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Chaosmonger
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 pm
Posts: 794
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:14 pm 
 

lol Black Flag weren't straight-edge.

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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 9854
Location: Seattle, United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:22 pm 
 

Chaosmonger wrote:
lol Black Flag weren't straight-edge.

Not only weren't they straight-edge, but they were known to use the shit out of drunks and alcohol. I think Rollins was the only one that saw any of it as detrimental, but a lot of that also had to do with how it impacted tours and how people treated each other.
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iAm
Wastelander

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:18 am
Posts: 5630
Location: West of the Duwamish due South of the Sound
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:26 pm 
 

bloodycumshit wrote:
7 seconds


They may not smoke pot or anything else, but they definitely know how to drink.
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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 963
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:08 pm 
 

bloodycumshit wrote:
Burnyoursins wrote:

I'm really not, I'll admit it. But honestly, it's not always because of some "mechanism" in our brain. Some people do just take it to far. And whether that's out of a need to escape or whatever, it's still within their control. I get the feeling that the only people that FULLY buy that it's out of their control is ex-alcoholics and heavy drinkers.


And only dumb ignorant young people say things like that,i mean how old are you? the things you post definitely sound like there coming from a young teenager with no life experience.

Quote:
Alcohol has been in prevalent use since we starting building cities, for Christ sake. It's use hasn't skyrocketed, it's just stayed the same.

what the fuck has that got to do with anything


Well, I'm 25, I own my house fully, own my car outright, and have had plenty of bad nights with liquor. I have plenty of life experience. ;) Look, I'm not trying to insult you here. I know you said you used to be pretty heavy into drinking, and that's a shame. I'm just saying that a lot of people like to look for blame elsewhere. I don't need to become a raging alcoholic to see that having no control isn't always the case. There are always options. It's fine if you think I'm wrong, this all just opinion, right? Call me whatever you like, it's just my opinion. It's not hurting anyone.

Second of all, that was in reference to, "It's not comparable to most other forms of addiction due to the prevalence of alcohol use in our culture." Mind altering substances of all sorts have been prevalent in human society since our dawning. I don't agree at all that it's not comparable. Acid and pot was prevalent throughout the 60s and 70s, was widely available, and while pot is not physically addictive, it can be VERY psychologically addictive, as can acid. I'm just saying, would a person who used to be addicted to cocaine or heroin defend his stance any less than you? Would he/she willingly blame themselves for going too far with more ease than you? Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not implying that you, in whatever situation you might have been in, personally had any control over your consumption of alcohol. I'm just saying that it's entirely possible that a lot of alcoholics just refuse to admit that they didn't want to control themselves. Of course it's different for each situation. But to say it's somehow hardwired into the human brain to lose complete control over our indulgences just sounds ridiculous to me. So hey, lets just agree to disagree, and continue on with the discussion, eh?
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The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
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godsonsafari
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:03 am
Posts: 689
Location: Sparty's Land Grant University, USA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:57 pm 
 

Quote:
What the fuck are you talking about?


Metal's appeal is "danger". The definition of danger:

"exposure or liability to injury, pain, harm, or loss"

Does this excuse the behaviour? No. It is not intended that way either. It is simply a by-product of what heavy metal actually is. The same is largely true for most punk subgenres. It is largely true for many hip hop subgenres.

Quote:
Obviously metal has some degree of "acting like an asshole" at its core, like being loud, rowdy, blasphemous, irreverent, etc., but there's a pretty clear line between that kind of thing and getting way too drunk at a show and acting like a douche.


Is there?

Quote:
It's not about "behaviours antithetical to participation in a constructive society," it's about behaviors antithetical to participation in metal culture.


Tell me about "metal culture" and how it seeks to find admission and acceptance in western society. Oh, it doesn't? OK then. It is largely revolutionary in nature. Revolutions have a tendency to be messy.

Quote:
Or do you think people who grope strange women at shows should be cherished, because without the "danger" they bring, all the bands and fans (which includes you, I guess) would be poseurs?


