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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:43 am 
 

Xeogred wrote:
but I think Proud Existence The Trial is really good. Kind of has the same atmosphere as Griffin's debut I'd say. Not US but, sounds like it.

Pretty good stuff, but I probably wouldn't rate it as high as you do.
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Xeogred
Thunderbolt from Hell

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:33 pm 
 

Been listening to Liege Lord's debut a lot again recently ... this is fucking insane, bumped up my rating.
:np:

"Rage of Angels" ~ one of the best USPM songs ever.
Liege Lord = One of the best USPM bands ever.
:headbang:

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Snowgrave
Under The Plaintive Sky

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:04 am 
 

Figured I would post this here...

I'm looking for some good shred acts in the vain of Rusty Cooley. Power metal oriented, rather than progressive or technical, and definitely fast. I assume many will be solo projects.

Oh and Cacophony is another example..
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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:58 am 
 

Racer X's stuff might be worth hearing, kind of. I liked their first two albums but ... it's been forever since I listened to them. Lyrics are utterly cheesy (big hair shit pretty much), but Jeff Martin is a pretty good vocalist I'd say. I think Gilbert is pretty insane, but I think Racer X truly only shows a small bit of his real skill.

Impellitteri also perhaps ...

I don't think these are quite like Rusty Cooley (from what I've heard of his stuff), but they're a little more comparable to Cacophony and whatnot.

Eh, lol. Don't know if those really fit the bill here, but oh well. Also Marty Friedman's "Dragon's Kiss" (although instrumental) is insanely awesome. Sounds like a metal soundtrack to the old Doom games!

I don't think I've ever really heard a Michael Angelo Batio album, but having seen a handful of videos of him off youtube I'm assuming they could potentially be pretty crazy.

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666head
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:42 pm 
 

Been listening to a lot of Brainstorm lately, so are there any bands similar to Brainstorm? Thanks

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:02 am 
 

666head wrote:
Been listening to a lot of Brainstorm lately, so are there any bands similar to Brainstorm? Thanks

Angel Dust. Seriously, Brainstorm rip off this band so much.

They also kind of sound like Dream Evil and Edguy, but you know them I take it.
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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:49 am 
 

Maybe Eidolon.

No idea why they came to mind, but they're one of the modern bands I discovered awhile back that stood out ... at least "Coma Nation" kicks ass. Reminds me of Anthrax's debut a bit (which is good!)

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roadkizzle
Mallcore Kid

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:06 am 
 

I have only recently started listening to any metal in the past two years or so, and so far enjoy some folk, power, and symphonic metal. I have recently gotten Kamelots album Ghost Opera, and love it. Is there any other bands who you would suggest staying similar to Kamelot?

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666head
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:38 pm 
 

roadkizzle wrote:
I have only recently started listening to any metal in the past two years or so, and so far enjoy some folk, power, and symphonic metal. I have recently gotten Kamelots album Ghost Opera, and love it. Is there any other bands who you would suggest staying similar to Kamelot?


They remind me of Epica a whole lot, I think Epica's vocalist was the girlfriend of a Kamelot member. Pretty much any well-known power metal band. You might like Edguy's Hellfire Club (its a good album, despite its reputation on this board) and some Deris era Helloween. Man, this bands is good, first time I've heard their material :p

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:05 pm 
 

Dark at Dawn use a similar songwriting approach to Kamelot, especially on the ...Of Decay and Desire album. And Kamelot themselves are a lot like Gutter Ballet era Savatage, except lacking the ass that made that album half-baked.

But no band is more like Kamelot than Falconer. Very similar riff style and rhythm style, very similar accentuation of a clean, very trained vocalist. Check em out.

