Cheking out Arkangel right now, and this is great- I'm really liking those crazy vocals also. And no generic breakdowns!

I honestly don't know much about deathcore, but you may enjoy Rings of Saturn. They don't overuse breakdowns, use pretty normal death metal vocals, and have some very technical guitar work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-WlL409YtM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb5bBWc6 ... re=related

Speaking of RoS, can anyone rec some bands that are similar to them?

Arkangel are probably my favorite band from the Belgian metalcore scene. Their stuff after Dead Man Walking kinda blows though.

I'm going to support Rings Of Saturn here. Great deathcore with some awesome guitar work. I don't think they use less breakdowns than the next band, but their music is quite good nonetheless.

Unfortunately, I don't know any similar bands. EDIT: Well, maybe Gigan, but that's more tech-death. Give them a try if you like.

By 90's metalcore, do you guys mean metallic hardcore in the vein of Hatebreed, Converge, and Shai Hulud?

'Cause if so, I won't bother checking the stuff out, I dislike hardcore.

Here's my list from the other thread.

After the Burial
Antagonist
As Blood Runs Black
As They Sleep
At the Throne of Judgement
Blind Witness
Brother Von Doom
The Burial
Conducting from the Grave
The Crimson Armada
Darkest Hour
Darkness Rites
Dreamshade
Dust N Brush
Dying Humanity
Dagon
Enfold Darkness
Eradication
The Faceless
Feed Her to the Sharks
First Fragment
Fleshgod Apocalypse
Forever in Terror
Forever it Shall Be
A Hero a Fake
The Human Abstract
In the Midst of Lions
Knights of the Abyss
The Last Felony
Lower Hell
Meaning Beside
Miss May I
Mutiny Within
MyChildren MyBride
Neaera
Nembience
Obscura
Return from Exile
Ryashon
Salt the Wound
Sea of Treachery
Sleep Serapis Sleep
Stigma
Sylosis
This or the Apocalypse
Veil of Maya
Viatrophy
Within the Ruins
Woe of Tyrants
Wrath and Wrapture
Wretched

You might like bands like Vision of Disorder and Congress, considering how those bands help push the boundaries of metallic hardcore into modern metalcore and deathcore. Some people consider Arkangel to be the first deathcore band.

Haha, yeah!! You might want to check out Congress now, they put out some of the most awesome metalcore anthems from that side of the scene!

Are there any Deathcore/Metalcore bands that have a noticeable Celtic Frost influence? Creative riffs, weird as shit, etc.

Well, this is odd... I'm actually enjoying exploring metalcore... Guess it just shows not to judge a music style by the popular bands.

A lot of NY area bands LOVED Celtic Frost but I dunno about direct influence... I can tell you for a fact that Cro-Mags, Crown of Thornz, Merauder, all had loved Hellhammer/Celtic Frost (or had prominent members that did) but were limited to their early stuff, the Emperor's Return shit.



Haha, exactly! I used to HATE metalcore but now its one of my favorite forms of metal music, along with Crossover Thrash and Sludge.

What are the bands that you most enjoyed out of the ones me and that other guy reccomended?

I wouldn't call it direct influence, but a lot of early metallic hardcore bands had a similar dark, death/thrash/punk-influenced atmosphere. Integrity and Ringworm being the big names amongst that lot.

It's a term once used mainly to describe a great genre of true metal/hardcore hybrids that's been recently hijacked to describe mainstream guyliner-core drivel such as Black Veil Brides or Bring Me the Horizon. Similar to how the term "emo" was once used to describe bands like Fugazi or Rites of Spring but is now synonymous with My Chemical Romance (not a dig at that band though since I love them; they're simply a well-known example of the term's misuse), Alkaline Trio, and whatnot.



Give any of the "Holy Terror" or Cleveland metalcore bands a try. Integrity and Ringworm as mentioned by Zero_Nowhere, Catharsis, and many more (check out Wet Pussy's list). Those guys are all-known for preaching the brimstone-and-fire gospel, sounding like they breathe and exhale hellfire fumes, and riding the low E like the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Oh yes, and they probably like Slayer too.

Here's a sample.

Axel, you were the guy who intro'd me to the Holy Terror shit too right? God-damn, that scene is badass as hell. That and Belgium's scene are probably the most downright vicious metalcore scenes.

Haha, yeah, I think I was. My listening has been all over the place for the last year or so so I haven't listened to much metalcore. Gave Integrity's To Die For a spin earlier today. So fucking heavy. xD

Belgium has a metalcore scene? News to me. Hook me up?

Yeah dude... friggin legendary stuff O_O

Congress and Arkangel are the most well known bands.

