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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:38 am 
 

Yeah they could be more involving, true enough. Could have more intricate riffs and leads. Have you heard their Black Halo material? Songs like "When the Lights Are Down" and "Moonlight" have some awesome guitarwork in the template of their sound.

Personally though I guess I just don't care if the guitars are playing simpler rhythms or chugging chords, so long as the actual songwriting it is wrapped around is complex and entertaining.
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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:08 am 
 

Of course, the Black Halo is my favourite Kamelot album.
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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
Posts: 429
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:24 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Personally though I guess I just don't care if the guitars are playing simpler rhythms or chugging chords, so long as the actual songwriting it is wrapped around is complex and entertaining.


The riffage is a big part of "the actual songwriting" in metal music.
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Jophelerx
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:22 pm
Posts: 706
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:16 pm 
 

Haven't heard the new Kamelot yet but it's not exactly high up on my list, as I didn't get any enjoyment out of GO or PftP. Epica is definitely my favorite, although TBH and Karma are both solid. Does the new one sound anything like the Karma/Epica/TBH era?

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ShadeOfDarkness
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 356
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:43 pm 
 

Dandelo wrote:
Have you heard of Rebellion? It was formed by some ex-members of Gravedigger. I haven't listened to their new album yet, but Miklagard was an excellent album. Full of hooks and simple but effective riffing, tells an interesting story (vikings trying to make their way to the Miklagard). Arise is worth your time as well, but not as great as Miklagard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb9frGEEoro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5raXwnhUGs

I tend to think the vocalist is a better version of Boltendahl. Plus you have those fantastic guitar solos from Lulis (who is not in the band anymore sadly).

Edit - Beated, ah well, great minds think alike! I've been listening to Solar Fragment's In our Hands and that sounds a bit like early Iron Savior to me in places (especially the second track). Maybe that would do you dude?

Damn, I forgot to list Rebellion. Thing is with them though; I like some of the stuff, but often I feel their songs never go anywhere. Either they just stay mid-paced, and never speed up, or there's something else that throws me off. I also can't say that I'm all for Michael's vocals. I've always preferred Boltendahl.

However, Solar Fragment I have not heard of before. So this will be quite interesting! Thanks for the rec!

If anyone sees that I'm really missing out on some other great bands in this genre, don't hesitate to tell me.

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ShadeOfDarkness
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 356
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:47 pm 
 

Jophelerx wrote:
Haven't heard the new Kamelot yet but it's not exactly high up on my list, as I didn't get any enjoyment out of GO or PftP. Epica is definitely my favorite, although TBH and Karma are both solid. Does the new one sound anything like the Karma/Epica/TBH era?

I was listening to it here the other day, and I can't say that it does. The new guy sounds like a slightly younger Roy Khan, but the music is pretty much in the same vein as GO and PFTP. So that was pretty dissapointing.

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SolstafirAquilaria
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:40 am
Posts: 214
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:10 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
Anyone want to talk about Deep Switch? I just got the SKR 2disc re-issue of their lone album this weekend and I have to say it smashed my expectations. All you ever read about it is how fucking weird it is and I was still surprised by how damn weird it is. Still, the best songs (Pigfeeder!, The Poisoned Lake, The Dark Angel) have this almost accidentally sinister feel. I love the vocals and can definitely see where they were a huge influence on Simon from The Lamp of Thoth. Riffing is top notch as far as I can tell, and runs the gamut with all sorts of styles and flavors. A lot to take in and I can't wait to get more time with it.

edit: Speaking of their weirdness, the chorus to Time Machine reminds me so much of Gabriel-era Genesis.

Deep Switch are pretty cool. The album isn't entirely consistent, but it's a fun listen for sure. The influence on Simon is definitely noticeable, yeah. I read someone somewhere mention how Infernal Machine from the upcoming Arkham Witch album sounds just a bit like Pigfeeder, and well, I can see what they meant.

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Jonpo
Hypercolombowler

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:05 am
Posts: 4496
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:15 pm 
 

I'm completely mesmerized by the album at this point, I even like the damn ballad! It actually makes me laugh how serious the ballad sounds compared to everything else on the album, like they said "Okay mates enough fucking about, we're going to take this one seriously!" and then proceeded to snigger to themselves.

