Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 



This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9541
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:22 pm 
 

Thashierthanthou wrote:
Some girls boys are into metal because of the image/getting tons of praise by metalheads simply by having a vagina for being "part of the metal brotherhood". Some girls boys are into metal because they like the music. The same applies to female band members Who cares, it doesn't effect you what somebody's motive to listening to/performing music is.
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

Top
 Profile  
Cloud0129
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:04 pm
Posts: 167
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:24 pm 
 

I'm seriously surprised that this topic wasn't closed

Top
 Profile  
Thashierthanthou
Not Semi-Witty Enough for his Own Title

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:04 pm
Posts: 2292
Location: Mushroom Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:31 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Thashierthanthou wrote:
Some girls boys are into metal because of the image/getting tons of praise by metalheads simply by having a vagina for being "part of the metal brotherhood". Some girls boys are into metal because they like the music. The same applies to female band members Who cares, it doesn't effect you what somebody's motive to listening to/performing music is.

Yeah that's completely true also. I only singled out women because that's the topic at hand. Some people are into metal for the music, some are into it for other reasons, whether its to be a part of something, because they think the shirts look cool, or whatever other reason. Whatever, let'm do what they want.
_________________
Subrick wrote:
opet is tree metal! there early albums talk about trees!

They should have talked about why failsafeman sucks!

Top
 Profile  
Desperta_Ferro
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:45 am
Posts: 602
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:32 pm 
 

haha I met tons of dudes who just want to look tough, come on. Is everywhere. Funny thing is, some girls like metal, but never get "into" it because of dudes like Civil.

Top
 Profile  
Poisonfume
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:26 pm
Posts: 1120
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:47 pm 
 

Cloud0129 wrote:
I'm seriously surprised that this topic wasn't closed


Me too, it's barely a discussion at all. Either the mods are having too much fun with this or they're letting themselves be trolled.
_________________
LegendMaker on pointless genre dissection wrote:
Will you in turn help me classify the shemale/ladyboy, tranny/ladyboy, ladyboy-shemale/tranny, and tranny-ladyboy/shemale sub-folders of my shemale/ladyboy/tranny collection?

Top
 Profile  
Panflute
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:11 am
Posts: 450
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:56 pm 
 

So people in metal are overly concerned with image?

What a revolutionary observation.
_________________
Black Ivory Tower zine #1 - Interbellum out now!

Top
 Profile  
Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 8673
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:12 pm 
 

Poisonfume wrote:
Cloud0129 wrote:
I'm seriously surprised that this topic wasn't closed


Me too, it's barely a discussion at all. Either the mods are having too much fun with this or they're letting themselves be trolled.

I'll go for the "having fun" part. Also, minimodding is pretty damn lame, if the only thing you add to the thread is "LOL this thread should be closed" you're not doing yourself a favor and should gtfo before I make you do so.

Perhaps the name of the thread is misleading (this wasn't my doing) but we could easily discuss of the woman's actual place in metal without any kind of hostility.
_________________
Jonpo wrote:
I'll ALWAYS prefer flashing girls in the park though. That's just more my style.

Metantoine's Magickal Realm
Last.fm
Halberd (doom/death)

Top
 Profile  
xThe__Wizard
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 845
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:32 pm 
 

Well I'm going to be honest and say that I dislike female fronted bands because they are generally a gimmick. It's usually a female singer or a keyboard player (ooh!). They don't really add to the group dynamic and a lot of times it seems like they were just added because of tits.

Of course there are some great bands with females in them. However whenever I see "Female fronted black metal" I instantly despise it because of how it is presented and how bad female singers can be in my opinion.
_________________
Western NY Metal Scene Facebook page.
Controlled by Fear. Grindcore. Split with Special Buddy Discount out now.

Top
 Profile  
Carpathianchrist
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:34 pm
Posts: 387
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:53 pm 
 

xThe__Wizard wrote:
Well I'm going to be honest and say that I dislike female fronted bands because they are generally a gimmick. It's usually a female singer or a keyboard player (ooh!). They don't really add to the group dynamic and a lot of times it seems like they were just added because of tits.

Of course there are some great bands with females in them. However whenever I see "Female fronted black metal" I instantly despise it because of how it is presented and how bad female singers can be in my opinion.


