Am I really the only person who thinks Savage Circus is pretty much worthless?

I'm not a big fan of doom, but I wish there was more stuff like Solitude Aeturnus' "Beyond the Crimson Horizon". Although that album has doomy elements, "Awaken the Guardian" is an obvious influence there.

They don't do too much for me. They're more tolerable to me than Persuader though.

I think most of Gamma Ray's discography is fantastic, minus the Ralf Scheepers stuff. I think Majestic is a great album, but it seems a lot of you guys don't agree.....

Persuader rules so much harder than SC for me.

Listening to the first track on youtube... and this sounds really awesome, whoa. Wow, they have a lot of albums too. What's all their stuff like?

EDIT: This is exactly what I wanted dude. I have no idea how I've missed these guys. "It Came Upon One Night" is incredible.


I'd agree, but mostly because to me it seems like they were painfully pulling from Imaginations BG, which you guys probably know by now... I'm not a fan of heh, totally a world of difference between that and SFB to me. Comparisons aside though yeah, I never listen to Savage Circus.

Could check out While Heaven Wept's Vast Oceans Lachrymose album, if you're unaware of it. It's pretty cool - they used to be a doom metal band, but they switched up their style to some sort of epic progressive heavy metal mish-mash and I see people say there's a decent Awaken The Guardian element to it.

While Heaven Wept - The Furthest Shore

From my point of view, they are as uninteresting as they are unoriginal. Persuader do much more for me when it comes to Blind Guardian worship.

I haven't listened to it in years, but I remember it being really poppy and annoying.

I do like Persuader more than Savage Circus, but come on, yo. Songs like "Of Doom and Death," "Empire," and "Legend of Leto II" are great stuff.

oh fuck, I just listened to the fourteen minute closing track and that seemed pretty damn good from initial listen.

My organism is programmed to reject shamelessly unoriginal bands such as Savage Circus and Thulcandra, so yeah.

We have really different definitions of great then...I think those are all pretty weak to be honest.

I don't see the new Savage Messiah record talked about much. I just finished my first listen,and I've got to say it was pretty epic.

I've never gotten into Savage Circus, but I think Persuader isn't bad.

I acquired all of Solitude Aeturnus's studio albums a few years back in a lot with some other CDs. I've listened to the first two once or twice, and I've listened to some tracks from a couple of the later albums. I'll have go back and put more time in with that band (it was actually a track off Adagio that made be interested in the band).

I think I'm going to love a lot of Solitude Aeturnus, if they're anything like their first two albums.

White Ship is one of my favorites so far. Dark, heavy, and chunky as hell with just the right speed. The vocalist is awesome too, not sure if I've heard any of Candlemass with him though. Candlemass is one of my exceptions to doom, but I can almost already tell I'm going to like Solitude Aeturnus even more.

Wow, really? You've always been the compendium of metal knowledge -- I'm amazed you haven't heard Solitude Aeturnus. They fall into the "epic doom" category, although I'd say that they have two phases. Their first two albums are very Fates Warning influenced, but with doomy elements. Everything after that is straight doom, albeit with longer song lengths and with a soaring vocal style, thus "epic". I only like their first two albums myself.

BTW, speaking of Fates Warning, I've tried really hard to enjoy "Night on Brocken" and "Spectre Within", and while I don't think they're bad albums, they don't speak to me. Alas, Fates Warning for me is a one-album wonder, although "Awaken The Guardian" is easily within my top five favorites.

"White Ship" has always been one of my favourites, as well. The main verse riff in "The Hourglass" was actually inspired by Carcass, if you can believe that (that's what it says in the Metal Mind reissue booklet I have). I should probably warn you about the Metal Mind reissue digipaks if you're thinking of buying them. I don't know how Metal Mind's other releases are, but I have the first two SA albums reissued on Metal Mind, and the discs aren't really held in the container at all. The booklets aren't bad, but the discs aren't held in tightly in the least bit (and I prefer jewel cases over digipaks, anyway).

I was thinking of mentioning White Ship in particular since it's so speedy a lot of the time

Unfortunately, Robert Lowe in Candlemass sounds quite subdued and nowhere near that magical voice he has on those early Solitude Aeturnus albums. Shame, really. Death Magic Doom is still a solid album, though. That's the only one I've heard with him on it.

