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Kveldulfr
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 2451
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:58 pm 
 

Well, the publicists are not the band and I'm not sure if the Metallica guys wants to be 'rockstars' (like the 70's definition). There won't be another Elvis, Lennon, Hendrix or Michael Jackson anyway. No one gives a shit.

I'm not a Metallica fan by ANY means (I wasn't one in the 80's, let alone now), but the guys are probably the biggest metal force alive and that has nothing to do with quality, it has to do with fanbase, $$ of sold albums/concerts/merch/etc. Not even Maiden has reached the numbers that Metallica has done. Also, 'nobody outside Metallica's fanbase or potential fanbase of metal fans'? that's a huge number of people. Have you ever seen in the last 20-25 years a Metallica gig not fully packed? Death Magnetic debuted #1 in Billboard with 500.000 copies sold in 3 days. Who can claim that can sell that much in the metal universe nowadays? Maiden's The Final Frontier debuted in the same chart with 63.000 copies sold.

Anyway, most of those rock dinosaurs that are still huge and sell well has not been relevant in decades. They just live from their legacy and Metallica is not that different.
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Frank Booth
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
Posts: 255
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:01 pm 
 

Turner wrote:
not that it's metal, but steve lukather has said a couple of times (to paraphrase, exaggerate, etc) that he deserves credit for half the guitar riffs and licks written during the 80s, haha


That isn't entirely untrue, as the man is RIDICULOUSLY prolific even by session standards.

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Orpheus_Hierophant
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:57 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:41 pm 
 

Spiner202 wrote:

Despite the fact that Manowar is hugely influential and (as mentioned by somebody else) Joey is ridiculous about the way he views the band, that's part of their whole schtick. It always amazes me that people don't understand that. They never break character because otherwise their image doesn't work as well.


I would really dispute the extent of their influence to be honest. I hear a small, vague echo of what they tried to do in Viking era Bathory, who did it way better. Just because they were (and are) popular, I cant think of anyone who picked up on what they were ddoing

On the subject of Anvil, I remember being at shows of theirs at a shitty dive bar in south etobicoke (Toronto) when I was 15. I think they were opening for the karaoke machine.... All kidding aside though, it was pathetic. I went because that shithole didnt care how old I was, and was walking distance from my house

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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1252
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:44 am 
 

Orpheus_Hierophant wrote:
Spiner202 wrote:
On the subject of Anvil, I remember being at shows of theirs at a shitty dive bar in south etobicoke (Toronto) when I was 15. I think they were opening for the karaoke machine.... All kidding aside though, it was pathetic. I went because that shithole didnt care how old I was, and was walking distance from my house


hahahaha! i laughed at this because i think anvil is fucking awful and deserved to stay unknown.

and frank: true, i don't mean he wasn't influential, i mean he overstated his own importance etc

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Ancient_Sorrow
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:10 pm
Posts: 2214
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:54 am 
 

Nobody said Watain yet?

I enjoy Watain's music, but I'm rather sceptical of their status as the saviours of black-metal as a genre, I'm very certain it was doing reasonably well without them. They're more or less the pinnacle of black-metal commercially, but I'm fairly sure that the genre itself wouldn't be very different without them.

Interestingly, I've always viewed Watain as what Von would have become if they had released a few albums.
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Awblaster
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:07 pm
Posts: 474
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:08 pm 
 

Man Must Die. They put out a couple of albums, did a couple of decent-sized opening slots on tours, and then proceed to not do anything for a few years, and then do this: http://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/manmustdie

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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 920
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:27 pm 
 

Orpheus_Hierophant wrote:
Spiner202 wrote:

Despite the fact that Manowar is hugely influential and (as mentioned by somebody else) Joey is ridiculous about the way he views the band, that's part of their whole schtick. It always amazes me that people don't understand that. They never break character because otherwise their image doesn't work as well.


I would really dispute the extent of their influence to be honest. I hear a small, vague echo of what they tried to do in Viking era Bathory, who did it way better.


I think a lot of people would disagree with that. I personally don't think it's just a small, vague echo. And I think Bathory couldn't even come close to doing it as well, much less doing it "better".

