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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:42 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Dunno about that... taste does evolve but I don't think mine is too confusing. I just don't like the 'only the old stuff is real, only traditional power metal tropes are real' type of mindset.

Rosenthorn wrote:
I think that Vulvagun doesn't necessarily fit well into the traditional metal mold you guys are expecting... Their riffs aren't necessarily focused to the forefront in the way many traditional metal bands' are. Rather, they focus on creating an atmosphere, and the riffing is in support of the atmosphere. That atmosphere tends to more often than not also differ from trad metal, it's a very somber, almost doomy feel. All that being said, I don't see how anyone couldn't like the chorus to "Old Creeping Jesus," that shit ticks all the right boxes.


Man I didn't listen to it, tab it out, analyze the chords and structure, and think to myself "this doesn't fit my ideology at all!" :lol: I just listened to it and thought "wow, this sucks."

I actually listened to it again just now and changed my mind somewhat - the chorus is pretty decent, but I still really hate the verses. That kind of semi-amelodic syncopated riffing is tough to get right, and when a band gets it right (see: Conception) it's usually because they have a strong groove. In other words, if the melody is jarring and amelodic, make the rhythm gripping to the ear. I just don't get enough of that throughout the Vulvagun song. Or maybe I'm not enjoying it for some completely different reason, who knows? Any kind of analysis like this is just an after-the-fact attempt to explain a gut reaction. And my gut said "no thank you."
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:15 pm 
 

I wasn't referring to you when I said that about the 'only old school' mindset - actually it was more about power metal fans who can't stand anything that deviates from the Keepers-era Helloween or early Edguy type stuff. People in this thread just know what they like and stick to it a lot of the time so eh, cool for them and all. It wasn't meant as a dig at anyone though.

I agree with Rosenthorn though, they're very different in a way - they're all about the mood, atmosphere and the slow building songs. Same reason I like Tad Morose. Just foreboding, dark and eerie melodies, simple riffs but complex songwriting and powerful vocal work. I like Conception, too, but this is a different itch scratched for my musical taste.
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Norrmania
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:42 am
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:43 am 
 

Jophelerx wrote:
I dunno, I mean we're still less than halfway through the year. Mark Shelton certainly seems to pretty active, the new Hellwell is streaming on YouTube in its entirety and I'd say it rips pretty hard. I do often end up changing some of the nuances in my opinions on Manilla Road/Shelton stuff, but at this point I think I'd say I like it a bit more than BtBoS. "It's Alive" and "The Galaxy Being" especially goddamn kill it. Still to come this year also are the album from Riddlemaster (Shelton's project with Rick Fisher - according to Rick probably going to come out sometime in June), as well as the newest actual Manilla Road album. Shelton is a goddamn monster to be this busy at 60. And if even if not everything he puts out is gold, you're guaranteed at least a couple of great tracks per album.

Also I haven't checked that new Trial stuff yet but I will soon, their previous output has been pretty cool, if something I only go back to occasionally because it's pretty tough for me to digest. Definitely doesn't seem like this year is slowing things down much in quality output from the last few years to me though, I mean 2011-2013 was especially hot but 2014-present seems to be roughly the same amount of good shit, not tons and tons but better than what we were getting from the 1999-2009 era, trad/USPM certainly isn't dead.


Just to clarify I wasn't getting all doom and gloom saying there's not gonna be any good releases this year in metal or in heavy/power stuff. I've already heard a few albums that I like so far this year. I should have been more specific but I mainly had the two albums I mentioned in the thread in mind. I've been seeing those two talked about different places around the metal section as highly recommended and after sampling them didn't quite get why they were generating so much interest. That's all really.

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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:07 pm 
 

Omfg, Sacred Blade you guys! At first I was really taken aback how similar it was to Othyrworld but a few curveballs broke across the plate, specifically Salem (holy shit!) and Master of the Sun (holy SHIT!). Both full of youthful piss and vinegar. Obviously I get why Salem didn't make the cut for Othyrworld but damn is it a killer. Those King-esque wails are spot-on. Master of the Sun actually FITS the theme and has probably the most relentless energy of the whole album.

I didn't realize Ethereal Skyline was not part of the original Of the Sun + Moon. One of my favorite songs from Beyond into the Night of Day. RIP to Jeff Ulmer the motherfucking Pilot. He got it.
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:18 pm 
 

Call me crazy, but my favorite track on that Othyrworld album has to be ''Moon''. Such an incredible ending track and perhaps the best instrumental song I've heard so far.