You don't like Spectre? Huh, that's weird - that one clicked for me way before Guardian did (though now I think I'd rank them about equal, perhaps a very slight edge to Guardian).

Not to mention their later albums are still really good. Sure, Parallels, Inside Out, Disconnected, A Pleasant Shade of Gray and FWX are far removed from their earlier days, but for what they are, they're damn fine albums.

A Pleasant Shade of Gray is one of my favorite progressive metal albums of all time. It's an album you really have to be in the proper mood to appreciate, but when it clicks, it's absolutely fucking brilliant. Parallels and Inside Out have really grown on me recently, as well - they're not masterpieces, but they're really solid, catchy prog rock/metal. Disconnected has one of FW's best songs ever (Still Remains) and some other solid tracks.

In fact, I'd say the only two albums from Fates' discography that I really don't care for are No Exit and FWX - neither are really terrible or anything, but the former is boring and the latter is just too modern and inconsistent (though some of the more atmospheric tracks are still quite good).

I like every Fates Warning album, but for some reason I seem to be in the minority. While the last 2 weren't as fantastic, they were still solid and enjoyable.

I'm trying to see how long I can go with only knowing the early Fates albums. Still only heard a song or two from the Alder era. They were alright I guess, not as good by far as the earlier stuff.

I'm looking for specific songs with that speed metal drum beat (the combo of fast double bass and snare) all throughout the song. Here are a couple examples that start at the time of the drum beat I'm talking about:

Accept - Fast as a Shark
Blind Guardian - Valhalla
Helloween - Heavy Metal is the Law
Riot - Thundersteel

Also, sorry if there's a name for this beat because I can't think of it at the moment. I have some of the obvious songs, such as the ones mentioned, but I can't get enough of it and would love some more. Full albums are good, too.

Lastly, I don't post on this forum often, so would typing up this same reply in the death and thrash metal rec topics be frowned upon? I've heard the same beat in a couple songs from the aforementioned genres which is why I ask.

Once you get past the fact that it's such a radical shift from their 80s material, their later era will grow on you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7qbBtXULOQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSaG6I6I3tE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZgNwTZ6rB0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwSft8zNaS0

Fates Warning were way more consistent in the 80's for sure. The 90s and 00's stuff has some potential but really suck as complete albums. ''Still Remains'' is excellent for example, but the rest of Disconnected ranges from decent at best to pretty annoying to listen to.

I'm not sure what I was expecting exactly, but Othyrworld fucking decimates it. The riffs sound old-school and awesome, but there's an air of experience to the whole thing...nothings out of place or feels forced.

A few parts remind me of Holocausts Covenant. That would be such a nerdy, fun show if they played together.

I could see you digging Alder FW, Emp. More than me probably, lol.

Othyrworld is insane, one of the best for sure.

Haha, I think the weirder thing is I don't think they're name dropped here much... unless they have been and I just shrugged them off because of the doom connection, the name does sound familiar. I've heard about half of both the first two albums and this is probably the best discovery of the year to me so far, damn where have I been on this! The FW influences are definitely there, even Rob sounds a little Arch-ish at times, but with a more frighteningly weird calm demeanor.

Definitely my kind of stuff. I wouldn't say they remind me of Tyrant sound wise, but in a sense they definitely took a spin on some genres here. Tyrant probably has a small hint of doom, but with more trad/USPM in the mix and a heavy dose of epic.

Heh, speaking of Tyrant, I just got the Too Late to Pray reissue. No, I mean the album put out by USPM band Cerebus a year before Tyrant's! It's actually quite awesome melodic power/speed stuff, lots of sped-up NWOBHM dual leads and falsetto vocals. Dig this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rj8DPNYy4A

It's half and half to me. I still think it's funny they're not from Germany though, lol.

I can definitely see that. Add in Opposite Earth and you're good to go.


I agree that the last couple have been solid. 'Disconnected' didn't convince me at the beginning, but from around the end of 'Pieces of Me' it got a fair bit stronger. 'So' is a pretty good song as well, to be fair, although it's surrounded by two songs which don't really seem that strong to me (I can imagine that 'One' would work quite well as a live song, but it seems weaker on record, and rather out-of-place given the predominant tone of this one.) FWX was generally good, although a couple of the heavier songs, such as 'Crawl' and 'Stranger', seemed quite weak, and 'Simple Human' didn't quite convince. However, the rest I listen to quite regularly, since there's some very strong stuff in there, such as 'River Wide, Ocean Deep', 'Left Here' and 'Wish.' Alder's vocals are also great, and seem better than they were on 'Disconnected', where they could occasionally sound a bit weaker than usual.

