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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:41 am 
 

I don't get why anyone would've thought from the start that the drumming would suck. Wilk is a damn fine player.
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soul_schizm
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:59 am 
 

I don't see anything here that would dampen my enthusiasm. I'm sure part of it is that they carefully edit the clips so you can't hear much other than part of older songs, and a precious few tid-bits of new material.

I'm just buying this when it comes out no matter what, regardless. If it sucks, so be it. It's new Black Sabbath. If anyone has earned an impulse buy mentality, it's Iommi/Butler.

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MrMcThrasher II
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:40 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
I don't get why anyone would've thought from the start that the drumming would suck. Wilk is a damn fine player.

You wouldn't guess it from his playing in RATM though...
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:32 am 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
As ANA pointed out, Appice is hardly responsible for the drumming on TDYK (this was either some programming as ANA says, or Iommi and Butler just fed Appice specific drum parts to play in a specific way, AC/DC style; I heard it both ways).


Oh yeah, a minor slip on my part: the drums aren't programmed, but Dio and Iommi apparently programmed parts and then presented them to Appice saying "That's what you're playing". Shame really, because I saw him live on that tour and he definitely still had "it". And yes, 'The Sign of the Southern Cross' is one hell of song for drumming.

My mind wonders as to whether Wilk is going to get Sabbath singing about the virtues of communism... just a thought. :D
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Evil_Wicked_Twisted_Mind
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Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:58 am
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:32 am 
 

ANationalAcrobat wrote:
LegendMaker wrote:
As ANA pointed out, Appice is hardly responsible for the drumming on TDYK (this was either some programming as ANA says, or Iommi and Butler just fed Appice specific drum parts to play in a specific way, AC/DC style; I heard it both ways).


Oh yeah, a minor slip on my part: the drums aren't programmed, but Dio and Iommi apparently programmed parts and then presented them to Appice saying "That's what you're playing". Shame really, because I saw him live on that tour and he definitely still had "it". And yes, 'The Sign of the Southern Cross' is one hell of song for drumming.

My mind wonders as to whether Wilk is going to get Sabbath singing about the virtues of communism... just a thought. :D


There have been problems between Wilk and Sabbath since day one since Brad will not be receiving orders as he would never do what they tell him.
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Peroy
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Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:44 am
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:35 am 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
Subrick wrote:
I don't get why anyone would've thought from the start that the drumming would suck. Wilk is a damn fine player.

You wouldn't guess it from his playing in RATM though...


Actually, you would...

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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:06 am 
 

I don't know why people hate so much Appice's performance, I think it suits very well the doom nature of the album. In fact, I like the simplicity and power of the performance, which contrasts so much with the current overbusy drumming that plagues everything. I wouldn't like to see the dummer jumping like a monkey playing Children of the Grave.
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Riffs
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:55 am 
 

ANationalAcrobat wrote:

Oh yeah, a minor slip on my part: the drums aren't programmed, but Dio and Iommi apparently programmed parts and then presented them to Appice saying "That's what you're playing".


Where did you hear that?
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Riffs
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:04 am 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
I don't know why people hate so much Appice's performance, I think it suits very well the doom nature of the album. In fact, I like the simplicity and power of the performance, which contrasts so much with the current overbusy drumming that plagues everything. I wouldn't like to see the dummer jumping like a monkey playing Children of the Grave.


But Black Sabbath is one of the best rock (not just metal. All of fucking rock) bands that ever existed. The formulaic doom nature of that whole album is a problem, considering the legendary stuff they can come up with. They're capable of so much more. Let some shmucks in Sweden come up with repetitive doom albums is how I feel.

Also, I don't think drums need to be busy to have some life. Simplicity is good but monotony is not. Can't say Bill Ward was distracting and doing too much.
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Riffs
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:08 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
I don't get why anyone would've thought from the start that the drumming would suck. Wilk is a damn fine player.


Oh, I know. He is indeed a fine drummer. I was more worried about the feel it might give the music. Based on what I am hearing, this won't be a problem.

I still think it is a bad choice, if only because they can't really work as a band with a guy who has other commitments. But Iommi stopped taking chances long ago and has become extremely lazy when it comes to choosing musicians.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:30 am 
 

The Devil You Know is sublime. Huge, heavy, fuckin' evil atmosphere, riffs, vocals, etc. Just a great work of metal.
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dystopia4
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:55 am 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
Subrick wrote:
I don't get why anyone would've thought from the start that the drumming would suck. Wilk is a damn fine player.

You wouldn't guess it from his playing in RATM though...


I can dig the first Rage album. This whole he was in RATM, it's going to suck attitude is silly. Although most of their albums weren't great, he was never a bad drummer. I credit them losing it after their first album to their success; how the hell can you be a convincing angry anti-capitalist band when you're getting rich off the capitalist system you claim to hate? Haha, my dad actually knows the guy who produced their first album.