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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:19 pm 
 

Not crazy at all! They were masters of those instrumental moody tracks. It's so hard to keep those from being a chore and theirs are a treasure.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:11 pm 
 

Just FYI the demos are pretty awesome, too. Plenty of good material that never made it onto either full-length.

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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:27 pm 
 

Aw man the whole thing is on YT? Playing right now. I was looking at their page earlier, wondering where "Alien" came from because I was mistakenly expecting it to be included on Sun + Moon. Surprised High Roller or Buried by Time and Dust haven't reissued all the demos in a super lush package.

Really special band. I'm off work tomorrow so I plan on getting a little day-drunk and jamming Full Moon and Sacred Blade all fucking day.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:51 pm 
 

Probably part of the problem is tracking down who owns the rights, who's got the original masters, whether or not the original masters even exist, etc. I would fucking LOVE a comprehensive demo comp, though. Sacred Blade/Othyrworld are definitely one of my all-time favorites.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:23 pm 
 

Man, Ulmer was still selling that shit off his own personal website right up to the end. He strikes me as the type of dude who would have had pristine copies of all demos tucked away in a vault somewhere. Obviously with him passing things get a touch more difficult...

Right there with you, pimpin'. I've loved Othyrworld for years and always felt like Sacred Blade would hit even harder. Wasn't wrong!
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The Crazy Old School Music Fan
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:12 pm 
 

I would like to know of any modern bands (modern as in 2010 or later) that are similar in style to the following bands/albums.:
Queensryche - particularly the first EP and first two albums
Fates Warning - 80s and early 90s era (meaning, up to Parallels)
Crimson Glory - first two albums
W.A.S.P. - first album
Helloween - Walls/Keeper era
Chastain - 80s era
Heir Apparent - first album
Savatage - up to and including Hall of the Mountain King
Lethal - Programmed-era

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:27 am 
 

Jonpo wrote:
Man, Ulmer was still selling that shit off his own personal website right up to the end. He strikes me as the type of dude who would have had pristine copies of all demos tucked away in a vault somewhere. Obviously with him passing things get a touch more difficult...

Right there with you, pimpin'. I've loved Othyrworld for years and always felt like Sacred Blade would hit even harder. Wasn't wrong!

Sacred Blade is cool but I definitely prefer Othyrworld, it's much more polished/coherent. I have both albums though, because SAAAAAAAAAAALEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEM
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:44 am 
 

The Crazy Old School Music Fan wrote:
I would like to know of any modern bands (modern as in 2010 or later) that are similar in style to the following bands/albums.:
Queensryche - particularly the first EP and first two albums
Fates Warning - 80s and early 90s era (meaning, up to Parallels)
Crimson Glory - first two albums
W.A.S.P. - first album
Helloween - Walls/Keeper era
Chastain - 80s era
Heir Apparent - first album
Savatage - up to and including Hall of the Mountain King
Lethal - Programmed-era


Eternal Champion's debut probably has a lot of what you want. Rad album, too.

What do you lot make of Savage Grace's second album? I think I like it more than the first; more polished, but it sounds like an army storming into battle. We won't be bound to any law that fear makes us obey!! :metal:
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Jophelerx
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:22 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:10 pm 
 

The Crazy Old School Music Fan wrote:
I would like to know of any modern bands (modern as in 2010 or later) that are similar in style to the following bands/albums.:
Queensryche - particularly the first EP and first two albums
Fates Warning - 80s and early 90s era (meaning, up to Parallels)
Crimson Glory - first two albums
W.A.S.P. - first album
Helloween - Walls/Keeper era
Chastain - 80s era
Heir Apparent - first album
Savatage - up to and including Hall of the Mountain King
Lethal - Programmed-era


Crusader's Onward into Battle definitely has some Chastain and Savatage vibes, highly recommended.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:57 pm 
 

After the Fall From Grace is really good. It's so strange to me that their bad ass guitarist was also an undercover killer voice that whole time. They switched things up to a more USPM sound on that album and I'm not mad about that one bit. Could never say I love it more than Master of Disguise though. A bit apples/oranges but that one is tied with Skeptic's Apocalypse for the greatest speed metal album of all time. I can hardly believe how great it is.

