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Stabwound
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:46 pm
Posts: 194
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:56 pm 
 

It's pretty underwhelming so far, but it could be WAY worse. In any case, I would have rather had another "Heaven & Hell" album than have to listen to Ozzy.

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korgull
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:53 am
Posts: 988
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:05 pm 
 

It felt more to me that in End of the Beginning, they are being totally up front and obvious about purposefully evoking the feel and sound of their 1970 self-titled song (in particular) and are using it to tie-in with the theme of beginnings/endings, rather than just being derivative due to a lack of ideas, or thoughtlessly aping their old parts or whatever. I like this song much more than the single, and really liked the last section with the lead guitar parts. It reminded me of the one slow part in Dirty Women.

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absurder21
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:51 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:51 pm 
 

Lol I find it funny that people are complaining about them ripping themselves off (which is kind of a redundant phrase...), when you know well if it was something totally out there you'd shit on that too. It's kinda worshippy, but their adhering to what they did at the beginning of all this, which was to make the rock equivalent to a horror movie. I don't know if you guys have heard the last few Ozzy records, cos so far these are definitely not bad or terrible.

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Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:11 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:18 pm 
 

Way to assume we all hate it when bands do something radically different.
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MrMcThrasher II
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:03 pm 
 

You guys are retarded at this point.
I would be willing to bet EVERYTHING I own that you guys wouldn't be saying the same things if Tony Martin or someone else were doing the vocals.
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Veracs
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:20 pm 
 

It could be a lot worse though you are exactly right, it could be an almost complete loss and sound like shit bands like Orchid, St.Vitus, and Church of misery.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:54 pm 
 

absurder21 wrote:
Lol I find it funny that people are complaining about them ripping themselves off (which is kind of a redundant phrase...), when you know well if it was something totally out there you'd shit on that too. It's kinda worshippy, but their adhering to what they did at the beginning of all this, which was to make the rock equivalent to a horror movie. I don't know if you guys have heard the last few Ozzy records, cos so far these are definitely not bad or terrible.


How about actually inventive, catchy, kick ass stuff like Heaven & Hell? Why can't we get more material in that vein?
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Last edited by Empyreal on Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Riffs
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Posts: 876
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:06 pm 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
You guys are retarded at this point.
I would be willing to bet EVERYTHING I own that you guys wouldn't be saying the same things if Tony Martin or someone else were doing the vocals.


I don't know who you are referring to but if Tony Martin was doing vocals, about a dozen persons in the entire universe would give a shit and they would probably be debating where their new cock rock magnum opus ranks in terms of heaviness compared to Whitesnake, Motley Crue, Def Leppard and Loverboy. And the biggest question would probably be: have Sabbath-Martin come up with a power ballad that can emasculate a metal fan quicker than Feels Good To Me.

This thread is about the new Ozzy record. I don't know why people keep on bringing up Dio or, of all people, Tony Martin.
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Maniac Matis
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:49 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:33 pm 
 

That God Is Dead? song isn't terrible, but it's painfully mediocre. Sabbath without Bill Ward is boring.
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orionmetalhead
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Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 2453
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:58 pm 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
You guys are retarded at this point.
I would be willing to bet EVERYTHING I own that you guys wouldn't be saying the same things if Tony Martin or someone else were doing the vocals.


I bet it would be far better because on the Martin / Gillan / Dio albums they all took an interest in the actual songwriting with excellent results..
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Peroy
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:44 am
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:01 pm 
 

Nothing excellent on Tyr...

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:07 pm 
 

The new Sabbath proves that God is, in fact, dead.
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orionmetalhead
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:59 pm 
 

Peroy wrote:
Nothing excellent on Tyr...


Touche.
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MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:02 pm 
 

Riffs wrote:
MrMcThrasher II wrote:
You guys are retarded at this point.
I would be willing to bet EVERYTHING I own that you guys wouldn't be saying the same things if Tony Martin or someone else were doing the vocals.