I feel like this is an album I've always wanted but never quite knew how to articulate. It's off-kilter and quirky, chock full of great old school heavy metal riffs, with super theatrical vocals and presentation...and just a bit of weird sleaziness to cap it all off.
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SolstafirAquilaria
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:40 am
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:25 pm 
 

I know, that fucking ballad is so out of place and cheesy, but I still love it ahahaha. Exactly what you said.

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Jonpo
Hypercolombowler

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:05 am
Posts: 4496
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:33 pm 
 

Man, I appreciate that link but I'm trying to keep myself pure for Simon Strange! I'm going to order the CD as soon as its available through SKR, samples be damned.
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SolstafirAquilaria
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:40 am
Posts: 214
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:59 pm 
 

haha, sorry :P Tim posted that he should be getting them in next week.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:23 pm 
 

The new Kamelot is essentially a return to the Black Halo/Epica days. The music is more adventurous, the songwriting has more atmosphere in it and is overall more complex and satisfying in the long run.
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:15 pm 
 

I don't think there exists a Kamelot album without a mountain of atmosphere. :V
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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:23 am 
 

So I asked Satan's Host where the new album was, and apparently it's "on delay". They said they'd have news soon, though.
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Xeogred
Thunderbolt from Hell

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:28 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:50 am 
 

As long as they're not on Jag Panzer time.

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I_Am_Vengeance
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:11 pm
Posts: 1668
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:31 am 
 

Nice, saves me from having to do it :lol:

Wonder what caused the delays, label shite probably.
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I_Am_Vengeance
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:11 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:33 am 
 

Xeogred wrote:
As long as they're not on Jag Panzer time.


I was listening to the debut and I got a really cool idea for a custom title, So i went to Hellblazer and was like, hey man can you give me a custom title of "A Thunderbolt from hell" and then I realized that you already had it, ya bastard.
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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:44 am 
 

That's good to hear man. The uncertainty was killing me.
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 6590
Location: Fortress Northallerton, North Yorkshire/ Varese, Padania
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:58 am 
 

Jonpo wrote:
Anyone want to talk about Deep Switch? I just got the SKR 2disc re-issue of their lone album this weekend and I have to say it smashed my expectations. All you ever read about it is how fucking weird it is and I was still surprised by how damn weird it is. Still, the best songs (Pigfeeder!, The Poisoned Lake, The Dark Angel) have this almost accidentally sinister feel. I love the vocals and can definitely see where they were a huge influence on Simon from The Lamp of Thoth. Riffing is top notch as far as I can tell, and runs the gamut with all sorts of styles and flavors. A lot to take in and I can't wait to get more time with it.


I had a copy, I've no idea where it's got to, though. They're alright, I'd say. Probably more quirky than they are actually good (often times it comes across as a less metallic Bad News :P). It's certainly unique and rather amusing, but I can't say it's a classic or anything.

OI!

It's really bugging me where the CD is, though.
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Jonpo
Hypercolombowler

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:05 am
Posts: 4496
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:06 pm 
 

I fucking HATE when that happens. Especially when I know I've put the disc in the wrong case but I don't have any idea which.

When you find it you should give it another couple spins and see how you feel about it. I really think it's a complete work of genius. The Poisoned Lake and The Dark Angel have so many different riffs and ideas that really get me going. The title track is also masterfully done. Reverend Nice does his best to imitate Sherman and Denner trading off solos on that one, and he comes pretty damn close.
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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:06 pm
Posts: 3839
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:00 am 
 

writing an article on speed metal. Skipping Motorhead/Venom/Judas Priest/etc. Starting with Acid and Raven in 1982, Exciter and Metallica (I think Kill 'em All is close enough) in 1983...

anything I'm missing from the early '80s? Once it gets to '84 and '85 I'll have a lot more options.
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Xeogred
Thunderbolt from Hell

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 6350
Location: Valhalla
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:12 am 
 

Satan.

