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Ancient_Mariner
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:20 pm
Posts: 286
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:59 pm 
 

I've only ever seen one Folk Metal band, and that was Eluveitie opening for Bodom a couple years back. We were late and missed most of the set but the 4 songs I caught were great and I grabbed a CD and was hooked. No dudes dressed like vikings and shit so I haven't experienced that.

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RapeTheDead
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:48 pm
Posts: 451
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 3:23 pm 
 

Most big-name folk metal is total shit. Ensiferum's definitely a solid band, but there's a lot of other stuff going on there and they do the style right while still being pretty accessible; Finntroll, Eluveitie, Korpiklaani, Turisas, though...and don't even get me started on the shit Napalm Records pushes. Fuck Arkona. It's all just sea shanty humppa folk whateverthefuckyouwannacallit melodies that are extremely pompous, obnoxious and grating, except since there's chugging distorted guitars and harsh vocals I guess it's metal...? It's some of the most shallow and irritating music I've heard. Even Moonsorrow fucked it up; they had an interesting idea but I'm definitely siding with iamntbatman on the over-present keyboards and the songs just don't go anywhere I want to go. Even slightly lesser-known stuff like Wolfchant consistently fails to captivate me. The only bands I ever find tolerable that have the "folk" prefix attached to them are usually the ones that keep the "metal" part of their genre tag intact and integrate the folkish aspects as a much more underlying component; Windir, Skyforger and Horn, to name a few.
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FengisRipRider
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:31 pm
Posts: 65
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:35 pm 
 

Most of what people have played that they consider folk metal just sounds like european power metal ala strovarious or edguy only with a flute or tribal drum. Not sure why they don't just listen to power metal instead because its just as gay. I do like some stuff that has norse leaning though like the first few Enlsaved albums (still black metal), and the Isengard side project of Fenriz.

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braggart_beetle
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:01 am
Posts: 14
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 11:34 pm 
 

SisuBerserk wrote:
Whenever I want to listen to some easy-going and funny stuff I go with Korpiklaani, Finntroll, Metsatöll and the like. If I want to listen to some "heroic" stuff I go with Ensiferum.

Folk metal is funny stuff, not super-serious.



Sr. you're wise

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4122
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:55 am 
 

FengisRipRider wrote:
Most of what people have played that they consider folk metal just sounds like european power metal ala strovarious or edguy only with a flute or tribal drum. Not sure why they don't just listen to power metal instead because its just as gay. I do like some stuff that has norse leaning though like the first few Enlsaved albums (still black metal), and the Isengard side project of Fenriz.

Power metal is badass, manly music and has nothing to do with wimpy polka rock like Korpiklaani.
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vengefulgoat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:15 am
Posts: 977
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:23 am 
 

Most the oriental (non-european or US/Canada whites) stuff that claims to be inspired by their heritage and/or folk music tends to be mediocre, without much song writing and instrumental abilities. Al-Namrood is great, Vajrah and Apolion's Genocide demo from Colombia are decent, and so is Mongolian (Chinese) Tengger Cavalry. I haven't heard all of the oriental bands, but doing some research (good way to start is to check out some "best oriental metal" youtube vids) shows that most of them aren't great...

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 18558
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:41 am 
 

inhumanist wrote:
FengisRipRider wrote:
Most of what people have played that they consider folk metal just sounds like european power metal ala strovarious or edguy only with a flute or tribal drum. Not sure why they don't just listen to power metal instead because its just as gay. I do like some stuff that has norse leaning though like the first few Enlsaved albums (still black metal), and the Isengard side project of Fenriz.

Power metal is badass, manly music and has nothing to do with wimpy polka rock like Korpiklaani.


:lol: Exactly. Even Stratovarius and Edguy have heavier, better moments.
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Panflute
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:11 am
Posts: 444
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 8:47 am 
 

With this topic in the back of my head, I listened to some more folk stuff, and I noticed that bands who play in a certain style (black metal or whatever) and use folk elements tend to be better than full-blown folk metal, at least from the stuff I'm familiar with. Bands like Kawir, Nokturnal Mortum and Drudkh all sound rather superb exactly because they don't rely too much on the folk elements. The usual folk bands like Eluveitie and Korpiklaani (and I know I'm using extreme examples) are bad because they try to base the songwriting on folk instruments with the guitars filling in the blanks instead of the other way around. More often than not, this makes for extremely poor songwriting and musicianship. Of course, there are exceptions, like Arkona (the Russian one) if we ignore their polka-fueled output. But in general I've always experienced folk metal as being kitschy music that propagates extremely juvenile visions of Europe's past. Again, this is just an experience derived from my very limited perception, so if anyone wants to point me into the right direction, I'm open to suggestions.