Orpheus_Hierophant wrote:
Just because they were (and are) popular, I cant think of anyone who picked up on what they were ddoing


In what ways, you mean? Copying the sound and the whole thing? Certainly, straight Manowar-worship would be an indicator of influence but it is not the ultimate measure of influence, IMO.

Bands like Motorhead and Iron Maiden may not have as many copycats as Bathory either, but they're certainly more influential.

Having witnessed Manowar's beginnings at the time, I personally think they were pioneers. They're a great second-tier band, who brilliantly melded a bunch of elite influences to create something pretty cool at the time. Unfortunately for them, they could never outdo Maiden in the epic department, nor could they be as high-octane as Priest. When your albums have to compete in the same bracket as Screaming For Vengeance, Piece of Mind, Defenders of the Faith and Powerslave... you're gonna lose, no matter what.

I don't really have anything nice to say about Bathory. But that dude, who couldn't even play properly in the studio, understandably shied away from live gigs and holds the record for most shitty albums perpetually available in used record shops back in the days, must be laughing his ass off in his grave at how important some people think he was.
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AlexMaiden
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:49 am
Posts: 90
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:03 pm 
 

Riffs wrote:
Orpheus_Hierophant wrote:

When your albums have to compete in the same bracket as Screaming For Vengeance, Piece of Mind, Defenders of the Faith and Powerslave... you're gonna lose, no matter what.


With all do respect, but I find extremely debatable the allegation that the first 4 Manowar albums cannot compete with Screaming For Vengeance and/or Defenders Of The Faith...

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Desperta_Ferro
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:45 am
Posts: 608
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:36 pm 
 

Manowar first four only have one flaw: production.
And come on, no Manowar worship-bands? have you guys been browsing the german power metal bands?

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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 920
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:55 pm 
 

AlexMaiden wrote:
With all do respect, but I find extremely debatable the allegation that the first 4 Manowar albums cannot compete with Screaming For Vengeance and/or Defenders Of The Faith...


Duly noted and all. But you'll find that for a lot of folks, not many albums can compete with SFV or DotF, period.

That's all on the subjective level, though, which is besides the point. I'm sure there's a guy out there who thinks Europe can compete with Judas Priest too. And I've learned to ignore such nonsense.

What matters is that as far as a significant impact, Iron Maiden became king of the lyrical epic, and Judas Priest became synonymous with anthems about Heavy Metal, fucking (ironically, men) and driving really fast while telling your parents to go fuck themselves. We're talking about massive albums that changed the landscape and the two bands who, more than anyone else, legitimized metal as an arena-worthy cultural, critical and commercial phenomenon that influenced thousands of fans and musicians.

Meanwhile, Manowar was struggling in small venues and their two sides (epic and fast life) were already being done better by these two bands. I love those first four albums to death but in the big picture, Priest and Maiden were at a whole different level and had a stranglehold on the aspects of metal Manowar was celebrating. It's too bad, I think Manowar had it in them but the scene was changing really fast back then and they kind lost some steam at a crucial moment.
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Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 920
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:00 pm 
 

Desperta_Ferro wrote:
Manowar first four only have one flaw: production.


And fillers.

And flat drumming.

Those two things hindered them more than production, IMO.
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mjollnir wrote:
Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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Ba Zuulizx Karoth
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:19 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:32 pm 
 

Dio-era Black Sabbath for me. It insistson its self. People may hate me for this, but, honestly, its not that good. Many people only started liking it after his passing. Great guy. Just seems WAAAYYY too overrated.

Metallica of course. New Iron Maiden anyone? Darkthrones Transilvanian Hunger. Deathspell Omega. Negira Bunget, or whatever their called. Venom? Its not That great. Megadeth, Megadeth, a thoysand time Megadeth. Love Burzums Filosofem, but unbiasedly, its only good, not amazing.

Just because its old does not make it a classic!

