Dissection, Darkthrone, Marduk, etc. But i want to hear some hidden gems that are a must-listen in the black metal community so for the ones who know that which are the top 10 albums that aren't in the classic BM bands? that are relevant for every metal fan. In this forum i discover Abyssal, an incredible band.

I think the responses you get will vary wildly according to personal taste. It's also difficult for us to know what you haven't heard. I made a list of my best 100 black metal albums here: https://rateyourmusic.com/list/Forbinat ... al_albums/ It's mostly the "classics" but I'm sure there are more than ten non-classics on the list. There are plenty more lists like that on the site. I like to find users with similar tastes to me and see what they put at the top.
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Forbinator
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:20 pm
Posts: 533
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:22 pm 
 

Sick6Six wrote:

Baptism - Morbid Wings of Sathanas

I've found that Grim Arts of Melancholy stands so high above the rest of Baptism's discography as to render the rest irrelevant.
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Hardboiled
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:13 pm
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:10 pm 
 

Forbinator wrote:
Hardboiled wrote:
I always listened to the classics when i wanted to hear Black Metal, stuff like Mayhem, Emperor, Dissection, Darkthrone, Marduk, etc. But i want to hear some hidden gems that are a must-listen in the black metal community so for the ones who know that which are the top 10 albums that aren't in the classic BM bands? that are relevant for every metal fan. In this forum i discover Abyssal, an incredible band.

I think the responses you get will vary wildly according to personal taste. It's also difficult for us to know what you haven't heard. I made a list of my best 100 black metal albums here: https://rateyourmusic.com/list/Forbinat ... al_albums/ It's mostly the "classics" but I'm sure there are more than ten non-classics on the list. There are plenty more lists like that on the site. I like to find users with similar tastes to me and see what they put at the top.


Hey awesome list! I only listened the classic stuff (Immortal, Darkthrone, Mayhem, Marduk, Dissection, Burzum, Emperor, etc.) and some new things like Deathspell Omega o Watain but the genre is so fucking huge that i don't know which are the best bands, the other day i listen to this new band, Deafheaven and i thought that they were kinda cool but when i read the comments of the band in this site everyone hates them so iam trying to listen to more underground bands or at least bands that are respected in the scene.

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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 7954
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:21 am 
 

Veld wrote:
Have you listened to "Demonic Winter Metal" by Ritual? lol


I have. It's definitely a lesser album than the debut, but it's not without its charms. I was expecting it to sound completely different and utterly terrible based on the single 10% review here (which also praised the debut) and I just don't see things that way at all.

Can't bring myself to listen to the newest one, though. That one gives me bad vibes without even listening to it, for some reason.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6557
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:12 am 
 

Forbinator wrote:
Sick6Six wrote:

Baptism - Morbid Wings of Sathanas

I've found that Grim Arts of Melancholy stands so high above the rest of Baptism's discography as to render the rest irrelevant.

I disagree. It's one of the strongest releases by Baptism, but not substantially superior to everything else. My favourite might actually be the little Chalice of Death EP. The re-recording on the new album somehow doesn't sound nearly as good.
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OneSizeFitzpatrick
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:56 pm
Posts: 876
Location: Shrekoslovak Republic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:29 pm 
 

I've been on a ragnarok binge lately and was wondering if anybody knew of anything close to what their In Nomine Sathanas album sounds like, particularly this track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6mZP1BcU7M (I love that picture for this video... "who needs swords if you've got handguns")
Something that's got some pretty thorough melody and decent production quality but still with some hints of that "norsecore" sound in between the solos and abysmal melodic riffs.
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OneSizeFitzpatrick
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Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:56 pm
Posts: 876
Location: Shrekoslovak Republic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:38 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
It's probably more a cultural than outright nationality-based thing, at least for me - though I consider many Finnish black metal bands to be the cream of the crop currently, Norway and Sweden, and even Germany, are good contenders. Most of my favourite bands are from Finland, Norway and Sweden, and currently, Finland seems to have the largest number of great bands. Of course, it doesn't need to be said which was the strongest black metal country in the 90s.