I would like more Finnish power metal that is actually more than the usual bullshit, i.e. Twilightning's debut and Sonata Arctica's first 2 albums. Anyone know anything I might've missed?
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666head
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:47 pm 
 

Teräsbetoni I guess, Stratovarius' Episode is also good. Norther and Imperanon are nice, if you don't mind your melodic power metal with melodic death metal. I'm also inclined to suggest Crystallion, though I don't recall if they're Finnish or not, but its not bullshit and its melodic power metal, so it should be along the lines you're looking for.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:49 pm 
 

666head wrote:
Teräsbetoni I guess, Stratovarius' Episode is also good. Norther and Imperanon are nice, if you don't mind your melodic power metal with melodic death metal. I'm also inclined to suggest Crystallion, though I don't recall if they're Finnish or not, but its not bullshit and its melodic power metal, so it should be along the lines you're looking for.

I know Stratovarius, and that album is probably the best Finnish power metal album I can think of, but I'll look into the others. Thanks.
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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:35 pm 
 

Maybe failsafe or some others can help with this one. Recently I got Stormtroopers EP and I have to say it's pretty damn cool, the vocals are easily one of my favorite aspects to it (I have no idea how to describe the guy though). They're like ... early Manowar on steroids or something? There's really not any track on the EP that blows my mind or anything and they're actually a little slower than the norm, but they're really really heavy and it's just fun stuff.

I think they could be compared to Ruthless and Cities. Both, whom are also probably among 2nd tier USPM but again, this more casual stuff is kind of fun to dive in every once and awhile. Also, it's kind of like Ample Destruction I'd say, the traditional elements seem stronger than the epic stuff.

VoD's got samples (just remember these are really low-bit or whatever). I'd say check out "Armies of the Night" for awesome vocals and "The Beast Within" is great all around (reminds me of Tyrant somewhat).
http://www.vibrationsofdoom.com/test/Stormtrooper.html

Maybe I need to back through the archives and search for everything "power" metal in the 80's, obviously seems like I missed some stuff (I think I stopped at 86' too, no real reason though). Alas, MA is userbase driven so it's not always correct I guess you could say.

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Masked_Jackal
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:00 pm 
 

I've decided to help everyone in this thread:

Listen to Flight of the Griffin by Griffin.

You're welcome.

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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:22 pm 
 

Masked_Jackal wrote:
I've decided to help everyone in this thread:

Listen to Flight of the Griffin by Griffin.

You're welcome.

:beer:

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:14 pm 
 

Xeogred wrote:
Maybe failsafe or some others can help with this one.


Wait, what do you want help with? Finding more stuff like Stormtrooper?
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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:40 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Xeogred wrote:
Maybe failsafe or some others can help with this one.


Wait, what do you want help with? Finding more stuff like Stormtrooper?

Uh, yeah, somewhat ... :lol:

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:16 pm 
 

To me, the singer sounds a lot more like the dude from Tyrant than Eric Adams. Along with the guitar solos, he's easily the best part of the band. Unfortunately the riffs are a bit generic.
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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:44 pm 
 

Yeah that's kind of what I meant above (reminds me of Tyrant somewhat, "The Beast Within" definitely). Though their style just seems like some beefed up Manowar-ish stuff, I guess.

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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:37 am 
 

Very random:

Did some random searches tonight since I can never sleep. Not a whole lot of luck. I think I'll go through 1985 again here, 86' seemed a little weak (for the really obscure stuff I haven't heard already). I searched "power speed" from 1980-1990 but didn't really get much at all with that, then just did some random years with "power" only, again.

Weak stuff, I'm probably being nice keeping them:
~ Area (Ger) - Twilight.
~ Prisoner (US) - Rip It Up.
~ Phantom Crew - Thrashing Spree.
~ Metalwolf - Metalwolf. Eh, probably going to delete this. Bleeds NWOBHM, but very radio friendly after the first track I'd say. Bleh.
~ Xcel - Deliver This Dream, probably won't keep this.