Just an alternative thought: has it occurred to anyone that a lot of folk metal is unbearable if you are familiar with any of the instruments involved? I ask this because the reason that I could never stand most of these (quasi-)Irish rockbands (other than their music being poor taste) is that I can actually hear if someone's a good backpipe player or not, and nearly all of them sucked balls beyond belief.

vengefulgoat wrote:
Most the oriental (non-european or US/Canada whites) stuff that claims to be inspired by their heritage and/or folk music tends to be mediocre, without much song writing and instrumental abilities. Al-Namrood is great, Vajrah and Apolion's Genocide demo from Colombia are decent, and so is Mongolian (Chinese) Tengger Cavalry. I haven't heard all of the oriental bands, but doing some research (good way to start is to check out some "best oriental metal" youtube vids) shows that most of them aren't great...


It's not strictly metal (rather post-rock), but I recommend anyone looking for a good blend of traditional Chinese music and modern music to check out Zhaoze, particularly their album 1911.
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Paganbasque
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 1424
Location: Basque Country
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:38 am 
 

Panflute wrote:
With this topic in the back of my head, I listened to some more folk stuff, and I noticed that bands who play in a certain style (black metal or whatever) and use folk elements tend to be better than full-blown folk metal, at least from the stuff I'm familiar with. Bands like Kawir, Nokturnal Mortum and Drudkh all sound rather superb exactly because they don't rely too much on the folk elements. The usual folk bands like Eluveitie and Korpiklaani (and I know I'm using extreme examples) are bad because they try to base the songwriting on folk instruments with the guitars filling in the blanks instead of the other way around. More often than not, this makes for extremely poor songwriting and musicianship. Of course, there are exceptions, like Arkona (the Russian one) if we ignore their polka-fueled output. But in general I've always experienced folk metal as being kitschy music that propagates extremely juvenile visions of Europe's past. Again, this is just an experience derived from my very limited perception, so if anyone wants to point me into the right direction, I'm open to suggestions.

Just an alternative thought: has it occurred to anyone that a lot of folk metal is unbearable if you are familiar with any of the instruments involved? I ask this because the reason that I could never stand most of these (quasi-)Irish rockbands (other than their music being poor taste) is that I can actually hear if someone's a good backpipe player or not, and nearly all of them sucked balls beyond belief.

vengefulgoat wrote:
Most the oriental (non-european or US/Canada whites) stuff that claims to be inspired by their heritage and/or folk music tends to be mediocre, without much song writing and instrumental abilities. Al-Namrood is great, Vajrah and Apolion's Genocide demo from Colombia are decent, and so is Mongolian (Chinese) Tengger Cavalry. I haven't heard all of the oriental bands, but doing some research (good way to start is to check out some "best oriental metal" youtube vids) shows that most of them aren't great...


It's not strictly metal (rather post-rock), but I recommend anyone looking for a good blend of traditional Chinese music and modern music to check out Zhaoze, particularly their album 1911.



Well, with folk metal can happen the same as in other styles which mix very different music styles ( symphonic metal, electronic metal, jazz/prog metal,etc). The combination of theoretically antagonist styles is not easy, this is something people should not forget, and to reach the correct balance between them is, at least, tricky. The easiest way is to introduce only little parts of folk, basing your music on metal riffs but I specially appreciate when a band introduces great parts of folk sections, because it is difficult to do it properly, and if the band reaches a correct balance the result is awesome ( take a look to Arkona, or two examples of my land, Aiumeen Basoa and Ilbeltz). I dont like bands who claim to be folk metal and then you only listen to some folk in an instrumental or a isolated part of one or two songs.

I not mention Eluveite because your opinion about them is not good, but I like how much folk they introduce, but it seems that their use of modern/alternative guitars in the vein of In flames creates a very bad reaction in some people.

On the other hand, which is your opinion about the back pipe player who takes par in Suidakra´s last albums?

Very interesting your recommendation of the Chinese band, I have to check it out.

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MorbidPentagram
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 9:55 am
Posts: 17
Location: Korea, South
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 11:11 am 
 

i think they are mostly not metallic and shit except isengard, later bathory, etc viking metal bands.
because it have miss for originality of metal like greatness only feel in metal, impressive as heaviness sound, excellent structure and natually describe for metallic theme as sound play. so it havent be real metal sound.
certainly, its sound many wrong look as metal because they are very many use sweet melody not like metal(then structure also bad).
but i think great like isengard, later bathory, etc. they use impressive and epic melody and strong vocal like ancient viking warrior and epic structure. theme also for the viking history and brave of viking warrior. therefore, they sound is brilliant.
yeah its my think haha...