I don't know who you are referring to but if Tony Martin was doing vocals, about a dozen persons in the entire universe would give a shit and they would probably be debating where their new cock rock magnum opus ranks in terms of heaviness compared to Whitesnake, Motley Crue, Def Leppard and Loverboy. And the biggest question would probably be: have Sabbath-Martin come up with a power ballad that can emasculate a metal fan quicker than Feels Good To Me.

This thread is about the new Ozzy record. I don't know why people keep on bringing up Dio or, of all people, Tony Martin.

My problem is that it's become COOL to hate Ozzy. It's doesn't matter HOW good these new songs are (which they're just fine), people, especially in this forum, won't get past the fact Ozzy is doing the vocals.
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Also hopefully they take it as a sign they're not meant to make more albums.

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Metantoine
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Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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Location: Québec
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:17 pm 
 

Veracs wrote:
It could be a lot worse though you are exactly right, it could be an almost complete loss and sound like shit bands like Orchid, St.Vitus, and Church of misery.

Ah man, shut the fuck up. Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase.

Can we please have a kind of decent conversation here?
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IX Leviathan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:17 pm 
 

Veracs wrote:
shit bands like Orchid, St.Vitus, and Church of misery.


Ugh, can you stop being a big pile of AIDS for once in your life?
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Oxenkiller
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:54 pm 
 

Having just heard the new single("God is Dead?" for the first time just yesterday (a little late to the party, I know) all I got to say is... I really like it. It's a great song, well written and I was even impressed with how good Ozzy's voice was on it.

But yet, I can, to a certain extent, understand some of the criticism of it too. When I first heard the song on the radio, without even knowing what I was listening to, my thought was "oh, here's another one of these so-called "Doom metal" bands that are trying a little too hard to sound just like Black Sabbath." And then it was like "Well, that vocalist certainly SOUNDS a lot like Ozzy... but do does Dan Fondelus (the guy from Count Raven) and Scott Weinrich." While at the same time, I also thought the tune was better than the average band that tries to sound like Black Sabbath, if that makes sense. The bass work instantly grabbed me as impressive, and the song structure and riffs were very catchy, even though I could instantly place them as Sabbath-esque riffs.

So, in my opinion, if you are the type of fan who thinks St. Vitus, Orchid, etc are "shit bands" then, well, the new Sabbath probably isn't for you. Me being a fan of the Ozzy-era Sabbath (as well as the Dio era) I dig the "God is Dead?" song. Hope to hear the rest of the album, too.

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Xlxlx
May contain traces of nuts

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:33 pm 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
You guys are retarded at this point.
I would be willing to bet EVERYTHING I own that you guys wouldn't be saying the same things if Tony Martin or someone else were doing the vocals.

Bull. Shit. Those of us who don't like the new songs feel that way because they sound painfully mediocre and generic for Sabbath's standards. Sure, the fact that Ozzy's voice is completely shot doesn't help in any way, but the worst part here is the fact that the music sounds uninspired. Hell, many people put up with Ozzy in the early material because the songs are amazing, but that is not the case here. He's not an advantage, but he's not the main problem either.

Besides, using some made up excuse to invalidate other people's aversion for something is pretty lame.
Riffs wrote:
*stuff about Tony Martin and cock rock*

Riffs, you're a cool dude, but yours is a rather ridiculous (not to mention extreme) statement. Deny it all you want, but this very board is solid proof that much more than a dozen people would like a Sabbath reunion with Tony Martin.
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Riffs
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Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:36 am 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Riffs wrote:
*stuff about Tony Martin and cock rock*

Riffs, you're a cool dude, but yours is a rather ridiculous (not to mention extreme) statement. Deny it all you want, but this very board is solid proof that much more than a dozen people would like a Sabbath reunion with Tony Martin.


Of course, buddy. It's a humorous and obviously exaggerated statement. I'd rather not derail the thread much further but in another thread or by PM, I'm always glad to discuss my favorite band!