Full Moon rules. It was everything I hoped for. Total outsider weirdo shit. I can't believe anyone wanted to sound like this in 1989, it's comforting. Legend (UK) with more heavy-handed prog sections isn't a bad reference point for anyone who hasn't heard it.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:32 pm 
 

Dude I know, I have to double-check the date every time I hear that record, even though I know full well when it was recorded. I swear the songs were written way earlier, but the band only got around to recording them years later. "Euphoric Dance" has one of the most epic slow-burn build-ups in all of metal, maybe THE most.

Just FYI, the second LP and live album are pretty lame. Some of the demos are OK but nothing really worth writing about. I spent a lot of time and effort tracking them down years back, and it all turned out to be quite disappointing. While I hoped for more, it's mostly what I expected - the s/t is such an oddity, so caught out of time, and came from a country that by the late 80s had almost no love for metal left in it, that there's just no way lightning could've struck twice. At heart Full Moon seem to have always been a prog/space rock band, who for whatever reason got heavy for just that one album.

Most of it is now available on their official youtube channel, if you're curious. I gotta say that the image they uploaded for "Euphoric Dance" is PERFECT.

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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:53 pm 
 

Yeah Full Moon's debut is amazing, I was really enchanted with it for several months last year which culminated in my finally reviewing. Agreed on their "other stuff is meh," sentiment, the second album is lame for sure. Can't remember if I've actually checked out their demos though. Time Machine, Highlander, Euphoric Dance, Blur on the Horizon, Beltaine fires...all 10/10 stuff (most of the album, haha). And it's got such a different feeling from other metal albums, so laid back and kind of groovy, closest thing I can think of to it is Mark of the Beast from MR, and Ritual's Widow does also kind of evoke a similar feeling, although less spacey. Also, never really been a fan of Legend UK, but it's been awhile since I checked them out, so I guess I'll do so again since they've been compared to such a cool album.

EDIT: Jonpo: you did mean the more well-known Legend UK and not this one, right? Just want to be clear.

EDIT 2: Okay I checked out Death in the Nursery again and it was a lot cooler than I remembered it being and does bear some similarities to Full Moon, rad.
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KaiKasparek wrote:
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:27 pm 
 

Death in the Nursery is one of my favorite things! Similarly misty and unique, although obviously worlds apart on the subject matter.

I'll have to sample Euphoria. I really wanted to love it. Super beautiful cover.
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Nahsil
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:13 am 
 

I'm late but Othyrworld is completely mindblowing, there's nothing else like it.

I'm looking for beefy riffing with an intricate aspect to it, kinda like some of Manticora's material. Any ideas?
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:59 am 
 

It's never too late to weigh in on Othyrworld/Sacred Blade! This is the type of shit that doesn't get discussed enough imo. I love these completely unique outsider bands that manage to be quirky as fuck without sacrificing riffage. Jeff Ulmer was a rare breed. How many heavy metal musicians come back and recorded an arguably BETTER version of stuff they did in the 80s? Othyrworld/Sacred Blade, Brocas Helm and....? It's a short list.

Still can't get over Track of Doom. It's like finding an album you've always been waiting for but didn't realize. A lot of reference points to Omen (US). Completely over the top muscle, intricate song-writing and relentless melodicism. The vocalist rules too. Heavyweight Warrior, When Giants Collide, and Finally Out are life-affirming. The whole album is.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:44 pm 
 

Get Warrior of the World already, you giant hipster!
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:53 pm 
 

I found a beautiful copy today I'm just waiting for payday to pull the trigger. I don't see any way it can eclipse the debut but there's a hanging canopy of greatness beneath that ceiling. Every time I play it I love it a little more and believe it a little less.
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:19 am 
 

It's not as balls-to-the-wall fast & raw, but it's a little more developed and mature. Two sides of the same coin.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:01 am 
 

Yeah man, I'm really excited to hear them after a bit of development. The debut, despite being fast & raw, still seems really well put together to me. It seems like they really took their time with the arrangements. So the idea of them pushing that even further is probably going to be really cool. I'm 100% sure I'll love it, I'm just excited to see how much. Gutterscream seems to prefer it to the debut, and it seems like you feel the same way?
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:38 pm 
 

Yeah according to the liner notes, the lead guitarist was studying classical music at university, which informed his more complex arrangements. I like that he was able to incorporate that knowledge into raw heavy metal without going all Yngwie with it.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:05 pm 
 

Oh shit! That's very cool and I'd go so far as to say extremely rare. Usually once a regular ol' killer guitar player becomes trained in the classical ways he can't be part of an album without his name being on the front with an apostrophe s before the actual band name. Fuck that nonsense.