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AzamatBagatov
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:49 pm
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:42 am 
 

Orphaned Land... enough said. Folk influences and just awesome music. And, at least to me, Mabool wasn't cheesy at all.

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baron samedi
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 11:26 pm
Posts: 56
Location: Kyoto, Japan
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:03 am 
 

Folk metal sounds like the feeling of having a neck-beard

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metaden
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:50 am
Posts: 29
Location: India
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:31 am 
 

iAm wrote:
I find it incredibly cheesy unless done absolutely right. Bands like Korpiklaani are the worst.


Me too.

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grauer_mausling
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 1761
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:20 am 
 

like many others here I can't find a liking in the silly, jolly stuff (with an occassional song every now and then) but if one right,
folk metal can really transport some kind of atmosphere of, hmm, "something past". Yeah, totally vague but I'm lacking better words.

The perfect example of metal with folk elements to me are Månegarm. Their music is full of what most of the jolly bands miss out:
passion, anger, melancholy and spirit, all bound together in their special sound. Other bands I consider great examples are
Moonsorrow (esp.on Verisäkeet), the first two Borknagar albums (folky to a certain extent, imo) Storm, Wyrd, Piarevaracien,
Natural Spirit, Weeping Twilight and some others of the east european / russian scenes.
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Panflute
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:11 am
Posts: 444
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:36 am 
 

Paganbasque wrote:
Well, with folk metal can happen the same as in other styles which mix very different music styles ( symphonic metal, electronic metal, jazz/prog metal,etc). The combination of theoretically antagonist styles is not easy, this is something people should not forget, and to reach the correct balance between them is, at least, tricky. The easiest way is to introduce only little parts of folk, basing your music on metal riffs but I specially appreciate when a band introduces great parts of folk sections, because it is difficult to do it properly, and if the band reaches a correct balance the result is awesome ( take a look to Arkona, or two examples of my land, Aiumeen Basoa and Ilbeltz). I dont like bands who claim to be folk metal and then you only listen to some folk in an instrumental or a isolated part of one or two songs.

I not mention Eluveite because your opinion about them is not good, but I like how much folk they introduce, but it seems that their use of modern/alternative guitars in the vein of In flames creates a very bad reaction in some people.

On the other hand, which is your opinion about the back pipe player who takes par in Suidakra´s last albums?

Very interesting your recommendation of the Chinese band, I have to check it out.


The main problem seems to be that a lot of folk metal bands have a "baroque" type approach, while I usually adhere to a 'less is more' mentality. An excellent example of this is Kawir's latest album. The folk elements are very light, but their presence really adds to the quality, as they give the black metal an organic, authentic sound.

As much as I love Arkona, some of the more bombastic, orchestral songs really annoy me, whereas the full-blown folk songs and the metal songs with dosed folk elements are among my favourites.

I must admit I had never really listened to Suidakra before, and based on the few songs I've heard it's hard to judge as the guitars are louder than the bagpipes most of the time. The composition of the bagpipe parts, though, seems to be relatively* simple compared to Arkona's music. The bagpipe player of Arkona is quite good save for the occasional mistake.

*I say "relatively" because it can take well over a year of training to even be able to produce one clear tone from a bagpipe, so truly 'simple' or 'easy' compositions do not exist with this instrument.
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Zinchism
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 8:39 pm
Posts: 1
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:44 pm 
 

I love that shit. It has such a whole-hearted and kindred spirit to it. If I'm ever in the mood for some really happy metal, I'll usually go to a folk band, Korpiklaani in particular.

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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1038
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:54 pm 
 

RapeTheDead wrote:
Fuck Arkona.


this. many times this. absolute terrible band. it's kind of like they exist purely as an example of how you can do heavy metal in the opposite way of how i like to hear it.

baron samedi wrote:
Folk metal sounds like the feeling of having a neck-beard


hahahahahaha

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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1038
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:58 pm 
 

on topic, moonsorrow is more or less the only band that plays in this genre (or did for a few albums) that i can stand. it sounds like heavy metal, but it looks and feels like LARPing. it's not the heavy metal i signed up for.

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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 7263
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:10 pm 
 

Panflute wrote:
The main problem seems to be that a lot of folk metal bands have a "baroque" type approach, while I usually adhere to a 'less is more' mentality.