I don't think they should be cherished. I don't respect them in any way shape or form. I also don't necessarily respect a lot of aspects of "being metal" by whatever standards people apply to that statement. Like I said, I'm largely an observer at this point sitting on his duff listening to the music in my car or in my house. "The scene" isn't something I identify with for the most part at this stage in my life. YMMV.
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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 908
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:04 pm 
 

godsonsafari wrote:
Quote:
Obviously metal has some degree of "acting like an asshole" at its core, like being loud, rowdy, blasphemous, irreverent, etc., but there's a pretty clear line between that kind of thing and getting way too drunk at a show and acting like a douche.


Is there?


I personally think there is a big thick line myself.

BTW, curious as to why you often quote people while removing their names. I find it a bit confusing and unproductive when you do that, to be honest.
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WaywardSon
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:48 am
Posts: 903
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:27 pm 
 

So...is there anyone else who listens to metal simply because they enjoy the music and doesn't care about culture/counterculturism, rebellion and tearing down western civilization norms? I didn't start listening to the genre because it pissed my parents off, I hated my teachers and boss or that I needed an outlet for my anger. If anything, the whole metal brotherhood thing puts me off. It always comes across as people being too insecure with themselves and needing something that connects them with something larger. I want friends that I can connect with based on something more than a genre of music.

I go to concerts because they're fun. Not to rebel against "the man", not to act like an asshole just because the atmosphere supposedly gives me an excuse. You can be rowdy without groping someone and without pummeling someone into unconsciousness. I don't drink or do any drugs, but I'm perfectly fine with them in moderation/getting a buzz. You can mosh, you can unwind and you can have fun without being a dick. Saying those who are assholes are the same as people having a good time is erroneous.
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godsonsafari
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:03 am
Posts: 689
Location: Sparty's Land Grant University, USA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:44 pm 
 

Quote:
BTW, curious as to why you often quote people while removing their names. I find it a bit confusing and unproductive when you do that, to be honest.


Usually I use the quick reply feature and add the HTML tags myself, that way I can more easily navigate the thread. Just my personal preference I guess?
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bloodycumshit
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:10 pm
Posts: 507
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:57 pm 
 

Burnyoursins wrote:

Well, I'm 25, I own my house fully, own my car outright, and have had plenty of bad nights with liquor. I have plenty of life experience. ;) Look, I'm not trying to insult you here. I know you said you used to be pretty heavy into drinking, and that's a shame. I'm just saying that a lot of people like to look for blame elsewhere. I don't need to become a raging alcoholic to see that having no control isn't always the case. There are always options. It's fine if you think I'm wrong, this all just opinion, right? Call me whatever you like, it's just my opinion. It's not hurting anyone.

Second of all, that was in reference to, "It's not comparable to most other forms of addiction due to the prevalence of alcohol use in our culture." Mind altering substances of all sorts have been prevalent in human society since our dawning. I don't agree at all that it's not comparable. Acid and pot was prevalent throughout the 60s and 70s, was widely available, and while pot is not physically addictive, it can be VERY psychologically addictive, as can acid. I'm just saying, would a person who used to be addicted to cocaine or heroin defend his stance any less than you? Would he/she willingly blame themselves for going too far with more ease than you? Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not implying that you, in whatever situation you might have been in, personally had any control over your consumption of alcohol. I'm just saying that it's entirely possible that a lot of alcoholics just refuse to admit that they didn't want to control themselves. Of course it's different for each situation. But to say it's somehow hardwired into the human brain to lose complete control over our indulgences just sounds ridiculous to me. So hey, lets just agree to disagree, and continue on with the discussion, eh?


wow!you own your own car!your a big boy aren't you :lol: na, it's pretty good to own your own house at 25 these days,i just brought my first house at 29.....We agree to disagree..back to the topic

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godsonsafari
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:03 am
Posts: 689
Location: Sparty's Land Grant University, USA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:01 pm 
 

Quote:
So...is there anyone else who listens to metal simply because they enjoy the music and doesn't care about culture/counterculturism, rebellion and tearing down western civilization norms? I didn't start listening to the genre because it pissed my parents off, I hated my teachers and boss or that I needed an outlet for my anger.


