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Conservationism
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Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:48 pm
Posts: 431
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:33 pm 
 

HellishHound wrote:
Black twilight Circle, a black metal collective similar to LLN based in southern california. Most if not all are hispanic, but they like to focus on their native blood. And I haven't heard of Ayasoltec but I'll give it a shot!


Thanks, I'll check them out. Here's Ayasoltec, ex-Masochism:

http://www.reverbnation.com/ayasoltec
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pastafarian
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Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:29 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:43 pm 
 

Conservationism wrote:
HellishHound wrote:
Black twilight Circle, a black metal collective similar to LLN based in southern california. Most if not all are hispanic, but they like to focus on their native blood. And I haven't heard of Ayasoltec but I'll give it a shot!


Thanks, I'll check them out. Here's Ayasoltec, ex-Masochism:

http://www.reverbnation.com/ayasoltec


i recommend Volahn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s29YH6cYzUM

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Conservationism
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:48 pm
Posts: 431
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:20 pm 
 

pastafarian wrote:


Now listening -- thanks for posting this :)
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Gatherum
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:49 am 
 

This may or may not have been true in the heyday of the genre, but I would seriously question what decade you live in if you're still associating musical quality with geography.

Honestly, I have always favoured the death metal spectrum over that of black metal, and, looking at my library, most of the bands that could be classified as black metal originate from Europe, or other places to the east of the Atlantic. However, I regard none of them as being greater than Agalloch, who hail from Portland. Granted, Agalloch was never a "pure" or "raw" black metal band (and, now that I look again, it turns out that I have no such acts) for any significant period of time, but the point stands, I think.

It's only one example, and wholly subjective, but I'm just sayin': we're long since past the days when black metal was exclusively a Scandinavian phenomenon. I will say, though, that I think that North American black metal bands have a greater aptitude with incorporating other elements into their formula, whereas Europeans favour the more traditional take. So, I guess it depends on what you're looking for.
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Agga40
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 12:32 am
Posts: 424
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:29 am 
 

AsinineUsername wrote:

Absu is massively overrated, btw.

So excellent flowing song structure, competent musicianship and interesting concepts lyrically are over rated. I know what you consider "quality" now I suppose. There is very little (if anything) that distinguishes Havohej from any other lofi talentless garbage black metal band from the Czech Republic (to pick a random country, any country will do ultimately). You thinking Havohej is good and calling Absu over rated is funny. Why, because they sold more than 500 copies of their albums?
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Agga40
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:31 am 
 

Veracs wrote:
^ I don't disagree. Absu are easily the best band out of the United States, there are no bands other than maybe GBK (a really distance second) who even come close to the band's songwriting, aggression, and artistic ability.

In total agreement here. GBK is pretty good, but far too sloppy to be considered int he same realm as Absu, but deserving of recognition no doubt. I have a soft spot in my heart for Bloodstorm too. To me its GBK 2A Bloodstorm 2B.
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John_Sunlight
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Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:39 pm 
 

Agga40 wrote:
AsinineUsername wrote:

Absu is massively overrated, btw.

So excellent flowing song structure, competent musicianship and interesting concepts lyrically are over rated. I know what you consider "quality" now I suppose. There is very little (if anything) that distinguishes Havohej from any other lofi talentless garbage black metal band from the Czech Republic (to pick a random country, any country will do ultimately). You thinking Havohej is good and calling Absu over rated is funny. Why, because they sold more than 500 copies of their albums?

Disregarding the idiotic accusations of being kvlt...

Absu in addition to whatever other qualities they have are lacking in proper black metal riffs. I'm open to a lot of different kinds of black metal, but without that, all those long flowing songs are so much amorphous fluff to me. It doesn't help that their production is criminally lacking in bite. I can't get into Absu as a BM band.
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Veracs
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:11 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:


Absu in addition to whatever other qualities they have are lacking in proper black metal riffs. I'm open to a lot of different kinds of black metal, but without that, all those long flowing songs are so much amorphous fluff to me. It doesn't help that their production is criminally lacking in bite. I can't get into Absu as a BM band.


Wrong as usual. Their demos are full of proper black metal riffs and even some of the material on The third storm is complete Bathory worship, whether or not you care for their higher production are songwriting is irrelevant, their material is black metal with a large amount of thrash influence.
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Malignanthrone wrote:

Thing is, Suicide Silence actually are more sonically massive than a good 95% of all the death metal bands in the Archives! Not metal, sure, but definitely a lot more brutal.

