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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 1550
Location: France
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:00 pm 
 

My feelings regarding this news are rather neutral. I really enjoy some Toxik, but I wasn't exactly craving for more. Also, I'm on the fence (haha) between the wildly optimistic and the stone-cold cynical regarding the likeliness of a come-back album meeting expectations (that's a big step for me, I used to be firmly in the latter camp). So yeah. Is it necessary? No. Can it be good? Maybe. We'll see.

Metal_Detector wrote:
Think This [is] more like Proggy/techy USPM than thrash like World Circus or similar tech/thrash bands like Realm (Endless War). The vocal performance and songwriting lead in a more progressive direction, even if their roots are in thrash.

Now, this is more like it. I quite like that album, albeit nowhere near as much as some here, but it couldn't be a thrash album if it's life and those of a hundred puppies depended on it. My personal experience of Toxik's music was that I bought 'Think This' a million years ago, and although I certainly liked it, I wasn't really sure what to make of it. It wasn't every day I stumbled upon a glam/prog/speed hybrid back then (and this hasn't changed to this day).

On the one hand, Toxik's ties with a band like Skid Row and Josh Christian's haircut both made sense, as a lot of aspects of the album were screaming "BACKGROUND TO YOUR WORKOUT, BABY!", including the whole concept, the homo-erotically "muscular" yet objectively neutered production job (big fat Toys 'R Us-sounding snare and double-bass drums > clean vocals > biteless mediums-über-alles compressed rhythm guitar tone > the rest), the "laugh all you want now, but wait until you end up loving the song I introduce and consequently have to endure me each fucking time you listen to it!" goofy TV samples, the Weiki-level embarrassing ballad, a number of solos, and some high-pitched sexy-in-a-Cherry-Pie-way vocal vibratos & group hugs in back-up vocal form, notably.

On the other hand, the fact that they saluted a bunch of thrash and speed bands in the liner notes also made sense, as there are plenty of songs and moments on this album that are more akin to ambitious, no-holds-barred power/speed songwriting wise, with some technical thrash influence and a complex, weird-as-fuck yet very entertaining approach to arrangements. Stuff like "Spontaneous", "In God", the title track, "Shotgun Logic" or "Technical Arrogance", for the most part. In that sense, the album has more to do with an odd mixture of classic-era Agent Steel and mid-period Voivoid than it does Cinderella, for sure. But does it make it thrash in and of itself? Fuck no.

Mind you, this opinion was formed before the Internet and MA and being regularly exposed to widespread fan opinions that are sometimes so wildly opposed to my own analysis that they can only come across as conspiracies. I was still regularly exposed to widespread critics opinions, and back then paper magazine reviews still had some sort of consistency and credibility (I'm talking late 80s early 90s here), but the French metal press back then was content slapping the melodic speed metal tag on that stuff, with or without "progressive" or "technical" to nuance it, and that was fine by me (it's also what they called Keepers-era Helloween back then, but hey! good times). When I first discovered this site a few years ago and found out a lot of people seemed to be adamant on calling this thrash, I went "lol what?!". I've just given the album a fresh listen while reading this thread and typing this post, and well... this is still no fucking thrash, folks.

'World Circus', while somewhat melodic (more in a classic-era Anthrax way than in a EuroPM way) is certainly a relentless and technical speed/thrash album with character, class and energy in spades, though. I'm absolutely fine with calling that one thrash. I suppose the fact that it came first is the main reason people still mistakenly think of 'Think This', its sophomore, as being thrash as well. Well, think again, guys. It's not.

On a side note, are you people deliberately yanking ANA's chain by pretending not to get his obvious joke? He posted "Think this sucks. Listen to some real thrash" with a link to a Bon-Jovi's-hairdo-meets-Californication sappy ballad containing 0% of metal. It stands to reason that he was mocking the album's alleged thrashiness. What's not to get? :lol:
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 4863
Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:24 am 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
On a side note, are you people deliberately yanking ANA's chain by pretending not to get his obvious joke? He posted "Think this sucks. Listen to some real thrash" with a link to a Bon-Jovi's-hairdo-meets-Californication sappy ballad containing 0% of metal. It stands to reason that he was mocking the album's alleged thrashiness. What's not to get? :lol:


^^^For real
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HamburgerBoy
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:40 am
Posts: 1462
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:07 am 
 

I don't hear the Bon Jovi balladry in that Annihilator song to be honest. I get an almost glammed-up-jangle-pop vibe from it (and regardless of what it is, it's easily one of the best songs on that album vs all the derivative trad/groove metal on it). Definitely agree that Think This is pretty far from a thrash album though; I prefer to think of it as simply a progressive metal album, or prog/power. Even the songs that do feature thrash riffs generally don't keep it up for the whole duration.

