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Deathstalker1985
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:53 pm
Posts: 155
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:19 am 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Everything. I even hated the way Luc sounded there, and I usually enjoy his vocal performances.


its probably not Luc's vocals that you hated on Obscura, its likely Steeve Hurdle's. if there is one thing I don't like about Obscura its that.

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Chaosmonger
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:21 am 
 

FWtH is a lot more traditional than Obscura though. They keep the dissonance but the performances are tighter. They also bring in a big Morbid Angel - Covenant influence. So you might still like it. I think it's a huge step down from Obscura but if you're a little baby that can't take Obscura, you might want to look into it ;)

New one is good btw, probably as good as FWtH, not as good as Obscura.

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Chaosmonger
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:22 am 
 

yeah, I think Hurdle does the really fucked up vocals on Obscura...and they're great! Really insane in a way death metal vocals rarely are. Almost sounded like a death metal Beefheart at times.

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Gypaetus
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:11 am 
 

DeathfareDevil wrote:

there's still loads of skree skronk sproing guitar weirdness.


:lol: I love the way you worded that. I still haven't gotten around to getting my hands on FWTH. I jumped from Obscura to Colored Sands, and I love both - Obscura for the skronking, and though Colored Sands lacks skronking, it more than makes up for it by having a much more immersive atmosphere, and better songwriting by far.

If I have a criticism about both albums, it's that they're both too long. Obscura is way more guilty of this than Colored Sands, though, and it's a minor gripe at most.
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:17 am 
 

DeathfareDevil wrote:
Xlxlx wrote:
Now, I ask you, people..... Is From Wisdom to Hate worth getting into? Oh, and remember that this question is coming from a guy who really hates Obscura.


FWTH has a very similar tone to Obscura; there's still loads of skree skronk sproing guitar weirdness. Those two albums are much more comparable than, say, Obscura and Erosion of Sanity. The songs are way more straightforward and compact, though, and the album is shorter. So whether you'll like FWTH depends on which was more offputting about Obscura: the weird jangly guitar tone or the disorienting Mobius strip songwriting.

Oh, the vocals are pretty much identical, save for the lack of Steeve Hurdle.

Exactly. No Half-Life 2 zombie vocals, but plenty of unorthodox guitar technique.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:24 am 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
(...) a moderately good melodic death metal album.

You better put a coma between that word and "death" before some people start losing their shit :-P

Yeah... I mean... it has melody and all...:roll:

Xlxlx wrote:
Now, I ask you, people..... Is From Wisdom to Hate worth getting into? Oh, and remember that this question is coming from a guy who really hates Obscura.

I've read the responses towards this question but let me just say that if you enjoy CS you'll most definitely enjoy FWTH as well. It's an incredibly dynamic album with a nearly perfect flow and sinergy between the different instruments. To me that album is completely underrated to be honest.

Empyreal wrote:
That review had a lot of good points, actually.

It has some points that make sense, but the same can't be said about the general tone and most of the arguments. It just reeks of elitist "DM died in 1993" bullshit.

One thing that never manages to fail to surprise me is how disposable metal is becoming through the eyes of newer fans. I mean, and this may sound like an elitist's rant, I get that everything is "available" as it is nowadays. It helps everyone that isn't rich to be able to discover a whole artistic world, and then slowly amass the bits that make sense. But I think people keep forgetting along the way that listening to music is a process! You don't just download an album without any prior knowledge of the band/style/scene/whatever and ditch it after half a dozen spins on accounts that it's boring/ill-constructed/whatever. You always have to put things in context, and I mean always! I've spent 10 years hating black metal because I was looking at it through fogged lenses and searching for things that just weren't there! How would I be able to find artistic merit in it then? Same thing is valid for Gorguts' comeback, where I'm seeing new/recent fans of the band left and right going like "oh, it's not as good as that apeshit crazy album from 1998" when they haven't even tried to understand what this band is about...