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TheUglySoldier
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 1679
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:43 pm 
 

Ba Zuulizx Karoth wrote:
Dio-era Black Sabbath for me. It insistson its self. People may hate me for this, but, honestly, its not that good. Many people only started liking it after his passing. Great guy. Just seems WAAAYYY too overrated.


Even as a fan, I can agree with this to an extent. Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules are both great, but Dehumanizer is pretty average - not bad, but average - it isn't the type of album you sit down and listen to. The Devil You Know didn't get my interest. Regardless, Ozzy era is much more important, consistent and overall better.

I'm not sure about the comment about after his passing, or maybe I just used to hang out on too many power metal forums where it seemed to be the consensus that the real Sabbath started with Dio.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:33 pm 
 

Ba Zuulizx Karoth wrote:
Dio-era Black Sabbath for me. It insistson its self. People may hate me for this, but, honestly, its not that good. Many people only started liking it after his passing. Great guy. Just seems WAAAYYY too overrated.


People liked Dio before his death and the records he did with Sabbath were already classics; you're confusing this topic with 'bands you personally don't like as much.'
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godsonsafari
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:03 am
Posts: 689
Location: Sparty's Land Grant University, USA
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:45 pm 
 

Quote:
Well, the publicists are not the band and I'm not sure if the Metallica guys wants to be 'rockstars' (like the 70's definition). There won't be another Elvis, Lennon, Hendrix or Michael Jackson anyway. No one gives a shit.


http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... e-20090114

Still, Hetfield had modest goals: "When someone says Led Zeppelin, people know what that is," he explained. "When someone says Metallica, hopefully they'd know what that is, what it means. That was the goal."

So clearly that's the kind of penetration they sought after. Did they achieve it? Argurable.

Quote:
I'm not a Metallica fan by ANY means (I wasn't one in the 80's, let alone now), but the guys are probably the biggest metal force alive and that has nothing to do with quality, it has to do with fanbase, $$ of sold albums/concerts/merch/etc. Not even Maiden has reached the numbers that Metallica has done. Also, 'nobody outside Metallica's fanbase or potential fanbase of metal fans'? that's a huge number of people. Have you ever seen in the last 20-25 years a Metallica gig not fully packed? Death Magnetic debuted #1 in Billboard with 500.000 copies sold in 3 days. Who can claim that can sell that much in the metal universe nowadays? Maiden's The Final Frontier debuted in the same chart with 63.000 copies sold.


I'm not questioning whether they are the biggest "metal force". I don't think that can be reasonably denied. What I argue is that they aspired beyond being that. I don't think they reached that level. Oh, they got far. They made a lot of money. I don't think they became what they sought out to be or believed they were either commercially or artistically.

Quote:
Anyway, most of those rock dinosaurs that are still huge and sell well has not been relevant in decades. They just live from their legacy and Metallica is not that different.


Isn't that true for just about any band likely to end up here in this thread? Manowar lives off their relevance from the 80s for godsakes.
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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 920
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:54 am 
 

godsonsafari wrote:

I'm not questioning whether they are the biggest "metal force". I don't think that can be reasonably denied. What I argue is that they aspired beyond being that. I don't think they reached that level. Oh, they got far. They made a lot of money. I don't think they became what they sought out to be or believed they were either commercially or artistically.


I don't know what measure of nitpicking you utilize. Metallica are going down as the biggest Metal band of all times and one of the most successful rock band of all times.

There's no way they could be more successful unless they could shoot rainbows out of their asses or heal Parkinson's disease by lay of hands.

They wanted to be recognizable the way Led Zeppelin are?

They totally succeeded.
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Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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BastardHead
Magic Mike

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 5476
Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:36 am 
 

Ba Zuulizx Karoth wrote:
Dio-era Black Sabbath for me. It insistson its self. People may hate me for this, but, honestly, its not that good. Many people only started liking it after his passing. Great guy. Just seems WAAAYYY too overrated.

Metallica of course. New Iron Maiden anyone? Darkthrones Transilvanian Hunger. Deathspell Omega. Negira Bunget, or whatever their called. Venom? Its not That great. Megadeth, Megadeth, a thoysand time Megadeth. Love Burzums Filosofem, but unbiasedly, its only good, not amazing.

