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Oblarg
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:59 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:36 am 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
rooster85 wrote:
Can someone tell me difference between blue collar USPM and white collar USPM and give examples of bands to each of these "subgenres"?


I think blue collar means they have less technique and inferior production and white collar means the guitar players practice with a metronome, the singers have taken lessons, and they spent more $ in the studio. :)


This really isn't it at all. Helstar are about as technical/refined as you're gonna get, and they're pretty clearly blue-collar. On the other hand Antiquus are rather sloppy at times on Eleutheria, and it's very clearly a low-budget rough production, but that's as white-collar of an album as it gets.

It's worth noting that the blue collar/white collar distinction is only one of many dimensions of a band's sound, and it is not a strict dichotomy; thus, many blue-collar bands sound more similar to certain white-collar bands than they do to other blue-collar bands (Fates Warning and Liege Lord sound very much alike, etc). It's simply a handy way to summarize two generalized approaches to the genre that many bands took.
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SolstafirAquilaria
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:40 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:25 am 
 

rooster85 wrote:
Can someone tell me difference between blue collar USPM and white collar USPM and give examples of bands to each of these "subgenres"?

I'd recommend reading (the start of) failsafeman's reviews of Omen's Battle Cry and Queensryche's The Warning.

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Opus
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 2473
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:23 pm 
 

bronxeel wrote:
After Manilla Road and Slough Feg

Doh, Dark Quarterer of course! Don't know how I forgot them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fuo5Ie78FA

This rehearsal video is just beautiful!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOMrTpB8FPI
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I_Am_Vengeance
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:41 pm 
 

So looks like Slough Feg officially released their new track here.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:48 pm 
 

I_Am_Vengeance wrote:
So looks like Slough Feg officially released their new track here.


Holy shit that was awesome. Loving the metallized riffs in the context of their more stripped down later stuff...and the cool laser effects.
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HamburgerBoy
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:17 am 
 

Oblarg wrote:
This really isn't it at all. Helstar are about as technical/refined as you're gonna get, and they're pretty clearly blue-collar.


Huh, Helstar (at least if we're talking A Distant Thunder and Nosferatu) would be one of the first examples I'd give for a white-collar USPM band. The technicality and production is a big part of that for my understanding of the terms admittedly, but then you have Rivera's squeaky clean vocals, the neo-classical-leaning melodies and leadwork, and lyrics more flowery and less visceral than your typical Omen or Griffin (albeit still often violent enough vs a Queensryche) altogether basically define white-collar USPM for me.

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Zelkiiro
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Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:16 am 
 

I_Am_Vengeance wrote:
So looks like Slough Feg officially released their new track here.

Could this mean...a new album soon?! :drool:
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dontlivefastjustdie
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:54 am 
 

Heard that SF song a couple weeks ago, color me VERY excited!
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WaywardSon
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:56 am 
 

So the fella from Priomodial got together some underground names to form a group called Twilight of the Gods. They were supposed to be a Bathory tribute band, but since they decided to record under that name, their music is apparently different from their namesake. Here's a track from their upcoming debut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... mtBeUA8cTA

Very traditional sounding. A bit generic, but it picks up near the end. Hopes there's better stuff on the album.
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shouvince
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:46 am 
 

Yeah, they've played a couple of shows. ToTG has some interesting band members from well known bands but with regards to this song I wasn't too impressed with it. I dig the vocals but it sounds too familiar, maybe generic like you said.

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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:15 am 
 

Why is there not a ripping speed metal riff after that narration part? This song makes me want to punch Blasphemer in the dick a little bit.
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Element_man
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:35 am 
 

Huh, I kind of liked it. Alan's vocals are just wild in this, never knew he would wail like that
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:19 pm 
 

Vocals were good, but nothing else was good enough for me to care. Pass.
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Acrobat
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:12 am 
 

Yeah, the vocals were great - as expected. But those were some flat riffs, man, sounds like the sort of thing I'd expect from a second-rate Greek Manowar worship band. Naff production, too.
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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:30 pm 
 

I'm with FSM and ANA. The vocals are suitably great, but the music isn't terribly interesting. Far from it, in fact.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:51 am 
 

It wasn't even so much the riffs themselves as the song structure. For example, right after the spoken part the vocals kick into high-gear with the high-pitched screaming, which is great, but the guitars utterly fail to similarly ramp up. What was needed right there was a really kick-ass headbanging riff with a big groove, instead we got a sort of plodding mid-placed riff. It's not like other bands haven't written plenty of examples of great spoken-word bits for them to follow, I could list a dozen.
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VirginSteele_Helstar
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:28 am 
 