How many people consciously say, "I hate ______, and listening to metal makes them angry so I'll listen to metal"? That sort of adolescent response barely exists in people who can type a coherent sentence. Having said that, the vast majority of people who listen to something as outwardly aggressive as heavy metal (especially more extreme forms like death/thrash/black) are going to have something intrinsically about their emotional/psychological state that makes such music or the scene surrounding it appealing. This gets to a larger discussion about heavy metal in a sociological sense and could be tied back to the lousy thread about women in heavy metal elsewhere in the forum.

Quote:
I go to concerts because they're fun. Not to rebel against "the man", not to act like an asshole just because the atmosphere supposedly gives me an excuse. You can be rowdy without groping someone and without pummeling someone into unconsciousness. I don't drink or do any drugs, but I'm perfectly fine with them in moderation/getting a buzz. You can mosh, you can unwind and you can have fun without being a dick. Saying those who are assholes are the same as people having a good time is erroneous.


You said it best: "it supposedly gives you an excuse". Some of the things you enjoy doing at shows I find conceptually appealing but I've come to the conclusion I no longer want to deal with. I don't want to spend half an hour (or more) at a clip with my arm sticking out in front of me or shoving dudes back into the pit. So I don't go.
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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 9687
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:28 pm 
 

godsonsafari wrote:
Quote:
What the fuck are you talking about?


Metal's appeal is "danger". The definition of danger:

"exposure or liability to injury, pain, harm, or loss"

In order for that to be true, you'd have to make the definition of "danger" so much broader than your little dictionary definition that it would lose all relevance. In short: bullshit.

godsonsafari wrote:
Quote:
Obviously metal has some degree of "acting like an asshole" at its core, like being loud, rowdy, blasphemous, irreverent, etc., but there's a pretty clear line between that kind of thing and getting way too drunk at a show and acting like a douche.


Is there?

Luckily, you answered this question for me:
godsonsafari wrote:
Like I said, I'm largely an observer at this point sitting on his duff listening to the music in my car or in my house.

You don't participate in that form of social interaction and thus have no understanding of the social rules involved. This forum is an extension of metal culture, and there's a pretty clear line between general rowdiness and the sort of behavior that necessitates being shown the door.
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godsonsafari
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:03 am
Posts: 689
Location: Sparty's Land Grant University, USA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:42 pm 
 

edit: I'll take the post below as my cue to suggest that if anyone wants to discuss my opinion further to PM me and let this go back to the original topic.
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Last edited by godsonsafari on Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Derigin
Anthropophagus

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 2639
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:47 pm 
 

Careful to keep this on topic and relevant folks. There's a difference between using this thread as a general discussion of drinking/social behaviour/the sociology of metal, using it to intellectually (or in some cases non-intellectually) beat down on others, and using it to have a fair discussion on the issue that droneriot wrote about in the original post (the actual purpose of this thread). Spread the topic too thin and make it a melting pot of off-topic topics, and this thread might find a soon and quick, sudden death.

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CF_Mono
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 1501
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:23 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
droneriot wrote:
...or do you think people should just have fun and find out about the risks by themselves?


It sounds a bit mercenary but in general I think it comes down to this. Of course we all want to be more like Lemmy, but most of us are human and will discover our many shortcomings in due time. The risk/reward management is different for everyone, as is the effect alcohol has on them, how often they drink, and how much they need to drink to get the desired effect.

I can't imagine any of us want a more "responsible" message from our heavy metal? I certainly don't. Real life is nothing but a grey area, I enjoy the stark black/white contrast of heavy metal where everything is either GREAT or SHIT, GOOD or EVIL, etc etc. I could be wrong on this though, I have my finger VERY far from the pulse.
I actually like this post a lot. I came here to say that to my eyes, there are just as many radical straight edge views about drinking *particularly in black metal and punk* as there are pro-alcohol ideas in heavy music. But that's the nature content in extreme music; ideology in excess. Very black and white. But you shouldn't be so concerned as to how you think you should behave according to what some band thinks, as Jonpo said, life is a huge grey blob... lol
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693
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:55 am
Posts: 625
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:41 pm 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
Chaosmonger wrote:
lol Black Flag weren't straight-edge.

Not only weren't they straight-edge, but they were known to use the shit out of drunks and alcohol. I think Rollins was the only one that saw any of it as detrimental, but a lot of that also had to do with how it impacted tours and how people treated each other.