Under_Starmere wrote:
Manowar aren't the Kings of Metal. They're pretenders to a throne that doesn't exist.!

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Conservationism
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:48 pm
Posts: 431
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:14 pm 
 

Panflute wrote:
This applies to both older bands such as Judas Iscariot and Weakling, as to the newer "Cascadian" bands.


The newer style isn't even black metal. It sounds like Sonic Youth with aggression problems.

I have never been blown away by USBM as a whole. It just doesn't "get it."

While I respect Akhenaten, Judas Iscariot only did one EP that I liked and the rest was... outside looking in. Imitation of form, not of substance.

Weakling? Nice people, kind of an album out of place. Should have been power metal and used the melodic technique less.
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AsinineUsername
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Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:11 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:37 pm 
 

Agga40 wrote:
AsinineUsername wrote:

Absu is massively overrated, btw.

So excellent flowing song structure, competent musicianship and interesting concepts lyrically are over rated. I know what you consider "quality" now I suppose. There is very little (if anything) that distinguishes Havohej from any other lofi talentless garbage black metal band from the Czech Republic (to pick a random country, any country will do ultimately). You thinking Havohej is good and calling Absu over rated is funny. Why, because they sold more than 500 copies of their albums?



Oh fuck, here comes the Absu Dicklick Brigade. I forgot how fucking annoying Absu fans are. You've obviously only heard DTSOG, a pretty mediocre album. I'm not suprised you felatte them, what with your taste. You don't understand "atmosphere" in black metal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=znmi7spN_gg

Reminds me of Inquisition, which can only be good.

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Conservationism
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:48 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:52 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
Absu in addition to whatever other qualities they have are lacking in proper black metal riffs. I'm open to a lot of different kinds of black metal, but without that, all those long flowing songs are so much amorphous fluff to me. It doesn't help that their production is criminally lacking in bite. I can't get into Absu as a BM band.


They're not a BM band.

Their first album is death metal.

The rest are basically speed/power metal with black metal vocals.

Power metal is basically heavy metal with speed/death technique applied.

I don't think this in any way diminishes the greatness of their work up through Tara (after that, it's incoherent).

They acknowledge their biggest influence as Mercyful Fate, so I think Absu themselves would appreciate this analysis.
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AsinineUsername
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:09 pm 
 

Conservationism wrote:
John_Sunlight wrote:
Absu in addition to whatever other qualities they have are lacking in proper black metal riffs. I'm open to a lot of different kinds of black metal, but without that, all those long flowing songs are so much amorphous fluff to me. It doesn't help that their production is criminally lacking in bite. I can't get into Absu as a BM band.


They're not a BM band.

Their first album is death metal.

The rest are basically speed/power metal with black metal vocals.

Power metal is basically heavy metal with speed/death technique applied.

I don't think this in any way diminishes the greatness of their work up through Tara (after that, it's incoherent).

They acknowledge their biggest influence as Mercyful Fate, so I think Absu themselves would appreciate this analysis.


I think you mean thrash metal, bro.

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Veracs
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:02 pm 
 

Profanatica's entire career is nothing but awful musicianship and kvlt status over his lack of his musical skill. Ledney is a loser whose only claim to fame is his brief stint in Incantation, were it not for that fact his shitty material would be like most of the garbage in thos music 5th rate boring material clogging shelf space in distro warehouses/storage rooms.
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Malignanthrone wrote:

Thing is, Suicide Silence actually are more sonically massive than a good 95% of all the death metal bands in the Archives! Not metal, sure, but definitely a lot more brutal.

Under_Starmere wrote:
Manowar aren't the Kings of Metal. They're pretenders to a throne that doesn't exist.!

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:14 pm 
 

Conservationism wrote:
John_Sunlight wrote:
Absu in addition to whatever other qualities they have are lacking in proper black metal riffs. I'm open to a lot of different kinds of black metal, but without that, all those long flowing songs are so much amorphous fluff to me. It doesn't help that their production is criminally lacking in bite. I can't get into Absu as a BM band.


They're not a BM band.

Their first album is death metal.

The rest are basically speed/power metal with black metal vocals.

