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KingVold
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:05 am
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:33 pm 
 

Could anyone recommend me the essential albums of Gothic Metal? I have only barely gotten into it and would love to hear more.


I would have used the Gothic Help thread, but its been locked.

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LordGothic
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:21 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:39 pm 
 

First 3 Theatre of Tragedy albums
Celestial Season - Solar Lovers
Paradise Lost - Gothic/SoG/Icon/Draconian Times
My Dying Bride - Turn Loose the Swans

ok some are more doom....but mainstream Gothic is pretty shit

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hells_unicorn
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:43 pm 
 

Also check out the first two Tristania albums and Sirenia's debut. Sirenia's followup "An Elixir For Existence" is mostly good also, but definitely get the debut first. Morten Veland used to be an absolute genius. Avoid "9 Destinies And A Downfall" like crazy.
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Belial
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 pm 
 

I'd add The Sins of Thy Beloved and Tiamat's Wildhoney too.

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Catachthonian
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:55 pm 
 

Type O fucking Negative. Their entire discography, to be precise, and first three albums in chronological order as a starting point.
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KingVold
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:15 pm 
 

Catachthonian wrote:
Type O ing Negative. Their entire discography, to be precise, and first three albums in chronological order as a starting point.


I have Bloody kisses , and thats what got me wanting more Goth metal. Black no. 1 is quite simply amazing.

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Misainzig
Epicurean Gynaecologist

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:30 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:21 pm 
 

KingVold wrote:
Catachthonian wrote:
Type O ing Negative. Their entire discography, to be precise, and first three albums in chronological order as a starting point.


I have Bloody kisses , and thats what got me wanting more Goth metal. Black no. 1 is quite simply amazing.

That song is a bit overrated, but is nonetheless a very good song, and the song that got me (and my mom) into Type O. Other than that, I don't know anything about Gothic Metal.

I will however recommend Havayoth's His Creation Reversed. Anything Vintersorg has ever done is amazing.
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elf48687789
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:33 pm 
 

Listen to early 3rd and the Mortal for early gothic metal with female vocals.

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4525
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:40 pm 
 

LordGothic wrote:
First 3 Theatre of Tragedy albums
Celestial Season - Solar Lovers
Paradise Lost - Gothic/SoG/Icon/Draconian Times
My Dying Bride - Turn Loose the Swans

ok some are more doom....but mainstream Gothic is pretty shit


Out of those Paradise Lost albums, you forgot to mention their more ''true'' gothic metal albums, such as ''Once Second'', ''Paradise Lost'' and ''In Requiem'', those albums are way more gothic metal ish than those you've mentioned.

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BlindTortureKill
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1188
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:57 pm 
 

For essential, I second LordGothic and hells_unicorn's posts.

I can only add Trail of Tears, Penumbra and Rotting Christ.
Penumbra's Seclusion in particular is one of the best Gothic metal records i've heard.

If you like a more Gothic rock oriented sound too, then check out After Forever and Within Temptation's Mother Earth

Gothic metal doesn't have a specific sound though, it's more of a feeling, stylistically it can lie anywhere between black, doom, power and symphonic metal.

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Perplexed_Sjel
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:33 pm
Posts: 2182
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:41 pm 
 

I suppose I'm going to try to suggest lesser known bands as they might not get the same coverage as bands like After Forever (whom I really must listen to again because I didn't like them a few years back).

Angledark's 'Angélique' is different. Symphonic, electronic and mixes the clean and harsh vocals well. The clean vocals are definitely better, if not a little too exaggerated. 'Wolf' is a very good song. I find most gothic bands have female vocalists - so this male vocalist is a nice change (though the album does contain female vocals, typically operatic).

Delain are a good choice. Vocalist is very strong. The latest album is probably the better of the two.

Would The Gathering count, in this sense? Not metal, but there are gothic influences. What about 'Mandylion'? Quintessential gothic music, or what?

Season's End are also very good. 'The Failing Light' doesn't get enough coverage. The band has a very strong bass section and the vocalist is enjoyable, despite being slightly clichéd. Works well with the male vocals though.

Tystnaden's 'Sham of Perfection' was a bit mixed, though mostly good. Nice synths, love the cello (which is only sparsely used).

I really enjoy Unsun too. Vocalist has a strong voice, and her accent comes out a lot, which is both adorable and unique.