Really bland music but I'm curious to hear more. Alan's vocal style always moves me.
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henkkjelle
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:27 am 
 

Hey, all of you heavy metal aficionados :wink:, could you recommend me something akin to Dawnbringer - In Sickness and in Dreams? I'm looking for short albums with lots of short, energetic songs.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:37 pm 
 

I've never heard that Dawnbringer album, but as far as short and energetic goes I have to throw Black Death by Brocas Helm your way. I believe it's about 28 minutes long? The production is a mess but once you adjust I think you'll love it.

Edit: Also very short and energetic (although not balls out speedy), Fire in the Brain by Oz! Just recently got into this one myself. It's kinda got that nwobhm-from-a-different-land vibe. Snot nosed attitude on every track, less than 30 minute album...its great.
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Metallic Shock
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:09 pm 
 

I just want to point out how cool Jon Oliva's new solo album Raise the Curtain is. I haven't seen it discussed much here yet. It's got kind of a 70s prog vibe to the instrumentation, but the classic Oliva songwriting and singing. Highly recommended for people who like his more experimental work and Gutter Ballet era Savatage or so.

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dontlivefastjustdie
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:32 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
I've never heard that Dawnbringer album, but as far as short and energetic goes I have to throw Black Death by Brocas Helm your way. I believe it's about 28 minutes long? The production is a mess but once you adjust I think you'll love it.

Edit: Also very short and energetic (although not balls out speedy), Fire in the Brain by Oz! Just recently got into this one myself. It's kinda got that nwobhm-from-a-different-land vibe. Snot nosed attitude on every track, less than 30 minute album...its great.

Haven't heard that Dawnbringer album either but for short and energetic I'll rec Twisted Tower Dire's last album.
http://cruzdelsurmusic.bandcamp.com/album/make-it-dark
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uzilover
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:34 pm 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
I_Am_Vengeance wrote:
So looks like Slough Feg officially released their new track here.

Could this mean...a new album soon?! :drool:



They've finished recording the bass and drums and it's going to be called 'The Digital Resistance'. It's going to out on Metal Blade and it can't come soon enough.

I agree that the TOTG song wasn't all that it could have been. Maybe Blasphemer is all riffed out after the last Aura Noir album? The drumming was a bit flat too. I'm still interested in hearing some more of their stuff though.

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HellishHound
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 11:46 pm 
 

So guys, I was wondering if anyone could rec me some traditional heavy metal bands with progressive, jazzy influences, if their even is such a thing? Thanks in advance guys!
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DeathRiderDoom
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:27 pm 
 

Metallic Shock wrote:
I just want to point out how cool Jon Oliva's new solo album Raise the Curtain is. I haven't seen it discussed much here yet. It's got kind of a 70s prog vibe to the instrumentation, but the classic Oliva songwriting and singing. Highly recommended for people who like his more experimental work and Gutter Ballet era Savatage or so.

I really havent been following what Jon Oliva's been upto for the last few years. He probably has several albums and stuff i havent heard. It should really start being more of a nerd and keeping up with these things. His stuff is usually interesting.
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Oblarg
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:44 am 
 

HellishHound wrote:
So guys, I was wondering if anyone could rec me some traditional heavy metal bands with progressive, jazzy influences, if their even is such a thing? Thanks in advance guys!


Check out Archetype.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHbXzs97jM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNmxCLdbAls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts6eTz_DKA8
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DeathRiderDoom
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:06 am 
 

HellishHound wrote:
So guys, I was wondering if anyone could rec me some traditional heavy metal bands with progressive, jazzy influences, if their even is such a thing? Thanks in advance guys!

I'm not sure how into/well versed you are in older traditional heavy metal/hard rock, 70s progessive rock, AOR, but there are a few cool bands from the late 70s, early 80s that kinda mix all that stuff up. I dunno about the jazzy part though.

A couple bands i really dig are Touch:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb_4XBxryJE

And Triumph. A rad hard rock/trad metal band from late 70s/early 80s.

