Maybe overrated wasn't a good choice of a word. Funny thing is that the same happens to me with Gamma Ray. Most people consider 'Land of the Free' as their best album, again, i fucking love that album but to me 'Somewhere Out In Space' has more 'better crafted' songs (except Lost in the Future).

But aren't you using "better crafted songs" as a synonym for "I prefer Beyond the Black Hole over Man on a Mission" (for example)? That's my objection. The songs on Land of the Free are beautifully crafted and you know most people think it's their best, so... I don't see how you can justify that Shine On is better than Rebellion in Dreamland, especially in terms of mastery of the craft of songwriting.

I love SOIS too but it sounds more digital or modern if you prefer than LOTF and I prefer the analogue, warm, oldschool but powerful sound of the latter. It is also the first Gamma Ray album that marked the end of variety in their songwriting. Like, "aaah, LOTF sold significantly more, this is the way to go", you can tell they just settled for the typical europower sound, less fire if you will in their inspiration. And they kept so much on that sound (LOTF meets Painkiller basically, with some classic metal riffs from Priest, Maiden or Sabbath here and there) that they have become almost a parody of the genre.

For the record, Lost in the Future was one of my favorite songs, first because I think it's a very fun, groovy piece and secondly because it was the only thing (along with The Landing) on the album that was not typical. I love typical too (if it's a great song) but I was used to my Gamma Ray being the epitome of the no-limits in the songwriting (based on their first 3 albums), so their total conformity to europower "rules" didn't sit well with me, not the same band. And since I've already said so much about GR, I might as well add that the new musicians on SOIS (Dan and Henjo) were not worthy successors to Uwe Wessel, Matthias Burchardt, Uli Kusch and Thomas Nack (esp. these two drummers) or Jan Rubach, who was a cool songwriter unlike Henjo who only writes cliche europower tunes.

You like the heavier sound? The heavier songwriting perhaps? Those are all very valid reasons. But please, don't say "better crafted"... Say that to distinguish between old Sodom and Persecution Mania Sodom for example. Or something.

Am I making any sense here? Or am I completely alone in this objection to the choice of words?

Aight, i'll try and make it simple.

'Somewhere Out In Space' has two songs that could be better or removed all along. "Lost in the Future" and "Pray".

'Land of The Free' has "Afterlife", "Gods of Deliverance", "Salvation's Calling" and probably "All of the Damned". These 4 songs to me have nice riffs and ideas but they aren't well put together, not to mention the weak or silly choruses.

Now, the rest of the songs on both albums i consider flawless and they are all Gamma Ray classics.

So in conclusion, "Somewhere Out In Space" has more good songs than "Land of the Free", and that is pretty much why i like it a bit more.

It was simple from the start mate (in my head at least!)

For the record: Afterlife and All of the Damned are definitely in the top 5 (along with Rebellion, Abyss and Mission...), God of Deliverance is awesome with that raging verse with the excellent vocal lines and Salvation's Calling is a 8/10 song. Worst song on the album, by far too is Farewell. I actually prefer Pray over it. On the opposite side, I gladly skip Winged Horse, I think Guardians of Mankind's chorus is too cheesy and Pray is too. Man, Martians and Machine's chorus is completely boring and overall the album doesn't blow your mind as much as LOTF does.

In conclusion, LOTF has one mediocre song (Farewell), while SOIS has more. Therefore LOTF > SOIS and I love the taste of fried snails.

I'm not surprised by anything you said here apart from not being able to hear much Rush in the album. Again, I heard it once so I might have missed something. As a tremendous Helstar fan, I would've noticed if there had been a lot of similar riffing. They have a distinct style.

And Never, Neverland is one of the best metal albums of 1990. And far better than most any thrash in the last 20 years.

Honestly, they always reminded way more of post-reunion Agent Steel (think Order of the Illuminati) than Helstar.

I love how Kai pays tribute to (rips off) 'Jawbreaker' on certain part of 'Men Martians and Machines'.

I don't think any of the big German bands have ever been shy about their influences from Judas Priest. I mean it's quite obvious in tons of Gamma Ray and Iron Savior but hey, they're still not Primal Fear. Yikes...

I recall hating Annihilator haha, maybe I'm mixing them up with someone else. My thrash tastes have always been different than the norm though. I still pretty much hate Metallica and while I like some Megadeth more, I never ever bother listening to them when I can listen to far better things. Heathen, Whiplash, Overkill, Artillery, and Flotsam and Jetsam were my gateway to thrash. Heathen are about the only exception to the Bay Area-esque sound that I actually enjoy, otherwise I don't think I care that much for that kind of stuff and like bands that play a bit more speed/power.