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Riffs
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:14 pm 
 

Ashamed to say I don't remember even hearing about this band, which is kind of strange considering I was into thrash at the time.

Currently listening to some songs off Think This on Youtube and it's not bad at all! Kinda sounds like an Anthrax/Jag Panzer with US prog/power elements to my ear.

Back then, only a few years could really make a difference between success and failure for Thrash bands. This might have had more success around 1985.
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Von Jugel
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:49 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:32 pm 
 

Riffs wrote:
Ashamed to say I don't remember even hearing about this band, which is kind of strange considering I was into thrash at the time.

Currently listening to some songs off Think This on Youtube and it's not bad at all! Kinda sounds like an Anthrax/Jag Panzer with US prog/power elements to my ear.

Back then, only a few years could really make a difference between success and failure for Thrash bands. This might have had more success around 1985.


I much prefer World Circus. I remember hating it when I first heard it way back when, just couldn't get past the vocals (I actually returned the CD to where I bought it). I found a nice copy on vinyl though just a few months ago (for cheap), so I gave it another shot. Since then it has grown on me. Maybe if I had listened to Watchtower at the time when I first heard it I would have been more prepared.

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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
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Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:38 pm 
 

Von Jugel wrote:
I much prefer World Circus. I remember hating it when I first heard it way back when, just couldn't get past the vocals (I actually returned the CD to where I bought it). I found a nice copy on vinyl though just a few months ago (for cheap), so I gave it another shot. Since then it has grown on me.


I'm gonna give it a try too. Anything in particular you prefer about it?
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Xlxlx
May contain traces of nuts

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:42 pm 
 

World Circus is outright crazy technical speed/thrash, Riffs. Completely unhinged, with tons of over the top solos and vocal melodies (their first singer, Mike Sanders, was one of a kind regarding high pitched wailing), riffing that could cut diamonds and a very impressive rhythm section. You should definitely listen to it.
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Von Jugel
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:49 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:46 pm 
 

Riffs wrote:
Von Jugel wrote:
I much prefer World Circus. I remember hating it when I first heard it way back when, just couldn't get past the vocals (I actually returned the CD to where I bought it). I found a nice copy on vinyl though just a few months ago (for cheap), so I gave it another shot. Since then it has grown on me.


I'm gonna give it a try too. Anything in particular you prefer about it?


Thrashier I'd say, but overall I just like the songs more. Think This is more like Realm's Suiciety, I'd say, but I might prefer the latter. World Circus just has a bit dirtier sound that gives you more of a rush, I don't like it when things sound too clean.

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Jasper92
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 327
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:05 am 
 

Snippet of Crooked Crosses. https://soundcloud.com/toxik2013/toxik- ... es-snippet

No vocals, so I don't know about Mike. But at least Josh still has it in him. Sounds great!

And an interview with Josh (starts at 32:20)
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/heavy-meta ... n-of-toxik

Some demo's are going to be redone (wasteland, straight razor). And the new stuff is supposed to sound darker/angrier.
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tomcat_ha
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 2498
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:58 am 
 

aka more like groove metal!

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Jasper92
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 327
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:00 am 
 

Well, I believe he also said it's still thrashy
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joppek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
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Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:29 am 
 

i've always been of the opinion that think this has some fantastic music on it, but the horrible vocals drive me away from it, in much the same way i feel about voivod and merciful fate
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Jasper92
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:39 am
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:39 am 
 

I love the high pitched vocals within this genre.
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Xlxlx
May contain traces of nuts

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:14 pm 
 

Can't truly judge a snippet of a tune without context, but I actually liked that. Josh still has his knack for going completely bonkers with his guitar, and the riffing retains that bouncy feeling that many of their songs had. Consider me highly optimistic about this.
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thrashinbatman
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 308
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:46 pm 
 

I didn't like it at first, but the solo started wrapping up, and I was like, "Now there's Toxik." More stuff like that and I'll be all over it.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 4211
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:32 pm 
 

When I went to check it there was a comment saying that it sounded like Blotted Science. I don't entirely disagree. Make of that what you will.
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dystopia4
Veteran

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm
Posts: 3380
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:37 pm 
 

I'm probably just a cynic, but every time something like this happens I'm immediately worried that they'll do something lame and end up pissing all over their legacy. Who knows, could be really good.
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Z0MBIE
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 8:00 am
Posts: 838
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:49 pm 
 

Wow, that was weird.. I don't know what to make of it, I don't think I like it.
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HamburgerBoy
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:40 am
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:51 pm 
 

Sounds thrashier and more aggressive than anything on Think This, and no less technical. I don't even really like their albums that much (which I lament since I love a lot of tech-thrash), but this sounds promising, and I love those kinds of dissonant leads like those that start at 0:27.

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Xlxlx
May contain traces of nuts

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:11 am 
 

androdion wrote:
When I went to check it there was a comment saying that it sounded like Blotted Science. I don't entirely disagree. Make of that what you will.