I agree. Any band that markets itself on the basis of having a female member is retarded. As soon as I see "Female Fronted" I ignore and whenever there is a female keyboard player I anticipate her being called "Lilith".

Actually listening to a female fronted black metal band as I type, but not once have I seen their music marketed as such.

Top
 Profile  
Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9541
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:18 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
Perhaps the name of the thread is misleading (this wasn't my doing) but we could easily discuss of the woman's actual place in metal without any kind of hostility.

It was my doing, basically mocking Civil's bogus "arguments".
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

Top
 Profile  
somberlain93
I'm not sexist, I have binders full of women friends!

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:20 am
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:24 pm 
 

To take the unpopular side of the discussion.......... It's sadly been my experience that most girls care way less about music than guys, specially true in metal. 95% of the girls I've known, dated or been friends with or even talked to online are just way less dedicated and more likely to give bad answers when you try to talk to them about music.

For example.........

Quote:
Me: You like Dissection?

Girl: Oh yeah, I love them! They're one of the best!

Me: That's awesome. Which album do you prefer?

Girl: I don't really pay attention to names and albums.

Me: So you don't know which songs your favorites are?

Girl: No, I don't know the names of any songs or albums, I just know I like it when I hear it.


I'm always left thinking "what the fuck"? You're wearing the band's t-shirt, maybe even a tattoo of their logo or something in extreme cases, but you can't tell me the name of one song? Seriously?

Girls in general just listen to (or say they listen to) whatever their bf or guy friends tell them is good/cool and don't even try to get deeper into it than that. There's a reason so many girls are attracted to bands like Watain, with more hype than substance.

I don't say that all girls are posers and no girls know anything about metal. That's wrong and there are male posers too, but the ratio is in favour of uneducated, non-serious girls more than ones that really know their shit........ in my experience in the last decade and a half.

To the girls that are dedicated metallers and are the exception to this, hail to you!
_________________
The idiot that put that text under my username needs to grow up.


Last edited by somberlain93 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
FasterDisaster
OMG WAT DOES THIS CAPS LOCK KEY DO

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Posts: 6341
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:26 pm 
 

Some men are into music for the fashion and not so much the music. Some women are also into music for the fashion and not so much the music. Conversely, there are people who don't give a shit about the fashion and are into the music, both men and women. There are also men and women who are into the music and totally into the fashion, and it's completely genuine both ways.

Is it too late to have an intelligent discussion, or are we just pointing out the obvious?
_________________
Abominatrix wrote:
No way, that sounds great...especially the asparagus. Mmmm yes indeed.

Top
 Profile  
Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 881
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:15 am 
 

Civil wrote:
Riffs, you have no right to call me a misogynist. As much as your biased view "wants" to pigenhole me into being one, I am not one. And the points I have made are about the conditions of the production of music and how I see the data relating to the facts.


Yeah, and how you see the data relating to the supposed facts is a load of unsubstantiated misogynistic bullshit. And that is why I am calling you a misogynist. Isn't it funny that you can read minds and magically decide that females are in a scene for superficial purposes, but you pretend I have no right to call you out for your own words?

Civil wrote:
I have underlined my appreciation of female metal musicians and made it clear that I would like to see more of them involved.


The oldest trick in the book. "I've got nothing against black people. I'm even friends with one of them! But..."

Civil wrote:
But the driving force of popular, and erudite music, has been done, all throughout human history, both in the west and in eastern cultures (Chinese, Indian, Japanese, Middle Eastern), by men. These are facts. Not opinions.


At the risk of repeating myself because you do not seem to understand: I gladly acknowledge these facts.

The problem is how you interpret those facts. Your shady "observations" colored by your bigoted views and biases are what I disagree with.
_________________
mjollnir wrote:
Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

Top
 Profile  
Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 18892
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:18 am 
 

somberlain93 wrote:
To take the unpopular side of the discussion.......... It's sadly been my experience that most girls care way less about music than guys, specially true in metal. 95% of the girls I've known, dated or been friends with or even talked to online are just way less dedicated and more likely to give bad answers when you try to talk to them about music.

...

Girls in general just listen to (or say they listen to) whatever their bf or guy friends tell them is good/cool and don't even try to get deeper into it than that. There's a reason so many girls are attracted to bands like Watain, with more hype than substance.



