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Maniac Matis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:00 pm 
 

I did a little bit of browsing around the forum to see if this has been talked about before, but to no avail. So here it is: I'd like to hear what the metal community has to say about Eric Grief constantly re-issuing Death albums, being the mastermind behind the whole Death To All Tour, etc. I can't help but wonder if his approach is genuine, or otherwise. What do you guys think?
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Against Such Things
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:04 pm 
 

While I don't know what his intentions are, I do think it's a nice tribute.
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DisembowelMe
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:13 pm 
 

Nothing wrong with keeping albums in circulation, regardless of intent.

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Maniac Matis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:13 pm 
 

A tribute? I think it's good in the sense that it's gotten alot of younger kids into Death that otherwise would've never heard of them. But I can't help but feel like it has absolutely everything to do with money. I mean come on, the entire engine, creative mastermind, and visionary for the band is dead. I think it's time to leave Chuck's work alone.
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:25 pm 
 

The remasters has been an excellent idea, especially the Human one who has the best mix ever now. The bass is thunderous yet everything sounds as heavy as always has been.

I think once all the albums are reissued, Greif shoul leave Chuck's legacy to rest and leave time to say if it'll stand the test of time.

About the 'Death to All' stuff, it's not different than the Dio Disciples thing; there are tons of metalheads who never got the chance to see Chuck live (I did ^^ at the TSOP Tour) so it's the closer they can get the experience. It's not like Masvidal, Reinert or Di Giorgio are cashing too much with this; they do it mostly for fun (at least Di Giorgio). I would like to see Murphy playing at least a couple of tracks as a guest if his health doesn't allow him to play a whole set.
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TheMysticWombat
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:31 pm 
 

I honestly believe that his intentions are good.
I have the remasters/remixes that were released, and the content is fucking great. The liner notes are incredible (booklet has a TON of pictures and each one is around 20 pages) and contain personal recollections from the former members/fans (Deodorant never worked on Chuck). Plus the sound is incredible.

He promised to fix the sound of the snare on Leprosy, and we all know the amazing work that was done on the remix of Human. So I trust the man. He was a total bro when I met him at Death To All and he was down to earth.

Kveldulfr wrote:
The remasters has been an excellent idea, especially the Human one who has the best mix ever now. The bass is thunderous yet everything sounds as heavy as always has been.

Yep!

Kveldulfr wrote:
there are tons of metalheads who never got the chance to see Chuck live (I did ^^ at the TSOP Tour)

:bow: :bow: :bow:

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Lightsbane
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:14 am 
 

Chuck's family seems to have some involvement and I think that's the most important thing. Personally I'd love a instrumental box set or digital re-relases like that especially of the later albums. Should be interesting when they eventually re-issue Scream Bloody Gore what they do to it.

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Riffs
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:08 am 
 

I think the guy is handling Death's legacy rather well and I'm glad if he can earn some money through his efforts.
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Element_man
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:11 am 
 

I had the opportunity to meet Eric Grief and listen to him speak in several panels at a music conference in Calgary. Apparently he spent a long, long time working to wrestle the rights to Death away from Sony believe it was. Chuck signed everything away when he was still a teenager because fuck, he didn't know any better. Grief has also represented the Schuldiner Estate as their lawyer in many cases following Chuck's death, so I feel like he has done a lot for Death and it's great of him to keep the music in circulation as someone else mentioned.

In addition, Grief does a lot of great work for the stand-out, hard-working local bands in Alberta. Like Striker for example. He definitely "gives back" to the scene around here. The guy has my respect.
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Marmer
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:42 am 
 

Ok. read all the answers. Grief is not only doing good things. Check out the Unofficial re releasae of Morbid Saints - Spectrum of Death. He never had any rights to do this. I had some conversations with him, About the idiot prices they ask for these re issue things of death. For example the Spiritual fan pack. 100$??? come on. thats way to much.
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Marmer
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:46 am 
 

And dont forget how they forced HammerHeart records, To give up the rights they had on Control Denied and the Chuck Schuldiner Zero Tolerance releases. We know Guido of HHR Personally and Chuck signed this deals when he wasnt a youngster anymore. But after he died, Grief and the Schuldiner family threathened them with all kinds of lawyers and so on. HammerHeart went Bankrupt on it back then. So please dont be to happy about mr Grief.
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The Lions Den
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:34 am 
 

Only one word for this guy and the Schuldiner family: jackals.

Jackals for having sold Chuck's soul to Relapse vultures which is demolishing Death's work with unlikely remaster already perfect by original version..

Jackals to take advantage of all the fools who could not buy the Death's albums before these infamous reprints. Or worse, yet all those fanatical collectors ready to spend a fortune for a belch by Chuck.

Stop.