The goods:
~ Dark Deception (US) - Sadistic Intentions demo. Not bad, more thrash than anything else though. Solid production for a demo.
~ Ghost Story - Seeds of Destruction demo and The Image And Reality. Don't think I really care for Seeds, but the second one ... wow, has some really impressive stuff. Extremely good production for a demo and it's like, technical-ish power/thrash? No idea, has a lot of cool leads though. Pretty heavy stuff. Awesome drumming. Recommended!
~ Cerebus - Too Late To Pray (hello Tyrant?). Now this is USPM, though the vocals are a little weak sometimes, the screams and shrieks are really good though. The production is a little distanced too, sadly. Liege Lord-esque stuff here, recommended! Hmm, on second thought you kind of get used to the vocals. I think I dig this.
~ Oblivion (US) - Quest For Power. hell yeah nice stuff. Fuckle berries, this is like what Sanctuary should've been like. Production's a little cloudy but tolerable if you like old stuff. Definitely some true USPM here. The first track fucking slays, well they all do! I think this is probably the best find out of this random bunch, if only the production were a little better.

Flatout deleted: Skanners (Ita) - Pictures of War 1988, Tempest (US) - Annihilation Of The Wicked Demo 1986, Wicked Angel (Can) - Tortured By Power Demo 1985, Warminister (US) - Out Of the Ashes 1986, Battlefield (Ger) - Spirit of Time 1993, Orphan Allies (US) - Running From The Law 1986.

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Masked_Jackal
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:20 am 
 

You've sat down and went through every power metal band up until '86?

Xeogred wrote:
Cerebus - Too Late To Pray (hello Tyrant?). Now this is USPM, though the vocals are a little weak sometimes, the screams and shrieks are really good though. The production is a little distanced too, sadly. Liege Lord-esque stuff here, recommended! Hmm, on second thought you kind of get used to the vocals. I think I dig this.
Cerebus is good stuff, the first track and the seventh track are the only ones I remember well. I've been trying to figure out if they spelled "Cerberus" incorrectly or if they took their name from the comic Cerebus (which was accidentally spelled wrong when created) :scratch:

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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:13 pm 
 

Masked_Jackal wrote:
You've sat down and went through every power metal band up until '86?

Xeogred wrote:
Cerebus - Too Late To Pray (hello Tyrant?). Now this is USPM, though the vocals are a little weak sometimes, the screams and shrieks are really good though. The production is a little distanced too, sadly. Liege Lord-esque stuff here, recommended! Hmm, on second thought you kind of get used to the vocals. I think I dig this.
Cerebus is good stuff, the first track and the seventh track are the only ones I remember well. I've been trying to figure out if they spelled "Cerberus" incorrectly or if they took their name from the comic Cerebus (which was accidentally spelled wrong when created) :scratch:

Well, not really last night, but I've done so in the past up to 86' I believe (also by searching "speed" alone too). Though I think I just started at 82' or 83' and I didn't check every single band, but quite a bit, lol. I just did a few searches last night and a bunch of random clicks (mainly just US stuff) and there was some stuff I already had ... that I forgot about, kind of helped me clean up my collection a bit. I will probably be a little more in depth with 87'-90' again when I'm not too lazy.

Have you heard that Oblivion demo? I think you'd probably dig it. :nods:
(just wish the mix were better!)

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Masked_Jackal
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:20 pm 
 

That still seems like a bit of a feat :lol:

I did check out Oblivion earlier and yes, I did like it. I liked the last track a lot and it had that Dickinson-esque laugh in the beginning :metal:

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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:23 pm 
 

Haha, yeah the times I did that did take up a good bit of time ... :lol:

Don't know what I'd do without MA/TM. :roll:

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Forrizzledog
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:53 pm 
 

Could someone rec me some really bass heavy power metal? Not bassy production necessarily, but lots of bass guitar. I'd just as soon they not be super obscure, but I'll try anything.

The kinda stuff I've been getting into is the more aggressive stuff. Norther and Kalmah especially. I also love the little bit of Blind Guardian I've been hearing from Nightfall... onward. As long as it's riffy, got some nice rhythms, and is somewhat aggressive, and has a lot of bass, it'll do.
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rexxz
Retired

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:56 pm 
 

HIIIIIBRIAAAAAA


No seriously, Hibria has fantastic bass guitar action throughout every song.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:00 am 
 

Xeogred wrote:
Very random:

Did some random searches tonight since I can never sleep. Not a whole lot of luck. I think I'll go through 1985 again here, 86' seemed a little weak (for the really obscure stuff I haven't heard already). I searched "power speed" from 1980-1990 but didn't really get much at all with that, then just did some random years with "power" only, again.