Oh, bullshit. Half the girls I know love music and get into it as much as any guy. Take your generalizations and get out.
_________________
Cinema Freaks latest reviews: Dead Silence

Top
 Profile  
Civil
I'm not sexist, I have binders full of women friends!

Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:58 pm
Posts: 112
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:58 am 
 

Riffs wrote:

The oldest trick in the book. "I've got nothing against black people. I'm even friends with one of them! But..."


Pffff, you sink to the level of calling me a racist. THIS is the oldest trick in the book. Are you gonna compare me to Hitler next? Use an Ad Hitlerum argument?

In no moment I have been mysoginist. I do NOT accept to be called this by you, or anyone else, because I'm not one.

Contrary to you, I haven't called anyone stupid or douche or any names, just exposed facts and how things have worked historically regarding cultural production and gender. On the other hand I have been called "mental", "asnine" and the such by "balanced" people like you.

Of course, I am done discussing the subject with you. Feel free to deny information that contradicts your belief-system, throw hate at people that show you this information and twist and distort what they say so they seem evil and simplistic.

The facts stand, and you are a coward for using this ridiculous arguments of calling me a racist and a bigot. This is insulting, I do not accept to be called these things, and I won't waste my time talking to you anymore.

Next thing you will be calling me a child molester. Like I said, it's typical. Show information that contradicts what one wants to be true and prepare to be subjected to anger, fire and brimstone, and have people going on a ridiculous witch-hunt against you. Simply pathethic of you.

Top
 Profile  
somberlain93
I'm not sexist, I have binders full of women friends!

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:20 am
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:18 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
somberlain93 wrote:
To take the unpopular side of the discussion.......... It's sadly been my experience that most girls care way less about music than guys, specially true in metal. 95% of the girls I've known, dated or been friends with or even talked to online are just way less dedicated and more likely to give bad answers when you try to talk to them about music.

...

Girls in general just listen to (or say they listen to) whatever their bf or guy friends tell them is good/cool and don't even try to get deeper into it than that. There's a reason so many girls are attracted to bands like Watain, with more hype than substance.



Oh, bullshit. Half the girls I know love music and get into it as much as any guy. Take your generalizations and get out.


And take your lack of reading and comprehension and gtfo. I clearly said this is based on MY EXPERIENCE, so your argument about "Generalizations" is wrong. Obviously, our experiences have been different. Nice try. :D
_________________
The idiot that put that text under my username needs to grow up.

Top
 Profile  
Nochielo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 1515
Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:20 am 
 

I'd wager that if we take the number of male metal posers and divide it by the number of male true metal fans and compare it to its homologous calculation regarding females, the resulting ratio would be very similar. But I (or anyone else, for that matter) can read minds, so we can't ascertain the real number of posers accurately, making any study of this particular subject impossible and it follows that any conclusions made are (surprise, surprise) bullshit.

Many ladies like music. Many ladies like fashion and makeup and such. The groups are not mutually exclusive, I'm sure that the groups overlap. If I cared enough to get data on both variables, I'd build you a nice, little Venn diagram. Moving on the idea that most women fake their enjoyment of the music just to dress the part is ludicrous. Like they couldn't do that without being involved in the scene. It's like saying a guy joins a touring band because he likes driving vans.

EDIT: Grammar


Last edited by Nochielo on Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9541
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:51 am 
 

Civil wrote:
Pffff, you sink to the level of calling me a racist. THIS is the oldest trick in the book. Are you gonna compare me to Hitler next? Use an Ad Hitlerum argument?
[dishonest whining edited]
Next thing you will be calling me a child molester. Like I said, it's typical. Show information that contradicts what one wants to be true and prepare to be subjected to anger, fire and brimstone, and have people going on a ridiculous witch-hunt against you. Simply pathethic of you.

Except... He didn't call you a racist. He compared your arguments of "I'm not sexist, I respect Jo Bench" to the "I'm not racist, I have black friends" rhetoric, because it's exactly the same kind of rhetoric. He's not dishonest; you are, with your faux-outraged tantrum.
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

Top
 Profile  
Goatfangs
Wicker Mantis

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:02 pm
Posts: 2202
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:59 am 
 

There is a local "tour" of sorts called the Damsels of Darkness. It's more of a series of shows that feature bands that either have a female lead or just a female member. I don't recall any band being entirely female. Some of the bands on last year's tour were Necromance (now Mind Maze), Mistress, Save The Zombies and Our Ashes Remain. Most of these bands have good friends of mine in them. While many of them fit societies standard of what's "beautiful", none of them are in it for the image. They are all hard working local musicians that support the scene to the best of their ability.