It's all some seriously incredible stuff. Some of the best:

Arkangel - Prayers Upon Deaf Ears
Liar - Falls of Torment
Congress - Blackened Persistence
Ashlar - Enthroned in a So-Called Heaven
Sektor - Human Spots of Rust

This guy's blog pretty much covers everything you could want to know about the Belgian scene: http://h8000central.blogspot.com/


On an unrelated note: Any fans of Harvest in here? I've been listening to Living With a God Complex a ton lately.

Just gave some Arkangel and Congress songs a listen. I like what I'm hearing. Arkangel vocalist sounds like he's possessed. Appreciate the rec guys. Definitely going to give them a listen.

It's a term once used mainly to describe a great genre of true metal/hardcore hybrids that's been recently hijacked to describe mainstream guyliner-core drivel such as Black Veil Brides or Bring Me the Horizon. Similar to how the term "emo" was once used to describe bands like Fugazi or Rites of Spring but is now synonymous with My Chemical Romance (not a dig at that band though since I love them; they're simply a well-known example of the term's misuse), Alkaline Trio, and whatnot.[/quote]

Eh. The thing is, metalcore of the 90's wasn't called metalcore long for a reason. Metalcore suggests that they're a metal band with core influences. The fact of the matter is all 90's metalcore is still hardcore, just with a metal influence. As artists in the early 2000's started to move further from hardcore and closer to melodic death metal, bands such as Darkest Hour or Under Siege, people realized how close to hardcore that metallic hardcore actually was and as a result they sort of 'removed' the metalcore tag.

However, while some scene bands and such nowadays are termed metalcore, this is actually false. Metalcore has become an umbrella term; when someone doesn't know what genre something is, they will often call it metalcore. You will see deathcore, melodic death metal, groove metal, post hardcore, hardcore, happy hardcore, even sludge metal, and some others being called metalcore even when they're not. Bring Me the Horizon is a great example. They are NOT metalcore. They used to be melodic deathcore and then they switched to hardcore. Underoath is another great example; they went deathcore to post hardcore to hardcore. Not once were they metalcore. A lot of metallic post hardcore bands are like this too such as Woe is Me or A Bullet for Pretty Boy. Some do have strong metalcore elements but could be argued to not be metalcore such Bullet for My Valentine. They are really close to the hardcore/post hardcore border.

Then you get artists such as Escape the Fate, Glamour of the Kill, and Black Veil Brides. I term these guys with a genre I sort of made up called Post Metalcore. These guys are technically metalcore but lose some of the melodic death metal and hardcore influences in favor of post hardcore. It's sort of a new wave of metalcore forming. New artists are starting to take to this style such as Funeral for a Friend and Silverstein.

Anyways, just wanted to get that out of the way.

I agree with most of it, but it appears that you are clearly lacking in knowledge of old school 80s hardcore. Most 90s metalcore doesnt really feel very hardcore with that 80s definition of hardcore in mind. Bands like Earth Crisis just seem like Pantera worshippers with some Obituary thrown in, that associated themselves with hardcore.

I agree with metalcore being an umbrella term though. Hell, if you look at old DRI vids from 88, they're called Metalcore.

@bearkin

Gee, thanks for telling me what I already know? I know exactly what you're talking about with metalcore being an umbrella term and I agree. I didn't mean to imply that I agreed with those labels. I was just describing what a general phenomenon.

You're wrong about 90s metalcore though. You're going to have a hard time convincing anyone Integrity or Ringworm is more Black Flag than Slayer. Also, Funeral for a Friend and Silverstein both have been around for pretty much the whole past decade. Certainly not new at all. New Underoath and BMTH are definitely not hardcore either. Are you sure you know what you're talking about?

You're right, I actually know nothing of early hardcore/punk. I'm more referring to some of the hardcore you hear nowadays.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but if those artists you said are part Black Flag and part Slayer, wouldn't that make them crossover?

As for Funeral for a Friend and Silverstein, I was ONLY talking about their latest releases. Here are 2 songs that have clear metalcore-style riffs in them.

Funeral for a Friend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGQ33Ch-Log
Go to about 38s in.

Silverstein
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJO3xRegORM
Right at the beginning.
Alsol, make sure to go to 2:05. That's is something you hear in Melodic Death Metal. A clear move away from their older style.

Both these artists that have gone through pop punk, melodic hardcore, post hardcore, and/or alternative have moved to the newer style of metalcore.

Newer Underoath seems to be kind of experimental, but BMtH is hardcore. Now, like I said earlier, I'm not a hardcore junkie, I don't know the distinction between subgenres very well. But I know for a fact they're not metalcore.