Ha, now you're starting to get into stuff I don't recognize, I've only done cursory searches into demo-only bands. I don't remember liking Cerebus much, though. Honestly I can't really remember much at all about them, I must've found them pretty mediocre. Ugh, I still curse the day my computer bit the dust, temporarily separating me from my precious MP3s. Should be getting a new mobo pretty soon, though.

While we're randomly recommending stuff, though, some people might be interested in Enchanter (US). They released a compilation of their 80s material earlier this year, and it's actually pretty good. It's blatant Fates Warning worship, but they have enough of their own ideas so that it's not just the same but worse. I'd probably give it around an 80%, though I haven't had it long enough to know for sure.
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Helena
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:02 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:10 pm 
 

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/DaTVAy2AELw/

who can tell me what's the name of this song? which band? thx ~~

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Silencia
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:24 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:23 pm 
 

The new Dark Empire is really good. For those who don't know, they're a power metal band from New York with Jens Carlsson on vocals. If you liked the first one then you will like this one.
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rexxz
Retired

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:25 pm 
 

Silencia wrote:
The new Dark Empire is really good. For those who don't know, they're a power metal band from New York with Jens Carlsson on vocals. If you liked the first one then you will like this one.


Yep, already have it. The debut is good too.

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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:27 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
While we're randomly recommending stuff, though, some people might be interested in Enchanter (US). They released a compilation of their 80s material earlier this year, and it's actually pretty good. It's blatant Fates Warning worship, but they have enough of their own ideas so that it's not just the same but worse. I'd probably give it around an 80%, though I haven't had it long enough to know for sure.

How's the production on the compilation? Looks like it's some extra tracks though so I'll probably look for it. The 89' demo rip I have is really rough, kind of scratchy, etc. I really dig the 88' one though. Don't think I'm a fan of Longings Past though.

But yeah, I used to shrug off demo's but I definitely discovered that was quite a mistake. Though it's usually like a big hit or miss, some stuff is just not that great at all or the production is so dated I can't enjoy it, but every once and awhile there seems to be some awesome gems here and there. I can't remember if I talked about them earlier, but newer ones I've discovered would be Assalant (power/thrash I'd say) and Oblivion Knight (Militia's really good too but more thrashy) that I thought were pretty cool. Brute Force's second demo is really good too (makes me think of Deadly Blessing sometimes, like with " Victim of Obsession"). Then there's the epic Heathen's Rage.

And man, I've completely lost my taste for modern power metal pretty much. Since my net was down for awhile I finally decided to clean out some of my folders and organize stuff, I deleted new stuff left and right ... I can honestly say the one thing that made me say "ugh" quicker than anything else was usually the vocals. I really think there's a huge difference in vocals between 80's-90's metal and modern stuff. Can't really explain it though, maybe I can say new stuff is more opera-ish? There just seemed to be such a lack of aggression in the majority of the stuff I was deleting. I dunno. Maybe I've just completely fallen into 80's fanboyism... :lol:

There were a handful of bands that stood out when cleaning up all my damn folders. Original Sin was one, pretty awesome stuff. The female vocals are pretty damn awesome but also extremely scary, scary in the fact that it seems like if she hit a few octaves higher your ear drums would explode. Though she doesn't even sound that high pitched compared to some of the guys out there, I think perhaps it's her singing style that makes her vocals a little piercing ... but it's cool.

I wish Crypt were better. The first track off their album is insanely good, but after that they sound like a different band song after song.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:12 am 
 

Xeogred wrote:
failsafeman wrote:
While we're randomly recommending stuff, though, some people might be interested in Enchanter (US). They released a compilation of their 80s material earlier this year, and it's actually pretty good. It's blatant Fates Warning worship, but they have enough of their own ideas so that it's not just the same but worse. I'd probably give it around an 80%, though I haven't had it long enough to know for sure.

How's the production on the compilation? Looks like it's some extra tracks though so I'll probably look for it. The 89' demo rip I have is really rough, kind of scratchy, etc. I really dig the 88' one though.

