I think everybody here knows what nsbm is. But I was just wondering: Does it exist a scene like nsbm have? And do you know any bands that are like this?

PS Im not a communist.

Just in advance: NKVD from France isn't communist, like I heard some uninformed people claim, not sure if on this forum though.

A search on this site's lyrical themes gives quite a few results.

Мракобесие call their music 'communistic raw black metal'

I figure someone with the name "iloveblackmetal" would be able to tell us.
Apparently, that's not the case.

The dude is 15, give him a chance.

R.A.B.M. = Red and Anarchist Black Metal
http://www.facebook.com/redanarchistblackmetal
http://www.lastfm.it/group/RABM
http://r-a-b-m.blogspot.it

Euronymous was known to be into politics, and he was a communist. Never made any music about his views.

Jarost Marksa have actual communist lyrics.

Haha, I came into this thread expecting tons of people to start namedropping N.K.V.D. I'm so glad this was the first reply.

That blog is a great place to start; I've been following it for a while. This stuff is essentially a political opposition to NSBM; and "Earth-friendly" bands like Wolves in the Throne Room and the like are often thrown into that mix, whether they preach Communist/ Anarchist/ radical Left themes or not.

Actually, as far as I know his 'communism' was all about being fascinated by stalinist and maoist genocides and such...

How is that different from people who label themselves "national socialists"?

Why do you think holocaust denial exists?

Can you stop arguing??

Iskra! Really raw, red/anarchist crust punk/black metal.

How is that different from people who label themselves "national socialists"?[/quote]
Umm, the groups who glorify holocaust etc., focusing on antihuman aspect of Third Reich/second WW rather than securing future for white people don't label themselves national socialists. Those who do, either acknowledge its vileness, try to justify it, support revisionist theories or, most often, have a mixed opinion of those three variants.

In my opinion; Black Metal is about Elitism not about equality with everybody! Communism is nonsense!

I don't think black metal is about elitism, and for that matter, I don't think any style of metal I have ever heard of (other than maybe NSBM) is all about any form of politics, it's a style of music.

It's possible to have black metal without even having lyrics or vocals and there are black metal bands that are mostly without vocals like DarkSpace and most black metal bands don't discuss politics much or at all.

Black metal is about a way of playing music, it's not about any form of elitism or politics.

Also, one thing black metal usually IS about thematically is evil, and as Stalin showed, Communism at it's worst can be just as bad as National Socialism, so I could certainly imagine a very "evil" oriented Stalinist Black Metal band.

I'd be interested in hearing one.

It's called "discussion" and it's going to happen with every single thread you create. Learn to deal with it.

Yeah, I know it too (I think I downloaded some Panopticon from there) BUT it does NOT make those bands Communist Black Metal.

God forbid people grow up and move beyond such incredibly dated 2nd wave BM aesthetics. It's not like BM was ever originally about "being elitist" anyway... and I don't understand why the "rules" of a bunch of johnny-come-lately 2nd wavers means means much to anyone with a brain past the age of 18, especially when a lot of that "elitism" is entirely manufactured crap cooked up by people like Euronymous, a man who would exploit another probably very dysfunctional and depressed man's suicide for the benefit of his own retarded image.

Ew.

The lack of John_Sunlight's presence here leads me to somewhat shamefully suspect he is behind all of this! Why, if there were ever to be a Weishaupt amongst us it'd certainly be he says I!

Hey! I can't hang out on the forum all the time.

Anyway, I've looked into this. There are a handful of interesting things on that RABM blog, but most are not strictly black metal or strictly communist.

As mentioned, Mrakobesie and Jarost Marksa are the only ones with real releases and are listend on MA. There is also a band called Katyusha which isn't on the archives with a black metal demo available on that blog. From what I've found, these are the only bands around there with any internet presense or available music that are definitely black metal and definitely communist. Jarost Marksa is excellent black metal, a "The cold earth slept below" meets "Pure black energy" (I think so, anyway). The others are ok, but not my cup-o-tea. That said, I've read Jarost Marksa's lyrics and they sound like they have an anarchist vibe to me, and the band has member connections in the anarchist scene, so even they could probably stand to be a bit more communist.

Bonus repost of a classic (not entirely serious) post:

It's a bit superficial to say that communism harmonizes with black metal because it wants to overthrow established structures. Black metal wants to kill God but replaces him with Satan, Odin etc., not because God is oppressive but because he's perceived as pathetic compared to more ancient powers. Black metal seems really more reactionary than revolutionary to me. It stands in opposition to modernity and idealizes values of past (pre-modern). There's also an aspect of a war-like mentality which to me seems very much like the Hobbesian worldview. I do not think black metal stands in contradiction with communism (it's not like black metal needs the division of labor or something) but I hardly find it to resonate with each other. Countless nationalist black metal enthusiasts might be an indication.

Oh and until proven otherwise to me I stand by my assessment that politically influenced black metal is shit.