Can't agree with this more. I hate that whole "third wave" debate but I can't think of any other country more deserving of the title than Finland in the last decade or so, Finnish black metal has such a distinct sound to it in contrast to most of the black metal acts sprouting up in the US which seem more or less like a cut and paste rendition of Norwegian, Swedish and maybe German black metal.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6557
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:06 pm 
 

OneSizeFitzpatrick wrote:
I've been on a ragnarok binge lately and was wondering if anybody knew of anything close to what their In Nomine Sathanas album sounds like, particularly this track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6mZP1BcU7M (I love that picture for this video... "who needs swords if you've got handguns")
Something that's got some pretty thorough melody and decent production quality but still with some hints of that "norsecore" sound in between the solos and abysmal melodic riffs.

That really reminded me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFMMWH4kDF8

It's not the exact same thing, and it's darker in a Baptism sort of way, but I think the riffing is based on the same premise. Of course, that song sounds a lot like Arckanum, but you know that already.
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joncheetham88
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:41 pm
Posts: 614
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:10 am 
 

OneSizeFitzpatrick wrote:
I hate that whole "third wave" debate but I can't think of any other country more deserving of the title than Finland in the last decade or so, Finnish black metal has such a distinct sound to it in contrast to most of the black metal acts sprouting up in the US which seem more or less like a cut and paste rendition of Norwegian, Swedish and maybe German black metal.


In the words of Hermes Conrad, I offer a dissenting opinion. The most oft-mentioned Finnish bands seem to be very repetitive, either endlessly imitating the sound of certain Norwegian classics like Satanic Warmaster, Horna and Clandestine Blaze and early Behexen, or in the case of recent material by the latter, emulating Watain. The brilliance of Finland in my opinion lies in the more off-the-wall output like Oranssi Pazuzu and Havoc Unit (particularly in their previous form as ...And Oceans).

However, I haven't yet found a Finnish band that both evolves beyond the strict second wave sound and sounds unique while remaining pretty true to the principles of black metal - while I have found examples from Greece (Acherontas, Amnis Nihili), Germany (Ascension, Secrets of the Moon, Zarathustra), Italy (Divine Codex), Iceland (Svartidaudi), Poland (Mgla, the new Kriegsmaschine album) and naturally France (Hell Militia, Merrimack, Antaeus, Aosoth and many more) and even from the fairly dodgy US scene (the amazing Nightbringer). Although I dislike the whole notion of "scenes", the Finnish scene seems somewhat behind along with the UK, if anything, and I certainly don't think bands like Horna and Satanic Warmaster deserve to be considered part of any third wave - merely picking over the carcass of the second.

Mind you I am always keenly looking for such acts from all locations, so if someone is able to non-furiously disprove me (I understand other people's values are different and what to me is amazing is to some worthless, such is life), I'd love to know what is out there.
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vengefulgoat
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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:15 am
Posts: 977
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:15 am 
 

joncheetham88 wrote:
Although I dislike the whole notion of "scenes", the Finnish scene seems somewhat behind along with the UK

What? There are single finnish bands I would take over entire UK black metal scene. (I don't classify acts like Wodesnthrone, Ildra, Winterfylleth, Forefather, Askival black metal). The strength of the finnish scene for me doesn't lie in say top ~5 of the acts, but in the quantity of "just" good bands. You have the top known 90's giants like Archgoat, Beherit, Impaled Nazarene, the fairly well known bands like Horna, Behexen, Sargeist, Satanic Warmaster, Goatmoon, Clandestine Blaze, and tons of lesser known acts like Musta Surma, Baptism, Blood Red Fog, Raate, Cosmic Church, Impious Havoc, Funerary Bell, Nattfog, Nekrokrist SS, Enochian Crescent, Circle of Ouroborus, Venus Star, Keres, Arsonist Lodge, just off what comes to my mind. How does uk bm stand against this?

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joncheetham88
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:41 pm
Posts: 614
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:15 am 
 

vengefulgoat wrote:
joncheetham88 wrote:
Although I dislike the whole notion of "scenes", the Finnish scene seems somewhat behind along with the UK

What? There are single finnish bands I would take over entire UK black metal scene.