I think this new Black Sabbath will be fine. I don't think they'd be willing to damage their legacy, so they probably won't do any of the silly trendy stuff Ozzy is currently dabbling in with his solo career.
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Peroy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:48 pm 
 

dystopia4 wrote:
I can dig the first Rage album. This whole he was in RATM, it's going to suck attitude is silly. Although most of their albums weren't great, he was never a bad drummer. I credit them losing it after their first album to their success; how the hell can you be a convincing angry anti-capitalist band when you're getting rich off the capitalist system you claim to hate? Haha, my dad actually knows the guy who produced their first album.


I second that. While there really is no need to get any RAtM record besides the debut and maybe "Evil Empire", at least their self titled one is widely considered a classic and rightfully so. That's an utterly excellent record... may not be metal (though that's arguable), may not be very extreme, yes, there are rap vocals on this (granted, not my favorite singing-style), but, good lord, do the songs ever rule so hard...

So this band may not be everyone's cup of tea, but there's no need to irrationally hate on them...

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I think this new Black Sabbath will be fine. I don't think they'd be willing to damage their legacy, so they probably won't do any of the silly trendy stuff Ozzy is currently dabbling in with his solo career.


And I'll second that, too... to expect a record that's en par with a "Paranoid" or "Heaven and Hell" may be wishfull thinking, but at the very least "13" should turn out to be better than "Never Say Die!" or "Forbidden" (arguably the low points in Sabbath's full-length discography, and even those were somewhat listenable).

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Crick
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:46 pm 
 

I'm mainly just glad to hear Ozzy sounding good (if not great, perhaps). Seeing Rubin tell him to retry the line he fucked up is comforting.
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ModusOperandi
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:10 am 
 

^ I can get behind this. For all of Rubin's faults and flaws about how he's perceived as being apathetic when he's present if not being absent altogether from recording sessions for the albums he's credited on, he has no qualms about telling anyone to do another, better take than the last. Ozzy needs that more than anyone in Black Sabbath and working with someone who's not Kevin Churko who's more than happy to be a "patch-it-in" kind of producer should get at minimum a non-offensive performance out of him.

Since the decision to have Brad Wilk as (for now) the session drummer is still hot for debate, look back through the band's history of drummers that have passed through the ranks not named Bill Ward. Is it really that startling of a selection in retrospect? Would having Ozzy's current sticksman really have lessened the sting? I doubt it. This band has survived and made some damn fine albums without Ward with some drummers whose names I'm sure garnished some double-takes at the time. Whether Wilk's playing what he's told or allowed to have a say on his performance, this is still very much on the shoulders of Tony and Geezer which is no different than how the band's songwriting dynamic was during their classic era, anyway.
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TadGhostal
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:26 am 
 

Riffs wrote:
ANationalAcrobat wrote:

Oh yeah, a minor slip on my part: the drums aren't programmed, but Dio and Iommi apparently programmed parts and then presented them to Appice saying "That's what you're playing".


Where did you hear that?


Vinny talked about it in an interview. I read it on the boards over at black-sabbath.com a while back. I guess a lot of people were asking him why the drumming of TDYK was so subdued. It makes sense. From what I understand about the original Sabbath, Tony would bring in a riff and he, Geezer, and Bill would jam it out until it became a song. When Ronnie joined, things changed because Ronnie didn't like writing that way. He liked sitting down and working out a song with someone (generally Tony when it came to Sabbath) and then presenting it to the band to be recorded. When you write like that, it makes sense to gravitate to a drum machine during the writing process. Bill talked about not joining Heaven and Hell because they wanted him to play a very rigid style and that's not Bill. I've often wondered if this was one of the issues why Bill isn't part of the reunion, as well.

As for Brad Wilk, he'll be fine. The guy's a solid drummer. Man, I HATE Rage Against the Machine, but the problem with the band is not the musical ability of the players. I always felt the Jason Roeder from Neurosis would have been a good fit for Sabbath or Tony's solo projects because he has the percussive feeling like Bill, but I'm sure sure he was never on Iommi and Co. radar.

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UNCHAIN_THE_WOLVES
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:11 am 
 

Hope this one is decent... but won't get my hopes up... The Devil You know proves they can still write good songs and in my opinion Ozzy's still got the voice... his solo songs are a joke, he can't string a sentence together, the man can hardly keep himself upright let alone walk... saw him live back in 2008 and he can still sing... and the best and only true Sabbath for me will always be the ozzy era...

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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:55 am 
 

No much to say about the new clip beyond that fact that I'm glad to see that Ozzy doesn't sound like a warbling mummy and that Rick is fairly involved in the process.
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Misfit74
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:19 pm 
 

I like Rage Against The Machine a good amount, but I don't expect to hear any hints of it on this album's drumming. Which is to say I'm not worried about it. They're not likely to re-invent the Black Sabbath drumming style. I don't expect Wilk has the latitude to do so, either.
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Morfiend
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:31 pm 
 

Can't wait for this!
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Paka01
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:43 pm 
 

I heard Ozzy left the band again, does anyone know anything more about it?
Apparently Iommi asked Glenn Hughes to sing on "13".