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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:06 pm
Posts: 3839
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:23 am 
 

whoops, yeah, I've got Satan covered.

I'm thinking maybe Slayer's Show No Mercy. The vocals are a bit gruff and it has some thrashier undertones but man it's still fairly speed metal sounding.

Is Griffin's Flight speed metally enough? Grave Digger's debut? Definitely doing Running Wild's debut (and probably a couple others). Matakopas probably is, yeah? This is hard. :(

I don't seem to have much for 1984 or 1986. LOTS for 1985. 1988 was a badass fucking year. I think I'll add Sodom's Obsessed by Cruelty to 1986. Close enough. I'm doing quite a few "power/speed," "heavy/speed," "black/speed" etc albums.
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ShadeOfDarkness
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 356
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:48 am 
 

This might be stretching the line to the absolute fullest, but how about some of those early Saxon albums? I haven't listened as much to these as I should, but I had a feeling those could maybe work.

Oh, and Rage's debut, when they were still known as Avenger should be one that you could mention.

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Rocka_Rollas
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:08 am
Posts: 795
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:25 pm 
 

Can't go wrong with Riots Thundersteel :D

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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 9793
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:06 pm 
 

Thank you hells_unicorn and empyreal for your Messiah's Kiss reviews. This band is fantastic. Nice riff-heavy power metal. Sounds just like they carried the torch from Running Wild!
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Xlxlx
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:28 pm 
 

Running Wild, and Rage, and Grave Digger..... Really, they're like each and every single good attribute German speed/power metal has rolled into one single band. I mean it.
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Lightsbane
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:17 am
Posts: 232
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:11 am 
 

I'm looking for some power metal with Halford/Ripper style highs and black/death screams and regular singing. I don't exactly know how to describe it or if such a thing exists but something along the lines of Painmuseum meets Iced Earth.

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SleightOfVickonomy
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 330
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:54 am 
 

Helstar's last two records "The King Of Hell" and "Glory Of Chaos" are what you need.
Here are some links;
Angels Fall To Hell;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv8NVJoYuBM
Monarch of Bloodshed;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBJf0iuTMuI
Tormentor;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fynz_GGKNW4
No growling, but plenty of screams!

Persuader is another awesome band you should check out;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmsCj9YF6XE

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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 6590
Location: Fortress Northallerton, North Yorkshire/ Varese, Padania
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:34 pm 
 

Lightsbane wrote:
I'm looking for some power metal with Halford/Ripper style highs and black/death screams and regular singing. I don't exactly know how to describe it or if such a thing exists but something along the lines of Painmuseum meets Iced Earth.


The last Satan's Host album would probably fit the bill.
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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
Posts: 429
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:03 pm 
 

Lightsbane wrote:
I'm looking for some power metal with Halford/Ripper style highs and black/death screams and regular singing. I don't exactly know how to describe it or if such a thing exists but something along the lines of Painmuseum meets Iced Earth.


I think CAGE did this on some of their recent albums.

Some of the stuff on our upcoming album fits the bill here too.

Good call on the last HELSTAR album.

What about INTO ETERNITY's recent stuff? Not exactly power metal but fits the bill with regards to the vocals.
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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 891
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:13 pm 
 

Lightsbane wrote:
I'm looking for some power metal with Halford/Ripper style highs and black/death screams and regular singing. I don't exactly know how to describe it or if such a thing exists but something along the lines of Painmuseum meets Iced Earth.


You might want to check out John K. He's been in multiple projects, none of which particularly appeal to me but the dude displays an incredible range and variety.

Here's a link to a song he did while he was with Balance of Power where he displays his melodic high range in the vein of guys like Geoff Tate.

And here is a song from his really weird personal project, Biomechanical. Some kind of industrial thrash that doesn't work for me but holy shit! He often alternates between high pitch screaming (think Halford on Painkiller) and a harsh voice more reminiscent of groove metal singers like Anselmo and Rob Flynn.