Just because its old does not make it a classic!


I want to print out this post and wipe my ass with it.

For real, Dio was worshipped well before his passing, and to think otherwise really implies that you simply weren't much into metal before he died, otherwise you'd realize that one of the most bafflingly incorrect statements ever uttered on this forum. You personally don't like them that much? Absolutely fair enough, not everybody has the same taste, but to say they weren't important or that people didn't care until Dio died is just utterly insane.

As for the rest of that, it just comes off as petty shitting about not liking what are normally considered classics. Congratulations, I think the Keepers of the Seven Keys albums suck but I'm not going to sit here and say that the band overstated their importance because of them (the topic of the thread, mind you) or that the fandom in general holds them in too high of a regard, because they are incredibly influential and important to their scene. Just like literally every other band you mentioned.
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Atrocious_Mutilation
KITTY SO PUFFY

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:51 am
Posts: 1687
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:47 am 
 

Ba Zuulizx Karoth wrote:
Dio-era Black Sabbath for me. It insistson its self. People may hate me for this, but, honestly, its not that good. Many people only started liking it after his passing. Great guy. Just seems WAAAYYY too overrated.


Is it possible for an opinion to be so wrong that it's a bannable offense?
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LordTool
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:15 am
Posts: 95
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:36 am 
 

Riffs wrote:
Orpheus_Hierophant wrote:
They're a great second-tier band, who brilliantly melded a bunch of elite influences to create something pretty cool at the time. Unfortunately for them, they could never outdo Maiden in the epic department, nor could they be as high-octane as Priest.


They pioneered the actual epic metal, stomping drums/riffs, "KILLING IN BATTLE" sound as later heard in Bathory. They just fell flat because even their good albums were half-full of fillers.

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Panflute
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:11 am
Posts: 452
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:42 am 
 

Liturgy. Making extremely mediocre music while basically claiming to have reinvented black metal through pseudo-academic blabbering doesn't really add to your credibility.
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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1252
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:49 am 
 

Ba Zuulizx Karoth wrote:
Dio-era Black Sabbath for me. It insistson its self. People may hate me for this, but, honestly, its not that good. Many people only started liking it after his passing. Great guy. Just seems WAAAYYY too overrated.

Metallica of course. New Iron Maiden anyone? Darkthrones Transilvanian Hunger. Deathspell Omega. Negira Bunget, or whatever their called. Venom? Its not That great. Megadeth, Megadeth, a thoysand time Megadeth. Love Burzums Filosofem, but unbiasedly, its only good, not amazing.

Just because its old does not make it a classic!


think you might have missed the point of the thread, dude.
wasn't "bands you think are overrated" - it was "bands that overestimated their importance"... ie, bands that said "we're fucking great and influential and we reshaped the musical landscape"... but actually didn't.

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Kveldulfr
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 2451
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:22 am 
 

Ancient_Sorrow wrote:
Nobody said Watain yet?

I enjoy Watain's music, but I'm rather sceptical of their status as the saviours of black-metal as a genre, I'm very certain it was doing reasonably well without them. They're more or less the pinnacle of black-metal commercially, but I'm fairly sure that the genre itself wouldn't be very different without them.

Interestingly, I've always viewed Watain as what Von would have become if they had released a few albums.


You're right. Not only their overestimate their place in metal, but also are arrogant pricks in every possible aspect. I, for instance, don't hear anything entirely new in their music, as well as I haven't heard bands taking straight up elements from them. It's pretty commercial oriented bm in fact, which might sound kinda contradictory with their uber kvlt posture. It's like Dimmu Borgir claiming to be the saviours of black metal around PEM was out, only cause it sold well and thay had the best costumes (which I think it had some degree of novelty value).
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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 1609
Location: France
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:43 am 
 

BastardHead wrote:
Ba Zuulizx Karoth wrote:
Dio-era Black Sabbath for me. It insistson its self. People may hate me for this, but, honestly, its not that good. Many people only started liking it after his passing. Great guy. Just seems WAAAYYY too overrated.