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Marmer
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:55 am 
 

The Lions Den wrote:
Only one word for this guy and the Schuldiner family: jackals.

Jackals for having sold Chuck's soul to Relapse vultures which is demolishing Death's work with unlikely remaster already perfect by original version..

Jackals to take advantage of all the fools who could not buy the Death's albums before these infamous reprints. Or worse, yet all those fanatical collectors ready to spend a fortune for a belch by Chuck.

Stop.

Image


Amen to that!!! thnx mate for standing along with my opinions..
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p0wnn00b
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:24 am 
 

It's nice that Spiritual Healing is on the market again and that Death's albums are more available at record stores. Maybe after the reissues are done, Greif should leave Death alone, as someone else said.

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Marmer
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:38 am 
 

The thing is. Century media brought all these albums also in awesome re issues back in the end 90's. This is pure for them selves.
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Zero_Nowhere
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:00 am 
 

Marmer wrote:
The thing is. Century media brought all these albums also in awesome re issues back in the end 90's. This is pure for them selves.


And?

That was more than a decade ago. There's a whole new generation of metalheads who might want those albums and the Century releases went out of print a long time back.

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Marmer
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:25 am 
 

So? keep repressing these things then? Who is benefitting on it? For Sure not Chuck
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:29 am 
 

So we're apparently past the phase where anyone even realizes a remaster is not the real deal (let alone a fucking remix with specific instruments deliberately altered)? The usual "extra pictures and trivia in the booklet" trap works wonders, I see. :(

These aren't the albums you're looking for. :thumbsdown:
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TheDefiniteArticle
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:50 am 
 

Marmer wrote:
So? keep repressing these things then? Who is benefitting on it? For Sure not Chuck

Just keep everything in print ideally. If print-to-order stuff was done at all well it would be the way forward. As it stands, represses (perhaps not remasters) should be done frequently, and I suppose the collectors still have a matrix number to wank over.

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joppek
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:21 am 
 

TheMysticWombat wrote:
He promised to fix the sound of the snare on Leprosy


this alone makes it all worthwhile - any news on when that might be released?
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:48 am 
 

I do think that the remasters are a good idea, especially the ones for Human and Spiritual Healing, and I hope that SOMEBODY is working on the unreleased Control Denied stuff, but I can't really say much other than that.
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skwid79
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:00 am 
 

I prefer to hear original versions but the availability of the Death albums is nice.

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TadGhostal
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:55 am 
 

joppek wrote:
TheMysticWombat wrote:
He promised to fix the sound of the snare on Leprosy


this alone makes it all worthwhile - any news on when that might be released?


November, according to Eric

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Sick6Six
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:28 pm 
 

I don't know a lot about Eric, but that first "Death to All" tour that apparently sick drummer ripped everybody off on was an honor to see. The musicians kept talking about Chuck and Death and were just having an amazing time playing his music. You could really tell they were just as excited and honored as the fans. Both of the singers/guitarists were great, the guy from Exhumed and I forget the other guy, and Black Dahlia Murder's vocalist made a guest appearance for Symbolic and you could tell he was so fucking stoked. I normally don't listen to those guest musicians bands, but they gained some respect from me for that show.

Edit: TheMysticWombat wrote:
"He promised to fix the sound of the snare on Leprosy" I never knew there was a problem with anything on Leprosy, but I don't see anything wrong with remastering classic albums either way.
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299796kms
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:12 pm 
 

The Lions Den wrote:
Only one word for this guy and the Schuldiner family: jackals.

Jackals for having sold Chuck's soul to Relapse vultures which is demolishing Death's work with unlikely remaster already perfect by original version..

Jackals to take advantage of all the fools who could not buy the Death's albums before these infamous reprints. Or worse, yet all those fanatical collectors ready to spend a fortune for a belch by Chuck.

Stop.


Yes, hell forbid Chuck's bereaved family use Chuck's legacy to pay off the debt from his medical expenses. Hell forbid some of these reiusses are improvements on the originals, hell forbid they actually put effort into these reissues (unlike some other reissues I can think of), and hell forbid these reissues make Death's groundbreaking music available to the greater public, some of whom missed out on Death because its clearly their fault they weren't born earlier. Jesus H. Corbitt, would you like some cheese with your whine?
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:19 pm 
 

299796kms wrote:
The Lions Den wrote:
Only one word for this guy and the Schuldiner family: jackals.

Jackals for having sold Chuck's soul to Relapse vultures which is demolishing Death's work with unlikely remaster already perfect by original version..

Jackals to take advantage of all the fools who could not buy the Death's albums before these infamous reprints. Or worse, yet all those fanatical collectors ready to spend a fortune for a belch by Chuck.

Stop.