(Yngwie did all his best work with Alcatrazzzzzzzzzzzz. Marching Out is cool though.)
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MammothRider
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:25 pm 
 

So I've been listening to Cauldron Born a tonne recently, and damn, what a fantastic fucking band. The debut is an outstanding landmark of USPM, but I've been drawn more to the Sword and Sorcery Heavy Metal EP: specifically Crom Count the Dead. This track is fucking phenomenal. The main riff, and the choruses that accompany them, are some of the catchiest I've ever heard. The vocals, while not quite as good as the debut, are perfectly suited to the rest of the material. I cannot get enough of this band.
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YevX
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:13 am 
 

What about a band or album like Blind Guardian's Tales From The Twilight World?
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:05 am 
 

Cauldron Born are special. The first album still gets me the most but I love everything he's released. Crom, Count the Dead is a fucking rad song! It takes so much talent to stretch a Conan-themed song to that length but he makes it fun as hell. I really like Howie's vocals on there too. Not as classically talented as other voices they've had but it fits that barbarian/scald vibe just right I think. The debut is my favorite just because it's more Clark Ashton Smith than Robert Howard if you know what I mean.

Have you heard Matthias Steele's Haunting Tales of a Warriors Past? It's the closest thing I've ever heard to Cauldron Born. Insane muscular, complex, nerdy, with one of the coolest fucking vocalists ever.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:34 pm 
 

I sang on Crom except for over the clean guitar part where Howie sang the first 3 lines.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:20 pm 
 

Oh yeah sorry. All that but him instead.
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Metallic Shock
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:15 am 
 

YevX wrote:
What about a band or album like Blind Guardian's Tales From The Twilight World?

I haven't listened to them too much but as far as I've gathered Savage Circus is the go to example of this. Same drummer and Jens Carlsson sounds pretty much exactly like Hansi on it but there's a general lack of the extravagant layering of later BG from what I remember.
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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:04 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
Oh yeah sorry. All that but him instead.


Oh, it's no problem. I just wanted to clarify in case there was any confusion. Howie and I are both credited with vocals on that track. I saw on another message board someone said they like the vocals on the new songs except for "Howie's vocals" on Crom. I think they were confused there, Howie sang only briefly.

Howie's pretty much the best metal songwriter around IMHO. Even though I was given free reign, I tried to stay as close to his guide vocals as I could because they were awesome melodies.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:05 pm 
 

MammothRider wrote:
So I've been listening to Cauldron Born a tonne recently, and damn, what a fantastic fucking band. The debut is an outstanding landmark of USPM, but I've been drawn more to the Sword and Sorcery Heavy Metal EP: specifically Crom Count the Dead. This track is fucking phenomenal. The main riff, and the choruses that accompany them, are some of the catchiest I've ever heard. The vocals, while not quite as good as the debut, are perfectly suited to the rest of the material. I cannot get enough of this band.


Thank you very much! It was an honor for me when Howie gave me the opportunity to record with him. I was (and still am) a huge Cauldron Born fan.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:33 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
Jonpo wrote:
Oh yeah sorry. All that but him instead.


Oh, it's no problem. I just wanted to clarify in case there was any confusion. Howie and I are both credited with vocals on that track. I saw on another message board someone said they like the vocals on the new songs except for "Howie's vocals" on Crom. I think they were confused there, Howie sang only briefly.

Howie's pretty much the best metal songwriter around IMHO. Even though I was given free reign, I tried to stay as close to his guide vocals as I could because they were awesome melodies.


Nah I appreciate you correcting me. I just feel bad because I think maybe this is the third or fourth time you've done so? No idea why I cannot commit that to memory. Your voice was awesome for Crom, Count the Dead. Don't know if you read any Fafhrd & Gray Mouser but it reminded me of the way they describe Fafhrd's voice (he's a massive barbarian) as being higher pitch than you'd expect to look at him, but extremely pleasing. That scald quality!