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Endemoniada
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:21 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:47 pm 
 

You should definitly try these incredible albums

Paradise Lost - Draconian Times
Moonspell - Night Eternal
Tristania - Widows Weeds
Draconian - Arcane Rain Fell
Tiamat - Wildhoney
My Dying Bride - The Light at The End of The World
Type O Negative - October Rust

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Sagebear
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:04 pm
Posts: 416
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:33 pm 
 

Perplexed_Sjel wrote:
Would The Gathering count, in this sense? Not metal, but there are gothic influences. What about 'Mandylion'? Quintessential gothic music, or what?


They used to be metal and are often labeled as gothic metal, so they can fit on this thread.

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Perplexed_Sjel
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:33 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:42 pm 
 

Sagebear wrote:
Perplexed_Sjel wrote:
Would The Gathering count, in this sense? Not metal, but there are gothic influences. What about 'Mandylion'? Quintessential gothic music, or what?


They used to be metal and are often labeled as gothic metal, so they can fit on this thread.


Mm. I myself consider some of The Gathering's material gothic metal, particularly 'Mandylion'. It started to slow down after that ... Though 'Nighttime Birds' might count.

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Crick
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:02 pm 
 

Can someone please explain to me just what the characteristics of Gothic Metal are? I have no clue what this genre constitutes, and it'd probably help me make recommendations if I knew.
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UnserHeiligeTod
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Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:07 pm 
 

Perplexed_Sjel wrote:
Mm. I myself consider some of The Gathering's material gothic metal, particularly 'Mandylion'. It started to slow down after that ... Though 'Nighttime Birds' might count.

Nighttime Birds is more straightforward (gothic) metal than Mandylion and its many atmospheric, dreamy parts. I prefer the former personally.
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Sir_Lucario
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:20 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:08 pm 
 

I'm not too experienced with the genre, but I really liked Dreadful Shadows and Eisenherz. Give them a try if you wish.

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diabolikon
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:33 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:12 pm 
 

So, I don't really know what gothic metal is defined as? It seems sort of progressive and doom-y to me, but I can't quite define it. What is it exactly?

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Karnstein_Records
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:41 pm 
 

There is no 'gothic metal' genre. There are just different bands from different genres that have gothic elements.
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KingVold
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:53 pm 
 

Karnstein_Records wrote:
There is no 'gothic metal' genre. There are just different bands from different genres that have gothic elements.


Explain?

Theres a pretty basic Goth metal scene and Goth metal sound, which is clearly distinguishable from Metal-bands with-gothic-rock-elements (Danzig, Celtic Frost).

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Khull
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:44 pm
Posts: 574
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:54 pm 
 

diabolikon wrote:
So, I don't really know what gothic metal is defined as? It seems sort of progressive and doom-y to me, but I can't quite define it. What is it exactly?


You're more or less right. Gothic metal certainly exists as it's own genre. Probably the most defining characteristic is the use of beauty and the best vocal duet. Combined with rather slow, heavily down tuned guitar riffs and extensive keyboard presence, but not overly flashy as in power metal.

Early Theatre of Tragedy, Tristania, and Draconian reflect this. I highly recommend In Velvet Darkness They Fear, Beyond the Veil, and Where Lovers Mourn for a good example of the sound.

Edit: If you want specifics, I'm pretty sure Theatre of Tragedy were the first band to play a distinct gothic metal.

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Karnstein_Records
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:49 pm 
 

KingVold wrote:
Karnstein_Records wrote:
There is no 'gothic metal' genre. There are just different bands from different genres that have gothic elements.


Explain?

Theres a pretty basic Goth metal scene and Goth metal sound, which is clearly distinguishable from Metal-bands with-gothic-rock-elements (Danzig, Celtic Frost).


Give me a description of gothic metal then please. Tell me how Lacuna Coil, Type O Negative and Cradle of Filth are of the same "genre" and not just unified by gothic elements.
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KingVold
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:05 am
Posts: 1082
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:03 pm 
 

Karnstein_Records wrote:
KingVold wrote:
Karnstein_Records wrote:
There is no 'gothic metal' genre. There are just different bands from different genres that have gothic elements.


Explain?

Theres a pretty basic Goth metal scene and Goth metal sound, which is clearly distinguishable from Metal-bands with-gothic-rock-elements (Danzig, Celtic Frost).


Give me a description of gothic metal then please. Tell me how Lacuna Coil, Type O Negative and Cradle of Filth are of the same "genre" and not just unified by gothic elements.


Cradle of filth isn't pure Gothic. They are Gothic/symphonic/black metal. I wouldn't even call them Gothic metal really. There closer to commercial black metal.
I havent heard Lacuna Coil, so I cant say much about that, but from what i hear there a aprt of the alt/gothic metal movement i.e. H.I.M., the 69 Eyes, etc.