That might be true, but it is pretty well known Rollins' stand on Alcohol. "There's no time for drinking this Jack Daniels Poison", taken from when he talked about the stupid things you do in life, and suddenly you are dead.

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LiberXul
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:16 pm
Posts: 55
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:13 am 
 

Nothing wrong with breathing out the flame of doom with a cold beer. Alchoholisms aren't something to admire but they're a bit of fun.

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BasqueStorm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 2014
Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:15 am 
 

Burnyoursins wrote:
BasqueStorm wrote:
Not saying we don't have this behaviour here but... what a "funny" country you have there!

And Basque, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say? It's just a fact that most gigs, regardless of genre, are held at a venue that serves alcohol. I think the same holds true for most of Europe?

Yeah, I agree about gigs but what about other social places for entertainment? Theatres, cinemas, operas, racetracks,...?!?
Isn't that going TOO far?!?

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Bezerko
Vladimir Poopin

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:50 am
Posts: 4806
Location: Venestraya
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:17 am 
 

Australia has cinemas with bars, or "Gold Class" where you can be served alcohol during the film. Racetracks sure as hell have alcohol...

Not that strange.

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StillDeath
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 7:47 am
Posts: 278
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:27 am 
 

It says more about audience than metal itself because people seek out that with which they can relate. For some it's alcohol for others fantasy, or cosmology, or paganism, or politics.

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Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 477
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:06 am 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
Lagartija wrote:
Tankard themselves admit that there is no way they could keep up the pace of what they sing about and warn about the dangers of alcohol addiction. Gerre works with drug-addicts so he knows what he is talking about. They are about having fun with booze (and fun in general).

Oh, I totally didn't know this, so I suppose you can render my previous statement on them moot.

Is that his day job?

Yep. I think the drummer is an electrician or a plumber or something like that, I'm not sure about the others...

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Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 477
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:08 am 
 

WaywardSon wrote:
So...is there anyone else who listens to metal simply because they enjoy the music and doesn't care about culture/counterculturism, rebellion and tearing down western civilization norms?

Yep... although that stuff is cool as well :D

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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
Posts: 4098
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:11 pm 
 

WaywardSon wrote:
So...is there anyone else who listens to metal simply because they enjoy the music and doesn't care about culture/counterculturism, rebellion and tearing down western civilization norms?

*raise hand*
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bloodycumshit
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:10 pm
Posts: 507
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:23 pm 
 

Chaosmonger wrote:
lol Black Flag weren't straight-edge.


don't think anyone said they were

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Tempered_Steel
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:30 pm
Posts: 44
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:36 pm 
 

Alcohol is manufactured by the sheep for the sheep. Besides what could possibly be more kvlt than sobriety?

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Oblivion_Gene
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 3:03 pm
Posts: 108
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:31 pm 
 

Tempered_Steel wrote:
Alcohol is manufactured by the sheep for the sheep.


I think the craft/microbrew industry would like a word with you...

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Ba Zuulizx Karoth
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:19 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:50 pm 
 

I think the reason alcoholism is so prominent in metal is because, while lyrics wise alcohol is not as common as say murder and violence, well, other than in the speed and folk styles, it is a everyday occurance in society which effects many people and so becomes more human. Contrasting this is the themes of goat rituals and virgin rape. Though it happens in occassionaly in society, to the sane person, it is naught but fantasy.

To an earlier comment: When sober I seem to enjoy nothing but Black, Thrash, Death, etc. metal, but for some reason, once I'm down a 12 pack and/or a few lines of coke, rap becomes equally apealling. I think it's because, honestly, as metal heads our tastes have evloved beyond the sheep like mentality of modern society, yet, when blasted on various substances, our intelligence starts to lower to the level of 'regular' people. Often though, it seems I listen to it sarcastically and ironically. The whole rap culture is so fucking laughably shallow!

Gotta love getting a 24-pack Corona, 8-ball, and some old school B.I.G. :) Good times.

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Chaosmonger
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:59 pm
Posts: 794
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:11 pm 
 

bloodycumshit wrote:
Chaosmonger wrote:
lol Black Flag weren't straight-edge.


don't think anyone said they were


you're right, I misread your post. 'Thirsty and Miserable' though doesn't come across so much as totally an anti-drinking song but moreso against people who use it as their only means of having fun.