It's actually pretty decent. I've heard albums with worse production. They have it over at thrashmageddon, so give it a try if you haven't already.

Xeogred wrote:
But yeah, I used to shrug off demo's but I definitely discovered that was quite a mistake. Though it's usually like a big hit or miss, some stuff is just not that great at all or the production is so dated I can't enjoy it, but every once and awhile there seems to be some awesome gems here and there.

So far I've stuck mostly to bands that have at least released an EP or LP, as with demo-only bands you're slogging through even more crap to find the good stuff, and the good stuff is still usually more underproduced than normal. Anyway, at this point I've heard pretty much every 80s power metal album there is, so I'm basically stuck with demos and more modern stuff now. :lol:

Xeogred wrote:
And man, I've completely lost my taste for modern power metal pretty much. Since my net was down for awhile I finally decided to clean out some of my folders and organize stuff, I deleted new stuff left and right ... I can honestly say the one thing that made me say "ugh" quicker than anything else was usually the vocals. I really think there's a huge difference in vocals between 80's-90's metal and modern stuff. Can't really explain it though, maybe I can say new stuff is more opera-ish? There just seemed to be such a lack of aggression in the majority of the stuff I was deleting. I dunno. Maybe I've just completely fallen into 80's fanboyism... :lol:

No, I sort of understand what you mean. Recently I've been sort of edging my way into modern power metal, and trying a lot of random bands; honestly the two things that bug me the most are the drumming and the riffs. Non-aggressive vocals are definitely up there too, as you can probably tell from my Helloween review. I remember we discussed this before, and like Shutdown said a lot of the modern stuff seems to get its "heaviness" and aggression from the drums, rather than the riffs and vocals like with most 80s power metal. I mean, endless double-bass abuse simply didn't exist back then, and even if you listen to Randy Foxe from Manilla Road, who's a really busy and flashy drummer, he barely ever leans on the double bass like everyone seems to do these days. The riff style is a big complaint from me too, as in many bands they're very much less important than the vocal melodies and guitar leads, and usually suck anyway. Just like 8th generation slowed-down speed metal and NWOBHM knockoff riffs, and the bane of all modern riffing, the funkily-syncopated one-chord riff. In metal, riffs are supposed to be a main melody, not a part of the fucking rhythm section.
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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:40 am 
 

failsafeman wrote:
No, I sort of understand what you mean. Recently I've been sort of edging my way into modern power metal, and trying a lot of random bands; honestly the two things that bug me the most are the drumming and the riffs. Non-aggressive vocals are definitely up there too, as you can probably tell from my Helloween review. I remember we discussed this before, and like Shutdown said a lot of the modern stuff seems to get its "heaviness" and aggression from the drums, rather than the riffs and vocals like with most 80s power metal. I mean, endless double-bass abuse simply didn't exist back then, and even if you listen to Randy Foxe from Manilla Road, who's a really busy and flashy drummer, he barely ever leans on the double bass like everyone seems to do these days. The riff style is a big complaint from me too, as in many bands they're very much less important than the vocal melodies and guitar leads, and usually suck anyway. Just like 8th generation slowed-down speed metal and NWOBHM knockoff riffs, and the bane of all modern riffing, the funkily-syncopated one-chord riff. In metal, riffs are supposed to be a main melody, not a part of the fucking rhythm section.

Yeah, I don't think I can argue against this point at all. Guitar driven stuff usually does it for me, probably the reason why I typically find myself going towards [old]speed/power/thrash/NWOBHM.

I think I can say some of the newer 'retro'-thrash bands emerging out there recently are doing a fairly good job bringing the riffs back, though I still have to give some of that stuff a lot of time to let it really sink in. As for power metal, I'm sure you've heard them but I gotta say Hibria is still an epic force in my book. I've had their debut I think since it came out and it's something I can still go back to and really enjoy. Now, if they'd just hurry it up with their follow up!