I would define Gothic metal as being a form of death/doom metal taking influence from Gothic Rock, with Gothic aesthetic emphasizing beauty ratehr than the brutal power few most metal.

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Karnstein_Records
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:08 pm 
 

KingVold wrote:
Karnstein_Records wrote:
KingVold wrote:
Karnstein_Records wrote:
There is no 'gothic metal' genre. There are just different bands from different genres that have gothic elements.


Explain?

Theres a pretty basic Goth metal scene and Goth metal sound, which is clearly distinguishable from Metal-bands with-gothic-rock-elements (Danzig, Celtic Frost).


Give me a description of gothic metal then please. Tell me how Lacuna Coil, Type O Negative and Cradle of Filth are of the same "genre" and not just unified by gothic elements.


Cradle of filth isn't pure Gothic. They are Gothic/symphonic/black metal. I wouldn't even call them Gothic metal really. There closer to commercial black metal.
I havent heard Lacuna Coil, so I cant say much about that, but from what i hear there a aprt of the alt/gothic metal movement i.e. H.I.M., the 69 Eyes, etc.


I would define Gothic metal as being a form of death/doom metal taking influence from Gothic Rock, with Gothic aesthetic emphasizing beauty ratehr than the brutal power few most metal.


So if a regular (80s-style) heavy metal, or a death metal band (non-doom) band has lots of gothic elements, they're not gothic metal? It only applies to doom-death bands?

What of Type O Negative?
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Belial
Metalhead

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Posts: 813
Location: Tunisia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:13 pm 
 

Karnstein_Records wrote:
KingVold wrote:
Karnstein_Records wrote:
There is no 'gothic metal' genre. There are just different bands from different genres that have gothic elements.


Explain?

Theres a pretty basic Goth metal scene and Goth metal sound, which is clearly distinguishable from Metal-bands with-gothic-rock-elements (Danzig, Celtic Frost).


Give me a description of gothic metal then please. Tell me how Lacuna Coil, Type O Negative and Cradle of Filth are of the same "genre" and not just unified by gothic elements.

What would call "gothic elements"?

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LordGothic
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:21 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:51 pm 
 

Theatre of Tragedy's "Aegis" is what id consider Gothic metal, i really cant think of any other genre it could fit under, too soft to be doom, lots of keyboards, clean male vocals, dreamy female vocals, chugging goth riffs, simple drumming and ofcourse very gothic lyrics

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zervyx
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:21 pm
Posts: 172
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:18 pm 
 

well, for a long long time there's been a confussion about what's really gothic in metal.

for me, true gothmetal is a metal version of goth-rock (Bauhaus, The Sisters of Mercy, Nosferatu) that kind of sound is like Type O Negative, Tenebre, The Bronx Casket Co, new Moonspell.

However, in the Metal community some people started saying that "gothic" has more to do with Orchesta, Classical orientated keyboards and even Opera, which is not exactly a typical thing in oldschool Goth-Rock, for me that's nonsense; anyway, there's where bands like Cradle of Filth, Epica, old Paradise Lost, old Theatre of Tragedy, Graveworm, My Dying Bride enter... and of course they dont have that much in common with real gothmetal bands.

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HellBlazer
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:06 am 
 

zervyx wrote:
for me, true gothmetal is a metal version of goth-rock (Bauhaus, The Sisters of Mercy, Nosferatu) that kind of sound is like Type O Negative, Tenebre, The Bronx Casket Co, new Moonspell.


Thank you! I was shaking my head through most of the thread until this. I don't know who the fuck started labeling about anything with female vocals and/or lots of keyboards as gothic metal, but they need a good kick to the head.

Now, can anyone recommend me some good "true" gothic metal? Essentially, a metal version of The Sisters of Mercy would be awesome.

OP, you might want to check out obscure Swedish band Stillborn, if you're looking for something a bit like Type O Negative, specifically the Necrospirituals album if you can find it. They have strong goth and doom influences, but their style is a bit all over the place... well yeah, like Type O as I said, though they actually predate them.

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elf48687789
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:03 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:15 am 
 

If you want something that sounds like gothic rock but is more towards metal you can try Venitia.

I don't like the idea of vocalists sounding like other vocalists, but there are a few Andrew Eldritch sound-alikes in gothic rock, and Siouxie clones are a dime a dozen.

A lot of the Norwegian bands listen to some gothic music which isn't metal, but I can't stand the idea of "tr00 goPhik metal", especially since there are a lot of goths which can't stand metal.

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BlindTortureKill
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1188
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:13 am 
 

HellBlazer wrote:
zervyx wrote:
for me, true gothmetal is a metal version of goth-rock (Bauhaus, The Sisters of Mercy, Nosferatu) that kind of sound is like Type O Negative, Tenebre, The Bronx Casket Co, new Moonspell.


