Most overrated band ever? Coming from a fucking Gamma Ray fan, jesus!

Damn Legend, you really do fucking hate Rage

I personally like them a lot. I don't listen to them as much as I should, but The Missing Link, Black in Mind, Welcome to the Other Side, Unity, Soundchaser and 21 are all pretty awesome. I actually like to see them as the power metal equivalent of Motorhead; a power trio (whose bassist and main songwriter also happens to be the singer) with a very pugilistic, compact, well defined and consistent sound.

LegendMaker went off his meds again, I see. Anyway I'd hardly say Rage are that overrated, it's hardly like we're crawling with fanboys here. I myself never really liked them all that much, in any of their eras. Their style is very distinctive, but honestly I just don't like it that much. They have some cool songs, but really every album I've heard is like 15 minutes too long and I always get tired of it before it's over.

French people are crazy! I like Rage but, except their 2 or 3 first albums, all their albums are really too long.

Xlxlxlxlxlxlxl, is there a band discussed here that you don't like?

Well, it might look as if I like everything, because I don't usually talk about bands that I don't enjoy to some degree, as I don't see much of a point in it Not to mention the fact that, since I joined this board, heavy/power metal has pretty much replaced thrash as my favorite sub-genre, and I have found myself loving tons of it.

So yeah, I went a bit overboard in my anti-Rage statement. To put it in context, I actually revisited their whole post-Perfect Man discography as I was writing that post, and the rage accumulated from one irritating track after the other eventually climaxed in the clusterfuck of insults over YT links you all witnessed.

You're right, failsafeman, it's not like Rage was discussed that often on this board, let alone thrown down my throat on a regular basis. In broader circles however, many tend to associate them with the most influential and notable bands of the German scene (BNR for instance tried to coin a "Big Four" of 80s German PM, which included Helloween, RW, Grave Digger and them), and they're still fairly popular and churning out an album every other year to this day without a problem. Considering my genuine dislike for all but their 80s stuff, it's a bit puzzling to me how they can maintain such a status, is all.

@ANA: I wouldn't really consider myself a GR fan anymore, though I still enjoy early- to mid-period stuff quite a bit. But yeah, I see your point.

Still can't get into Rage at all myself. Got a kick out of that though...

They write pretty poppy choruses, but they're good poppy choruses. Except on Strings to a Web anyway.

A lot of their 90s stuff is pretty frustrating. A few AWESOME songs then you realize you still have 70 minutes of music left and not all of it is anywhere close to as good...End of All Days was especially like that, I remember.

The only older albums I've got from Rage are The Missing Link and Black in Mind. While they both have some excellent tracks, I agree that they're overlong. I don't think I've heard the end of The Missing Link, admittedly. What a shit attention span I have!

Here you have something to drool over... A massive preproduction preview of third Rocka Rollas album!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBwg2-hpmwg
It sounds pretty good already, but I will re-record everything with much better sound and performance during the summer. This album will be a fucking beast...
But yeah I hope Joe Liszt gets finished with the vocals of second album as well soon, haha.

Wait, there's a second Rocka Rollas album already? I bought the first one and it was pretty rad. How about a review copy?

The guy writes 9 albums in advance before releasing a new one didn't you know? Check out his youtube channel, its filled to the brim with all conceivable genres. The guy never stops. But hell, its all gold. The guys a monster that never fails to deliver.

Right but I didn't know he had actually published a second one.

Yop, RR is a force to be reckoned with, that's for sure.

@failsafe: I don't think that's the case; the second album is recorded as far as music goes, but has no vocals yet, if I understood correctly. The man just gets work done quite a bit ahead, so by the time an album is actually released, he's already finished recording the next one, and is at the writing stage for the one after that, basically.

Exactly, second album awaits vocal recording, then it's going to be released... Weird, huh? :mrgreen:

However it feels a bit odd to get that released since i cringe every time I listen to the drums, they are really sloppy at times... But I don't know, most poeple I have shown it too say it doesn't matter or take away from the feeling so I guess it's not too bad. However, such shortcomings will be completely gone for the third album, it will be the first total winner of an album in my opinion!

On Rage again, I'm surprised even their detractors can dislike an album like Welcome to the Other Side...this is seriously awesome; I always forget how fucking good it is when I'm not in the mood for their other albums. Easily their most inspired, most epic and well done album, and the only one that doesn't feel too long of the later-day ones...though Soundchaser comes close.

I only heard one Rage album in full - Secrets in a Weird World or whatever (they're wearing sunglasses on the cover art). Everything wasn't so bad, except the vocals. Man, now those were terrible.