Yes, hell forbid Chuck's bereaved family use Chuck's legacy to pay off the debt from his medical expenses. Hell forbid some of these reiusses are improvements on the originals, hell forbid they actually put effort into these reissues (unlike some other reissues I can think of), and hell forbid these reissues make Death's groundbreaking music available to the greater public, some of whom missed out on Death because its clearly their fault they weren't born earlier. Jesus H. Corbitt, would you like some cheese with your whine?

I don't really care for either of you guys' sides of the coin on everything else (both posts are caricatures, that's for sure), but people really need to start understanding that a reissue and the issue of a different version are, by definition, not the same thing. You, with the kilometric name, might consider such or such altered version "an improvement over the original", others surely will surely disagree with you on the quality of the new sound job given to those albums, but that's besides the point.

The point is: making remastered/remixed version of out-of-print works readily available, far from "making Death's groundbreaking music available to the greater public", is effectively burying the actual original work deeper, by further validating younger generations' belief that they do in fact have those works handy, and can actually listen to them, when they're in fact listening to a later interpretation by other people of how, in their opinion, those works should have sounded.

You may dislike how the drums sound on 'Leprosy', that's entirely your right, you may even welcome somebody's remix of it that changed it so it sounds more to your liking, that's also your right, but when people tell me their opinion on classic albums and they never heard those actual albums, something is very, very wrong with the music business. That's all. To me, altered versions should be released as such, and ideally, they should include a second CD with the original version, so people can at least compare, and the actual works don't get lost to future generations. But that's not the case, and sadly, outright replacing old albums with revised versions has been commonplace for about two decades, now, and anyone actively contributing to that is no friend of mine.
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:56 pm 
 

Hell, Chuck himself and his musicians stated they were unpleased with some productions of certain albums. The whole 'let's bury the bass' on Human has quite the story, where Di Giorgio insulted Burns over the phone when touring with Sadus on Germany and Chuck apologized and promised him to have the bass more prominently mixed on the next album, which ultimately happened (ITP).

For the fans, the linear notes, the demo tracks and the only guitar/bass/drums tracks are an excellent addition. I, for instance, got the 3cd version of Human for the bass tracks alone. I feel that to re-release the albums only as they were released to being with is pure cashgrab.
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Sick6Six
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:10 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
For the fans, the linear notes, the demo tracks and the only guitar/bass/drums tracks are an excellent addition. I, for instance, got the 3cd version of Human for the bass tracks alone. I feel that to re-release the albums only as they were released to being with is pure cashgrab.

Sounds kind of interesting actually, glad I still own all the originals though and I'd never sell my Chuck signed Leprosy LP.
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:15 pm 
 

I also own all Death albums in their original versions (tapes and cd's) but I also got the Human reissue cause it kick ass. I actually feel the reissue is how Human should have sounded in the first place.
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:40 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
Hell, Chuck himself and his musicians stated they were unpleased with some productions of certain albums. The whole 'let's bury the bass' on Human has quite the story, where Di Giorgio insulted Burns over the phone when touring with Sadus on Germany and Chuck apologized and promised him to have the bass more prominently mixed on the next album, which ultimately happened (ITP).

And maybe Victor Hugo's first draft of 'Notre-Dame de Paris' had a happy ending, but his editor convinced him to change the ending to be more dramatic, but it doesn't mean an editor will go ahead and proudly announce: "Hugo Fans! Because you demanded it! 'The Hunchback of Notre-Dame: the Definitive Remastered Version'", and librarians will remove the original edition from the shelves to make way for the new version.

Kveldulfr wrote:
For the fans, the linear notes, the demo tracks and the only guitar/bass/drums tracks are an excellent addition. I, for instance, got the 3cd version of Human for the bass tracks alone. I feel that to re-release the albums only as they were released to being with is pure cashgrab.

Selling products involves making money. It also involves making the product available for sale. Just as with books, as long as there's a demand, of course, if an album is out-of-print or starts getting hard-to-find, a reissue is in order. That's a basic service you'd expect from a record label. And again, it's not the same thing at all as seizing the opportunity created by the album's scarcity to make your own, altered version of it, and substitute it to the original. Sure, it's always cool to have extra stuff. But is it still extra stuff when don't really get the actual thing it says on the cover that you're buying?

As for cash-grabs, what do you think makes an altered version more interesting for a label to release than an actual reissue, besides the fact that there, sadly, is a demand, obviously? Well, duh. It makes the product they release technically unique, which is interesting for them on the PR and legal fronts. Just pressing new copies of an existing product is less marketable, and less profitable, even though it requires less of an investment early on.
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DreamOfDarkness
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:42 pm 
 

I think it's ok because many Death and Control Denied albums are long out of print and thus sometimes difficult to get (for a reasonable price). Also, I wouldn't consider the sound on the older Death albums "perfect"... especially Human benefits of the remaster by Relapse.
And the Death To All - tour is made entirely for charity purposes, so absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, imo he should focus a little more on the last Control Denied album before remastering all of the other Death albums. Allegedly it was Chuck's last wish to get that one done...