That's not really the debate I was interested in. However, for argument's sake I would like to hear a straight black metal album from Finland as interesting as The Codex Necro. I haven't even found something like that yet. I'm not familiar with every single band you mentioned though so if there is something beyond the usual monochromatic raw satan blah stuff there, please recommend :)

As for the UK and Finland, the reason I lumped those two in together is that, like the UK, Finland (in my opinion) struggles to produce interesting black metal without it falling into less rigidly defined folk, industrial or experimental sub-genres (other than Nightbringer the US could be considered similiar). And by interesting I reiterate that I do not find endless reiterations of famous Norwegian albums with little or no character or deviation interesting. I was not implying any similiarity between the output of the UK and Finland beyond quality and innovation.

P.S., Archgoat and Beherit are brilliant, obviously. But neither participate in the second wave worship the majority of popular name-checked Finnish bands do. The recent Behexen is decent but it seems to be a bit of a Watain thing they are doing - I wish they would have explored the sound from the amazing 'Mouth of Leviathan' more over the years.
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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 953
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:07 pm 
 

OneSizeFitzpatrick wrote:
I've been on a ragnarok binge lately and was wondering if anybody knew of anything close to what their In Nomine Sathanas album sounds like, particularly this track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6mZP1BcU7M (I love that picture for this video... "who needs swords if you've got handguns")
Something that's got some pretty thorough melody and decent production quality but still with some hints of that "norsecore" sound in between the solos and abysmal melodic riffs.

Excellent Ragnarok song and album. Odal, Drakhian, Griffar and Entartung may work. oh and the great defunct Thy Primordial
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vengefulgoat
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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:15 am
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Location: Poland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:13 pm 
 

joncheetham88 wrote:
What? There are single finnish bands I would take over entire UK black metal scene.


That's not really the debate I was interested in. However, for argument's sake I would like to hear a straight black metal album from Finland as interesting as The Codex Necro.[/quote]
Whore of Bethlehem is like the most obvious one? Real close top of the "bestial" subgenre if you classify it as one, and arguably better than their 90's output.

joncheetham88 wrote:
As for the UK and Finland, the reason I lumped those two in together is that, like the UK, Finland (in my opinion) struggles to produce interesting black metal without it falling into less rigidly defined folk, industrial or experimental sub-genres (other than Nightbringer the US could be considered similiar).

US has a variety of good post-2000 bands in various black metal styles, from Black Witchery through Leviathan through Weakling through Negative Plane through Volahn through Thralldom through bla bla bla.
joncheetham88 wrote:
And by interesting I reiterate that I do not find endless reiterations of famous Norwegian albums with little or no character or deviation interesting. I was not implying any similiarity between the output of the UK and Finland beyond quality and innovation.

So bands like Behexen or Sargeist are merely norsk BM imitators for you? Wow.

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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 953
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:13 pm 
 

joncheetham88 wrote:

However, I haven't yet found a Finnish band that both evolves beyond the strict second wave sound and sounds unique while remaining pretty true to the principles of black metal - while I have found examples from Greece (Acherontas, Amnis Nihili), Germany (Ascension, Secrets of the Moon, Zarathustra), Italy (Divine Codex), Iceland (Svartidaudi), Poland (Mgla, the new Kriegsmaschine album) and naturally France (Hell Militia, Merrimack, Antaeus, Aosoth and many more) and even from the fairly dodgy US scene (the amazing Nightbringer). Although I dislike the whole notion of "scenes", the Finnish scene seems somewhat behind along with the UK, if anything, and I certainly don't think bands like Horna and Satanic Warmaster deserve to be considered part of any third wave - merely picking over the carcass of the second.


Arggghhh I can't stay out of this anymore. First of all I don't think anyone is considering any of them to be "third wave" & Satanic Warmaster aside from a few great songs is a bad example. If anything is third wave it's these bands that are sounding more and more like brutal death metal while still being "black metal". Everyone has different taste which is fine (I love Mgla/Kriegsmaschine and Aosoth as well), but the "picking over the carcass" comment is going to far! Many of these bands are the only ones left keeping black metal alive and evolving it IMO. I love black metal with some dirty/raw/ugliness even though it may also be melodic at the same time. These days I would take something new from one of these Finnish or German bands any day over just re-listening to the same old outplayed Darkthrones and Mayhems. I may listen to Darkthrone once a year these days, and the fact that those bands are all irrelevant now doesn't help much. I find bands like Acherontas, Divine Codex, Hell Millitia, Merrimack and Antaeus to be missing something that makes me want to keep listening to them. When I first find a band I like I usually don't know where they are from, I just know the music kicks ass. I have favorite bands from all over the globe, but a good chunk of them happen to be from Finland. Must be something evil in the water over there.
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OneSizeFitzpatrick
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Location: Shrekoslovak Republic
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:54 pm 
 