Power metal is basically heavy metal with speed/death technique applied.

I don't think this in any way diminishes the greatness of their work up through Tara (after that, it's incoherent).

They acknowledge their biggest influence as Mercyful Fate, so I think Absu themselves would appreciate this analysis.

Ah, good, then my analysis was basically correct. May give them a listen again sometime with the expectation of something more along the lines of what you have described. Might make more sense, then.
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Conservationism
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Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:48 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:29 pm 
 

Veracs wrote:
Profanatica's entire career is nothing but awful musicianship and kvlt status over his lack of his musical skill. Ledney is a loser whose only claim to fame is his brief stint in Incantation, were it not for that fact his shitty material would be like most of the garbage in thos music 5th rate boring material clogging shelf space in distro warehouses/storage rooms.


You forgot his time in Revenant as well, and his influence on Incantation's early material.

Further, he's a technically adept drummer. No one who has seen him live can doubt that!
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ThePoop
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:38 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:34 pm 
 

Veracs wrote:
Profanatica's entire career is nothing but awful musicianship and kvlt status over his lack of his musical skill. Ledney is a loser whose only claim to fame is his brief stint in Incantation, were it not for that fact his shitty material would be like most of the garbage in thos music 5th rate boring material clogging shelf space in distro warehouses/storage rooms.

You definitely aren't afraid to say some crazy things, I'll give you that.

AsinineUsername wrote:

Anywho, seriously underrated band right here:

Brown Jenkins - Dagonite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=LGZuRj4RqHw

Yes! Brown Jenkins is an excellent band.
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Last edited by ThePoop on Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Conservationism
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:35 pm 
 

Interestingly enough, that was the dominant opinion when Dethrone the Son of God first hit the stores.
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Back Stabbath
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:49 pm 
 

Conservationism wrote:
The newer style isn't even black metal. It sounds like Sonic Youth with aggression problems.


So following this logic, out of this "scene's" seeming primary influences Burzum and Drudkh which one is the Melvins and which one is Flipper?
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BlashyrkhMR101
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:45 am 
 

I'm from the US and I love Judas Iscariot and other "proper" black metal acts I enjoy them as well.

My issue with USBM are the people constantly trying to reinvent black metal. Deafheaven/Alcest concert one time and every chap in a flannel shirt was just trying to analyze Deafheavens absolutely fucking ridiculous show of riffs that consistently sounded like the last...trying to analyze this like its some sort of really intelligent jazz or classical. Of course the chicks with their eyes closed waving their hands around like some sort of magical dance didn't help either.

So I'll say the guys from Inquisition, GBK, Judas Iscariot, Havohej, Dominium are great. Theyre all just playing some black metal and it just sounds good. No frills shit. It becomes irritating when the pseudointellectuals come in and try to make some terrible magical black metal that sounds like some forest in Oregon.

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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:53 am 
 

AsinineUsername wrote:
Foulchrist wrote:
Ten reviews with an average of 90%, criminal.

Great band though.



Go ask your average BM fan about Necrovore and watch them scratch their heads.

So? Necrovore was a death metal band.
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pastafarian
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:55 am 
 

BlashyrkhMR101 wrote:
Of course the chicks with their eyes closed waving their hands around like some sort of magical dance didn't help either.


This actually happens?


fuck. :puke:

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TDD
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:36 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:01 am 
 

Agga40 wrote:
Veracs wrote:
^ I don't disagree. Absu are easily the best band out of the United States, there are no bands other than maybe GBK (a really distance second) who even come close to the band's songwriting, aggression, and artistic ability.

In total agreement here. GBK is pretty good, but far too sloppy to be considered int he same realm as Absu, but deserving of recognition no doubt. I have a soft spot in my heart for Bloodstorm too. To me its GBK 2A Bloodstorm 2B.


Nightbringer eat both bands without salt, on any given day, on any given artistic criterion. In fact, I honestly think Nightbringer are the best USBM band I have ever listened to, and I've listened to some in my many years into metal...

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Veracs
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:06 am 
 

Meh. Theyr'e ok but really fucking boring to listen too, at best a boring overlong Dso clone who when playing mid tempo are beyond tedious. They are like so many of the bands mentioned just one more newer band who wont be remembered in twenty years
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Malignanthrone wrote:

Thing is, Suicide Silence actually are more sonically massive than a good 95% of all the death metal bands in the Archives! Not metal, sure, but definitely a lot more brutal.