I don't normally go out and launch insults toward people on this board, but I'm going to go ahead and assume that this misogynistic attitude of "Civil" (HAH! What an ironic name) is the result of an ex-girlfriend cutting off a sizable portion (maybe a centimeter) of his penis after she was so insulted by him. That's assuming he even ever got to the point where he could call a girl a girlfriend.

Civil wrote:
Next thing you will be calling me a child molester.


Also, Civil is a child molester. Pedophile. Baby rapist.

Apologize ahead of time to everyone else for being so uncivil to Civil.
_________________
And they'll tell you black is really white - The moon is just the sun at night - And when you walk in golden halls - You get to keep the gold that falls - It's Heaven and Hell

7|10|42-RIP-5|16|10

Top
 Profile  
Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 5801
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:11 am 
 

Funny that you mention that, as Sorrowseed is doing that "tour" as well. I'm only doing a couple shows with them on it as I'm really not in the live playing mindset at the moment considering I'm writing stuff for my own group, but I can't pass up playing at Championship Bar as a crapton of bands have drawn good crowds there.
_________________
YouTube
Facebook
Sorrowseed Melodic Extreme Metal
Blacksoul Seraphim Doomgaze
Thy Ancient Crypt Blackened Death Metal

Top
 Profile  
Goatfangs
Wicker Mantis

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:02 pm
Posts: 2202
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:18 am 
 

You play in Sorrowseed?

Holy shit, I should try and make it out to a show!

Though if you think I'm weird here on MA... I'm probably the weirdest motherfucker you'll ever meet. Ha!

And if it's warm out and close to my area, don't be surprised if I attend a show with a praying mantis.
_________________
And they'll tell you black is really white - The moon is just the sun at night - And when you walk in golden halls - You get to keep the gold that falls - It's Heaven and Hell

7|10|42-RIP-5|16|10

Top
 Profile  
Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 881
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:21 am 
 

Civil wrote:

In no moment I have been mysoginist. I do NOT accept to be called this by you, or anyone else, because I'm not one.


What are you gonna do about it? If you don't want to be called a misogynist, stop acting like one.

Civil wrote:
Contrary to you, I haven't called anyone stupid or douche or any names, just exposed facts and how things have worked historically regarding cultural production and gender.


You haven't "exposed" anything. Even the dumbest fucks have noticed there are less female metal musicians as well as the other useless trivia you have regurgitated. Everybody knew that. Were you expecting a prize or something?

Except you've peppered a few facts with a heavy dose, subjective judgments. And then interpreted those facts and your own misogynist fantasies into some sort of bullshit theory which you are now calling "facts".

Civil wrote:

The facts stand


Yes they do. How you interpret the few facts to conform with your views on women isn't terribly impressive, though.

Love the persecution complex, BTW! Keep on shitting on half the planet's population and feeling offended when you get a reaction. It's amusing!

And keep us updated on what true metal bands should wear! I couldn't find any chick obsessed enough about fashion to give a shit about that. But you've been an adequate replacement!
_________________
mjollnir wrote:
Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

Top
 Profile  
Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 5801
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:23 am 
 

Goatfangs wrote:
You play in Sorrowseed?

Holy shit, I should try and make it out to a show!

Though if you think I'm weird here on MA... I'm probably the weirdest motherfucker you'll ever meet. Ha!

And if it's warm out and close to my area, don't be surprised if I attend a show with a praying mantis.


Well firstly it's nice to find someone who's heard of the band.

Secondly, regarding me and the band, I kinda am a member and I'm kinda not. I played for them all of last year and I did all the drums and wrote a song on their second album that's coming out this year, but I'm at the point in my life where I've gotta get stuff straightened out regarding schooling and my own band that I'm writing for, but I'm still helping them out in terms of promotions and running the ReverbNation page and occasionally playing live.