Sick6Six wrote:
Excellent Ragnarok song and album. Odal, Drakhian, Griffar and Entartung may work. oh and the great defunct Thy Primordial

Ilwhyan wrote:
That really reminded me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFMMWH4kDF8

It's not the exact same thing, and it's darker in a Baptism sort of way, but I think the riffing is based on the same premise. Of course, that song sounds a lot like Arckanum, but you know that already.


Odal and Entartung are phenomenal, I'm gonna have to go hunt down those discographies now.
Kadotus is a bit too raw, I remember looking them up a while ago when I first delved into the depths of Finnish blackkness and they were sorta hit and miss with me. Same goes for Arckanum, I think the vocals are just a bit too weird for my tastes at times though it's been a while since I've tried listening to any of his stuff.
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OneSizeFitzpatrick
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:01 pm 
 

joncheetham88 wrote:
OneSizeFitzpatrick wrote:
I hate that whole "third wave" debate but I can't think of any other country more deserving of the title than Finland in the last decade or so, Finnish black metal has such a distinct sound to it in contrast to most of the black metal acts sprouting up in the US which seem more or less like a cut and paste rendition of Norwegian, Swedish and maybe German black metal.


In the words of Hermes Conrad, I offer a dissenting opinion. The most oft-mentioned Finnish bands seem to be very repetitive, either endlessly imitating the sound of certain Norwegian classics like Satanic Warmaster, Horna and Clandestine Blaze and early Behexen, or in the case of recent material by the latter, emulating Watain. The brilliance of Finland in my opinion lies in the more off-the-wall output like Oranssi Pazuzu and Havoc Unit (particularly in their previous form as ...And Oceans).

However, I haven't yet found a Finnish band that both evolves beyond the strict second wave sound and sounds unique while remaining pretty true to the principles of black metal - while I have found examples from Greece (Acherontas, Amnis Nihili), Germany (Ascension, Secrets of the Moon, Zarathustra), Italy (Divine Codex), Iceland (Svartidaudi), Poland (Mgla, the new Kriegsmaschine album) and naturally France (Hell Militia, Merrimack, Antaeus, Aosoth and many more) and even from the fairly dodgy US scene (the amazing Nightbringer). Although I dislike the whole notion of "scenes", the Finnish scene seems somewhat behind along with the UK, if anything, and I certainly don't think bands like Horna and Satanic Warmaster deserve to be considered part of any third wave - merely picking over the carcass of the second.

Mind you I am always keenly looking for such acts from all locations, so if someone is able to non-furiously disprove me (I understand other people's values are different and what to me is amazing is to some worthless, such is life), I'd love to know what is out there.

Maybe I'm hearing it wrong, but I've never really picked up much of a Norwegian imitation from the Finnish acts, they seem to have more a punk beat than what the Swedes and Norwegians play (in a general sense, the obvious counter to that statement being darkthrone or early Bathory).
As far as evolutions go, the closest thing I can think of might be Angmar, some of their songs have a straight up Baptism or Horna style approach, but then you have more thrash oriented and spastic tracks like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11kGiASPdTQ
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:13 pm 
 

Finnish BM rules. Definitely my favorite black metal country. While of course they've got a good number of weirder or sort of idiosyncratic bands, it's the more straightforward "Finnish sound" - punky, midpaced, with those fucking triumphant and oh-so-Finnish tremolo melodies - that really gets my blood pumping. Writing off this style as saying none of it holds a candle to supposedly visionary stuff like Anaal Nathrakh, to me, seems like you're just not really interested in black metal but would rather hear it as a vague reference in intentionally genre-blending bands. Another example of putting "uniqueness" on a pedestal above artistry and passion for an established sound, which is something I can't really understand or empathize with.
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STORMM
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:52 pm 
 

Here is a nice slab of Canadian black metal from Levels of Abandonment, they have just put out their debut release and it sounds pretty damn solid, one to keep an eye on -



http://levelsofabandonment.bandcamp.com/

Enjoy.