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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:44 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
I also own all Death albums in their original versions (tapes and cd's) but I also got the Human reissue cause it kick ass. I actually feel the reissue is how Human should have sounded in the first place.

No issue there. If you prefer the "director's cut" or other alternate version of a movie to the theatrical version, that's absolutely fine, and in a number of cases, so do I. But the original version remains. It's just that, with music, at some point it was widely accepted that "the cut of year XX", "the cut of year YY" or "the original version" were basically interchangeable.
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Maniac Matis
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:53 pm 
 

DreamOfDarkness wrote:
However, imo he should focus a little more on the last Control Denied album before remastering all of the other Death albums. Allegedly it was Chuck's last wish to get that one done...


Boom.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:15 pm 
 

There have been a lot of issues with that that have prevented it from being completed. The most significant ones that I know of were getting the ancient hard drives that Chuck stored his guitar parts on, then Richard Christy had to pull them off clean, then Morrisound got robbed in 2011 and they only just fully recovered from that this April. I'm honestly not sure if the album ever will be done.
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AuditaTremendi
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:06 pm 
 

I never cared much for Control Denied. Chuck loved 80's metal so i don't understand how he could wind up with such a mediocre
vocalist with a too modern voice. Should've tried to get a clean shouter who could hit high notes. I think i'm going to listen
to the album tonight in bed while reading the final Wheel of Time novel. See if it sounds better than i can remember;i played it
maybe 2 or 3 times when it came out and hasn't been off the shelf ever since.

Had they rereleased the albums with new cover art i just might have bought them. The post Repka covers are soooo awful. I'd love
to display my Individual Thoughtpatterns worship thru a t-shirt,but not with that ugly cover art.

I listened to the remix/master of Individual and had to cover my ears. Terrible. That drumsound drawn to the front...bleeerghh. I give the original album a solid
10/10 but not this crap from Relapse. The production sounds like loose sand now,chaotic. Death is one of my alltime faves and at first i was excited about the
talk of bonus discs,remixes and whatever but not anymore.

There is no Death album with a truly bad sound. It all works fine for me. The raw,filthy Scream Bloody Gore or the digital Individual sound. And what the heck was ever
wrong with Human!? It sounded massive back then,and still does. At least over my Monitor Rx6 speakers and Marantz set.

If it ain't broken...don't fix it.

By the way is it Grief or Greif now? :/

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thrashinbatman
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:07 pm 
 

I'm glad Leprosy is getting remixed. I always had trouble with it when the drums started going fast, cause it sounded like he was just dribbling a basketball as opposed to hitting a snare. I have a problem when remixes change a lot of things, like I wouldn't be cool with a super-cleaned up remix of SBG, because that album greatly benefits from it's murky and dark production. But Human? I was fine with the remix because it was always real muddy and the basslines were buried, which was a shame because they were really interesting.

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Smalley
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:03 am 
 

I agree with him remastering the Death record that kind of need it (like "Human"), but not with the ones that don't really need it, like "Individual Thought Patterns". With the ITP remaster, it felt like he did it just cuz he'd already started remastering their discography, and he figured in for a penny, in for a pound, even for an album that had that pound in the first place, so to speak; even now 2 decades later, ITP sounds absolutely, without a doubt, 100% fuckin' immaculate. So with its remaster, they didn't move "up" at all with its sound (how can you go up when you're already at the tip-top?), so he just moved sideways, and just altered the instrument tones randomly for no reason, which... made the record's sound move down actually, since it needed to just stay the same exact sound. Repress ITP, don't "remaster"!

Anyway, I agree with the guy that wrote all remasters should include a copy of the original version, at any rate.

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VaderCrush
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:24 am 
 

The snare on Leprosy sounds like a broken washing machine and I love it.

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LuciferianImperium
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:16 am 
 

The packaging on the reissues is pure class. I own 4 of them, pretty happy with all the purchases. I wish more bands put so much time and effort into reissues. The only thing I could nitpick is, correct me if i'm wrong since I haven't listened to the originals in years, or the reissues for some time. On Overactive Imagination there is a vocal panning effect thing missing on the reissue. Also on Human See Through Dreams doesn't segue into Cosmic seas like the original on the reissue.
I think the Remixing/remastering on Human sounds great, then again i'm nothing close to an audiophile, I couldn't tell the difference in the Sound Of Perseverance remastering.

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Varth
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:18 pm
Posts: 117
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:29 am 
 

Eh, I like the demos...

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