Statements like this baffle me. Black metal is not "about" any one thing, not least of all because the term black metal describes musical and not lyrical attributes. Even if we're just describing lyrics, black metal lyrics have covered any conceivable subject. When there are lyrics from satanist, pagan, Christian, atheist, communist, NS, anarchist, etc. perspectives (not to mention lyrics about elves or vampires or UFOs, or ancient history, or depression, or relationships, or...) how can anyone make such blanket statements as to what the music is "about"? This site lists 22,593 black metal bands - a plurality of aesthetic stances is a given.

Just saying, a good share of black metal is related to satanism, paganism or other subjects which are about individualism, the 'Faustian' Spirit, the own will, etc. Communism is the complete opposite to that: since everyone gets the very same from the mother State (cause Communism never get pass over the revolution- de facto government phase where every aspect of your life is controlled), you're reduced to a plain number. I guess that's why there are almost 0 black metal bands covering such themes.

^ Well... Lyrical themes don't define a musical style. All black metal bands aren't satanistic. Obviously the ones which are satanistic aren't likely to be communists, but nothing in the world prevents communists from playing black metal (and showing it in their lyrics)...

I think it's more about what kind of mindset allows one to create meaningful art of a certain style. Like if you find splatter movies disgusting you aren't really qualified to make gore metal and such. Likewise, if you make black metal about christian love you kind of missed the point and the product will not be proper black metal.



Same goes for black metal that wants to be about proletarian revolution IMO. You can make grindcore about lynching factory owners but not black metal.

This is honestly one of the most absurd things I've ever read on this forum. Musical classification, in the most objective sense, deals with elements of composition and only that. Lyrics only pertain to it by association, with most of the common, archetypical lyrical themes in a genre being arbitrarily decided by the genre's primogenitors (and then passed down to whomever picks up the torch after them), and it's downright stupid to try to claim that the overall meaning of whatever words are in the lyrics have a tangible effect on the music. Using this logic, I could switch around a few words in a song like "Incipit Satan" and make it a totally different genre.

I wasn't even talking about lyrics, dude. Music is an intuitive, emotional, non-rational form of expression, but it is always an expression of the mind of the artist. You can't draw a strict line between the part of the mind that creates musical forms and the part that creates lyrics, and you can expect of good music that the ideas expressed in the lyrics (if present) in some way harmonize with the songwriting, even if only as a side-effect of the creative process.

I can't believe this even has to be said.

Sure you can make quality black metal being inspired by the relationship of the individual and nature and then slap completely unrelated communist lyrics on it, but why the hell should someone do that?

Why are you conflating communism with nazism? They're not the same thing.



I disagree. Black Metal, whilst technically defined as a musical style without reference to content, has been built on anti-religious foundations, and so the point that the poster was trying to make, that christian BM is bizarre, is correct. Christian black metal is an oxymoron.

However, I don't think it follows that communist BM is an oxymoron. It's a bit odd, when you consider the misanthropy that is intrinsic to a lot of black metal and that communism is a community-centric (and therefore social rather than anti-social) idea.

And how would one verify that a piece of music (meaning an arrangement of sounds in time) "harmonizes" with lyrics about, say, communism, or Satan, or orcs? For instance, do you believe you can verify that the riffs in Burzum's "War" are Varg's attempt to translate into music the image of "crying moms"? And could you verify that a piece of "communist black metal" was in fact inspired by nature and not communism? Or could it be that music and poetry are separate domains, the former deeply abstract and rooted in pitch and time interval relations, unable to translate someone's opinions about deciduous trees or Nietzche?




If it is defined as a musical style, without reference to non-musical content, then of course there is no way that it has been built on inherently non-musical opinions regarding religion or anything else. Music has an independent existence - it is not a vehicle for lyrics.

First you said music is intuitive, emotional and non-rational form of expression, but then you seem to imply that communistic ideas simply can't be manifested as black metal. Why is that? For example, nature has inspired a vast group of artists throughout the times, most of which haven't played black metal. Why wouldn't various arbitrary sources be able to inspire black metal?


He isn't, he just asked if there's a similar scene related to communism as there is to ns.

To answer that question, no, there is not a comparable scene on any meaningful scale.

What? How is that relevant?

How can a listener determine that the music (not the lyric) was inspired by "the relationship of the individual and nature" and not by Marx? What does the difference sound like?

Because genres emerge historically to satisfy specific expressive needs, and I find that in the case of black metal the essential themes can be pinpointed relatively narrowly.


I guess you'd just get bad music out of the equation since there would be, according to how I see it, a discrepancy between the medium and what one tries to express, leading to inadequacy of the product. As I said: Until proven to me otherwise.

Marx wrote about the relationship of the individual and nature.

I can sort of understand why you'd want to narrow a genre down to certain lyrical themes (while I don't really agree), but I can't understand why you'd want to insist that black metal is always inspired by certain themes. You simply can't know what inspired the music only by listening to it.

Black metal wants a revolt against the modern world, communism wants a revolt against rich people.