Last edited by STORMM on Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hardboiled
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:13 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:56 pm 
 

Sick6Six wrote:
^ I will give you a quick list of things that come to mind for my personal taste in black metal. (I almost never listen to those "classic" bands you mentioned anymore)
In alphabetical order:

Baptism - Morbid Wings of Sathanas
Cirith Gorgor - Unveiling the Essence
Dodsferd - Cursing your Will to Live
Endstille - Dominanz
Eternal Majesty - From War to Darkness
Folkvang - Six Stories Without Keys
Lord Belial - Enter the Moonlight Gate
Lutomysl - Everything from Decadence to the self titled are amazing
Olc Sinnsir - The Throne of Dead Emotions
Pagan Hellfire - The Will of Night
Ragnarok - Arising Realm
Urgehal - Goatcraft Torment
Zorn - Menschenfeind II

I left bands like Horna, Behexen, Sargeist, Gorgoroth, and Taake out because they are fairly well known now.



Anybody knows about a page where i can download all this albums?

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Sick6Six
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:19 pm 
 

Hardboiled wrote:
Anybody knows about a page where i can download all this albums?
Most can be listened to on youtube or the band's facebook page. A few of those bands are streaming or have free downloads of songs or entire albums... Or you can sample them and buy them for pretty cheap usually direct from the band or a site like Hellsheadbangers, Moribundcult or Ominous-Domain.
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Karlabos
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:15 pm 
 

I'm looking for experimental melodic and/or experimental atmospheric black metal bands...
Actually anything that is strange for bm patterns, but still carries the raw essence. Examples of what I want would be A Forest of Stars, Murmuüre, Mystic Forest,... You know, like raw or melodic black with "something else"...
Anyone recs on that line?

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joncheetham88
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Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:41 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:51 pm 
 

vengefulgoat wrote:
Whore of Bethlehem...
...Leviathan through Weakling through Negative Plane through Volahn through Thralldom through bla bla bla

Ironically Whore of Bethlehem is a bit reminiscent of Vorkreist. You've mentioned more US bands than Finnish ones (all but one of which I know of), but thanks for the recommendation of WoB.

Sick6Six wrote:
I don't think anyone is considering any of them to be "third wave"

Possibly it was the third wave idea mentioned earlier in the thread that set me off. Because I don't consider it the case, although to be fair there have been worse ideas posited as the 'third wave' (NSBM, for one). However re "picking over the carcass", sorry to be graphic.

Sick6Six wrote:
These days I would take something new from one of these Finnish or German bands any day over just re-listening to the same old outplayed Darkthrones and Mayhems

I think that's where I differ from a lot of people. I feel like, why would I listen to a disciple when I already have access to the masters. So for me the Darkthrone, Mayhem, Gorgoroth, Ulver's Nattens Madrigal and early Setherial etc. is still in heavy rotation. Under a Funeral Moon and Live in Leipzig don't get boring for me.

OneSizeFitzpatrick wrote:
the closest thing I can think of might be Angmar

Wow, now this I like (other than the weird warbling or vocal effects at the start!) Awesome tip, man.

iamntbatman wrote:
Writing off this style as saying none of it holds a candle to supposedly visionary stuff like Anaal Nathrakh, to me, seems like you're just not really interested in black metal but would rather hear it as a vague reference in intentionally genre-blending bands. Another example of putting "uniqueness" on a pedestal above artistry and passion for an established sound, which is something I can't really understand or empathize with.