That's a really excellent point. It's especially curious to me because the whole history of classical music vs. folk music is essentially the endless confrontation between art music and popular music, or high culture and popular culture. Classical music is composed by composers and often played by professional musicians. Folk music is just played by regular people, playing some stuff that sounds good. So, I tend to find the most powerful folk metal (and other types of metal, too) to be that which is most direct. Screwing around with orchestral arrangements and proggy arrangements seems to go against the simple but powerful basis of folk music. I think Quorthon largely got it right, and when I listen to those who take influence from those viking Bathory albums, I'm drawn much more toward the "less is more" stylings of bands like Ereb Altor and Falkenbach than bands like Myrkgrav, who don't seem to want to take advantage of the beauty that can result from riding out simple melodies.
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Paganbasque
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 1424
Location: Basque Country
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:33 am 
 

Panflute wrote:
Paganbasque wrote:
Well, with folk metal can happen the same as in other styles which mix very different music styles ( symphonic metal, electronic metal, jazz/prog metal,etc). The combination of theoretically antagonist styles is not easy, this is something people should not forget, and to reach the correct balance between them is, at least, tricky. The easiest way is to introduce only little parts of folk, basing your music on metal riffs but I specially appreciate when a band introduces great parts of folk sections, because it is difficult to do it properly, and if the band reaches a correct balance the result is awesome ( take a look to Arkona, or two examples of my land, Aiumeen Basoa and Ilbeltz). I dont like bands who claim to be folk metal and then you only listen to some folk in an instrumental or a isolated part of one or two songs.

I not mention Eluveite because your opinion about them is not good, but I like how much folk they introduce, but it seems that their use of modern/alternative guitars in the vein of In flames creates a very bad reaction in some people.

On the other hand, which is your opinion about the back pipe player who takes par in Suidakra´s last albums?

Very interesting your recommendation of the Chinese band, I have to check it out.


The main problem seems to be that a lot of folk metal bands have a "baroque" type approach, while I usually adhere to a 'less is more' mentality. An excellent example of this is Kawir's latest album. The folk elements are very light, but their presence really adds to the quality, as they give the black metal an organic, authentic sound.

As much as I love Arkona, some of the more bombastic, orchestral songs really annoy me, whereas the full-blown folk songs and the metal songs with dosed folk elements are among my favourites.

I must admit I had never really listened to Suidakra before, and based on the few songs I've heard it's hard to judge as the guitars are louder than the bagpipes most of the time. The composition of the bagpipe parts, though, seems to be relatively* simple compared to Arkona's music. The bagpipe player of Arkona is quite good save for the occasional mistake.

*I say "relatively" because it can take well over a year of training to even be able to produce one clear tone from a bagpipe, so truly 'simple' or 'easy' compositions do not exist with this instrument.


Well, I like the bombastic songs of Arkona, but I have the same opinion and my favourite ones are, bay far, the pure folk songs and the metal songs with some folk elements.

Suidakra made it right with Caledonia and Crogarth, finally adding some "real" folk elements, and as you have mentioned, they did it in a simply way, not adding to many folk elements or too complex ones, so you could find interesting a few songs of this band.

I didn’t know that the bagpipe was such a tricky instrument to play; at least my knowledge about this instrument will be a little bit bigger thanks to this post haha.

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Paganbasque
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 1424
Location: Basque Country
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:38 am 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
Panflute wrote:
The main problem seems to be that a lot of folk metal bands have a "baroque" type approach, while I usually adhere to a 'less is more' mentality.


That's a really excellent point. It's especially curious to me because the whole history of classical music vs. folk music is essentially the endless confrontation between art music and popular music, or high culture and popular culture. Classical music is composed by composers and often played by professional musicians. Folk music is just played by regular people, playing some stuff that sounds good. So, I tend to find the most powerful folk metal (and other types of metal, too) to be that which is most direct. Screwing around with orchestral arrangements and proggy arrangements seems to go against the simple but powerful basis of folk music. I think Quorthon largely got it right, and when I listen to those who take influence from those viking Bathory albums, I'm drawn much more toward the "less is more" stylings of bands like Ereb Altor and Falkenbach than bands like Myrkgrav, who don't seem to want to take advantage of the beauty that can result from riding out simple melodies.


What you say it’s a very interesting conclusion and a right one. Folk music should not be too complex because this goes against its essence; folk music is the voice of a land, of the people and the most primary art which expresses feelings closely related to the folklore of a country/land/tribe, so complexity could destroy this pure essence.