CS reminds me of Traced In Air in a way. Everyone was in between "will it be better than Focus?" and "will it be shit?" stances, but without wanting to sound like a pompous douche that album came out exactly as I has idealized it, or better put as I'd imagined it to be. Because you know, Cynic's members didn't stop playing in 1993 and had stints in Aghora or Gordian Knot for instance. So, what I'm trying to say is that, if you followed the artistic progression of the people involved (and the resulting music by extension) TIA really made a lot of sense and was exactly what was expected for Cynic to be playing at the time. CS is that but for Gorguts. People keep forgetting that Gorguts had four albums and that Steve only played on one of them, so Gorguts isn't just Obscura. More on that front, as I said above FWTH is a massively underrated album in my book. It has single-handedly the best drum performance on any Gorguts album, bar only probably John's on this new one. Steve MacDonald did an outstanding job on that album! It just reminds me a bit of Ceremony Of Opposites in terms of how everything falls in place and flows so perfectly, being over the top in execution but earthly in its composition. So is it that much of a surprise if CS sound more in line with FWTH than the rest of their discography (although it does have elements of both Obscura and TEOS)?

I think that people are just searching for things that aren't there with CS. This is Gorguts post-Steve Hurdle, this is Gorguts refined and brought up to a new decade. Funny thing is that any song in this album (OK, so Chamdo doesn't quite cut it) is perfectly indicative of the Gorguts sound! This isn't Obscura Pt.2 people, nor will it ever be. Nor is it TEOS Pt.2, nor will it ever be. And I don't want CS to try and be any of those albums! I want them to keep pushing forward while still dropping the nose back enough to not get strayed away from what Gorguts really is.

And guess what? They've done it. Much like TIA this album was all that I expected it to be and then some. i find it really hard to believe that anyone who enjoys the other four albums isn't able to see this. Now if you only like that one or you're just finally trying to sound convinced by the band... Please, just put things in its due context OK?! ;)
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:34 pm 
 

You know I didn't actually mean "melodeath" by that, right androdion? Just that CS is, in actuality, a very structured, melodic and technical DM album.

And you're right about putting things into context, I say the same things all the time. But just because it wasn't intended to be the next Obscura, and even if I do take it on its own merit, I still don't think I really see it as the "album of the decade" you were saying it was before. I just don't agree with that. Not even close, actually.
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Dragunov
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:54 pm 
 

It's definitely one of the best metal albums released in the last decade, though.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:28 pm 
 

It's everything in compositional and tone that I ever wanted. It's immediately recognizable as Gorguts to me and to the guy saying it was forgettable.. well that might just be you. I could immediately recall songs later after listening to it once. To me at least the more complicated and over the top and almost random sounding... I remember it far more than your standard verse chorus composition cause I don't have to even pay attention to see what comes next. I'm already aware of what's to come next.

I just wanted a bit more skronk, not Obscura pt2 the closest to that for me was that Negativa ep. And like androdion said it was a product of those musicians at that time. I would never expect the same from having a different line up with tons of growth inbetween. It's a very worthy followup.

I know when FWTH came out I was disappointed cause of it being a tad scaled back. I think I always said it sounded more like it's more like it's an album that should've bridged that Erosion of Sanity to Obscura.

Anyway I'm happy and that's the most important part for me.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:22 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
You know I didn't actually mean "melodeath" by that, right androdion? Just that CS is, in actuality, a very structured, melodic and technical DM album.

And you're right about putting things into context, I say the same things all the time. But just because it wasn't intended to be the next Obscura, and even if I do take it on its own merit, I still don't think I really see it as the "album of the decade" you were saying it was before. I just don't agree with that. Not even close, actually.

Of course I did Emp! Didn't you notice the sarcasm in my quote?! :p We should ask Morrigan/Hellblazer to make an emoticon waving a sign reading "sarcasm" to be available on the boards. :lol:

Dragunov wrote:
It's definitely one of the best metal albums released in the last decade, though.

Definitely a more realistic stance than mine obviously, and probably the most accurate. Not that I'm backtracking, as I still maintain that CS will make up for a new standard in writing/presentation/execution/quality, like a threshold to be upheld and/or transposed by the remaining scene.

