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absurder21
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:51 pm
Posts: 673
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:37 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
Yes.
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Veracs is really my number one enemy, I would bitchslap him in the face so hard. But yeah, I usually really enjoy the long doom songs but I don't like drone much, it's a matter of taste, I guess. If you have the attention span of a 3 years old on pepsi, of course So Long Suckers would be long and boring.

I was going to say, I too am a Reverend Bizarre fanboi and I am OUTRAGED haha Other than Cirith Ungol, I'm not sure how one can say Into the Rectory, even with an average song length of 11 mins has little riff variety. It's pure old school trad doom, so if you don't dig Vitus or Pentagram, you probably won't like RB. I wonder if this dude has even attempted Dopesmoker... But if you want a long doom song that changes a lot and has accessible melodies, try Bongrippers song Worship.

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CF_Mono
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 1404
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:51 pm 
 

Most metalheads probably initially have a problem accepting repetition in either black metal or doom metal. While technical thrash metal and death metal require an appreciation of fast changes and good riffing on it's own, there's another side of metal that's really all about juiced up amps and lots of big huge chords and awesome tone. The idea is that this repetition results in some kind of hypnotism, not monotony. If you're anticipating change listening to Transylvanian Hunger or Dopethrone, you're going to be let down, but if you anticipate build up and internal imagery and a solid groove, then you'll find records like those a lot more rewarding.
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Ancient_Sorrow
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:10 pm
Posts: 2178
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:01 pm 
 

"Overlong" songs can kill any style of music; in fact, overly long songs are inherently a bad thing.

The trouble is, however, that "overly-long" and "extremely long" are different things; a fifteen minute song can have content enough to justify its length, whilst sometimes a six minute song can be overly-long by three minutes. What's more, one person's "hypnotic" song; say, Funeralopolis or Det Som En Gang Var can be over-long to someone else, so there's no agreement on which songs are overly long.

Personally, I'm equally pleased by doom albums with four fifteen minute tracks, as I am with albums with eight six minute ones; the only condition which needs to be placed on it is that it is well done.That is something which doom-metal is no worse at than other sub-genres, as far as I'm concerned; so no - overly long songs don't kill any kind of metal, but they can sure as hell kill individual songs and albums.
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JakeTheSage
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:07 pm
Posts: 7
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:48 pm 
 

Nah. As long as the musician knows when enough is enough, especially in terms of repetition, doom songs seem to work great in long doses.

Overlong albums, on the other hand....that shit can make or break drone.

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RapeTheDead
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:48 pm
Posts: 463
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:27 pm 
 

CF_Mono wrote:
You can't always listen to doom for the riffs though. A lot of it is atmospheric, or is created for the sole purpose of being enveloped in sweet distortion and loudness. That being said a lot of doom is very emotional and dark, not exactly the first thing every metalhead thinks of when they're in the mood for metal.


Heh, those are like the two main characteristics of metal that drew me to it in the first place.

John_Sunlight wrote:
It's ok for black metal to be repetitive and monotonous since those are qualities we black metal fans actually like about it. If this is the case for doom metal fans as well then you guys'll be just fine.


Pretty much this. People tend to think the trademark slow doom dirges have too few ideas; I tend to think songs in general have too many. I like hearing the slow evolution of a riff over the course of a song. Doom is a genre all about worshiping at the altar of the almighty riff (for whom Sabbath is the only prophet of course), so it makes sense that they would explore riffs in such lengthy detail. In a sense, it's some of the purest metal there is.
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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5373
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:36 pm 
 

Since it has been brought up a few times now, Dopethrone is considered particuarly droney and riffless? Since when, other than the shitty Weird Tales that this is catchy and riffing hook filled as any metal album I've heard. I guess the count might be a bit low, but damn, they still change riffs a bunch.
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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2063
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:14 pm 
 

Vintersorrow wrote:
To each his own. I find [Mournful Congregation] very interesting and unique, especially within their subgenre. Music is varied enough to keep you guessing what comes next (rare feat for funeral doom) while maintaining the necessary flow and atmosphere.

I agree. The only thing about them that makes them counterproductive to the argument is that their riffs vary a lot. They are slow, sure, but they aren't redundant.

It's also band to band, even ones that are reasonably close. For instance, I really like Pallbearer (engaging and emotional), but don't like 40 Watt Sun (bore me stiff). Who knows?

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Lord_of_carrion
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:43 pm
Posts: 2
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:29 am 
 

It really depends on the artist and song that makes it dull or exicting. If the song has great riffs and varations to keep me interested, then I would listen to a fifthteen minute song. There are doom songs that are just unappealing to me, but only because the musical arrangement is either too lazy or just tedious.

Doom metal 's signature for long songs what appealed to me in the first place when I was younger. The amazement how the bands could make a ten minute song and still be interesting what I thought made doom meet special. I even sometimes find short doom songs to be less interesting than "overlonged songs". It comes down to your taste of the genre really.

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iAmDisturbed
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 10:31 am
Posts: 497
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:20 pm 
 

When done right, it is divine!
Tell me you didn't enjoy My Dying Bride's The Barghest o' Whitby? Bands like MDB who seem to have a variety of ideas which they never present the same way and add different shades with other instruments can make it work more than your stoner/drone dudes.

I also enjoy Neurosis' drawn out doom moments as in "The Last You'll Know".
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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4680
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:46 am 
 

I really didn't mean what I said as a bad thing at all...
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BottomFeeder1
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:09 am
Posts: 340
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:07 am 
 

hopefully, because when metal is dead it sheds its dead wieght and only the potent survive to create beyond social rewards and peer praise

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novakm
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:52 pm
Posts: 179
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:22 pm 
 

Overlong songs only doom the poor bands (no pun intended). Bands like Candlemass, Doomshine and Scald (to name a few) show that long songs that stay interesting throughout are not only possible but are preferred. Most of the boring doom bands that have the overlong songs described in this thread wouldn't be saved by shaving a few minutes off.

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dystopia4
Veteran

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm
Posts: 3505
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:14 pm 
 

Yup, overlong was definitely the wrong way to phrase it. Nothing has killed doom metal, it's doing quite well actually. Long doom songs can be great and fit the doom sound, sure some bands fuck it up, but that's just how it goes. With every genre comes mediocre bands, and not all bands can pull it off, especially when their songs are so long.
Grave_Wyrm wrote:
It's also band to band, even ones that are reasonably close. For instance, I really like Pallbearer (engaging and emotional), but don't like 40 Watt Sun (bore me stiff). Who knows?

I feel the same way. I like Pallbearer reasonably well (not too big on the vocals, but it doesn't ruin it), but I hate 40 Watt Sun. I thought Warning was largely boring, but 40 Watt are just about the lamest thing ever. I really think they are the Nickleback of doom. They have a fairly accessible formula, they watered down a once potent formula, appeal to the lowest common denominator of the genre and just aren't that imaginative. They don't have any real riffs, the atmosphere is lacking and the vocals are just about the worst thing ever (I don't know how he managed to get 10 times worse in that short period).
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severzhavnost
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
Posts: 723
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:07 am 
 

Raise your hand if you've never looked at your watch after Pentagram's "Burning Saviour" and been surprised that 9 minutes had passed! Length doesn't equal boredom.

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