Anyways, give those demo's a shot if you've got the time I guess. I also hope you've heard Glacier's 88' demo. :thumbsup:

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:42 am 
 

Yea, I'm checking out some of those demos right now. While we're tossing recs around, I might as well throw in Glory Hunter (Ita) too. One of the few Italian power metal bands I've found that doesn't suck. Unfortunately I've only been able to track down their first demo (it's on thrashmageddon), but it's quite good; sounds a lot like white collar USPM, despite being from Italy. The singer sounds a lot like the guy from Black Sun (Fra), which I guess might also might be a good rec; Imperial Journey is quite solid, though it doesn't sound very French.
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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:43 am 
 

Really digging Glory Hunter. "Colours Of My Life" and "Path Of Darkness" are pretty awesome.

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thomash
Metal Philosopher

Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:31 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:30 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
No, I sort of understand what you mean. Recently I've been sort of edging my way into modern power metal, and trying a lot of random bands; honestly the two things that bug me the most are the drumming and the riffs. Non-aggressive vocals are definitely up there too, as you can probably tell from my Helloween review. I remember we discussed this before, and like Shutdown said a lot of the modern stuff seems to get its "heaviness" and aggression from the drums, rather than the riffs and vocals like with most 80s power metal. I mean, endless double-bass abuse simply didn't exist back then, and even if you listen to Randy Foxe from Manilla Road, who's a really busy and flashy drummer, he barely ever leans on the double bass like everyone seems to do these days. The riff style is a big complaint from me too, as in many bands they're very much less important than the vocal melodies and guitar leads, and usually suck anyway. Just like 8th generation slowed-down speed metal and NWOBHM knockoff riffs, and the bane of all modern riffing, the funkily-syncopated one-chord riff. In metal, riffs are supposed to be a main melody, not a part of the fucking rhythm section.

I agree with a lot of this. Frankly, there are very few power metal bands that I really like. Even a lot of the 80s power metal, while more riff-oriented, feels a bit underwritten to me. However, I think that the idea of power metal is a good one that just tends to result in underwritten material because it requires a different approach; the idea, as I perceive it, is to create an epic atmosphere through prominent, operatic clean vocals. The problem is that this only works well in a metal band as long as the riffs are complex and/or catchy enough to be interesting in their own right without upstaging the vocals which is a difficult balance to establish.

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Xeogred
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:12 pm 
 

thomash wrote:
failsafeman wrote:
No, I sort of understand what you mean. Recently I've been sort of edging my way into modern power metal, and trying a lot of random bands; honestly the two things that bug me the most are the drumming and the riffs. Non-aggressive vocals are definitely up there too, as you can probably tell from my Helloween review. I remember we discussed this before, and like Shutdown said a lot of the modern stuff seems to get its "heaviness" and aggression from the drums, rather than the riffs and vocals like with most 80s power metal. I mean, endless double-bass abuse simply didn't exist back then, and even if you listen to Randy Foxe from Manilla Road, who's a really busy and flashy drummer, he barely ever leans on the double bass like everyone seems to do these days. The riff style is a big complaint from me too, as in many bands they're very much less important than the vocal melodies and guitar leads, and usually suck anyway. Just like 8th generation slowed-down speed metal and NWOBHM knockoff riffs, and the bane of all modern riffing, the funkily-syncopated one-chord riff. In metal, riffs are supposed to be a main melody, not a part of the fucking rhythm section.

I agree with a lot of this. Frankly, there are very few power metal bands that I really like. Even a lot of the 80s power metal, while more riff-oriented, feels a bit underwritten to me. However, I think that the idea of power metal is a good one that just tends to result in underwritten material because it requires a different approach; the idea, as I perceive it, is to create an epic atmosphere through prominent, operatic clean vocals. The problem is that this only works well in a metal band as long as the riffs are complex and/or catchy enough to be interesting in their own right without upstaging the vocals which is a difficult balance to establish.

Not sure if I agree with some of this, when it comes to older stuff vs new stuff. I think you could just simply say there's a huge lack of aggression in the genre thesedays (and riffs definitely help here). That and I just don't always get that sense of modern stuff making me say "damn this is metal", some is really overdone, pompous, productions are too sparkly, and well I guess I could say a lot of stuff just sounds totally "fake" nowadays. Alas, a lot of those bands out there probably do have heart for their work, perhaps technology and just the advancement of life could be to blame here.