We agree on one point, I think. I don't feel it's useful when people bring up other eras to validate or invalidate opinions on new Sabbath songs which should be judged for what they are.
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soul_schizm
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:37 am 
 

Well, I don't think it's *that* bad and I'll probably buy it, along with the other million or so blokes who feel the same way.

Hey, it's likely costing Ozzy his marriage. Pony up, dudes. :)

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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
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Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:45 am 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
My problem is that it's become COOL to hate Ozzy. It's doesn't matter HOW good these new songs are (which they're just fine), people, especially in this forum, won't get past the fact Ozzy is doing the vocals.


I understand but you can't assume everyone who is underwhelmed by those songs is automatically hating Ozzy.

I'm a huge fan of early Sabbath and Ozzy solo material. Whenever I'm in a band, I always make sure we'll cover some of this stuff. This new stuff is underwhelming to me nonetheless. I like the second song better but the first one just doesn't appeal to me. It's flat, boring, pointless.

It's got nothing to do with Tony Martin, whom I don't want anywhere near Sabbath. An opinion that fortunately seems to be shared by Tony and Geezer.
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ralfikk123
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:14 am
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:04 am 
 

Riffs wrote:
It's got nothing to do with Tony Martin, whom I don't want anywhere near Sabbath.

Care to explain why?
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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
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Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:42 am 
 

ralfikk123 wrote:
Riffs wrote:
It's got nothing to do with Tony Martin, whom I don't want anywhere near Sabbath.

Care to explain why?


I find his singing just doesn't suit the kind of music Iommi is best at creating.
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Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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PvtNinjer
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 am
Posts: 2517
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:50 am 
 

Metantoine wrote:
Veracs wrote:
It could be a lot worse though you are exactly right, it could be an almost complete loss and sound like shit bands like Orchid, St.Vitus, and Church of misery.

Ah man, shut the fuck up. Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase.

Can we please have a kind of decent conversation here?


While God is Dead? is absolutely, completely mediocre. I can't believe this dude just said Saint Vitus is worse. Really, dude?

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ralfikk123
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:29 am 
 

Riffs wrote:
I find his singing just doesn't suit the kind of music Iommi is best at creating.

What do you think of Dio in Sabbath?
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Terri23
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:31 am 
 

Someone should make a separate thread on Sabbath discussing the singers, this convo is derailing the thread.
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ENKC
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:26 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
Someone should make a separate thread on Sabbath discussing the singers, this convo is derailing the thread.

Welcome to every thread about Sabbath ever. It's like expecting to discuss Megadeth without some Metallica flame war erupting.

And The End of the Beginning... eh, it's about as 'self referential' as it gets, but what else do you expect if you want the 'classic' Sabbath sound?
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Riffs
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:31 am 
 

ralfikk123 wrote:
Riffs wrote:
I find his singing just doesn't suit the kind of music Iommi is best at creating.

What do you think of Dio in Sabbath?


I love it. As much as the Ozzy-era (especially since Dio is my favorite singer of all times) but I see them as two separate entities. I was glad they eventually went with another name. Didn't enjoy their last effort as much, though.

Terri is right. Let's focus on this album!

Live version of God Is Dead. Ozzy again sounds like shit but I'm actually starting to actively dislike Rick Rubin's production job. The song is still not great but is more tolerable to me live:

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ralfikk123
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:56 am 
 

Yes I agree with Terri too, but my main reason for asking was that, how can you like Dio but hate Tony Martin when the two have such similar voices and styles. Seems a little odd. But yeah, let's focus on the album.
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BloodSacrificeShaman
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Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 3:20 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:24 am 
 

I actually prefer Tony to Dio. His vocals on Tyr are just mindblowingly outstanding.