What SLK said too, and as I pointed out above as well, I could also live with a bit more madness in the album. And to restate the counterpoint argument, I think the album is only as memorable as it is because of the lack of those same elements. Kind of a paradox isn't it?! ;)
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Dragunov
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:40 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
Definitely a more realistic stance than mine obviously, and probably the most accurate. Not that I'm backtracking, as I still maintain that CS will make up for a new standard in writing/presentation/execution/quality, like a threshold to be upheld and/or transposed by the remaining scene.


Maybe so, I think it could be a standard for bands that play in a similar style. Depends on how many musicians hold modern Gorguts in high regards, which may not be many despite the band being praised by many for their output. All boils down to taste, I guess.

androdion wrote:
What SLK said too, and as I pointed out above as well, I could also live with a bit more madness in the album. And to restate the counterpoint argument, I think the album is only as memorable as it is because of the lack of those same elements. Kind of a paradox isn't it?! ;)


A bit, yeah! Might've been one of the aspects of their sound they didn't want to rehash, who knows. Come to think of it, I can't seem to recall anybody that's been in the band since Obscura talking about the bizarre riffing in much depth, even though it's a large part of what makes Obscura and FWTH unique albums. Kind of odd...
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androdion
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:14 pm 
 

Dragunov wrote:
androdion wrote:
Definitely a more realistic stance than mine obviously, and probably the most accurate. Not that I'm backtracking, as I still maintain that CS will make up for a new standard in writing/presentation/execution/quality, like a threshold to be upheld and/or transposed by the remaining scene.


Maybe so, I think it could be a standard for bands that play in a similar style. Depends on how many musicians hold modern Gorguts in high regards, which may not be many despite the band being praised by many for their output. All boils down to taste, I guess.

Yeah, that's what I meant by "the remaining scene". Considering how many bands have build up their foundations on Gorguts' old sound I'd say that this album has the potential to become the new point of reference for them, as well as newcomers that share the style. It's a sort of "The Matrix" moment where there's clearly a before and an after. Time will tell, but my conviction is that it will be that kind of album.
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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:44 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
(...) a moderately good melodic death metal album.

You better put a coma between that word and "death" before some people start losing their shit :-P

androdion wrote:
Yeah... I mean... it has melody and all...:roll:

Just a tongue in cheek comment there, Andro. You know how some people get their knickers in a twist regarding melodeath :-P
androdion wrote:
Xlxlx wrote:
Now, I ask you, people..... Is From Wisdom to Hate worth getting into? Oh, and remember that this question is coming from a guy who really hates Obscura.

I've read the responses towards this question but let me just say that if you enjoy CS you'll most definitely enjoy FWTH as well. It's an incredibly dynamic album with a nearly perfect flow and sinergy between the different instruments. To me that album is completely underrated to be honest.

I've actually sampled a couple of songs from FWTH since I posted that comment, just for the sake of curiosity and..... Well, it didn't invoke violent revulsion in me the way Obscura does, but either way, I was far from thrilled. Not really my thing.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:00 pm 
 

Dragunov wrote:
Come to think of it, I can't seem to recall anybody that's been in the band since Obscura talking about the bizarre riffing in much depth, even though it's a large part of what makes Obscura and FWTH unique albums. Kind of odd...


I remember reading Luc saying a large part of the bizarre riffing was more of Steeve cause he wanted to push a guitar to see what's the most unique sounds he could create out of it with only changing how it's played or approached, not through tunings and pedals. Something I try to integrate myself. Luc liked the idea and that's why it was further pushed on FWTH but not to the same degree as Obscura and Negativa was supposed to be even further expansion on that. I think though as that band went on it Steeve was wanting it to be slower and include more elements that I don't think Luc wanted to pursue in his interest in the band.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:02 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Just a tongue in cheek comment there, Andro. You know how some people get their knickers in a twist regarding melodeath :-P

Ha ha, yeah yeah. :p

Xlxlx wrote:
I've actually sampled a couple of songs from FWTH since I posted that comment, just for the sake of curiosity and..... Well, it didn't invoke violent revulsion in me the way Obscura does, but either way, I was far from thrilled. Not really my thing.