Perhaps you're expecting a little too much in this department concerning the "epic" factor. I certainly believe there's a ton of power metal out there that you really couldn't call "epic" at all, moreso they're just tougher and more technical heavy metal. Clean vocals also aren't exactly a must, kind of like the B-grade bands I mentioned above such as Stormtrooper, Ruthless, Cities, etc. I think a good example of stuff not being too epic with rougher vocals might be Liege Lord's Master Control. Just so happens that this style usually does have clean, melodic vocalists though. Kind of like I said above though I think one of the issues with modern power metal (from anywhere) is that the vocals are too operatic. A lot of older bands with crazy shriekers and whatnot I probably wouldn't even call clean or melodic vocalists, maybe Apollo Ra is a good example here. That guy is just crazy and completely all over the place, while managing to still be really aggressive with high pitched vocals.

Just my take on all this though.

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thomash
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:22 pm 
 

Xeogred wrote:
I think you could just simply say there's a huge lack of aggression in the genre thesedays (and riffs definitely help here). That and I just don't always get that sense of modern stuff making me say "damn this is metal", some is really overdone, pompous, productions are too sparkly, and well I guess I could say a lot of stuff just sounds totally "fake" nowadays.

That's certainly true. I didn't mention the problems of overproduction because I wanted to focus on songwriting, but I agree with this wholeheartedly.

Xeogred wrote:
Perhaps you're expecting a little too much in this department concerning the "epic" factor. I certainly believe there's a ton of power metal out there that you really couldn't call "epic" at all, moreso they're just tougher and more technical heavy metal... Kind of like I said above though I think one of the issues with modern power metal (from anywhere) is that the vocals are too operatic. A lot of older bands with crazy shriekers and whatnot I probably wouldn't even call clean or melodic vocalists.

Yeah, I think 'operatic' wasn't quite the word I was looking for. However, I consider most bands with shrieking or otherwise more aggressive vocals to be epic as well, just in a different way. If anything, I tend to prefer slightly harsher vocals in Power Metal because I think that they can be much more 'epic' in that they can be very evocative and dramatic. I don't really understand why you'd consider Power to be 'more technical heavy metal;' if anything, I generally think that it's less technical because it tends to overuse chord progressions and underuse riffs. If you're talking about Prog-Power, then I agree, but I don't think that you could say that Power Metal on the whole is more technical than Heavy Metal.

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Xeogred
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:28 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:35 pm 
 

thomash wrote:
I don't really understand why you'd consider Power to be 'more technical heavy metal;' if anything, I generally think that it's less technical because it tends to overuse chord progressions and underuse riffs. If you're talking about Prog-Power, then I agree, but I don't think that you could say that Power Metal on the whole is more technical than Heavy Metal.

Hmmm, I see what you mean here. Well, I really do think a lot of power metal (again maybe just talking USPM) does have more of an emphasis on guitars and vocals over everything else and typically the guitar work is probably faster than traditional heavy metal. Maybe I'm crazy, but I sometimes connect USPM to NWOBHM moreso than I do with heavy metal.

But yeah, I agree with your point. It would be a little unfair to just say power metal is more technical than heavy. I think instead of that I should just say (I usually) believe it's faster and sometimes heavier stuff than traditional.

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failsafeman
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:48 pm 
 

There are obviously different takes on power metal. It's really not a clear progression from NWOBHM => heavy metal => power metal, as power metal took some elements directly from NWOBHM and some from proto-power heavy metal bands like Manowar and early Riot. As for the "more technical" aspect, some early power metal is, but I'd say the defining factors would be the atmosphere and certain compositional conventions; kinda hard to actually formalize, but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about. It's what makes "The Altar of the King" and "Battle Hymn" power metal while the rest of the stuff on their respective albums is pretty straight heavy metal.
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http://extrememetalencyclopedia.webs.com/

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