As for that video, I'll agree, the song sounds better live. In fact, it sounds pretty damn good there (although there is not enough Geezer in that video!).
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Kveldulfr
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
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Location: Chile
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:25 am 
 

For Cthulhu's sake, Ozzy! shut the fuck up! he's mumbling something like he was a cassette player going slower.

Is the drummer Clufetos? he's hitting the air more than the drumkit!
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Riffs
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
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Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:42 am 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:

Is the drummer Clufetos? he's hitting the air more than the drumkit!


Yes, it is indeed Clufetos behind the kit. Another lame Sabbath decision.
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Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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The Lions Den
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Location: Italy
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:41 am 
 

Hype for me.

Listen to 'God is dead?' and the live version of 'End of beginning' and sounds really good to me.

'God is dead?' has something of dark and disturbing :evil:
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Crick
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:51 pm 
 

That live video makes me like the studio version more. Good fucking lord Ozzy, are you even alive?
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brandon1986
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:39 pm 
 

To me Ozzy is not even the weakest part of the 2 songs. It is the the repetitiveness of the songs. It is like they are trying to remake the title track to their debut over and over again, nothing really sticks out and nothing really grabs my attention(outside of the last 3 minutes of god is dead) . The production on the single was bad as well.

If tony martin was on this track I would say the same thing. I wanted a ozzy sabbath album I may regret that I got my wish, if the rest of the album sounds like the first two tracks of the album.

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Stabwound
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:46 pm
Posts: 194
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:06 pm 
 

Riffs wrote:

(re: Tony Martin)

I find his singing just doesn't suit the kind of music Iommi is best at creating.

I can completely agree with this. Iommi is a god at huge, heavy and crushing riffs, and to be totally fair Ozzy is much better than Martin for that kind of music.

Having said that, The Devil You Know had some of their best songs ever and I honestly think Dio would have been better.




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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:37 pm 
 

Riffs wrote:
I find (Tony Martin's) singing just doesn't suit the kind of music Iommi is best at creating.


You are so painfully wrong that I don't know if I should feel sorry for you or mock you.
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absurder21
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:51 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:

How about actually inventive, catchy, kick ass stuff like Heaven & Hell? Why can't we get more material in that vein?

What was particularly inventive about The Devil You Know? the approach was almost exactly the same: Lets make this big heavy, foreboding sound that we're known for and pair with the fantastical and occult atmospheres that Dio is famous for. This is exactly the same except switch out fantasy for rock n roll. The only thing that might actually make a quality difference is that Rick Rubin is probably going to overstretch the rest of the songs too like on Death Magnetic, but other then that Iommi and Geezer's riff approach seem like it's the same.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:27 pm 
 

absurder21 wrote:
Empyreal wrote:

How about actually inventive, catchy, kick ass stuff like Heaven & Hell? Why can't we get more material in that vein?

What was particularly inventive about The Devil You Know? the approach was almost exactly the same: Lets make this big heavy, foreboding sound that we're known for and pair with the fantastical and occult atmospheres that Dio is famous for. This is exactly the same except switch out fantasy for rock n roll. The only thing that might actually make a quality difference is that Rick Rubin is probably going to overstretch the rest of the songs too like on Death Magnetic, but other then that Iommi and Geezer's riff approach seem like it's the same.


The songs were great and added new, fresh additions to the Sabbath catalog. None of them were blatant rip offs like these new tracks are, and the band used their existing sound, like any great band does, to craft new and unique sounding material while not going totally off the map. It was just a great piece of metal. People using the strawman "people hate them either way" are just being silly. We just want good songs.

Which, to be fair, these new songs aren't really too bad either. They're OK. But nowhere near TDYK or their classic material at all...
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Riffs
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:39 pm 
 

OpsiusCato wrote:
Riffs wrote:
I find (Tony Martin's) singing just doesn't suit the kind of music Iommi is best at creating.


You are so painfully wrong that I don't know if I should feel sorry for you or mock you.


Well you can always feel sorry for me but you can only mock me when you're not busy servicing Tony Martin.
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