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deplo
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:36 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Lebanon
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:49 am 
 

The problem with modern folk metal is the huge emphasis on the ethnic instruments and the lack of actual riffs, only supporting power-chords in the background.

I am really surprised that no one mentioned Alkonost! They don't have folk instruments in their music, they largely rely on the lead guitar to create the folk melodies, some unique-sounding and sophisticated riffs are being played in their music. Anyway haters of Alkonost will always claim: all their songs sound the same. This is only partially true, as you cannot ignore the atmospheric keyboard, the bass guitar and the vocals.

As for Arkona, Alkonost easily tops them, however I think that, without Masha, Arkona is nothing! Sergei Lazar should consider playing some real riffs from time to time...

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DoomMetalAlchemist
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 479
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:31 am 
 

deplo wrote:
The problem with modern folk metal is the huge emphasis on the ethnic instruments and the lack of actual riffs, only supporting power-chords in the background.

I am really surprised that no one mentioned Alkonost! They don't have folk instruments in their music, they largely rely on the lead guitar to create the folk melodies, some unique-sounding and sophisticated riffs are being played in their music. Anyway haters of Alkonost will always claim: all their songs sound the same. This is only partially true, as you cannot ignore the atmospheric keyboard, the bass guitar and the vocals.

As for Arkona, Alkonost easily tops them, however I think that, without Masha, Arkona is nothing! Sergei Lazar should consider playing some real riffs from time to time...


"Doom" is included in Alkonost's genre on here, so just out of curiosity, which is their doomiest album?

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deplo
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:36 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Lebanon
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 7:37 am 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
deplo wrote:
The problem with modern folk metal is the huge emphasis on the ethnic instruments and the lack of actual riffs, only supporting power-chords in the background.

I am really surprised that no one mentioned Alkonost! They don't have folk instruments in their music, they largely rely on the lead guitar to create the folk melodies, some unique-sounding and sophisticated riffs are being played in their music. Anyway haters of Alkonost will always claim: all their songs sound the same. This is only partially true, as you cannot ignore the atmospheric keyboard, the bass guitar and the vocals.

As for Arkona, Alkonost easily tops them, however I think that, without Masha, Arkona is nothing! Sergei Lazar should consider playing some real riffs from time to time...


"Doom" is included in Alkonost's genre on here, so just out of curiosity, which is their doomiest album?


Definitely "Kаменного Сердца Кровь" for its laid-back, almost-meditational atmosphere with an occasional fast tempo from time to time. The lead guitar riffs brightly shine on this album.

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Al ... %8C/163974

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vengefulgoat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:15 am
Posts: 977
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 9:28 am 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
deplo wrote:
The problem with modern folk metal is the huge emphasis on the ethnic instruments and the lack of actual riffs, only supporting power-chords in the background.

I am really surprised that no one mentioned Alkonost! They don't have folk instruments in their music, they largely rely on the lead guitar to create the folk melodies, some unique-sounding and sophisticated riffs are being played in their music. Anyway haters of Alkonost will always claim: all their songs sound the same. This is only partially true, as you cannot ignore the atmospheric keyboard, the bass guitar and the vocals.

As for Arkona, Alkonost easily tops them, however I think that, without Masha, Arkona is nothing! Sergei Lazar should consider playing some real riffs from time to time...


"Doom" is included in Alkonost's genre on here, so just out of curiosity, which is their doomiest album?

None. God's Tower "The Turns" might be your doomy (and better) Alkonost.

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joppek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
Posts: 805
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:10 am 
 

Panflute wrote:
Just an alternative thought: has it occurred to anyone that a lot of folk metal is unbearable if you are familiar with any of the instruments involved? I ask this because the reason that I could never stand most of these (quasi-)Irish rockbands (other than their music being poor taste) is that I can actually hear if someone's a good backpipe player or not, and nearly all of them sucked balls beyond belief.


it's called a "bagpipe"
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talvikki77
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:20 pm
Posts: 183
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 11:44 am 
 

vengefulgoat wrote:
Even if there are few decent songs in Korpiklaani, why should one bother with such a bad band when instead just from Finland you can pick Stormheit, Wyrd, Moonsorrow, Haive, Solgrav/Auringon Hauta or Hin Onde?

Well, to you only the serious folk songs are decent - for me, I like both the party-type songs and the serious songs. If at home, it depends what mood I'm in; if I'm going to a show, I'll have different expectations for a band like Korpiklaani vs. Moonsorrow (seeing them both in one night actually was a bit of a trip). Thanks for the recommendations btw, I don't know if I've ever heard any Haive or Hin Onde, I'll check them out.