You ever been to an SS show before? Sounds like you're from up around here.
_________________
YouTube
Facebook
Sorrowseed Melodic Extreme Metal
Blacksoul Seraphim Doomgaze
Thy Ancient Crypt Blackened Death Metal

Top
 Profile  
Terri23
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 2089
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:36 am 
 

From what I have observed in my local metal scene, there are definitely women who are into the metal scene purely for attention. These women usually have massive self esteem issues, and often carry other mental instabilities. I don't know about other scenes to comment, but I doubt that this type of woman is unique to the metal scene of today. I will say that they seem more prevalent in metal than other scenes.

Having said that, there are women who are involved in the metal scene who genuinely enjoy metal. Sadly, atleast in my scene, they are vastly outnumbered by the first type of woman I described.

However, there are many guys who also involve themselves in the metal scene that are just as mentally unstable as the women I described. Again, these guys probably aren't unique to the metal scene, but again, their prevalence in metal scenes seems to outweight their numbers elsewhere.
_________________
metaldiscussor666 wrote:
American isn't a nationality

Riffs wrote:
It's been scientifically proven that appreciating Black Sabbath helps increase life expectancy, improves happiness, bumps your salary by 11 thousand dollars annually, helps fight cavities and increases penis size.

Top
 Profile  
Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9541
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:38 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
I live in Australia.

Yes, we know. ;)
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

Top
 Profile  
Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 881
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:07 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
From what I have observed in my local metal scene, there are definitely women who are into the metal scene purely for attention. These women usually have massive self esteem issues, and often carry other mental instabilities. I don't know about other scenes to comment, but I doubt that this type of woman is unique to the metal scene of today. I will say that they seem more prevalent in metal than other scenes.

Having said that, there are women who are involved in the metal scene who genuinely enjoy metal. Sadly, atleast in my scene, they are vastly outnumbered by the first type of woman I described.

However, there are many guys who also involve themselves in the metal scene that are just as mentally unstable as the women I described. Again, these guys probably aren't unique to the metal scene, but again, their prevalence in metal scenes seems to outweight their numbers elsewhere.


There are goofs everywhere, of every gender, in every scene. I might as well throw my own anecdotal experience out there:

I don't really notice who is "genuinely into the scene" and who is not, whether they are males or females. Whenever I go out, I enjoy the music. I can say though, that the only people who have ever made my experience at a concert or venue less enjoyable (by vomiting near me, smelling fucking bad, pushing people around or trying to steal from me) were all males. I don't know if that says something or not. Never really thought about it.

From my own circle of friends and acquaintances, I know one drama-seeking, weird female into metal. I know a crapload of drama-seeking, weird males. I haven't really compiled the statistics to find out what that means. Haven't passed a test to anyone to know who is "truly into metal" or not. It's good enough for me if people seem to have a good time listening to metal.

As far as musicians, I tend to play in lineups predominantly male. Every female I ever played with had a great attitude. Some of my best bandmates ever. The only difference I noticed is they had tits and used a different restroom in public places. I know from talking to some female musicians that they have it bad sometimes. I know some bands are reluctant to welcome female musicians. I've been in one such band in the past. My current band has 5 members, we had two replace two guys this summer. One of the replacement is a female and she kicks ass. She beat all the other (male) candidates who auditioned, some of which had a lot more experience. We couldn't be happier with our choice. It hasn't changed the group dynamic at all, except the two new members have brought better attitude. We're picking heavier covers since their arrival. Can't say she's commented on my shoes or what I wear.

In decades playing in various amateur projects, I've played with a lot of musicians, responded to a lot of ads and had a lot of people respond to mine. But not a single weirdo or asshole was a female.

I don't think my anecdotal experience means anything but I thought I might as well throw it out there.
_________________
mjollnir wrote:
Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

Top
 Profile  
doomster999
Keeper of the Dreary Realm

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:58 am
Posts: 657
Location: India
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:19 am 
 

To be honest, there's a portion of both genders who are seeking attention by wearing medieval clothes and all that without focusing on making good music. Apart from that, I think Civil is a misogynistic, troubled individual who needs some help. I like female metallers, I admire Rose Kemp, Liz Buckingham and Laura Pleasants who are all posers according to you, I'm a poser as well for liking them and I'm proud of being one.
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Infact I use to have a relly hot friend from there but unfurtunetly the last party we have I was really wasted and grab her ass and it cause a huge problem. Her dad (that is a marine) wants to ripp my nuts... thinks are not the same...