I don't think that either can necessarily challenge APSoG, although to be fair not many albums can. To be fair to FWX, I recall Alder having commented that one of their aims in making that album was to create some shorter, more live-performance-suited songs to make up for the longer songs on their other recent output, and as such it wasn't really attempting to create something of the scale of APSoG; what it tries to do, it generally does well, and in a sense it could be seen as an improved 'Parallels.'

The Fates albums which I don't listen to that much are probably NoB, No Exit, Parallels and Inside Out. 'Parallels' and 'Inside Out' definitely have some strong songs on them, such as 'Life in Still Water,' 'Island in the Stream,' 'Monument,' 'The Eleventh Hour,' etc., but overall don't seem that have as much depth as I would like, and are a bit simplistic. I generally feel like the stronger ideas behind those works were generally improved upon in APSoG. The beginning albums of each era, NoB and No Exit, are probably the only ones which I basically don't listen to at all, and seem a bit rough and unformed. Maybe I should like NoB a bit more, given that I do find 'Spectre' to be the stronger of the Arch-era albums, but it's never really clicked with me that much, and I've always grouped 'Spectre' more with AtG, in terms of ethos if nothing else.


Well, if we're talking about Fates Warning resemblance here, this is the song you're looking for. I'm not a huge fan of that album, but yeah, if you like Solitude Aeturnus and that kind of thing you should enjoy it.

Another band that lie around that region are Forsaken from Malta, who may be worth listening to, especially on 'Dominaeon.' They're pretty fast, and do sound as if they've had some influence from Solitude Aeturnus and the like (they even have a song called 'Obsidian Dreams'), though they're not derivative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWoLtJcEf-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcyDasI970I


They do seem to be mentioned quite regularly in threads about bands similar to Candlemass, epic doom, etc.


I never quite placed Empyreal as a USPM elitist.


For some reason they remind me quite strongly of the band Black Fate on their 'A Piece of Dream' release, although coming from a lot more of a Euro-power and Gothenburg-ish direction (or, well, whatever the equivalent of Gothenburg death metal is for prog). There seems to be some early-Fates influence there as well. Not quite my type of prog, but they're pretty solid for what they try to do.

I'm not, I just don't like Ray Alder.

Whenever you hit up their newer stuff again I'd recommend "Perfect Symmetry".

Obviously, hard to get around Alder though. Just about anyone is better.

I can't tell if I like this While Heaven Wept band or not...

Yeah Opposite Earth is great. Not quite Othyworld caliber, but most things aren't anyways.

np: Skelator - Death to All Nations

\m/

Have you listened to Cauldron Born's debut yet Emp?

THE BEST!

Cauldron Born, Arch Warning, and Enchanter... top dogs of white collar USPM in my book.

Oracle "As Darkness Reigns" is also the epitome of light blue USPM.

Opposite Earth is cool, I got Headspace last year and have enjoyed it quite a bit. Definitely in that same vein of unique progressive metal as Holocaust and Othyrworld. Put Martyr on that tour and you'd have a great set for sure.

You had me M-A'ing and googling "Arch Warning," before I finally realized.

Listening to this Enchanter. I apparently had it, but I'd never really given it a spin.

Yeah, that's the only album I have by them, unfortunately not on this computer though. Great stuff.

You know who else is good...Nightmare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy3R26mQifw

Killer atmospheric PM.

I don't think "Spectre Within" is bad by any means. It just never produced an "ZOMG! This is AMAZING!" reaction, whereas I still feel that way after years of listening to "Awaken the Guardian." I've gone back and revisited "Spectre", and I always end up tuning it out and focusing on something else. Believe me, I want to like all three because I like "Awaken" so much. I like it more than any individual Blind Guardian or Iron Maiden album, although they have to be my favorite bands just because they've produced the most albums that I like. There are too many one or two album wonders in metal for me Queensryche is another good example. Because I loved the EP and "The Warning", I tried to like "Operation Mindcrime", but quickly found myself listening only to "Eyes of a Stranger" and skipping everything up to that song.