The album works best as a whole because of how the songs flow into each other, and there's almost a sense of a theme being developed. But alas, if you're not excited now you won't be in the future.
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Wilytank
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:07 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
Colored Sands is definitely good, but it's immensely forgettable. I barely remember anything that happened on that album after four listens. I like that the insane weirdness of Obscura and FWTH has been toned down since I'm really not into either album outside of a couple songs, but even then it's just a forgettable, kind of boring album.


I think it's exactly the opposite. I was hooked on many of the songs right away. The title track, "Le Toit Le Monde", and "Reduced to Silence" have some really awesome parts to them. John Longstreth is easily the best drummer they've ever had and I'm glad there's no more masturbation in the guitar tracks.
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lord_ghengis
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:36 pm 
 

I admit I don't remember specifically what any of the parts sound like from my listens thus far, but I can certainly pinpoint parts which I think are totally fucking awesome, and I don't think the most important parts of music are the times when you're not listening to it, so memorability is pretty insignificant in the long run for me.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:42 am 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
I admit I don't remember specifically what any of the parts sound like from my listens thus far, but I can certainly pinpoint parts which I think are totally fucking awesome, and I don't think the most important parts of music are the times when you're not listening to it, so memorability is pretty insignificant in the long run for me.


I agree. I always think it's silly when people use that "I can't remember any of the songs" argument. Sometimes its valid, like if you literally can't remember what they sound like, but a lot of the times there doesn't have to be super-catchy hooks - it just has to leave an impact on you, a feeling that you want to listen again. That's what good music should do.
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TheIbexMoon666
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:40 pm 
 

Colored Sands is fucking awesome, plain and simple. This is an album that sounds like Gorguts and is in no way disappointing. Anyone who likes their past albums should like this. Anyone who is familar with Gorguts should not be taken by suprise. Colored Sands is not the greatest album of all time but this is exactly the type of album people should expect and want from them. They did not reinvent the wheel but the wheel keeps turning.

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androdion
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:32 pm 
 

Do you guys remember how Luc said that he composed all songs but each member had a finger in one specific song on his own? Now that many of you have physical copies, would you mind browsing the booklet for the songwriting credits? I'm actually quite curious as to know who wrote which.
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DarthVenom
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:36 pm 
 

androdion wrote:
Do you guys remember how Luc said that he composed all songs but each member had a finger in one specific song on his own? Now that many of you have physical copies, would you mind browsing the booklet for the songwriting credits? I'm actually quite curious as to know who wrote which.


I've got the booklet right in my lap as I type this. There are only two songs that are mentioned in the booklet as being partially composed by someone other than Lemay: Forgotten Arrows lists Marston as the musical composer, and Absconders says Hufnagel composed the music. Lemay gets lyrical credit on those cuts, and is listed as the musical and lyrical composer on every other song.

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androdion
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:25 pm 
 

DarthVenom wrote:
androdion wrote:
Do you guys remember how Luc said that he composed all songs but each member had a finger in one specific song on his own? Now that many of you have physical copies, would you mind browsing the booklet for the songwriting credits? I'm actually quite curious as to know who wrote which.


I've got the booklet right in my lap as I type this. There are only two songs that are mentioned in the booklet as being partially composed by someone other than Lemay: Forgotten Arrows lists Marston as the musical composer, and Absconders says Hufnagel composed the music. Lemay gets lyrical credit on those cuts, and is listed as the musical and lyrical composer on every other song.

You're a peach! :p Kind of surprised that Absconders is Kevin's song to be honest.
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Windom Earle
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:28 pm 
 

This album is a fucking monster!

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kalervon
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:14 pm 
 

My ears are probably getting bad.. it does this with many "musically involved" albums. When I play them at normal/low volume, I don't hear any of the intricacies and can't really discover the music enough to appreciate it. When I do play it loud enough, well, that's just wonderful then but my ears start buzzing the minute I turn it down.