Thank you! I was shaking my head through most of the thread until this. I don't know who the fuck started labeling about anything with female vocals and/or lots of keyboards as gothic metal, but they need a good kick to the head.


Bull,
"real gothmetal" developed independantly from goth-rock starting with Paradise Lost and Theatre of Tragedy.

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somefella
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Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:33 am 
 

The Vision Bleak?

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dust666
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:46 pm
Posts: 683
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:43 am 
 

Poppy female-fronted:
Xandria, Post-2006 Theatre of Tragedy, Sirenia, Unsun, Within Temptation, Katra, Lacuna Coil

Poppy male-fronted.
To/die/for, Charon, For My Pain, SaraLee, Later-era Nevergreen

Non-poppy:
Moonspell, Early-to mid Crematory, Mid-era Rotting Christ, Early Theatre od Tragedy, later Agathodaimon, later Graveworm, Virgin Black

That's all i can think of right now.

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red_blood_inside
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:20 pm
Posts: 485
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:12 am 
 

dust666 wrote:
Poppy female-fronted:
Xandria, Post-2006 Theatre of Tragedy, Sirenia, Unsun, Within Temptation, Katra, Lacuna Coil

Poppy male-fronted.
To/die/for, Charon, For My Pain, SaraLee, Later-era Nevergreen

Non-poppy:
Moonspell, Early-to mid Crematory, Mid-era Rotting Christ, Early Theatre od Tragedy, later Agathodaimon, later Graveworm, Virgin Black

That's all i can think of right now.


This, and if you want more rock oriented, give late Sentenced a try
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dust666
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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:46 pm
Posts: 683
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:15 am 
 

red_blood_inside wrote:
dust666 wrote:
Poppy female-fronted:
Xandria, Post-2006 Theatre of Tragedy, Sirenia, Unsun, Within Temptation, Katra, Lacuna Coil

Poppy male-fronted.
To/die/for, Charon, For My Pain, SaraLee, Later-era Nevergreen

Non-poppy:
Moonspell, Early-to mid Crematory, Mid-era Rotting Christ, Early Theatre od Tragedy, later Agathodaimon, later Graveworm, Virgin Black

That's all i can think of right now.


This, and if you want more rock oriented, give late Sentenced a try


And don't forget to try Poisonblack and Leaves' Eyes :P

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Acrobat
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:30 am 
 

Katatonia's Dance of December Souls sounds like gothic metal to me. I can hear bits of The Sisters of Mercy and what have you here. It's got a gothic feel to it, and even though I'm actually (and coincidentally) on my first listen of this it's certainly been excellent so far. Still, I'm no expert on this stuff so real free to call me out the fact that this isn't a gothic metal album and I'm a filthy little pleb etc. What do I care, this guitar tone is great.
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iAm
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:34 am 
 

I am not that much into this style of music but I find Gothic Rock and Horror Punk to be better than some of the Gothic Metal bands out there. The Cure and 45 Grave are both amazing.
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MacMoney
Man of the Cloth

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:17 pm
Posts: 1954
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:35 am 
 

Anyone interested in goth rock metalized and is not aware of Babylon Whores, should check them out immediately. They do that sort of thing best. One of the best kept secrets in Finland.

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Hybrid_Killer
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:32 am
Posts: 652
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:31 pm 
 

dust666 wrote:
Poppy female-fronted:
Xandria, Post-2006 Theatre of Tragedy, Sirenia, Unsun, Within Temptation, Katra, Lacuna Coil

Poppy male-fronted.
To/die/for, Charon, For My Pain, SaraLee, Later-era Nevergreen

Non-poppy:
Moonspell, Early-to mid Crematory, Mid-era Rotting Christ, Early Theatre od Tragedy, later Agathodaimon, later Graveworm, Virgin Black

That's all i can think of right now.


What do you guys reckon are the best Moonspell, Type O Negative, Graveworm and Crematory albums to get started with?

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screamingstatue
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:06 am
Posts: 576
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:42 pm 
 

iAm wrote:
I am not that much into this style of music but I find Gothic Rock and Horror Punk to be better than some of the Gothic Metal bands out there. The Cure and 45 Grave are both amazing.


This.

OP - any My Dying Bride or Nightwish should have you sorted. Personally, I avoid Type O like the plague, but to each their own.
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CHRISTI_NS_ANITY8
Metalhead

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Location: Italy
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:43 pm 
 

if you want to check out an Italian band I recommend MACBETH and the first two efforts when they were still a bit black metal oriented.
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