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Hastein45
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:56 pm
Posts: 198
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:56 pm 
 

godsonsafari wrote:
How many people consciously say, "I hate ______, and listening to metal makes them angry so I'll listen to metal"? That sort of adolescent response barely exists in people who can type a coherent sentence. Having said that, the vast majority of people who listen to something as outwardly aggressive as heavy metal (especially more extreme forms like death/thrash/black) are going to have something intrinsically about their emotional/psychological state that makes such music or the scene surrounding it appealing. This gets to a larger discussion about heavy metal in a sociological sense and could be tied back to the lousy thread about women in heavy metal elsewhere in the forum.

This seems to be spot on. I am personally enamored with the abrasiveness of certain genres and the extremes in some bands ideologies. I am not meaning to engage in a debate, I am merely accepting of this. I think many people have an "extreme" side.

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BasqueStorm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 2014
Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:19 pm 
 

Bezerko wrote:
Australia has cinemas with bars, or "Gold Class" where you can be served alcohol during the film. Racetracks sure as hell have alcohol...
Not that strange.

But we're comparing US, Canada, Australia,... with Europe.
I find it odd to sell alcohol EVERYWHERE.

Oblivion_Gene wrote:
Tempered_Steel wrote:
Alcohol is manufactured by the sheep for the sheep.

I think the craft/microbrew industry would like a word with you...

LOL! +1.

Ba Zuulizx Karoth wrote:
When sober I seem to enjoy nothing but Black, Thrash, Death, etc. metal, but for some reason, once I'm down a 12 pack and/or a few lines of coke, rap becomes equally apealling. I think it's because, honestly, as metal heads our tastes have evloved beyond the sheep like mentality of modern society, yet, when blasted on various substances, our intelligence starts to lower to the level of 'regular' people.

Wait! What?!? No. I understand what you say but... do you REALLY think that's the cause? C'mon!

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BottomFeeder1
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:09 am
Posts: 342
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:27 pm 
 

Tempered_Steel wrote:
Alcohol is manufactured by the sheep for the sheep. Besides what could possibly be more kvlt than sobriety?

Brutal self sestruction in solitude without complaining or asking for charity... Ever.

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BottomFeeder1
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:09 am
Posts: 342
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:30 pm 
 

LiberXul wrote:
Nothing wrong with breathing out the flame of doom with a cold beer. Alchoholisms aren't something to admire but they're a bit of fun.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 908
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:54 pm 
 

BasqueStorm wrote:
Bezerko wrote:
Australia has cinemas with bars, or "Gold Class" where you can be served alcohol during the film. Racetracks sure as hell have alcohol...
Not that strange.

But we're comparing US, Canada, Australia,... with Europe.
I find it odd to sell alcohol EVERYWHERE.


This may just be a perception thing, BasqueStorm. A lot of North Americans come back from Europe amazed, astonished at the prevalence of alcohol there. Stories about home dinners routinely being served with copious amounts of wine, for instance. Like it's a fucking holiday when we're just in the middle of the week :p

The alcohol may just be served at different time, different places and different ways. But I've yet to find one North American telling me: Gee, I sure had a lot of problems finding a shitload of alcohol in Germany/Italy/France :p
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maxxpower
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:04 pm
Posts: 399
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:42 am 
 

I haven't met many metalheads, but every metalhead I have met has been a drunk, pothead, or a combination of both. I drink occasionally and even when I do drink I'm satisfied with a slight buzzed feeling, I never go for the full-on wasted feeling because honestly it fucking sucks and you can't remember shit. When you're buzzed you can at least know what you're doing while still being a bit drunk.

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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 963
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:35 am 
 

Ba Zuulizx Karoth wrote:
I think the reason alcoholism is so prominent in metal is because, while lyrics wise alcohol is not as common as say murder and violence, well, other than in the speed and folk styles, it is a everyday occurance in society which effects many people and so becomes more human. Contrasting this is the themes of goat rituals and virgin rape. Though it happens in occassionaly in society, to the sane person, it is naught but fantasy.