Last.fm


Last edited by doomster999 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
NikeOfSamothrace
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:34 pm
Posts: 561
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:24 am 
 

OMG Civil, I need to thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you SO MUCH for bringing this to our attention...Here I thought my reasons for liking Octavia Sperati and Jex Thoth was for their music but here I see the light and errors of my thinking. I have come to accept my pitiful realization that I am a retro doom hipster slut.

I'm not going to attack you or anything but I do need to ask...are you for real with this post?

Top
 Profile  
Civil
I'm not sexist, I have binders full of women friends!

Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:58 pm
Posts: 112
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:35 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Civil wrote:
Pffff, you sink to the level of calling me a racist. THIS is the oldest trick in the book. Are you gonna compare me to Hitler next? Use an Ad Hitlerum argument?
[dishonest whining edited]
Next thing you will be calling me a child molester. Like I said, it's typical. Show information that contradicts what one wants to be true and prepare to be subjected to anger, fire and brimstone, and have people going on a ridiculous witch-hunt against you. Simply pathethic of you.

Except... He didn't call you a racist. He compared your arguments of "I'm not sexist, I respect Jo Bench" to the "I'm not racist, I have black friends" rhetoric, because it's exactly the same kind of rhetoric.


No, it is not, simply because I KNOW and appreciate Jo Bench's music and I own all of Bolt Thrower's albums. I am speaking of the quality of the music she produces, because I know that quality and I enjoy and understand her TALENT. When people say "I am not a racist, I have black friends" - as I understand he is implying - he is saying that these people do not really have black friends and are indeed preaching hate towards black people while pretending to have them in their social circles in order to NOT sound racist.

This is not comparable to how I am stating my case at all since I clearly know of Jo Bench's talent and pivotal role in an important band.

I pointed out that there is a small minority of heavy metal musicians which are female and whose work I very much like and whose records I buy and so on. But I AM AWARE that they are a MINORITY and that there are reasons, historically, in every society for women to produce less music than men, and for women to have a different sensibility and abilities to men, and this is why the forerunners of music usually are men.

What you and Riffs are doing is just denying all the information and just calling me names and saying "racist, bigot, sexist" which is not even an argument, not even an idea on the subject discussed, it is just calling me names.

He is not even looking to the research I have posted and my own experience, which shows that female metal fans are in way smaller numbers in metal environments such as bars and gigs, are much more likely to be at gigs with boyfriends/because of boyfriends, not really care about the music, not KNOW much about the music, speak of it in predominently emotional terms and more likely to be obsessed with the looks and the reputation they get through the scene. On the other hand it is very, very hard to find a man in a metal bar or gig who isn't absolutely interested in the music. These are facts. Not "me thinking of what other people have in their heads".

They are also very much the "sexy vamps" of the scene, fullfilling this role much more than men. While men are historically obssessed with music technique and enter hours long discussions about guitar pick ups, the development of genres, the mixing of genres and so on, and that's why ALL rock bands which pushed the genre forward are composed of males, with females, unfortunately, composing only bands on the fringe of rock music and not adding a massive ammount of change, with very few, punctual, honourable, exceptions.

Of course there are exceptions. Louise Brown of Iron Fist Mag is a women, and she is the editor. She also used to edit Terrorizer magazine. But those remain exceptions. The vast majority of editors, bloggers, journalists, musicians etc and fans of rock and metal are men. It is simply a fact that rock and metal attract males more than females. It has done so for decades.

If you have another explanation please bring it forth. The whole "women are opressed" thing just doesn't sustain itself as true, and to be honest it's the "old trick" as riffs would say of "we are victims of the system". Rock music has been around for 60 years and there are plenty of opportunities for us to see the female Jimi Hendrixes, Pages, Van Halens and Gene Hoglans of the world. The female technical and musical pioneers which would have brought undeniable, influential contributions to the genre. It just hasn't happened very frequently. There IS a pattern here. And to not acknowledge it is actually a disrespect to women, because it pretends they are something else.

This is not disrespecting women. It is understanding the different sensibilities and abilities which predominate in each gender. If it conflicts with your core beliefs think twice before calling someone a hate-spreading racist or women hater. This is a disrespecful CHEAP shot which DISTORTS what other people are saying so everyone can hate them (me) and make me look like a fascist of sorts. It is the strategy made by people who don't have how to support their positions.