Metallica of course. New Iron Maiden anyone? Darkthrones Transilvanian Hunger. Deathspell Omega. Negira Bunget, or whatever their called. Venom? Its not That great. Megadeth, Megadeth, a thoysand time Megadeth. Love Burzums Filosofem, but unbiasedly, its only good, not amazing.

Just because its old does not make it a classic!


I want to print out this post and wipe my ass with it.

+1. Now all we need is toilet paper resilient enough to come out of the printer in one piece.

And yeah, a solid third of the suggestions in this thread missed the point of the OP and just went with "overrated because I don't like them" instead, which is sad, but this one definitely takes the cake.
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MeltedFace
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:29 am
Posts: 442
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:08 am 
 

Turner wrote:
Ba Zuulizx Karoth wrote:
Dio-era Black Sabbath for me. It insistson its self. People may hate me for this, but, honestly, its not that good. Many people only started liking it after his passing. Great guy. Just seems WAAAYYY too overrated.

Metallica of course. New Iron Maiden anyone? Darkthrones Transilvanian Hunger. Deathspell Omega. Negira Bunget, or whatever their called. Venom? Its not That great. Megadeth, Megadeth, a thoysand time Megadeth. Love Burzums Filosofem, but unbiasedly, its only good, not amazing.

Just because its old does not make it a classic!


think you might have missed the point of the thread, dude.
wasn't "bands you think are overrated" - it was "bands that overestimated their importance"... ie, bands that said "we're fucking great and influential and we reshaped the musical landscape"... but actually didn't.


I think he missed the point as well, especially when it comes to Metallica. Even though they might not influence most of the bands that a lot of this board listens to, their overall pop culture influence is undeniable. You could ask any popular band that's on the radio, who their biggest musical influences are (I'm talking the really bad bands, Nickleback, Disturbed, Buckcherry, etc) and they'll ALL say they were huge "Metalheards" who listened to the "Enter Sandman" and the rest of the Black Album until it wore out. Obviously many of us are in huge disagreement with them having influence on what we listen to, but like it or not, they changed the popular music landscape as we know it.

I remember a few years ago, when for some ridiculous reason, Linkin Park won a Grammy. The lead singer went through his normal thank yous, and then sent a big thank you out to Metallica. The camera cut to Hetfield at that point, and the extreme look of discomfort on his face was pure awesomeness.


To add to the discussion, I think Yngwie Malmsteen overestimates his influence as well. He's quite obviously one of the most self-absorbed musicians of all time, but if you played a song by any band for him, Malmsteen would tell you how he influenced that specific song. He is seriously that smug.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:22 pm 
 

MeltedFace wrote:
To add to the discussion, I think Yngwie Malmsteen overestimates his influence as well. He's quite obviously one of the most self-absorbed musicians of all time, but if you played a song by any band for him, Malmsteen would tell you how he influenced that specific song. He is seriously that smug.


Malmsteen, on Master of Puppets:

"That's Metallica -- I love it! This is maybe the second or third time I've heard this song, and the first time I've heard the live version. My old drummer and keyboardist liked Metallica a lot, and they played this song around the time I was recording Odeyssey (1988). I liked it then and I like it now.

Of all the bands that play this type of music, Metallica's the best. James (Hetfield) sings better than all the other vocalists, and Lars (Ulrich) is a great drummer. I feel some sort of connection with them. I think the band heard some of my eary demos, which sounded something like this. (Malmsteen demos first surfaced on college radio stations in Northern California, where Metallica is based) I'm not saying I influnced them, but maybe I did. Overall, the band has a great sound. But I think the lead guitar player (Kirk Hammett) is not very good. He can play fast and is pretty good at it. But hi s choice of notes and sence of pitch are very bad. I don't think that he plays with musicality, or plays in tune. Rather than lifting the song, his solo seems to be the anticlimax."


http://www.angelfire.com/musicals/zimi/ ... rates.html

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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:50 pm 
 

No one's going to debate the fact that Malmsteen is quite possibly the most self-absorbed person in rock and metal, but he's also one of those people whose influence and importance cannot be overstated. Ask anyone with a shred-based playing style about their influences and they'll most likely have Malmsteen at the top of the list; on the off-chance that they don't, they will list someone heavily influenced by him. He's a total fucking prick, yeah, but even insinuating that he inflates his own importance is borderline factually wrong.