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Scorntyrant wrote:
Put it like this, you meet someone down the pub and they say "oh yeah, I like a couple of metal bands". I'll bet you anything that they are going to name Finntroll etc


Yeah right, they'd name Metallica, Ozzy, or some metalcore or nu metal band.

Yeah, around here (mid-Atlantic coast of the US), especially teenagers and other young people (I'm 27, so I guess i mean my age or younger XD) would name some metalcore band like August Burns Red. (I only remember this band name because this actually happened when I had a student who said he liked "metal".) This what the media feeds people around here as "metal." We are not lucky enough to have folk metal be the "pop" of metal, it's metalcore, hardcore and bands like Slipknot and Five Finger Death Punch. Even diehard metalheads around here usually haven't heard of folk metal.

For the person asking about Chinese/Mongolian folk metal.. Ego Fall also uses some Mongolian folk elements, but I don't know enough about them say whether they are folk metal or just folk-influenced. This person posts a lot of Chinese metal on youtube; pretty much all the Chinese metal I know is because of him(?).

I can see why people might say folk metal bands like Korpiklaani or Arkona are "less metal" because the guitars are not as strong. I'm right with you that heavy guitars and good riffs are essential to metal. It's probably the reason I can't get into hair metal, no matter how much my bf foists it on me XD It's just not heavy and riffy enough. I guess I like the folk melodies and instruments in those folk metal bands for their own sake, and I'm not afraid to admit that. I like folk music! So (authentic) folk music with heavy guitars in the background, for me, is just making a good thing better. When the guitars are heavy enough, it can sound downright brutal (imo). For instance, in Arkona's "Pokrovi Nebesnogo Startsa," I love the bridge (around 1:10) where the bagpipes skirl over the guitars, it makes me want to throw my friends against the wall, haha. Feel free to disagree of course - I don't expect that everyone is so into folk music.
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Thexhumed
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 1:58 pm 
 

Most of these super famous party-woohoo-like Folk Metal bands sound to me just like a Skater punk band with a flute.

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Vitross
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:38 pm
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Location: Poland
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:23 pm 
 

It's quite surprising that so many people speak so negatively on folk metal in this thread. It seems that most people can't stand the bigger bands like Korpiklaani, because their music isn't that serious and often the guitars aren't the most important instrument in songs. It's like for some people metal has to have mega riffs, solos and killing poseurs attitude to be metal. Many people here are death/thrash maniacs, and I can see how this music doesn't suit them. I can also see how people who listen to metal since the 80's would hate folk metal, because it doesn't have those solos and those riffs. After all it's called folk metal so it's obvious that folk instruments are going to be as important as electric guitars. What's odd for me is that Korpiklaani and Finntroll have quite good ratings here, for example Nattfodd by Finntroll has 14 ratings and an overall of 91%. Even their latest release has 88% with 4 ratings, and in this thread I see 80% of people bashing these bands.
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Panflute
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:26 pm 
 

joppek wrote:
Panflute wrote:
Just an alternative thought: has it occurred to anyone that a lot of folk metal is unbearable if you are familiar with any of the instruments involved? I ask this because the reason that I could never stand most of these (quasi-)Irish rockbands (other than their music being poor taste) is that I can actually hear if someone's a good backpipe player or not, and nearly all of them sucked balls beyond belief.


it's called a "bagpipe"


Haha, I know. I make stupid spelling mistakes when I'm trying to do multiple things at a time.
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Cthulhu_Fhtagn
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:32 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:52 pm 
 

Vitross wrote:
It's quite surprising that so many people speak so negatively on folk metal in this thread. It seems that most people can't stand the bigger bands like Korpiklaani, because their music isn't that serious and often the guitars aren't the most important instrument in songs. It's like for some people metal has to have mega riffs, solos and killing poseurs attitude to be metal. Many people here are death/thrash maniacs, and I can see how this music doesn't suit them. I can also see how people who listen to metal since the 80's would hate folk metal, because it doesn't have those solos and those riffs. After all it's called folk metal so it's obvious that folk instruments are going to be as important as electric guitars. What's odd for me is that Korpiklaani and Finntroll have quite good ratings here, for example Nattfodd by Finntroll has 14 ratings and an overall of 91%. Even their latest release has 88% with 4 ratings, and in this thread I see 80% of people bashing these bands.