I wouldn't be bothered by that, seeing that Blotted Science is one of the extremely few "instrumental-wank-disguised-as-a-band" kind of projects that I actually like.
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ModusOperandi
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 569
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:43 am 
 

^Likewise, and it's disheartening that Jarzombek isn't cited more often as an influence on the technicality in modern bands. Then again, Spastic Ink and Watchtower don't have nearly the "star power" nor recognition as, say, Gorguts by comparison.

I'm cautiously optimistic about a new Toxik album but not necessarily waiting for it with baited breath, either. This could just as easily go the route of Left for Dead by Laaz Rockit for example or any other similar comeback attempt. For what it's worth Jason Bittner of Shadows Fall is drumming on this, but I doubt it'll mean anything more in the big picture than him just playing how he's told to. He seems capable enough and Toxik's always been about the riffs first and foremost, anyway.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:34 am 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
androdion wrote:
When I went to check it there was a comment saying that it sounded like Blotted Science. I don't entirely disagree. Make of that what you will.

I wouldn't be bothered by that, seeing that Blotted Science is one of the extremely few "instrumental-wank-disguised-as-a-band" kind of projects that I actually like.

Yeah, but on the other hand going from Think This to The Machinations of Dementia is like a Japanese trying to speak English. It may be technically perfect but it just sounds so wrong! :lol:

ModusOperandi wrote:
^Likewise, and it's disheartening that Jarzombek isn't cited more often as an influence on the technicality in modern bands. Then again, Spastic Ink and Watchtower don't have nearly the "star power" nor recognition as, say, Gorguts by comparison.

Ron is one of the most influential guitarists in my book, at least when it comes to tech/prog stuff. Granted he isn't given the spotlight as others do but it's a different case. Gorguts always had more visibility than Watchtower, they were friends with the Florida crew and knew all the right people in the game. Watchtower on the other hand has always been really underground. But when you take into consideration that it was the band that influenced fucking Atheist... I mean, that says a lot about them. Doug Keyser is probably the most underrated bassist ever!
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Jasper92
Metal newbie

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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:32 pm 
 

Toxik recruited Ralph Santolla

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/toxik- ... -santolla/
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androdion
Metal freak

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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:05 pm 
 

Jasper92 wrote:

I went from :nono: to :brick: then :fuck: and finally :guns:

Fuck that fucking drunk! :snipe:
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Xlxlx
May contain traces of nuts

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:59 am 
 

Jasper92 wrote:

The only time this guy had any relevance was when he played in The Stench of Redemption, where he gave an admittedly cool performance. Not thrilled about this though. From what I heard, this bastard made it his mission to fuck up James Murphy's leads during Obituary shows. Not that I'll ever have the opportunity to see them live, but still.
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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:09 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Jasper92 wrote:

The only time this guy had any relevance was when he played in The Stench of Redemption, where he gave an admittedly cool performance. Not thrilled about this though. From what I heard, this bastard made it his mission to fuck up James Murphy's leads during Obituary shows. Not that I'll ever have the opportunity to see them live, but still.

He did, and I've seen it happen. Hence my reaction.
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Oblarg
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:59 pm
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Location: The second sea
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:09 pm 
 

There's really not much "power metal" about Think This at all, really. There are some subtle nods to Queensryche in places, I guess, but the riff structure really has nothing at all to do with any sort of power metal, be it USPM or euro-power. It's a progressive metal album, with riffs that clearly evolved from thrash but really have developed past it. It's a very mechanical-sounding album, with lots of weird chromatics and unsettling diminished minor stuff, none of which you really find in power metal. I don't get the "glam" accusations, either; there's some keyboard usage and the vocalist is a clean, high-pitched wailer with a hard-rock attitude, but apart from the ballad (which, apart from being damn good, also has some very non-glam atmospheric lead guitar stuff going on in the background) there's really not a single moment on that album that you could hear on a "glam" album without doing a huge double-take. Even the Led Zeppelin cover (which is absurdly out-of-place) doesn't really sound like hard rock anymore, much less glam.

Re: new stuff, I'm not sure how I feel about Toxik without Tad Leger - his drumming is a huge part of why I enjoy Think This so much.
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Dudemanguy
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:19 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:15 pm 
 

Oblarg wrote:
with a hard-rock attitude

And the lyrics on Think This are mostly politically/socially oriented which is a nice nod to punk/hardcore. I think the Zep cover strangely blends in very well on the album actually.

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Xlxlx
May contain traces of nuts

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:18 pm 
 

Yeah, I'm with Dudemanguy on the topic of the Zep cover. I thought it would stick out like a sore thumb when I saw it on the tracklist, but it turned out to be bizarrely well adapted to Toxik's style.

Everything else Oblarg said is spot on, though.
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