Again i'm not sure this is really what you're meaning.
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HellishHound
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:43 pm 
 

I did like Archetype alot and I'm definitely gonna listen to that album. But sadly I'm looking for something less power metal and just straight up Old School trad. Heavy Metal, NWOBHM with progressive, jazzy influences mainly in the soloing. And I did like that Touch song alot actually, but it's still not exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks both of you guys for the recs though I appreciate it!
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DeathRiderDoom
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:31 pm 
 

HellishHound wrote:
I did like Archetype alot and I'm definitely gonna listen to that album. But sadly I'm looking for something less power metal and just straight up Old School trad. Heavy Metal, NWOBHM with progressive, jazzy influences mainly in the soloing. And I did like that Touch song alot actually, but it's still not exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks both of you guys for the recs though I appreciate it!
Touch and related bands probably do have more proggier sounding tracks than that - think Asia.
There's a bit of a small subgenre of NWOBHM bands with a lot of 70s progressive rock influence. Check out Saracen's first album, for example. Other bands include Chasar, and perhaps Omega. I havent been listening to this stuff for a while though, so a few of them probably slip my mind at the moment but there are a few other users in here with knowledge on the subject also.
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ShadeOfDarkness
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:03 pm 
 

I'm looking for some speedy power metal with fierce high vocals. The best example I can come up with right now is this track from Heavenly. I'm sure I've heard other stuff like this, but with all the stuff I've listened to lately, it's a pain to keep track of everything. But any recs are appreciated, as I might not have checked several bands and albums out fully.

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The Animator
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:20 pm 
 

ShadeOfDarkness wrote:
I'm looking for some speedy power metal with fierce high vocals.


Well the best you will probably find for that is Kai Hansen, so Helloween's Walls of Jericho, and then Gamma Ray are the place to start if you haven't listened to them already.

You might also want to try
Rawhead Rexx:
Youtube: show


Lost Horizon:
Youtube: show


Scanner:
Youtube: show


This one is more power/thrash but you may enjoy HeadHunter:
Youtube: show

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ShadeOfDarkness
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:21 am 
 

The Animator wrote:
ShadeOfDarkness wrote:
I'm looking for some speedy power metal with fierce high vocals.


Well the best you will probably find for that is Kai Hansen, so Helloween's Walls of Jericho, and then Gamma Ray are the place to start if you haven't listened to them already.

You might also want to try
Rawhead Rexx:
Youtube: show


Lost Horizon:
Youtube: show


Scanner:
Youtube: show


This one is more power/thrash but you may enjoy HeadHunter:
Youtube: show

Thanks a lot dude!

Yeah, I love Kai Hansen's vocals. I started listening to Gamma Ray a couple of months ago, and really love that band. Helloween I've been listening to for years, but there, I like Andi Deris' vocals even better. The only thing that has bugged me a little with Hansen at times is that he's not always completely on key. That goes for a lot of other vocalists too, but the guy in Heavenly was not one of them, at least on the track I referred to above.

I think I had some Rawhead Rexx songs a while back on one of my old computers, but I do not remember how it sounded. I'll have to check that one again. Thanks for the reminder! :)

Lost Horizon has for me kinda become one of those bands that everybody preaches about, and I'm just getting tired of. I mean, the guy can sing and all, but he's showboating almost all the time with "Hey! I can sing high as fuck notes! Whenever I want to!! So I'm gonna go right ahead and do it as often as possible!" I don't hate the guy (or the band) or anything, but I just never really got it. I'll give that one more shot though, since you recommended it based on what I had already said.

Scanner I've only heard mentioned before. Will have to check that one out.

Oh yeah, Schmier's side project. Used to listen a lot to this and Destruction before, so this one I know very well. Liked their last album, but haven't listened as much t othe earlier stuff as I should have.

Thanks again for the recs!

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Punishing
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:02 am 
 

HellishHound wrote:
So guys, I was wondering if anyone could rec me some traditional heavy metal bands with progressive, jazzy influences, if their even is such a thing? Thanks in advance guys!


The bands Anarchy, Scorched Legacy and Wyvern (all Egyptian, by the way!)

Plus these guys;
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Leviathan/1118
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:35 pm 
 

I wasn't sure people still talked about Lost Horizon much. Definitely a really good band, though back when they were still releasing stuff they were pretty overhyped. Still, the songwriting talent is undeniable there.
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The Animator
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:25 pm 
 

Well Empyreal, I only picked up Lost Horizon albums a year or two back after briefly sampling a track and reading a bunch of reviews raving about them. It made me feel very underwhelmed when listening to the album though. To me it's more of a, what competent power metal should sound like as apposed to what a lot of people have made it out to be. Still ShadeOfDarkness asked for "fierce high vocals" and that was one I thought of off the top of my head.