Under_Starmere wrote:
Manowar aren't the Kings of Metal. They're pretenders to a throne that doesn't exist.!

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Dmorpheus
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:20 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:08 am 
 

a lot of my favorite black metal bands are from the united states.... WITTR, Inquisition, Ash Borer, Xasthur, Judas Iscariot, One Master, Skeletonwitch, VHÖL. and I love Deafheaven, although Sunbather isn't really black metal (but that has nothing to do with whether or not it's a good record). I'm sick of bands who do anything remotely unorthodox or experimental getting labeled as "hipster bullshit"
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:58 am 
 

TDD wrote:
Agga40 wrote:
In total agreement here. GBK is pretty good, but far too sloppy to be considered int he same realm as Absu, but deserving of recognition no doubt. I have a soft spot in my heart for Bloodstorm too. To me its GBK 2A Bloodstorm 2B.


Nightbringer eat both bands without salt, on any given day, on any given artistic criterion. In fact, I honestly think Nightbringer are the best USBM band I have ever listened to, and I've listened to some in my many years into metal...

Nightbringer? That passionless, hollow idiocy? How can you prefer that to Grand Belial's Key, I wonder if you have even heard any.

Absu is also inferior to the aforementioned, still being good to decent. Like someone mentioned, it's not really black metal either. GBK's riffing doesn't always recall the staples of the genre either.
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Veracs
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:28 am 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:

Absu is also inferior to the aforementioned, still being good to decent. Like someone mentioned, it's not really black metal either. GBK's riffing doesn't always recall the staples of the genre either.


I expected better from you.
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Malignanthrone wrote:

Thing is, Suicide Silence actually are more sonically massive than a good 95% of all the death metal bands in the Archives! Not metal, sure, but definitely a lot more brutal.

Under_Starmere wrote:
Manowar aren't the Kings of Metal. They're pretenders to a throne that doesn't exist.!

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AsinineUsername
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Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:11 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:07 pm 
 

Back Stabbath wrote:
Conservationism wrote:
The newer style isn't even black metal. It sounds like Sonic Youth with aggression problems.


So following this logic, out of this "scene's" seeming primary influences Burzum and Drudkh which one is the Melvins and which one is Flipper?



I'd love to hear some No Wave+black metal fusion that isn't gimmicky bullshit.


Last edited by AsinineUsername on Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AsinineUsername
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:10 pm 
 

Conservationism wrote:
Veracs wrote:
Profanatica's entire career is nothing but awful musicianship and kvlt status over his lack of his musical skill. Ledney is a loser whose only claim to fame is his brief stint in Incantation, were it not for that fact his shitty material would be like most of the garbage in thos music 5th rate boring material clogging shelf space in distro warehouses/storage rooms.


You forgot his time in Revenant as well, and his influence on Incantation's early material.

Further, he's a technically adept drummer. No one who has seen him live can doubt that!



So many people with shit opinions. I assume these same people hate Beherit, since they play similar styles of BM (down tuned, slightly-punkish stuff).


Last edited by AsinineUsername on Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AsinineUsername
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:15 pm 
 

Great band though.[/quote]


Go ask your average BM fan about Necrovore and watch them scratch their heads.[/quote]
So? Necrovore was a death metal band.[/quote]

Primordial death/black metal. You probably think Venom played thrash or some shit.

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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:36 pm 
 

AsinineUsername wrote:
Quote:
So? Necrovore was a death metal band.


Primordial death/black metal. You probably think Venom played thrash or some shit.

Necrovore was a death metal band, and Venom isn't black metal either. They did influence black metal considerably; with Necrovore I wouldn't be able to say how substantial their influence was, as there were far more well-known bands playing in the style.

"Primordial death/black metal" is not a genre, anyhow.
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:41 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:

Absu is also inferior to the aforementioned, still being good to decent. Like someone mentioned, it's not really black metal either. GBK's riffing doesn't always recall the staples of the genre either.


What are the 'staples' of the genre? does every black metal band share the same kind of songwriting, production, riffing or vocals? The fact they have a lot or thrash into their music doesn't mean they don't play black metal at all.