I love both LOTF and SOIS and I've got to say, I think SOIS is the slightly better album, mainly due to how each album flows. LOTF has more standout songs (Rebellion in Dreamland, Title Track, Man on a Mission) but the rest of the songs melt together for me. I think the way the songs are placed in SOIS give them more purpose in the overall context of the album, for instance Beyond the Black Hole opens the album at a fast pace to carry us through the more melodic and less memorable songs that follow, which then set the stage for the sweeping majesty of the title track, whereas Rebellion in Dreamland and Man on a Mission just make the next couple of songs feel disappointing. I also think the little minute long songs between songs in LOTF contribute to the overall feel that the songs blur into each other, whereas the ones in SOIS all serve a pretty distinct purpose or disrupt the flow of the music long enough for the listener to distinguish them as separate piece of music. Last thing to note: Farewell is a fucking terrible ballad (except for the Hansi appearance) whereas Pray is merely a really bad one.

Regarding German power metal: thoughts on Heavens Gate? Been checking them out lately. Not crazy about them but they're alright. Their speedier tunes kill though.

I should really check out more power/thrash metal. Been digging Assalant's The Damage is Done again lately which sounds quite a bit like Helstar. Also been enjoying Forté's Dementia by Design lately which is pretty crazy top notch power/thrash. Talking about a never-ending riff madness.

Power/thrash has some cool stuff to offer. That's exactly what I would call everything recorded under the "Pariah" band name. Hearing those guys go from unbelievably perfect trad/nwobhm with Satan to the intense power/thrash they started playing as Pariah is a really fun journey. The Kindred is a great place to start if you haven't heard them. Blaze of Obscurity has a bit "better" production if that's your thing.

I'm also way into The Awakening by Powerlord. It's so fucking muscular that it sounds ignorant.

German speed metal is an interesting thing to me. I love early Running Wild and I haven't met a Living Death album that I disliked yet. But I also don't think any of that stuff can hold a candle to the best speed metal that America was producing. Your Savage Graces and your Agent Steels. I think it has to do with their influence and evolution. The best American stuff seems far more influenced by Maiden's debut. They took that insanely nimble playing and spruced it up with their own brand of muscle. Most of the German stuff I've heard seems far less agile. Waaaaay more influenced by Accept (This is not a bad thing).]

P.S. God damn Dark Quarterer's debut is so great.

I wish Kai had made 'Fairytale' a full song. Gives me blue balls every time i listen it.

And that's why I prefer German power metal. The Accept factor. Things are grittier, mid tempo, catchy, chorus centric. Even with the high Judas Priest influence on Gamma Ray and Primal Fear. Priest also plays it pretty simple and you can hear how they influenced Accept themselves. You gotta keep it simple and straight forward. I can hear way too many bands that took Iron Maiden's 'big ideas' and tried to do it themselves.

They focus on the instrumentation and arrangements and desire to compose 'epic songs' rather than sticking to the gut punch of hard rock and heavy metal. Very few are good enough to make it listenable. Maiden somehow got a pass but you don't really hear those lofty ambitions in most teutonic metal.

Fairytale for me is the epilogue of Man on a Mission and if I didn't consider it as such, it would make my top 3. Utterly FANTASTIC. I've already said that All of the Damned is one of the best songs on the album but I could see how Rising of the Damned might be skippable, although I think it makes a wonderful contrast to the drum intro of Gods of Deliverance. Really not feeling the argument about the songs blurring into each other, never heard it before either.

I think the album is set up beautifully, with the best bits wisely dispersed, with Time Breaks Free between two of the most sombre songs to heighten the contrast and generally speaking I find the songwriting in LOTF considerably more special than the songwriting on SOIS. Not to say that it doesn't have some great stuff too.


Bit harsh on both of them but yeah. As for Hansi's appearance that is the most disappointing thing of the album. I mean you can just about hear him in the chorus of Land of the Free (not as much as you on Grave Digger's Rebellion though) but you have Hansi at the top of his game and you give him that lame part? After he's given you the part in Valhalla and Lost in the Twilight Hall? FOR SHAME KAI!

Great band, quality and class. They were never the band that would fucking blow your brains out but they have an air of authenticity and class. My favorites being Livin' in Hysteria (Gate of Heaven!) and Planet E (the s/t and I just love that Sparks cover). Rettke is a brilliant vocalist.



You should check out Stranger than Fiction, their debut, featuring James Randel, the vocalist from Oliver Magnum (which is another awesome album btw, even better tbh). I haven't heard their in between albums but I did listen to 2012's Unholy War and it made my top 20, very cool power/thrash.

I always thought part of its charm lay in the production. Listening to it now, I get an utterly ancient vibe especially from 'Colossus Of Argil'. I intensely dislike the updated version they made in 2012. Some of the truly idiosyncratic moments the original offers are thoroughly watered down.

You couldn't pay me to listen to a re-recorded version of that album. There is so much magic in that anti-production. It BURNS to the touch! I think that's part of the reason The Etruscan Prophecy never moved me as much.

I will also say that the lead work is on the same level as any of my personal guitar gods, from Shelton to Fogle.

Dark Quarterer has never really moved me like some similar bands like Fates Warning, Adramelch, etc - that general obscure epic metal type stuff. I've heard the debut and their most recent one, and while I like them both, it never goes beyond 'yeah, this is weird and kind of cool' into 'this really affects me' or something.

They are far more based in 70s hard rock than most of those bands, I think. You're never going to hear any riffing madness from them the same way you would from Fates Warning. The appeal of Dark Quarterer's debut, for me, is rooted in how ancient and singular it sounds.