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:14 pm 
 

Lost Horizon are very good, I'd say. Easily one of my favorite Euro Power bands. Great energy, vocals, plus an actual emphasis on the riffs. "Welcome Back" for example has a great one. They do have a propensity toward pretension, but much less so than other big names in the style. They were pretty overhyped a while back, but for me they still sound good.
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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:16 pm 
 

Checked out Hanker for the nth time, and it finally clicked with me. This stuff is fantastic - The Dead Ringer at least. Fantastic riffs, progressive song structures, cool concepts...pretty much the full package. I don't know if all the albums are this good, but if they're anywhere close I'll be a happy dude for the next couple of weeks.

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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:22 am 
 

You guys have any interest in trying to drum up some conversation about songs you've heard from the last...I don't know, let's say five years, that you would say are absolutely flawless, perfect, life-affirming pieces of heavy metal? Not whole albums, EPs, demos, just individual songs that bring you to your knees with pure heavy metal bliss.

The song that has me thinking along these lines is Sailor on the Seas of Fate by Borrowed Time. There are a lot of really obvious tangible things I could harp on about like incredible riffs, a perfect low-budget production/tone, and ridiculously tasteful song-writing choices but fuck all that because it's been said and re-said about a million different songs. It's the intangibles that really get me about this one. What made them decide to go for that perfect multi-tiered intro? It's decadent but so calculatedly short at the same time. Then there's the fact that they're managing to sing about Elric like it's a subject that has NEVER been touched before in metal. The passion that dude brings to the vocals, especially when he soars in the chorus just gets to me man. But my absolute favorite thing? It sounds like they would have recorded this song even if they never thought anyone would hear it. It sounds like they are having the time of their life. And I usually end up feeling that way listening to it. Like I said it's really just this one song, the band is great and they have other good material but it's obvious the stars were aligned perfectly when they wrote/recorded this masterpiece. Flawless.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:30 am 
 

Oh yeah, that one is definitely my favorite Borrowed Time song and the one that made me sit up and really take notice of the band back when I first heard it on their Myspace page. FYI it's actually the bassist and not the singer who sings the high-pitched parts in the chorus, and he nailed them when I saw the band live. Still, I think Blacksword win my vote for "best Elric metal band." ;)

As for me, I'll pick something a little lesser-known (though something I have hyped here before) and go with Bud Tribe's Roll the Bone. It's just a great power metal song with a driving speed metal main riff and a great gruff baritone (whose nickname "Bud" gives the band its name). At first I didn't think too much of Bud Tribe; though energetic and powerful, their songwriting isn't particularly flashy or ear-grabbing - but over years of listening to them my estimation slowly crept up and up and now I really, really enjoy the album and this song in particular. The quiet section in the middle is just amazing, and does everything a quiet section in a heavy metal song ought to - it's moody, atmospheric, and builds up to an awesome return to heaviness accompanied by a manic guitar solo. Really, "Roll the Bone" is less an instant, ear-fellating classic than a great example of why this style of metal has these songwriting conventions in the first place: when done right, they work extremely well.

WARNING: the Youtube rip I linked sounds a lot worse than the track on the album.
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DeathRiderDoom
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:55 am 
 

Partied with those guys on the train to, and at, Keep it True XVI. Singer was a really rad dude. Ich habe Fotos of the vibes. Haven't really been active on the forums lately so am not really aware of your guys' thought on that band...
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Razorwyre:
promo track track from 'Another Dimension' LP
"The best speed metal album of the year"

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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11194
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:00 am 
 

Borrowed Time, you mean? They're rad. I chatted with the (very drunk) singer when I saw them live and JP told me and my girlfriend all about how he was huge into Virgin Steele and bought his girlfriend all this Virgin Steele merch. Then somehow he found me on facebook and added me, even though I don't think I even told him my last name. It was kind of weird, but anyway I like Borrowed Time a lot yeah. Oh, and then another time I saw him on stage with Manilla Road for "Necropolis", which he NAILED. He was fanboying so hard up there the whole time, it was hilarious.
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MorbidBlood wrote:
So the winner is Destruction and Infernal Overkill is the motherfucking skullcrushing poserkilling satan-worshiping 666 FUCK YOU greatest german thrash record.

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