GBK's riffing, just like Arghoslent, it's not the uber brutal downtuned kind of buzz, but they still play their own way of black and death metal respectively. If you can't hear black metal in GBK, then you are: a)clueless about black metal in general or b) know just too few bands which you can use as comparison.

Venom is first wave black metal and no one will change that fact. Venom is responsible for extreme metal in general, especially black metal. It's like saying that Celtic Frost had nothing to do with black metal either.

Veracs is delivering, as usual.
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:42 pm 
 

Goddamnit, Kveldulfr. Did you even try to read my post?

Firstly, in my opinion, the Venom albums that are considered first wave black metal are very dark thrash/speed metal, whose particular style influenced black metal considerably. However, If black metal had been developed from that sound alone, I guess Absu would count as black metal aswell, since it was essentially thrash/speed with certain different aesthetical choices. Absu's riffing styles shares fairly little with pure black metal, hence it's more helpful to tag it otherwise. Absu, just as venom, sounds something like an amalgamation of black metal and other things. Mostly thrash and speed metal for both of them, although Absu's style seems fairly unique to me.

What constitutes black metal was chiefly defined by the second wave Norwegian classics. Call Venom black metal if you want, but it was the second wave that genuinely started the movement known as black metal - to count Venom as black metal is to extend the definition of the genre similarly as extending death metal to mean early German thrash or Sepultura. If you can't find more parallels between, for example, second wave black metal albums from the Nordic countries than you can between those and Venom albums, I don't know what's wrong with you.

GBK plays black metal, but their riffing is quite original, and it has less confluence with Norwegian black metal of the mid and early 90s than many bands. I didn't say at any point that GBK weren't black metal. I also didn't really mean to say there was no black metal in Absu's style. Absu isn't predominantly black metal from what I've listened to it; GBK certainly is, but not to the extent as certain Darkthrone, Mayhem or Gorgoroth albums.
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AsinineUsername
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:48 pm 
 

Primordial death/black metal. You probably think Venom played thrash or some shit.[/quote]
Necrovore was a death metal band, and Venom isn't black metal either. They did influence black metal considerably; with Necrovore I wouldn't be able to say how substantial their influence was, as there were far more well-known bands playing in the style.

"Primordial death/black metal" is not a genre, anyhow.[/quote]


Pfft, this is what late-comers to the genre actually think.

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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:58 pm 
 

AsinineUsername wrote:

Pfft, this is what late-comers to the genre actually think.

Great argument.

Relatively speaking, I might be a late-comer, as black metal has existed since the mid 80s and I only discovered it in 2003, but I like to think I've built up some perspective on it.

It's not a genre. Death/black metal is a genre. Primordial can be used as as descriptor, although it sounds slightly pretentious - why not just 'early' - but not as a genre. There is no "primordial doom metal" even though no band has really written songs like Hand of Doom since 1970. Necrovore isn't really death/black metal, either.
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Posts: 101
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:08 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
AsinineUsername wrote:

Pfft, this is what late-comers to the genre actually think.

Great argument.

Relatively speaking, I might be a late-comer, as black metal has existed since the mid 80s and I only discovered it in 2003, but I like to think I've built up some perspective on it.

It's not a genre. Death/black metal is a genre. Primordial can be used as as descriptor, although it sounds slightly pretentious - why not just 'early' - but not as a genre. There is no "primordial doom metal" even though no band has really written songs like Hand of Doom since 1970. Necrovore isn't really death/black metal, either.


I meant "primordial" in the sense of Mercyful Fate being black metal, but not what people consider black metal today. At one time thrash/death/black metal wasn't quite so clearly delineated, so people trying to say what was considered black metal isn't really black metal sounds like revisionist bullshit to me.

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Kveldulfr
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 2447
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:19 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
Goddamnit, Kveldulfr. Did you even try to read my post?

Firstly, in my opinion, the Venom albums that are considered first wave black metal are very dark thrash/speed metal, whose particular style influenced black metal considerably. However, If black metal had been developed from that sound alone, I guess Absu would count as black metal aswell, since it was essentially thrash/speed with certain different aesthetical choices. Absu's riffing styles shares fairly little with pure black metal, hence it's more helpful to tag it otherwise. Absu, just as venom, sounds something like an amalgamation of black metal and other things. Mostly thrash and speed metal for both of them, although Absu's style seems fairly unique to me.