I know! I get really annoyed by all the whole "folk metal has to be cold and grim" thing going on. I prefer when the folk elements are stronger or equal with the metal elements. I took a listen to One Rode to Asa Bay and it didn't really seem very folky at all to me. It just sounded like heavy metal about vikings. Not the epic song that I've heard people saying. I like fluffy power metal and happy folk metal, but I also like plenty of technical death metal and in-your-face grindcore. Then again, I hate black metal and all of its forms (I can't get past the black metal rasp). Black metal is about the only metal genre that I cannot get into (except for varients of doom which I haven't listened to, and brutal death metal).
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inhumanist
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:00 pm 
 

Vitross wrote:
It's quite surprising that so many people speak so negatively on folk metal in this thread. It seems that most people can't stand the bigger bands like Korpiklaani, because their music isn't that serious and often the guitars aren't the most important instrument in songs. It's like for some people metal has to have mega riffs, solos and killing poseurs attitude to be metal. Many people here are death/thrash maniacs, and I can see how this music doesn't suit them. I can also see how people who listen to metal since the 80's would hate folk metal, because it doesn't have those solos and those riffs.

Yup, people only dislike Korpiklaani because they don't have enough solos and "mega riffs" and don't act like they are an 80s underground band. Totally nailed that one.

Quote:
After all it's called folk metal so it's obvious that folk instruments are going to be as important as electric guitars.

Haha, you won't believe this shit: There are folk metal bands that use folk instruments only sparsely or not at all!

Quote:
What's odd for me is that Korpiklaani and Finntroll have quite good ratings here, for example Nattfodd by Finntroll has 14 ratings and an overall of 91%. Even their latest release has 88% with 4 ratings, and in this thread I see 80% of people bashing these bands.

I guess only their fans can be bothered to review them.

Cthulhu_Fhtagn wrote:
I know! I get really annoyed by all the whole "folk metal has to be cold and grim" thing going on.

People who say folk metal is supposed to be like black metal are obviously idiots, but they are also probably strawmen you made up.

Cthulhu_Fhtagn wrote:
I took a listen to One Rode to Asa Bay and it didn't really seem very folky at all to me. It just sounded like heavy metal about vikings.

Well, that might be because it's heavy metal about vikings. You could say it's viking metal. Why would anyone think Hammerheart was folk metal?

Quote:
I like fluffy power metal and happy folk metal, but I also like plenty of technical death metal and in-your-face grindcore. Then again, I hate black metal and all of its forms (I can't get past the black metal rasp). Black metal is about the only metal genre that I cannot get into (except for varients of doom which I haven't listened to, and brutal death metal).

So you hate black metal because of its sound? But if people hate certain folk metal bands because they sound like retarded circus music it's not okay? [citation needed]
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 9:29 pm 
 

I just love the mindset of most of the folk metal fans in this thread: we don't like some of the popular examples of this genre, so you're going to tell us why, in the most exaggerated stereotypical, shallow reasons you can think of! Certainly it can't just be because we don't like it. There has to be some other underlying psychological reason as to why. :roll:
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:00 pm 
 

I like happy, mead-swilling folk music, absolutely. Fun shit at renaissance festivals and whatnot. I just think it sounds dumb with distorted powerchords haphazardly thrown in, and with some guy growling over the top. The party atmosphere of that style of folk music just doesn't transliterate into metal very well, I don't think.
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tehfoks
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 3:34 am 
 

Forefather is by far my favorite band. I don't think they like being classified as folk metal, and they sure sound quite different from most of the bands mentioned here, but they definitely have a folk influence, especially in songs like "Miri it is". Steadfast as a whole is one of my favorite metal albums period.

I don't really mind the happy, anthemic, poppy bands like Alestorm, Turisas, etc. They can be fun in the right time and place, even though i agree they're hardly metal, and the term "Folk metal" is somewhat misleading. Oh, except for Korpiklaani though. I hate that band. Terrible.
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Paganbasque
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Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:28 am
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Location: Basque Country
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:03 am 
 

Vitross wrote:
It's quite surprising that so many people speak so negatively on folk metal in this thread. It seems that most people can't stand the bigger bands like Korpiklaani, because their music isn't that serious and often the guitars aren't the most important instrument in songs. It's like for some people metal has to have mega riffs, solos and killing poseurs attitude to be metal. Many people here are death/thrash maniacs, and I can see how this music doesn't suit them. I can also see how people who listen to metal since the 80's would hate folk metal, because it doesn't have those solos and those riffs. After all it's called folk metal so it's obvious that folk instruments are going to be as important as electric guitars. What's odd for me is that Korpiklaani and Finntroll have quite good ratings here, for example Nattfodd by Finntroll has 14 ratings and an overall of 91%. Even their latest release has 88% with 4 ratings, and in this thread I see 80% of people bashing these bands.