What I heard from CS so far is really great. But I need to take some time and listen to only a few songs a day, before I can play it at low volume and let my brain interpolate between the parts that I don't hear. I'm still in discovery mode with that album

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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:26 pm 
 

You might want to get your ears checked out if you mean your ears are literally buzzing after listening to something at an higher volume.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:31 am 
 

Yeah dude, your ears seem to be a bit busted... Go see a doctor and request a tonal audiogram to track down hearing loss in the most important frequencies. And if you happen to live/work with a lot of noise around you then you should give your ears some rest. Hearing loss is final, it just doesn't come back... :(
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:56 pm 
 

Check this out dude, it's an online hearing test, I’ve been 'using' it for years.
I'll send you the link in a PM too just in case you're not checking this thread often
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/hearing.html
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:34 pm 
 

So I was in my local music shop yesterday and I saw a JEWEL CASE version of Colored Sands, actually 2 of them :scratch:
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androdion
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:48 pm 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
So I was in my local music shop yesterday and I saw a JEWEL CASE version of Colored Sands, actually 2 of them :scratch:

First press on digipak, later ones in jewel case. I guess it's selling well then. :p
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Nochielo
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:01 pm 
 

Finally got my copy about a week ago (didn't hear a note before that), and I think I'm ready to formulate an opinion. I can't find anything I don't like, this album is one for the ages. I did hear some parts and chords here and there that recall Ulcerate (especially EiF) but the whole thing is definitely Gorguts and it is pushing the sound forward. Love it.
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:34 am 
 

So this is now available on cassette tape...
Not sure how these people got my email address though :scratch:

http://neverdead.bigcartel.com/product/gorguts-colored-sands

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the_raytownian
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:49 am 
 

I kinda hate that I'm broke now... I wanna get both. Because I <3 tapes. "Haters gonna hate", but tapes are awesome. SINCE ALWAYS.
At the same time, the price is pretty ridiculous. It's not so bad when you include the patch in the price, but... eh... 8 euros adds up to a lot for tapes in USD, especially with shipping to the US.

8 USD is about as much as I'm willing to spend on a new tape, considering how poor the quality of most tapes is nowadays. IDK if there's better dubbers in EU, I just know most modern US tape dubs are pretty cheesy. Not really worth the average price of a brand new major label cassette release ca. 1998, and I can't remember ever paying more than $10 for tapes back then.
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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:56 am 
 

Not sure why the promotional image for it has been altered
And as mentioned in the recent purchases thread the tape looks empty?!

Also the tape looks like it has been altered too [text], and there is a typo!
On the grey one next to the logo something has been obscured too

Image

Image
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the_raytownian
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:15 am 
 

I can only assume they used stock photos from the dubbing company and (poorly) applied the shell printing graphics in photoshop for a digital mock-up.
That, or it's the dubbing company's mock-up. Perhaps they let buyers upload an image of the shell printing graphics to get an idea of what it will look like on the finished product.

You'd think the label would make a little effort to photograph the actual tapes, though, since these mock-ups look awfully cheesy.
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KinskiTemper
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Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:30 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:16 am 
 

I really don't get the whole cassette thing.

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the_raytownian
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:18 am 
 

KinskiTemper wrote:
I really don't get the whole cassette thing.

Well, it's been explained at length in other recent threads, so I'm not sure what your point is in bringing it up here. I don't mean to sound snippy, but it's not like you aren't the 5th person to bring up how you "don't get tapes" this week.
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KinskiTemper
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Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:30 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:19 am 
 

the_raytownian wrote:
KinskiTemper wrote:
I really don't get the whole cassette thing.

Well, it's been explained at length in other recent threads, so I'm not sure what your point is in bringing it up here. I don't mean to sound snippy, but it's not like you aren't the 5th person to bring up how you "don't get tapes" recently.


Sorry, I don't read every thread on this board.

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dreadmeat
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:27 am 
 

the_raytownian wrote:
You'd think the label would make a little effort to photograph the actual tapes, though, since these mock-ups look awfully cheesy.
Yep, they look really bad, I don't want one anyway but I especially don't want one of these now.
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TheMysticWombat
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:29 am
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Location: CA, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:48 am 
 

dreadmeat wrote:
So this is now available on cassette tape...
Not sure how these people got my email address though :scratch:


I really don't like tapes. And I already own the digipak.
But that patch.

:nono:

Paid $15 USD.

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:51 am 
 

I got rid of my Digipak because I found a jewel case version
I've asked on the Gorguts FB page and on that label's FB pages if it's legit and if we can get some photos

The patch is legit I hope...
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