I have the whole Absu discography and I can hear plenty of black metal riffing on it. Yes, it has a lot of thrash going on but it is still black metal, just like Aura Noir is not less black metal.

'Pure' black metal doesn't exist. It's a genre way too diverse to simply name one style the 'true' version of it and black metal exists pre-norwegians as second wave.

Ilwhyan wrote:
What constitutes black metal was chiefly defined by the second wave Norwegian classics. Call Venom black metal if you want, but it was the second wave that genuinely started the movement known as black metal - to count Venom as black metal is to extend the definition of the genre similarly as extending death metal to mean early German thrash or Sepultura. If you can't find more parallels between, for example, second wave black metal albums from the Nordic countries than you can between those and Venom albums, I don't know what's wrong with you.

GBK plays black metal, but their riffing is quite original, and it has less confluence with Norwegian black metal of the mid and early 90s than many bands. I didn't say at any point that GBK weren't black metal. I also didn't really mean to say there was no black metal in Absu's style. Absu isn't predominantly black metal from what I've listened to it; GBK certainly is, but not to the extent as certain Darkthrone, Mayhem or Gorgoroth albums.


Bathory, Samael, Celtic Frost, the whole black /thrash Southamerican scene, the early raw canadian bands and the whole Hellenic scene invalid your argument. See that all of them were doing black metal before 99% of the norwegian black metal bands (excepting Mayhem but no one gave a shit for their terrible produced demos).

See Samael for example. It was second wave, black metal thru and thru doing black metal and releasing a full length before norwegians did, putting demos before every norwegian band and before the existence of everyone excepting Mayhem. In fact, if you listen Immortal's debut, you'll notice how much Abbath draws from Vorph's vocal performance. Also, notice how early was developing the Hellenic scene, where Varathron, Necromantia and Rotting Christ (also Zemial) existed before norwegians had releases before them, doing straight-up black metal.

Blasphemy's Fallen Angel of Doom predates all norwegian black metal full lenghts; Blood Upon the Altar predates the very existence of 99% of norwegian black metal bands (except Darkthrone who didn't play black metal until 92' and Mayhem).

What do you think about Sarcófago? they were a direct influence on norwegians and even used corpsepaint before them.

Sorry, but the 'norwegian black metal is THE definition of black metal' is pure revisionism and sheer ignorance of people who got into black metal post 2000 via the most controversial acts (Burzum - Mayhem) and the most mainstream ones (Dimmu, Satyricon, Emperor) and knows only those most known bands.

Now, Sepultura were death/thrash, that's out of discussion. In your opinion, Possessed or pre- Human era Death can still be counted as death metal? cause it was just a bit darker way of thrash with growled vocals. If your answer is yes, then Absu being black metal is out of discussion.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6527
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:07 am 
 

This will be a short and crudely articulated response since I'm at work.

Early bands like Bathory, Samael and Celtic Frost played music that was in part black metal, but not purely so. Though it might've been called that at the time, definitions change. What was known as heavy metal in the early 70s isn't always so according to current standards. If the Norwegian bands hadn't innovated a style where the 80s bands' black metal aspects were enhanced and refined, today black metal would still mean theiir thrashy, speedy and doomy styles. I'd still call Bathory's early albums black even though they're very thrash based. The atmosphere is very different from thrash and death, for example.

As for Absu I'd say they're black/thrash, just like Aura Noir are. It would be rather misleading to call Aura Noir merely black metal, and I think same goes for Absu.

Merciful Fate is not black metal. They inspired many black metal musicians, but they do not belong to the genre. No amount of good will or sincere hope will ever make them black metal. Don't give me the "they used to be called that" either. Slayer was probably called death metal some time. It's also incredibly misleading to call them primordial black metal, just call them heavy metal and mention that they influenced a bunch of black metal musicians if it's relevant.
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KFD
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:19 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:13 am 
 

I fully agree with Ilwyhan.


AsinineUsername wrote:


What the fuck is this horrible noise/indus-wannabe cheap shit?
Is that considered as a "cult band"?
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KFD
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:19 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:19 am 
 

"Destroie Men and Beasts with Lookes"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think I've found a humour pearl here.
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pastafarian
Liberalestest Hitler Jugend

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:29 pm
Posts: 579
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:32 am 
 

speaking of usbm, what do y'all think of Ceremonial Castings?

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