Seems like reductio ad absurdum. I think claiming that I'm not really interested in black metal because I'm not interested in the vast majority of stuff from Finland (or while we're on the topic, any country) is unfair, and a bit like policing the genre. I love black metal. I spend huge amounts of time listening to and even writing about things like Funeral Mist, Urgehal, Katharsis, Maniac Butcher, Surrender of Divinity, Setherial, Judas Iscariot, Enthroned, Funeral Winds, early works by Samael and Marduk... the list goes on and on. No, I am not "another example" of putting uniqueness on a pedestal and so on, that was pretty funny for me to read because that is a way of thinking I have always avoided (variation over quality is epidemic in black metal these days). I prefer Rabid Death's Curse to Lawless Darkness, and I prefer Infernal Battles to Paracletus, put it that way. Seems you and I actually have a similiar outlook, possibly I didn't express myself very clearly though.

That said, I am picky. I think I have a right to be when there is such a ton of stuff out there. Case in point Finland; I do enjoy some of the releases by Sargeist, Diaboli and IC Rex, but not much else, so if there are more recommendations to add to the excellent Angmar tip I'm looking forward to them.
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Sick6Six
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:43 am 
 

OneSizeFitzpatrick wrote:

Odal and Entartung are phenomenal, I'm gonna have to go hunt down those discographies now.

Glad you like them, Odal has 3 full lengths which are all quite good, you can hear their sound evolving, but they pretty much stick to their style. My RL buddy who I introduced to Entartung (after Ilwhyan mentioned them on here) just made me aware of their new album coming out in March, also stoked for that. Did you check out Thy Primordial? I think all their albums are masterpieces, they had a different sound than most Swedish bands, still being very fast, but more focus on melody and catchy riffs than some others.

joncheetham88 wrote:
I think that's where I differ from a lot of people. I feel like, why would I listen to a disciple when I already have access to the masters. So for me the Darkthrone, Mayhem, Gorgoroth, Ulver's Nattens Madrigal and early Setherial etc. is still in heavy rotation. Under a Funeral Moon and Live in Leipzig don't get boring for me.

I love black metal. I spend huge amounts of time listening to and even writing about things like Funeral Mist, Urgehal, Katharsis, Maniac Butcher, Surrender of Divinity, Setherial, Judas Iscariot, Enthroned, Funeral Winds, early works by Samael and Marduk... the list goes on and on. No, I am not "another example" of putting uniqueness on a pedestal and so on, that was pretty funny for me to read because that is a way of thinking I have always avoided (variation over quality is epidemic in black metal these days). I prefer Rabid Death's Curse to Lawless Darkness, and I prefer Infernal Battles to Paracletus, put it that way. Seems you and I actually have a similiar outlook, possibly I didn't express myself very clearly though.
I agree those are some of the best old albums and I also love Urgehal and some of the other stuff you mentioned. Rabid Death's Curse is pretty much the only Watain album I listen to and DSO's first 2 albums were the best. Still the fact that you like some of these classics makes it harder to believe you don't enjoy most Finnish stuff!
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joncheetham88
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:34 pm 
 

Sick6Six, surprising to me too in a way. Considering Finland in the early '90s represents my favourite death metal scene, and there's a lot of doom bands I dig from there, it seems like a missing piece. Eventually I hope more stuff will strike a chord,though I am somewhat enjoying this Arnaut Pavle stuff I tracked down, and another band named Sielunvihollinen, in the vein of One Tail One Head ... This thread has at leat given me an impetus to have a fresh dig around.
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Sick6Six
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:48 pm 
 

Sielunvihollinen is pretty good, I got their demo tape along with Sacrificium Carmen's I prefer the SC one, but interestingly enough they are both doing splits with my current favorite German band Sarkrista. The new Sarkrista stuff I've heard is sounding amazing and the production seems just right this time. Looking forward to these splits very much and hopefully full lengths from all 3 bands soon.
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Ilwhyan
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Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:22 pm 
 

Claiming that there aren't unique sounding bands from Finland is outright false - the best bands are rarely the most idiosyncratic ones, however.
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OneSizeFitzpatrick
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 7:27 pm 
 

It's been a long while since I've listened to thy primordial, but they didn't leave a lasting impression on me, any recommended albums to check out first?
Where'd you get the Sacrificium Carmen demo? I discovered that jewel through a Finnish Black metal sampler on my new favorite blogspot, Finnish Black Metal terrorism, and I've been trying to find anything from that demo all over the web and can't seem to find anything aside from one other mindblowing track on youtube.
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