To an earlier comment: When sober I seem to enjoy nothing but Black, Thrash, Death, etc. metal, but for some reason, once I'm down a 12 pack and/or a few lines of coke, rap becomes equally apealling. I think it's because, honestly, as metal heads our tastes have evloved beyond the sheep like mentality of modern society, yet, when blasted on various substances, our intelligence starts to lower to the level of 'regular' people. Often though, it seems I listen to it sarcastically and ironically. The whole rap culture is so fucking laughably shallow!

Gotta love getting a 24-pack Corona, 8-ball, and some old school B.I.G. :) Good times.


I think that, for one, you're giving metalheads FAR too much credit. There are a lot of us, and plenty of us are just as shit-for-brains as the rest of the population, and two, I don't think I've ever suddenly enjoyed rap, dance, or any form of electronic at any level of diaper drunkness. Anyway, of course we wouldn't be operating at full cognitive capacity after banging back 15 beers. Doesn't mean we're suddenly stupid. That happens when you black out.
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SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
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Riffs
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:31 am 
 

Burnyoursins wrote:

I think that, for one, you're giving metalheads FAR too much credit. There are a lot of us, and plenty of us are just as shit-for-brains as the rest of the population, and two, I don't think I've ever suddenly enjoyed rap, dance, or any form of electronic at any level of diaper drunkness. Anyway, of course we wouldn't be operating at full cognitive capacity after banging back 15 beers. Doesn't mean we're suddenly stupid. That happens when you black out.


LOL, agree with you on the overestimation of the average metalhead being somehow more "evolved".

On the matter of getting suddenly stupid when you're drunk: that doesn't necessarily happen, but alcohol seems to produce disinhibition in a lot of people. For some, that can mean their ugly side suddenly comes out when usually, it doesn't. Combine that with the fact it boosts confidence and affects judgment and you've got an explosive cocktail when a usually repressed asshole decides to down a dozen+ beers.
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bloodycumshit
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:10 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:41 am 
 

Burnyoursins wrote:
]

I think that, for one, you're giving metalheads FAR too much credit. There are a lot of us, and plenty of us are just as shit-for-brains as the rest of the population, and two, I don't think I've ever suddenly enjoyed rap, dance, or any form of electronic at any level of diaper drunkness. .


Your right,i don't ever remember liking really crap music when drunk,even after adding a few dancing type pills to the mix.

But i have to admit, i have only begun to like metal (black/ambient/DSBM..whatever the fuck your supposed to call it) after i got sober....

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chaos_serpent
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:30 am
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:58 am 
 

I personally don't listen to bands that idealize alcohol use or even really have lyrics about using alcohol (there might be a couple of songs in my library but nothing that immediately comes to mind). I drink on rare occasions, for no real reason, just not something I take time to do, and I actually dislike being drunk as I find it to be pretty uncomfortable. The whole "w00, ALCOHOL!" mentality doesn't appeal to me; it's not "just metalheads" who have this sort of attitude, just go to any college frat. In fact, getting shit-faced in general is not exactly incredibly counterculture anymore since it's common in a variety of instances/subcultures. People talk about getting shit-faced at office parties for fuck's sake.
It just comes across as pathetic to me when somebody's major source of entertainment comes from getting shit-faced. Going out, having some drinks with friends to loosen up a bit, that's fine. People want to relax and let go of their worries for a while, I get it and that's cool. But going somewhere and specifically getting shit-faced just so X activity can be super awesome fun? I find suspect the kind of person that's into that.
And really, that's just personal preference. I couldn't care less if somebody goes to shows, hangs out with friends, whatever and constantly gets ridiculously drunk. I only start to care if they try to mess with me or start acting like a such fantastic douche to the point where even other inebriated people are getting annoyed ("that guy" syndrome).

Whether it's idealized too much or not, I can't really say but I do notice that a lot of the exposure metal gets in some form of media, positive or negative, will inevitably show people being wasted or in the process of getting wasted. I can at least say excessive alcohol consumption seems to be overemphasized in metal.