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godsonsafari
Metalhead

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Location: Sparty's Land Grant University, USA
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:44 pm 
 

Quote:
Liturgy. Making extremely mediocre music while basically claiming to have reinvented black metal through pseudo-academic blabbering doesn't really add to your credibility.


How could I have missed this one? Jeez.
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Frank Booth
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:46 pm 
 

godsonsafari wrote:
Quote:
Liturgy. Making extremely mediocre music while basically claiming to have reinvented black metal through pseudo-academic blabbering doesn't really add to your credibility.


How could I have missed this one? Jeez.


Fuck Hunter. I know multiple people who have met him, and they've all said the same thing about him: stuck-up, pretentious, self-aggrandizing little twat who always has to make the discussion about him. I've heard people compare him to an internet asspie, and from the sound of things, it doesn't seem like an off label.

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TheUglySoldier
Metalhead

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 3:44 am
Posts: 1679
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:28 pm 
 

Hunter reminds me of the kinda guys who take an entry-level philosophy course, barely pass, and spend the rest of their life talking about it without so much as picking up another philosophy book in their life, but probably have Decartes in their list of favorite writers or something.

I'm surprised he wasn't mentioned earlier (the rest of the band just look embarrassed in interviews), although I guess we all tried to forget Liturgy ever happened.

Also, his manifesto is hilaribad.
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Riffs
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:12 am 
 

The amazing thing about Liturgy is how they successfully combine every awful aspect of the genre and crank it to 11. And the tragedy is how they receive critical acclaim in some circles.

Liturgy alone justifies downloading music before buying. And every person who ever favorably reviewed this stuff should be nailed to a wall by their scrotum, upside down.
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henkkjelle
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:17 pm 
 

Is Liturgy just a love or hate band? Or are they just really really bad? I don't know them, but I kinda want to listen to them now. I just have to remind myself to first listen to the music before watching a interview with someone called "Hunter Hunt Hendrix".
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Napero
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:39 pm 
 

Let's leave Ba Zuulizx Karoth alone. He may be a br00tal deathcore kid, or simply brought up in a barrel in the hen-house attic, but he has the right to his opinions. They are goofy, and do not really fit the subject by any stretch of imagination, so please ignore them rather than make a scene.

Thank you.
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Desperta_Ferro
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:53 pm 
 

Riffs wrote:
Desperta_Ferro wrote:
Those two things hindered them more than production, IMO.


haha, you are right, there are fillers and the drumming is far from the best ever. But still, I believe that a large portion of metal fans discarded them just because of their barechestedness. An injustice.

I fucking hate Liturgy, by the way, I don't want to throw the infamous "H" word around... but it is what it is.

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IanThrash
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:56 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:37 pm 
 

Riffs wrote:
I don't really have anything nice to say about Bathory. But that dude, who couldn't even play properly in the studio, understandably shied away from live gigs and holds the record for most shitty albums perpetually available in used record shops back in the days, must be laughing his ass off in his grave at how important some people think he was.



No. You didnt just say THAT. Bathory influenced every black metal band 900% more than Venom (c´mon...besides the name of the genre what did they gave musically?) and most of modern melodic/folk/viking metal bands. Seriously this comment left me disconcerted, i thought Quorthon´s god like status was already a universal law.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:37 am 
 

IanThrash wrote:
No. You didnt just say THAT. Bathory influenced every black metal band 900% more than Venom (c´mon...besides the name of the genre what did they gave musically?) and most of modern melodic/folk/viking metal bands. Seriously this comment left me disconcerted, i thought Quorthon´s god like status was already a universal law.