To both of you I would definitely recommend The Red Shore, one of the few deathcore bands I listen to. No six breakdowns per song, no breakdowns leading into another breakdown, no brees or weak growls, no bullshit. Just massive fucking RIFFS, which to me is what deathcore bands are always missing.

Two from their new album:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9en1plZNKI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqm5CgeP7PI

And one from their first (and with their old vocalist, if you can tell the difference):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ8-1umlaLw

Crossover basically just means punkier thrash - bands that were too rooted in 80s hardcore (and it was almost always the more uptempo, bouncy 80s hardcore that got mixed in. Not the sludgier, uglier stuff that was coming out) to quite fit in the bay area mould. It's sometimes called metalcore, but very rarely because its so divergent from every other blending of the two.

And bearkin, if you admit you have no bloody idea what hardcore is, how can you be so sure BMTH is hardcore?



I dunno. I hear a lot of My War-esque influence in the slower and more midtempo sections of early Integrity and Ringworm. The desperate vocals as well.

Probably not quite enough to make it more BF than Slayer, but the sludgy parts of BF filtered down into a lot of 90s hardcore (and not small part of 90s metal, for that matter).

So you admited you don't know what you're talking about.



Zero_Nowhere already addressed this point, so I don't have to. Again, you really don't seem to know what you're talking about.



I don't have anything to say about Silverstein since I'm not familiar with their music. Was more objecting to the fact that you called them new. You're wrong about Funeral for a Friend though. They've always had those elements in their music, it's just been far more prominent in their recent EP and new album. Go back and listen to Hours. Listen to "All the Rage", "The End of Nothing", etc. Though it's not overtly metalcore, it's all very riff-driven stuff. FFAF certainly didn't jump on the metalcore bandwagon. Also, I call bullshit on them going through pop punk and melodic hardcore phases. You've stated already you know nothing of hardore and I know for a fact from listening to their material that there is nothing that resembles those two aforementioned genres.



You're going to call this song hardcore? Yup, you clearly don't know shit.

Knowing nothing of "early" hardcore doesn't mean I know nothing of modern hardcore. Also, there's something called a spectrum. I know all there is to know about metalcore/melodic deathcore and for that reason, I know what isn't metalcore which in turn can help me identify hardcore. Jesus, it's not a hard concept, I thought you would have been able to pick up on that.

Pop Punk and Melodic Hardcore were more directed to Silverstein.

Although Funeral did have some metalcorey stuff on Hours, it's more prominent on their new record which was my point. I said they moved towards it, not that they abandoned their old stuff.

Really, you're going to try and prove an artist isn't a certain genre with ONE song? And a SINGLE at that? So I guess if a horror movie has one funny joke at the beginning, it's a comedy?

I don't know what your problem is and why you want to pick a fight. All I did was post an opinion from a modern melodic metalcore fan's point of view. But hey, if harassing people is what it takes for you to get it up, then by all means, go ahead. Just don't expect me to keep arguing, I have better things to do than fight people online.

I suppose there's your problem. What is this modern hardcore that you speak of? Probably very different from what is generally agreed upon as modern hardcore, I'm pretty sure.



Seriously? That's the logic you're going to use to defend yourself? "I know what green and blue look like, so for that reason I know what green doesn't look like which in turn can help me identify red?"



I can agree with that.



I agree, though you failed to make that point clear. Let's take a look at what you posted previously...



You state here that they're new bands, though clearly ithey're not. Least you acknowledge you were wrong though.



Again, implying that they have abandoned their style and opted for a new one.

Noticing a general trend emerging? You're not making it clear as to what your definition of "hardcore", "metalcore", and "deathcore" are meaning your argument will make sense to yourself and none of us here. What we know as those genres and conventional opinion seems to be very different from yours. That's my reason for putting you on blast.



Show me another BMTH song that sounds like that Bad Brains song. Certainly I don't have to go through their whole discography just to prove they have nothing to do with hardcore. Also, that analogy is irrelevant. Please don't try and pull this shit on me. This is not some middle-school debate.



My problem is that you don't seem to know what you're talking about, or at least aren't making it clear. Please don't get pissy and defensive if people don't get your point - it's because you're not making it clear. And lastly, please do not pull the passive-aggressive act if you want to be taken seriously. Don't try to take the moral high ground to cover up your argument's flaws.

Explain clearly to us what your definition of hardcore, metalcore, etc are. Provide musical traits instead of examples of bands you deem fit under those genres. Also, restate your argument again so I know just exactly what you're trying to communicate. Would you please do all that so I don't feel like I've wasted my last couple of posts arguing with a whiny manchild who knows how to work a keyboard and use the Internet?