What is more surprising(and sometimes annoying) it that most of the people really think that Korpiklaani is all the folk metal you can expect to find, and obviosly this is far from being true.

There is a great degree of variety in the scene when it is about the balance between the guitars and the folk instruments, from the bands who only add a little folk arrangements from to time to time, to the bands who focus the main melodies on folk instruments. Obviously the second group presumably will have less guitars or at least a less complex ones, and will be the ones who are despised by these "true" metalheads. Anyway you cant compare those bands with a thrash/death band because the second one only works with guitars, so it quite logic if they have better guitars, the more instruments you have the less prominece will the guitars have, its common sense.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6316
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:21 am 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
I like happy, mead-swilling folk music, absolutely. Fun shit at renaissance festivals and whatnot. I just think it sounds dumb with distorted powerchords haphazardly thrown in, and with some guy growling over the top. The party atmosphere of that style of folk music just doesn't transliterate into metal very well, I don't think.

Many bands use extreme sounds and harsh vocals despite being quite unextreme in terms of songwriting, yeah. That's definitely a downer. I could get past it when I was a teenager, when a lot of stuff sounded quite different to me.
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talvikki77
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:20 am 
 

Paganbasque wrote:
There is a great degree of variety in the scene when it is about the balance between the guitars and the folk instruments, from the bands who only add a little folk arrangements from to time to time, to the bands who focus the main melodies on folk instruments. Obviously the second group presumably will have less guitars or at least a less complex ones, and will be the ones who are despised by these "true" metalheads. Anyway you cant compare those bands with a thrash/death band because the second one only works with guitars, so it quite logic if they have better guitars, the more instruments you have the less prominece will the guitars have, its common sense.

Yeah, I think it is kind of like trying to compare some other peripheral metal genres to the standard of thrash and death metal, like saying that atmospheric black metal isn't metal because the riffs are fuzzy, or melodic power metal isn't metal because keyboards often carry the melody. Some metal genres focus more on guitar riffs and some less.

Empyreal wrote:
I just love the mindset of most of the folk metal fans in this thread: we don't like some of the popular examples of this genre, so you're going to tell us why, in the most exaggerated stereotypical, shallow reasons you can think of! Certainly it can't just be because we don't like it. There has to be some other underlying psychological reason as to why. :roll:

I can understand that everyone has their opinion and everyone has things they don't like, but with so many people hating on folk metal I think it's worthwhile discussing why. If this thread was called "what's your opinion on death metal?" there would definitely not be so many people saying, "I hate it, it's the worst thing ever." So why so much hate for folk metal? Is it because it's so different from the standard metal genres? Is it because it's become trendy and there are lots of half-assed bands doing it? Is it because lots of people don't like Korpiklaani and generalize that to the rest of the genre?

Oh, and Forefather is awesome. Them, and Falkenbach, are up there as some of my favorite serious folk metal bands. As far as them not wanting to be called folk metal..I think even Ensiferum once said something of the sort :/ Apparently even bands within the genre don't exactly like the folk metal moniker.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 10:55 am 
 

It's true that people probably do see Finntroll and Korpiklaani as the forerunners of the genre, probably because they are the most popular examples. But instead of throwing out strawmen like "you just want it to sound like 80s heavy metal" or "you don't like it because you're trying to be underground," maybe people should either a) just accept that others don't like Finntroll and Korpiklaani and b) show people other, different sounding bands that they might like. ;)
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SleepingStar
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Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:44 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:35 pm 
 

I think the problem for me is the apparent saturation of the genre, I think it all started off well enough and there was some catchy and original output to begin with. But it's all got a bit silly now and gimmicky. Looking at the bigger bands;
Ensiferum - first few albums were fast paced and powerful, latest albums uninspiring and insipid
Korpiklaani - again, can't fault the first three albums which tended to have some variety, now it's a case of releasing identikit albums every year
Turisas - perhaps leaning too far into cheesy power metal territory at times but can't fault them live and have at least released albums sparingly
Moonsorrow - last album was dull and lacked the scale of its predecessors but generally speaking, they're probably the most credible band in the scene
Finntroll - can lay it on a bit too thick with their 'humppa' style and last album was a bit by-the-numbers but are incredible live and been around ages so will give them their dues, probably my favourite of the lot
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