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Scorntyrant
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:26 am 
 

Having a chuckle at all the humblebrags going on in here."I'm so much smarter than all those un-evolved people who drink blah blah blah" Especially funny given that so many of them are coming from people who seem to be only just of legal age and/or from the US, a country with a notoriously puritan outlook about booze - I read somewhere that the US has a bizarrely high number of adults who are teetotalers, way out of line with most comparable countries. Add to that the reliance on cars and you get the bizarre drinking culture I saw when I was there. People looking at you like you needed to go to AA if you suggested going to the pub after work during the week and having like 2 beers, or drinking a bottle of wine with dinner over 3 hours. As has been remarked upon, in the rest of the civilised world, there is not a "glamour" factor (positive or negative) about it the way I observed in the states. It's just a normal, everyday part of life that goes on. Certainly here in Australia, the local pub is a central part of most communities, usually with a nice garden, serves meals, and is the meeting-place where everyone gathers (rather than being a seedy dive bar full of drunks or a raucous nightclub).

I dont think I've ever come across any songs "glorifying" alcoholism. Some glorify drinking. There is an absolutely massive difference - who on earth would glorify a crippling disease that will completely fuck up your life? In fact the only thing that springs to mind is Bukowski's writing, and even that is coming from a pretty bleak place.
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Jackoroth
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:08 am 
 

The idea of alcohol themed metal has just been way over done but I think a song like this can really work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nOejmKe-N4

They sort of do it like it's a Russian theme song which really works.
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DeathForBlitzkrieg
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:11 am 
 

Riffs wrote:
This may just be a perception thing, BasqueStorm. A lot of North Americans come back from Europe amazed, astonished at the prevalence of alcohol there. Stories about home dinners routinely being served with copious amounts of wine, for instance. Like it's a fucking holiday when we're just in the middle of the week :p

The alcohol may just be served at different time, different places and different ways. But I've yet to find one North American telling me: Gee, I sure had a lot of problems finding a shitload of alcohol in Germany/Italy/France :p


Once a friend of mine had a couchsurfer from New York City sleep at his place for two nights before the guy went on to the next city. In the evening of the first day I joined them at my friend's flat and we watched a football Champions League game and were drinking beer out of cans. After a while we decided to go out to some pub in the inner city, so I popped open a new can and said, let's go. The American looked at me with great surprise and asked if we don't want to finish off our beers first. He simply couldn't believe that it's absolutely no problem here to drink alcohol on the streets and on the underground trains. Well, drinking alcohol on public service vehicles is officially forbidden, but nobody gives a damn, especially on Friday and Saturday evening one can observe groups of young people getting already veritably drunk on their way to the pub/bar/club of their choice, drinking beer or passing around a vodka bottle or something. Now that I think about it, when I go out myself, before I head home I often buy a döner kebab and another beer (at the same vendor, obviosly) before I get on the underground - don't want to be thirsty on the way, haha!

Well, the American guy really couldn't believe it, but he told us something that we couldn't grasp. That where he's from some people do drink on the streets, but with the bottle hidden in a plastic bag... That shit is hilarious!

chaos_serpent wrote:
The whole "w00, ALCOHOL!" mentality doesn't appeal to me; it's not "just metalheads" who have this sort of attitude, just go to any college frat. In fact, getting shit-faced in general is not exactly incredibly counterculture anymore since it's common in a variety of instances/subcultures. People talk about getting shit-faced at office parties for fuck's sake.
It just comes across as pathetic to me when somebody's major source of entertainment comes from getting shit-faced.


Scorntyrant wrote:
People looking at you like you needed to go to AA if you suggested going to the pub after work during the week and having like 2 beers, or drinking a bottle of wine with dinner over 3 hours. As has been remarked upon, in the rest of the civilised world, there is not a "glamour" factor (positive or negative) about it the way I observed in the states. It's just a normal, everyday part of life that goes on. Certainly here in Australia, the local pub is a central part of most communities, usually with a nice garden, serves meals, and is the meeting-place where everyone gathers (rather than being a seedy dive bar full of drunks or a raucous nightclub).


It seems like there's no decent drinking culture in the US (the local Australian pub described above seems rather familiar to me on the other hand), either people stay sober or get completely shit-faced. Well, probably that's what you get when your father takes you to the shooting range instead of drinking your first beer with you to show you what "drink responsibly" means.
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