The problem here is that Bearkin only knows of modern hardcore. And the similarity/comparisons between modern hardcore and metallic hardcore are the same as the late 80s Youth Crew sound to the late 80s Crossover sound. There's just sliiiiightly less metal in one, and the metal is also pretty disguised and comes off as being hardcore.

Even by the normal definition of modern hardcore (insofar as there is such a thing) BMTH don't really count. You say 'modern hardcore', most people immediately think of beatdown hardcore. Bands like Terror and Agnostic Front.

Which, while undeniably metal influenced, have more in common with early Devourment than they do with BMTH.

Me saying Funeral and Silverstein are new artists was just a typo. I meant to say newer artists and new records from old artists.

If none of you guys consider BMtH to be hardcore, then what do you consider them? This is not a rhetorical question, I genuinely want to know.

Should have made that clear in the beginning.



Let's not play this game. Please refer back to my last post. The burden of proof is now on you. We've already presented our side; BMTH have nothing to do with modern hardcore. They're metalcore/deathcore as far as I'm concerned, but again, our definitions seem to differ so it's fruitless to debate that point until you provide a working definition for what you consider hardcore/metalcore, etc.

Now are you going to continue picking at pieces of my argument and ignore everything I've proven you wrong about or are you going to actually back up your claim?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIiO8j7lWjA&t=0m36s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkibkFkvz6E&t=1m18s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rumtWBnTRck&t=1m03s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJroU3jwatA&t=1m02s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-srL50FHf0

These are all examples of either metalcore songs or sections with a metalcore riff. Modern metalcore, or melodic metalcore, is a fusion between melodic death metal and hardcore or post hardcore. The metalcore riff I'm talking about is a riff borrowed from melodic death metal, as early as At the Gates or Dark Tranquility or In Flames. Those riffs I linked are pretty much the definition of a metalcore band you would hear today. Without it, or any other elements of melodic death metal, a band can't be metalcore (this is assuming early 'metalcore' bands are metallic hardcore and not metalcore). Bring Me the Horizon has absolutely none of this. If you try and match them up with ANY metalcore band nowadays (no mislabeled ones like Underoath or A Day to Remember), the only things similar will be the punk/hardcore/post hardcore styled sections often seen in metalcore choruses.

And don't you dare link early BMtH, I already made it clear earlier that their early stuff is melodic deathcore.

All of you shut up about BMTH. This thread is not to whine about what genre a shitty scene band belongs to.

So any more calls for slam death metal/deathcore?

Check out Ingested for slamming deathcore and Infernal Revulsion for a japanese Suffocation worshiping brutal yet some times slammy death metal band.

I like late 90's/early2000's melodic metalcore bands like Prayer for Cleansing and Undying. Can anyone toss me some similar bands? I'm pretty new to the metalcore genre.

Need some good Hardcore reccs along the lines of Born From Pain, Death Before Dishonor, Thick as Blood, Terror, Icepick, First Blood, Bury Your Dead and the like. Basically modern day Beatdown Hardcore with a lot of Slayer-isms.

You've heard Trapped Under Ice and 25 Ta Life, I take it? Madball and Agnostic Front? (shouldn't even really ask, but I'm in one of those picky thorough moods).

Trash Talk would fit the bill, as would Broken Oath (though they often remind me as much of early On Broken Wings as they do more 'normal' beatdown hardcore, probably because of the muffled production and vocals). There's more, but the names aren't coming to me right now.

While I'm at it, I may as well namedrop Internal Bleeding (just their last album, Onward To Mecca, which was equal parts NYDM and beatdown hardcore), Pyrexia (same, but in their case the change came in earlier - only Sermon Of Mockery is more straightforward Suffo worship) and Revenance (same deal, mix of NYDM and hardcore without being traditional slam). Just for the sake of being a smartass.

Hahahahah obviously. TUI is OK. 25 ta Life, Madball and AF are among my favorite bands. AF was a lifechanging band for me.

None of those actually fit the bill though. They all have that old school 90s style of Beatdown, to be honest. 25TL maybe, but only in their 2000s age. And AF I don't thnk ever got beatdown-y until Another Voice, which was still more rooted on the more hardcore side of things.



Will check those out, heard a lot about em tbh. Will check em out now.



Hahaha, I used to be a big Death Metal junkie so I've heard all of those bands. NYDM is love, especially those with NYHC influences.

I am searching for math/metalcore or modern metal (call it however you want) with crust like vocals

a perfect example are Mia Hope I look
some music to hear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ZPkVnAdhk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vxoolm_JwY

Could someone suggest me some stuff similar to All Shall Perish, this song in particular:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77p4nRKd ... re=related