I have to agree wholeheartedly on Howie being one of, if not THE, premier living writer of heavy metal tunes. Crom, Count the Dead would have fallen flat in the hands of most artists. So many ideas packed into one song. It just works though, the whole way. I can't wait to hear something longer.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:04 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
Nah I appreciate you correcting me. I just feel bad because I think maybe this is the third or fourth time you've done so? No idea why I cannot commit that to memory. Your voice was awesome for Crom, Count the Dead. Don't know if you read any Fafhrd & Gray Mouser but it reminded me of the way they describe Fafhrd's voice (he's a massive barbarian) as being higher pitch than you'd expect to look at him, but extremely pleasing. That scald quality!

I have to agree wholeheartedly on Howie being one of, if not THE, premier living writer of heavy metal tunes. Crom, Count the Dead would have fallen flat in the hands of most artists. So many ideas packed into one song. It just works though, the whole way. I can't wait to hear something longer.


Thanks for the kind words.

Howie's given me permission to play "Temple of Abomination" live with my band at times so we will be doing that at least once at some point. Giving all credit to Howie of course.
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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11852
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:19 pm 
 

Tell him to fuckin get cracking on new Briton Rites, new Cauldron Born, new SOMETHING. I'm not sure he realizes how legendary he is in certain occult metal circles. I was very satisfied with the comeback EP, but it left me wanting MORE, MORE, MORE
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 35289
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:26 am 
 

This new supergroup Walpyrgus is pretty great - members from Twisted Tower Dire, While Heaven Wept, Widow and a band called Daylight Dies. Sounds awesome to me... just volleying, charging heavy fucking metal with energy and style.

https://soundcloud.com/cruzdelsurmusic/ ... summerwind

Quote:
We’ve all heard the stories of legendary antics and debauchery backstage at Metal concerts – and while that is exciting to read or gossip about, very often there’s another conversation that happens back there, on the tour bus, or at a local backyard BBQ party over some beers – while you’re hanging out with fellow musicians you respect, blasting a classic Maiden, Lizzy, or Priest album – it’s almost inevitable that someone says “we should jam together sometime” and while this may be well-intentioned or naively inspired, it seldom comes to fruition. WALPYRGUS is an exception.
When these veterans of Twisted Tower Dire, While Heaven Wept, Daylight Dies, and Viper (amongst a long list of many others) broached this subject, it actually came to fruition with a very real mutual ambition and respect for both each others’ talents and the musical influences that made them who they are.
When you hear those passages recalling the aforementioned Maiden, Lizzy, Priest, Fate, etc…it’s truly coming from the hearts of musicians who have been performing this kind of music their entire lives.
The eponymous demo-turned-EP confirmed that these guys were serious but was really only a litmus test merely hinting at what was to come; their debut album “Walpyrgus Nights” represents the full realization of the potential of this dangerous meeting of Metal minds. Hook after hook, cascading guitar harmonies, anthemic soaring vocals, epic unexpected twists and turns abound, this 8 song opus is truly a genuinely inspired, wild, and I daresay fun ride through the annals of classic Hard Rock and early Metal with a distinct personality.
This effort gradually matured over a span of no less than five years and recorded in a variety of locations over the course of two intense years under the guidance of Tom Phillips (While Heaven Wept mastermind) was mixed by longtime collaborator Kevin “131” Gutierrez (Raven, Deceased, Believer) and features the artwork of Gustavo Sazes (Morbid Angel, Arch Enemy, Firewind).
So when the when the stars are right and you’re alone, take a journey, lock the world tight and prepare yourself for the tales of demons, spectres, and witches rising on Walpyrgus Nights!
“Walpyrgus Nights” will be released on compact disc, vinyl (featuring a 56-page comic book with lyrics!) and digital on June 9, 2017.
PRE-ORDER HERE: http://tinyurl.com/k8llrcz
Tracklist:
1. The Dead Of Night
2. Somewhere Under Summerwind
3. Dead Girls
4. Lauralone
5. Palmystry
6. She Lives
7. Light Of A Torch
8. Walpyrgus Nights

Musicians:
Jonny Aune – Vocals
Scott Waldrop – Guitars
Charley Shakelford – Guitars
Jim Hunter – Bass
Peter Lemieux – Drums
Tom Phillips – Keyboards, Guitars
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Opus
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 4291
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:44 pm 
 

So... Twisted Tower Dire's new line up?
Not that I'm complaining I love TTD and WHW, but why the need to have a new band for each new song?
Will be buying this.
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Oblarg
Veteran

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 2974
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:47 pm 
 

Ugh, this suffers from the same problem as recent TTD. Where's the edge? It's, like, heavy metal with a pop-punk mentality.
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