There's a lot of studio magic and I'd be curious to hear him live but this is nonetheless pretty impressive as far as alternating between singing styles.
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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:06 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:16 pm 
 

Slander's Careless Talk Costs Lives doesn't get enough recognition.
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MetalHearted
Metalhead

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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:09 pm 
 

This is a kind of vague request but i'm looking for power/progressive/whatever metal with beautiful melodic vocals like Kamelot and Pagan's Mind. Even mixed with harsh melodeath type vocals would be good, just as long as there are some beautiful vocals there. It would be great if it wasn't super duper cheesy and more along the lines of majestic! thanks in advance :)
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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:50 pm 
 

Nahsil wrote:
Slander's Careless Talk Costs Lives doesn't get enough recognition.

It's fairly decent heavy metal, but also pretty forgettable. Though from the 90s, stylistically they're basically NWOBHM with a lot of rock; it's a style that needs strong hooks, and they just can't come up with them consistently enough. The riffs are a strong point but the vocals and vocal melodies in general are definitely weak, which really brings the whole thing down considering how much emphasis is on the vocals in the songwriting. The riffs that accompany the vocals are generally very simple and in the background, but when the vocals drop out and let the guitars do their thang it gets a lot better. NWOBHM obviously isn't known for its highly skilled singers, but Slander's guy isn't so much unskilled as just really bland and uninteresting.

So yeah, they really don't deserve much more attention than they get, which is none.
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ShadeOfDarkness
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 356
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:20 am 
 

MetalHearted wrote:
This is a kind of vague request but i'm looking for power/progressive/whatever metal with beautiful melodic vocals like Kamelot and Pagan's Mind. Even mixed with harsh melodeath type vocals would be good, just as long as there are some beautiful vocals there. It would be great if it wasn't super duper cheesy and more along the lines of majestic! thanks in advance :)

I'm not sure, but you might want to check out bands like Voyager, Anubis Gate, and Threshold. I think that would fit your style, kinda. And I believe there should be some other bands in this style if you look at the Similar Artist pages for those bands right there. Hope that helps! :)

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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:06 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:52 am 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Nahsil wrote:
Slander's Careless Talk Costs Lives doesn't get enough recognition.

It's fairly decent heavy metal, but also pretty forgettable. Though from the 90s, stylistically they're basically NWOBHM with a lot of rock; it's a style that needs strong hooks, and they just can't come up with them consistently enough. The riffs are a strong point but the vocals and vocal melodies in general are definitely weak, which really brings the whole thing down considering how much emphasis is on the vocals in the songwriting. The riffs that accompany the vocals are generally very simple and in the background, but when they vocals drop out and let the guitars do their thang it gets a lot better. NWOBHM obviously isn't known for its highly skilled singers, but Slander's guy isn't so much unskilled as just really bland and uninteresting.

So yeah, they really don't deserve much more attention than they get, which is none.


Songs like "Lonely Nights," "No Road Back," "In Your World," and "Passion Crimes" have great vocal hooks, no idea what you're talking about! I've actually had "I can't stand these lonely nights / I just wish my life away" stuck in my head recently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOhG4kQr4wU

No way this is forgettable. A bit by-the-numbers on paper, but the execution is solid.

no road back to the dreams you left behind / we may not like what we might find / to the seasons of the past / say farewell to them at last.
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Jophelerx
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:22 pm
Posts: 706
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:21 pm 
 

Thanks for the mention Nahsil, I actually hadn't heard that one before. While I agree with fsm that the vocal lines are less than stellar, the riffs are enough to make up for it...hot damn! Sounds almost like Grim Reaper meets Crystal Logic...cool stuff indeed.

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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:35 pm 
 

Nahsil wrote:
Songs like "Lonely Nights," "No Road Back," "In Your World," and "Passion Crimes" have great vocal hooks, no idea what you're talking about! I've actually had "I can't stand these lonely nights / I just wish my life away" stuck in my head recently.

I never said Slander had no strong hooks, just that they couldn't come up with them consistently enough. You listed four songs. The album is twelve songs long. "No Road Back" is a pretty darn good track, I'll agree, but the majority really aren't. Heavy metal gots to have hooks!
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Jophelerx
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:22 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:34 pm 
 

In Nahsil's defense, that Neptune track is pretty terrible.

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