@RR: Frankly, dude, you're a goddamn perfectionist (I can relate, definitely). It's not unusual for you to almost beat yourself up in advance over how "sloppy" or "lame" something you recorded is, but more often than not, when I listen to the recording in question I'm like "okay, so it's not perfect". It's probably most true regarding drum parts, unsurprisingly: your drumming is ace, but in your heart of hearts, you'll only be truly satisfied with it when Jörg Michael himself calls a press conference over it and states "okay, I give up. Teach me, Master!"

@Empy: Fine, I'll give 'Welcome to the Other Side' another try when I get the chance. 'Soundchaser', I'd rather not, unless you can confirm beforehand that the track you linked to a page or two ago, and the one I linked to in my tantrum post soon thereafter are not representative of its overall style (I loathe that style). Tell failsafe not to worry, I'll take a chill pill before that listening session.

@OzzyApu: I've noticed our opinions rarely seem to converge. This is one of those times, though. High five, my fellow croaking-intolerant man!

Ozzy, you'd probably like some stuff from Trapped! onwards, as previously mentioned Peavy changed his vocal style. It's hard to imagine a fan of Running Wild and Grave Digger not liking that stuff, although, anything's possible as LegendMaker has shown us. I dunno, though, wild-shrieking vocals are all fine by me. I mean, Raven kick arse and the vocals fit... so what's the problem. Which reminds me that my Rock Until You Drop LP needs another spin.

I might have to give Welcome to the Other Side a try soon. I've liked pretty much all the Rage stuff I've sampled from up to Soundchaser (after that it sounds like their stuff got a little ropey). I was actually surprised that I enjoyed their symphonic stuff, too, because that's normally the sort of stuff that would turn me right off.

I was listening to the post-Brian Ross Satan stuff last night, again. I think that it really kicks arse, even if it's not quite at the same level as Court in the Act.

Haha yeah I know, it's a bit stupid but seriously, when I recorded the first album I was in good shape: I practiced drums every day. Then I quit music school so I had no way to do that anymore, which made me drum maybe once a month, max. And then I recorded the second album, and I really thought I was doing great, but when listening afterwards you could hear I haven't touched drums for a few months before recording. Especially the slow parts is off...
But now I can hear I'm at least more aware of it, so I really try hard to make the parts right and fuck, it sounds good too!

I always admire your perfection Rollas, it can only lead to greater things.

@RR: That song you released a few months back is one of the best things I've heard in metal in the past couple of years, head and shoulders over RW as far as I'm concerned, so I'm sure whatever you put out will kick some ass if it sounds anything like that.

LegendMaker, yeah, I dunno if you'll like WttOS that much, but it's worth a try. Songs like "Mirror in Your Eyes," "I'm Crucified" and the epic "Leave It All Behind" are probably some of my favorites by them ever.

Acrobat, if you liked Black in Mind you'll dig this one as it is kind of like the sound they were going for all along with that one and End of All Days. Unfortunately there aren't any Lovecraftian themes on this one, but it's still really good and has great songs throughout. I think there's only one I don't care for, which, despite loving their style, is unusual for me with Rage.

Another big RR fan here. I'll listen to anything you put out and most likely enjoy it a lot

I'll try it. I'm starting with the WTTOS, Soundchaser, Unity trilogy since I remember someone some time ago saying that those three albums were the band's peak. We'll see if that's true.
If I end up liking the material above, then you're on your own again. I haven't noticed your opinions so I can't make any claim that they're very different.

That was me who said that. I would like to revisit some of their 90s stuff though, been years really.

On another note I checked out a few Desolation Angels songs the other day on Youtube and liked them. The riffs were pretty solid, Sabbathy rocking sludge and the vocals were cool gritty 80s style stuff...pretty sweet. I'll have to check out their compilation album thing.

They are a fucking awesome band! That first record is gold, like a speedier Sabbath!

I've been doing my best to spread the good word on 'em. I got Jeremy/Count_V to order the debut through SKR...which is now sold out. I'm surprised how quick that happened I guess everyone was waiting on it so as to avoid the pricey boxset.

I think FSM said it in his review but they write repetitive songs, except they also write riffs that demand repeating. I love Evil Possessor and Valhalla the most right now.

Deso Angels have some good stuff, but aside from their first full length they're pretty inconsistent. Their best few songs are:

1) Fury
2) Evil Possessor
3) Spirit of the Deep
4) Valhalla
5) Killer

The 4CD set isn't that great though. Just get the first full-length and download Fury and Killer and you've got pretty much everything you need.

I've been listening to them on YouTube this past week thanks to you, they're really good. I love the unintentional riffing which you talked about. They've got this really earthy, analog sound, too.