I love a bunch of 70s style stuff these days, too, which is the thing. I do like DQ and I wouldn't bash em or anything, but I guess they just never fully clicked with me beyond being a very interesting band.

H-Bomb's To Feel Is Pain EP is good, but I really wish David Potter would have stuck with something closer to his approach on the first Cloven Hoof album, which is one of my absolute favorites.

I've still never heard it. I was definitely crushed when FSM told me he thought their material with Dave Potter kinda...sucks. In my mind the legendary vocalist from Cloven Hoof teaming up with the French savages who recorded Coup de Metal could only be a wonderful union....apparently not.

Coup de Metal rules though!

I love this outro track. Love it.

Land of the Free and Somewhere Out in Space are tied for me. They both have amazing tracks and absolutely crap ones. Great albums though, despite that. I think the sheer volume of songs on them is a detriment to the albums. The band should have exercised a bit more restraint and quality control in that regard.

I should maybe check out the latest one. To The Metal was fucking shite and a huge disappointment.

Yeah, I dunno. It obviously can't stand up to the amazing Coup de Metal, but it's decent. Even when he's seemingly trying to sound like someone else, David Potter certainly has character.

Seriously? For me, this is one of the most affecting metal songs ever written:



Even the Engrish lyrics work. "Let the evil be my food" is so nonsensical it becomes poetic.



It's a huge, huge warning sign when a French 80s band (or any band from a scene that records primarily in their own language) switches to English, and it's an even bigger warning sign when they replace a native singer with one from an English-speaking country. See: Loudness.

I also finally got around to the full-length today, which is pretty damned good. On first listen, Double Bang is definitely my favorite.

I think I'm about ready to eat crow on Nosferatu you guys. It got ahold of me last night. The fifth track is still annoying as fuck to me and I think it kinda kills my listening momentum but once that's over it's clear sailing and sunny skies again. Well I mean, if clear sailing and sunny skies means blisteringly sharp riffs and macabre vocals.

Well, apart from the fact that I love Perseverance and Desperation (CORBIIIIN!!! That part with the acoustic guitar and the neo-classical shredding gets me all the time) I am very happy to see another person receiving the illumination that is the greatness of Nosferatu.

"Blisteringly sharp riffs" Oh, yes indeed!

They went all in on the dogshit shred track. I'll give them that. I've played the album three times today and it sandbags the momentum everytime. There's even a drum solo. Yikes.

But uh yeah. Everything else is fantastic.

Nosferatu is the one I can always listen to. Even though Rivera kind of has a weird monotonous style going on, the whole thing is consistently incredible. For whatever reason I switch moods between Remnants and Distant Thunder though, I'm usually only in the mood for one of them at a time and the other won't work at all. Very strange, but I ultimately love them both. Their first four albums are quite different, yet nobody else really sounds like them so there's not a lot of comparisons that could be made.

Don't skimp out on The James Rivera Legacy with that Vigilante material, since it's very much in the same vein as Nosferatu.

Keep away from Multiples of Black though.

DEEP! IN THE ANGRY CITY! THE HATRED STARTS TO WAKE!

Every so often I throw that song on just so I can burst out laughing at how inept the whole thing is.

Drum solos are pretty much always a terrible idea. The only time they're appropriate (if at all) is when you're seeing some giant band headlining a huge live setting. I saw Anvil at Keep it True, and it was really irritating because there are a lot of bands and everything is timed out pretty precisely. Instead of playing, I dunno, a minor song like FORGED IN FUCKING FIRE, they skipped it in favor of a fucking boring guitar solo and an even more boring drum solo. In a two-hour set, OK, but 50 minutes fuck off.

Also, have you heard Spell yet? For None and All is total Jonpo metal. Arcane eldritch weird shit like Borrowed Time. Not quite as good as BT, but they have the benefit of being, y'know, still around and putting out material.

Nope not yet! I kind of have to now I guess. I was always curious about their debut but never got around to it. The cover art, name, runtime, all that really spoke to me.

I don't expect myself to ever like the vocals on Nosferatu. The guitar playing is immense on it, but Rivera sounds half dead on it.

I think he sounds macabre and villainous. I haven't heard him on anything but this and the debut. He sounds mature and controlled on Nosferatu. I assumed for the concept he was trying to be more arch.

It'd be better with black metal vocals, for sure.

Hopefully that's a joke.

For years I've felt his delivery was pretty weird on it, but I can't really picture it any other way. That said I certainly like what he does more on some other albums... Destiny's End comes to mind. Hell, maybe they're overtaking my love of Helstar after all these years! For early Helstar though in evaluating Rivera, I probably like him most on A Distant Thunder for the most part. "Winds of War" alone shows off his high tier USPM style skills.

I didn't care for the vocals on Nosferatu either at first, but yeah, he seems to be trying to sound dead and morbid on purpose. It's effective for that style.

The opening riff on 'Baptized In Blood' is one of heavy metal's highlights.

The first two songs are so good it's almost in danger of Painkiller-disease. Luckily they continue to kill it for two more tracks.