I know, I know. It has come to the point where I almost feel guilty when I say it. But it feels so good :p

And the worse thing is I know how influential the band is supposed to be but whenever I give a listen, all I hear is really boring, awful songs that aren't perform anywhere near a professional level. But then again, I can't think of many bands who claim Bathory as a significant influence that I find interesting.

Maybe someone should recommend kickass Bathory songs, if such a thing exists.
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Veracs
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:43 am 
 

Manoshit have nothing on Bathory. The weakest song off of Hammerheart has more emotion and power than anything Loud bass man and those loincloth wearing idiots could ever devise if they even had twenty more years to suck the life out of heavy metal. Other than the already prevalent image of leather and the over the top image that Manowar had usurped, there are very few bands that actually sound like the first four Manowar albums there influence is entirely limited to a handful of bands like Ironsword who live to ape their awful songs.
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IanThrash
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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:56 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:53 am 
 

Riffs wrote:
IanThrash wrote:
No. You didnt just say THAT. Bathory influenced every black metal band 900% more than Venom (c´mon...besides the name of the genre what did they gave musically?) and most of modern melodic/folk/viking metal bands. Seriously this comment left me disconcerted, i thought Quorthon´s god like status was already a universal law.


I know, I know. It has come to the point where I almost feel guilty when I say it. But it feels so good :p

And the worse thing is I know how influential the band is supposed to be but whenever I give a listen, all I hear is really boring, awful songs that aren't perform anywhere near a professional level. But then again, I can't think of many bands who claim Bathory as a significant influence that I find interesting.

Maybe someone should recommend kickass Bathory songs, if such a thing exists.



I think that musically Bathory had the biggest influence on black metal. Early Bathory (82-87) pretty much had all the elements that later guys like Varg and Euronymous would exploit to define what we recognize as black metal. They had the lyrics, the grim witch vocals, the guitar sound...Venom was great, but when i listen their early stuff i get a satanic version of Motorhead (arguably one of the most influential bands ever) their impact on bm its undeniable, but not as big as Quorthon´s imo.

Im a bit of a fanboy for Bathory but Nordland I and Blood on Ice are full of top notch songs, anyway, i can see why you dislike Bathory...the poor production on their more melodic and intrincated folk influenced songs, lessens the quality of the final product. Also Tomas vocals may seem weak at first.
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ancientorder
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:38 am
Posts: 259
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:09 am 
 

Veracs wrote:
Manoshit have nothing on Bathory.

Not true. He was influenced by Into Glory Ride in particular. He did mention it in few interviews and the influence can clearly be heard on Blood Fire Death and Twilight of the Gods.

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Veracs
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:26 am 
 

http://www.anus.com/metal/about/interviews/quorthon/

He gave a rather nebulous answer as to Manowar's "influence" on his work, he said that he took cues from the lyrics but also said to an extent he was influenced by Viking culture and had he lived elsewhere in the world would've written about the warrior culture in that respective country. The only Manowar influence may have vaguely been the lyrics, but according to that interview and whatever other scattered brained interviews exist there is hardly any evidence for the Manowar influence claim apart from the fact Quorthon said his session drummer at the time loved the band.
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Malignanthrone wrote:

Thing is, Suicide Silence actually are more sonically massive than a good 95% of all the death metal bands in the Archives! Not metal, sure, but definitely a lot more brutal.

Under_Starmere wrote:
Manowar aren't the Kings of Metal. They're pretenders to a throne that doesn't exist.!

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Subrick
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 5855
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:54 am 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
Is Liturgy just a love or hate band? Or are they just really really bad? I don't know them, but I kinda want to listen to them now. I just have to remind myself to first listen to the music before watching a interview with someone called "Hunter Hunt Hendrix".


Really lame post-black metal with noise elements that features one of the most pretentious douchebags I've ever listened to. Even his name reeks of self righteousness. I tried reading his "transcendental black metal" thing and I couldn't get past 10 lines. Not only is it loaded with sesquipedalian language that only serves to bloat the essay far beyond what its contents should really add up to, but it's completely incomprehensible and impossible to follow. I mean, look at this picture that's included at the end of the first part of the writing.

Image

Do you have any clue what this means? I sure as hell don't.
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