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?m ... mID=188179
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Eh_Timeghoul
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:24 pm 
 

^April Fool's?? (and that was a link to a queensryche story) i mean fuckin over Bill and givin the gig to a 90s cock-rocker is one thing, i was still gonna give it a shot, but bringing back Glenn Hughes? fuck right off, that guy always sucked.

i really hope that's bad jokes/rumor on your part

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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:57 pm 
 

Paka01 wrote:
I heard Ozzy left the band again, does anyone know anything more about it?
Apparently Iommi asked Glenn Hughes to sing on "13".

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?m ... mID=188179


Well, Iommi and Hughes are due for another album together...
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shouvince
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:51 pm 
 

Artwork and a short teaser of a new song!

Image



Oh man...

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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:58 pm 
 

'Twas too short to say something, but I didn't like how Ozzy sounded, nor the drum sound. The guitars and bass are fine as always.
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dystopia4
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:14 pm 
 

Ozzy actually sounded a lot better there than he has on his recent albums. Judging from the clip it's not enough to say if the album will be good, but it doesn't sound like anything atrocious that will damage their legacy.
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:30 pm 
 

You mean this?

I already got this. Why u no give me something new, BS?!

:|
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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:32 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
'Twas too short to say something, but I didn't like how Ozzy sounded, nor the drum sound. The guitars and bass are fine as always.

Pretty much this. I wasn't bothered by the way Ozzy's voice or the drums were produced, but they could be better.
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:42 pm 
 

In that short clip, Ozzy sounds bored. Not intruguing, menacing or barely interesting, just trying to sing the safest as possible. It doesn't sound ridiculously autotuned, but hell, that was flat as shit.
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MrMcThrasher II
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:03 pm 
 

I liked the sample. Release the full song now dammit!
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Razakel
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:56 pm 
 

The album artwork is predictably rather dumb, but that's what the title would lead you to believe. The little sample, on the other hand, was actually pretty cool. Sounds like a totally classic Iommi riff and I honestly didn't think Ozzy sounded too bad, although how much can you really judge based off of like three seconds.

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wreath_of_coils
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:20 pm 
 

Sabbath has a few shitty lookin covers. I would like to think this one will turn out beast, being that the Heaven and Hell record kicked so much ass. As stated, I want to hear a full song in it's complete form. That clip sounds promising. The opening riff reminds me of Hole in the Sky a bit.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:09 pm 
 

That's the best album art we could get with such a bland title, and the sample is promising, but really too short to speculate anything much. Oh well.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:19 pm 
 

Maybe I'm insane but did anyone else think of this song when they heard Ozzy's opening lines?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICR9EE4JTYs

But yeah, the art is okay and the sample sounds promising. Not too far off from Heaven And Hell in the guitar tone but there's no way to tell how it'll actually be...
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ralfikk123
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:46 pm 
 

Pretty cool riff, Tony does it again. The drums sound meh. As for the vocals, can't say anything that already hasn't been said.
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volutetheswarth
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:55 pm 
 

volutetheswarth wrote:
I'm just waiting for an equally uninspired cover with 'Black Sabbath' taking up the top half and a '13' in green smoke.
I totally almost called this one, just swap around the green smoke with fire.

Well at least we got some foreboding trees.

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CF_Mono
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:31 pm 
 

Yeah that cover really doesn't make sense. Unless this album makes a lot of references to the taboo behind the number 13 and is filled with mysticism, I don't see the cover/title having any positive effect. As for the riffs so far, they're good, but I'm not applauding the production.
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Misfit74
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:13 am 
 

This is going to be just fine. Classic riffing and solid production that's modern but not too modern for Black Sabbath. I can dig it.
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wreath_of_coils
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:34 am 
 

HWLights92 wrote:
By_Inheritance wrote:
I think everyone's too old and it's been too long to pull off a truly great album. Ozzy's voice is terrible these days so having him slur over some generic riffs doesn't sound very fun to me.


As far as his voice being terrible have you heard David Bowie's new song? I'm a big Bowie fan and I was shocked at how old his voice has gotten so Ozzy's vocals don't scare me.

If anything I'm worried about the choice of drummer but even that's passable. I think Sabbath has been apart so long that each member who came back was able to bring enough to the table that a good album is possible. I for one can't wait for June.


Ozzy will be ok on this. And I don't think Iommi is going to skimp in the riff department. So there should be plenty good there. The drumming will be what it has mostly been in a Ward-less Sabbath, nothing spectacular but still solid and to the point.

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shouvince
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:38 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
That's the best album art we could get with such a bland title, and the sample is promising, but really too short to speculate anything much. Oh well.


Yeah somewhat but I still feel they played it safe as far as the album art goes. With regards to the sample, the riff caught me by surprise. Thought it sounded really good. Ozzy on the other hand sounded as if he was drugged up to be kept awake...but that's Ozzy, still sounds better than what I would've expected earlier.

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