Since this is the recommendation forum, can someone suggest some bands in the vein of Desolation Angels? They remind me of 70s Judas Priest and the first couple Manilla Road albums, and I adore that kind of stuff. There was a thread on proto-heavy metal last month, which is essentially what I'm asking for, but it was for the 1960s. I don't mind when it's from, though I favour the analog sound of the 80s.

This is a really, REALLY tenuous suggestion, but have you ever checked out Heavy Load? They're another band that sound like they sort of made heavy metal by mistake. The catch is they're pretty much awful, but in the weirdest endearing way. I'm mostly referring to the debut here, as it's the only one I've heard.

Be prepared for just the worst vocals ever. Though if I'm not mistaken he improved tremendously by the second album.

Guys, I'm looking for anything along the lines of Pharaoh's Be Gone. Something catchy, fantastic in the lead guitar department and with some damn passionate vocals. Alternatively, any "modern" (2000's onwards) power metal.

I think most here know what I'm talking about when I say Pharaoh, but either way, I'm talking about songs like Speak To Me, Dark New Life and Telepath.

I'm sure they were very aware of that they made metal, with songs like Heavy Metal Angels In Metal And Leather
They were pretty fun, I like a few songs... But they don't have the epic feel that you could think they have by looking at their covers, it's a bit more rocking stuff really. I always assumed they would sound like Battle Hymns but they are pretty far from it

Been on a diet of Helstar and King Diamond lately.
What are everyone's favorite King D tales?
The man makes fine concept records and the tales are quite engrossing. Abigail is my favorite but I have also enjoyed Them and The Graveyard immensely. Abigail is a fine classic with truly creepy overtones that no band could have pulled off so efficiently. The opening of "A Mansion In Darkness" and the ending of "The Family Ghost" send fucking chills down my spine.

The story, for those who don't know, is about a couple, Miriam and Jonathan who move into a mansion that Jonathan inherited. All manner of things then begin happening. There are the horsemen who warn Jonathan about the house albeit cryptically and the family ghost, a Count whose ancient tragedy still haunts him. Abigail was a stillborn child who is about to be reborn through Miriam and Jonathan must prevent this.

A fucking awesome horror tale and told through wonderful music!

I'm checking out the sequel next!

Tsk, tsk, tsk, Jonpo... Ragne's vocals did improve considerably after the debut, but they were already great on the debut: rocking, varied and some of it arguably the harshest around at the time. He was sloppy and off-key half the time, sure, but that's part of the charm, really. After the debut, his brother/drummer also shared vocal duties with him, singing every other song with his bassier, warmer timber throughout the rest of the band's career. In fact, the last two full-lengths have some great clean lead and backing vocals.

The Heavy Load brothers were genuinely awesome visionaries, especially considering their debut. About two thirds of it are sloppy and dark and epic and somewhat punk-ish and fucking menacing heavy metal, with a massive and massively over-the-top atmosphere, and they were doing all that way before it was cool (1978!). Sort of Venom meets Manilla Road, except before either band came to be.

True, RR, they kept a hard/heavy side all along, with some rock 'n' roll for good measure, but they also kept and evolved their epic side, and a number of songs on 'Metal Conquest' and especially 'Death or Glory' I consider very early epic heavy/power, starting on that path at around the same time or even before Virgin Steele, Manowar and Manilla Road. I'll always have a soft spot for that band. 'Stronger Than Evil' was a bit weaker and less inspired, but I hope someday I'll get the chance to give their 1987 unreleased album a try.

"Abigail" and its sequel are my favorite tales but "Them" is just as good and that video for "Welcome Home" rules!

"The Puppet Master" is a great story too with the usual King ingredients of absolute horror, betrayal and tragedy. Set in Budapest, by the way! How creepy!
Here's King narrating the tale and cackling like a depressed witch at the end;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMV7AGSXwA

Looking for power metal similar to Riot 'Thundersteel' and Tony Martin Black Sabbath...any suggestions?

Check out Shok Paris.

On the subject of King Diamond horror stories, I'd say that my favorite one is the aforementioned The Puppet Master (plus, I really like the album itself). Very gruesome, disturbing, and visceral, but with an edge of sadness and melancholy. In fact, I believe it's not unlike something that Clive Barker would write.

You know what? It'd be awesome if more heavy metal bands wrote conceptual albums built around spooky tales. As shown by KD, if done well, it can lead to very satisfying results.

I know, right? I'm also super gay for Abigail, especially "Black Horsemen," which contains my favorite solo of all time (the outro). The story in that album is just classic, too. Someone (competent) should adapt it into either a movie or a short series.