There is over 100.000 years of human cultural history which we can look at, and in all music genres, in all cultures, all over the world, the driving force in musical progression - with HONOURABLE exceptions - was made by men. Be it in Western erudite, classical or popular music, (for the 20 century: blues, jazz, rock, soul, all these were started, created by men), be it in eastern music, Middle Eastern music, Chinese music, Japanese music, Indian music and so on.

This is thousands of years of musical production. Are there important women in this history? Of course there are. Many, many. But the vast majority of creators and game changers are men.

We are talking about thousands of years, in different places. This is a clear pattern.

Like I have been saying, twisting facts, pretending that the truth is not the truth and distorting what I am saying doesn't change reality. If you want to discuss this seriously PLEASE address the FACTS and try to explain in reasonable terms why do you think that things are the way they are, instead of calling people names because they notice things differently from your own unquestionable worldview.

Top
 Profile  
Civil
I'm not sexist, I have binders full of women friends!

Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:58 pm
Posts: 112
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:47 am 
 

doomster999 wrote:
To be honest, there's a portion of both genders who are seeking attention by wearing medieval clothes and all that without focusing on making good music. Apart from that, I think Civil is a misogynistic, troubled individual who needs some help. I like female metallers, I admire Rose Kemp, Liz Buckingham and Laura Pleasants who are all posers according to you, I'm a poser as well for liking them and I'm proud of being one.


Again, distortion of everything I said so I can look "evil" and prejudiced. I have clearly complimented Liz and Laura as accomplished players whose work I'm a big fan of. I never, ever said they were posers and on the complete contrary, said that they stand as true exceptions, being superb players in their given genres.

One more distortion, not to mention a completely lie about what I wrote, pointed out.

If there is someone who "thinks that he knows what goes through other people's heads" is this person. Sad.

Actually, he would have know what I think of these musicians if he read what I wrote when I clearly complimented, praised them and made clear I admire their work, own and buy their music.

Very sad.


Last edited by Civil on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
King_Hands
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:46 am
Posts: 629
Location: Indiana
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:53 am 
 

Civil wrote:
No, it is not, simply because I KNOW and appreciate Jo Bench's music and I own all of Bolt Thrower's albums. I am speaking of the quality of the music she produces, because I know that quality and I enjoy and understand her TALENT. When people say "I am not a racist, I have black friends" - as I understand he is implying - he is saying that these people do not really have black friends and are indeed preaching hate towards black people while pretending to have them in their social circles in order to NOT sound racist.

This is not comparable to how I am stating my case at all since I clearly know of Jo Bench's talent and pivotal role in an important band.

I pointed out that there is a small minority of heavy metal musicians which are female and whose work I very much like and whose records I buy and so on. But I AM AWARE that they are a MINORITY and that there are reasons, historically, in every society for women to produce less music than men, and for women to have a different sensibility and abilities to men, and this is why the forerunners of music usually are men.

What you and Riffs are doing is just denying all the information and just calling me names and saying "racist, bigot, sexist" which is not even an argument, not even an idea on the subject discussed, it is just calling me names.

He is not even looking to the research I have posted and my own experience, which shows that female metal fans are in way smaller numbers in metal environments such as bars and gigs, are much more likely to be at gigs with boyfriends/because of boyfriends, not really care about the music, not KNOW much about the music, speak of it in predominently emotional terms and more likely to be obsessed with the looks and the reputation they get through the scene. On the other hand it is very, very hard to find a man in a metal bar or gig who isn't absolutely interested in the music. These are facts. Not "me thinking of what other people have in their heads".

They are also very much the "sexy vamps" of the scene, fullfilling this role much more than men. While men are historically obssessed with music technique and enter hours long discussions about guitar pick ups, the development of genres, the mixing of genres and so on, and that's why ALL rock bands which pushed the genre forward are composed of males, with females, unfortunately, composing only bands on the fringe of rock music and not adding a massive ammount of change, with very few, punctual, honourable, exceptions.

Of course there are exceptions. Louise Brown of Iron Fist Mag is a women, and she is the editor. She also used to edit Terrorizer magazine. But those remain exceptions. The vast majority of editors, bloggers, journalists, musicians etc and fans of rock and metal are men. It is simply a fact that rock and metal attract males more than females. It has done so for decades.

If you have another explanation please bring it forth. The whole "women are opressed" thing just doesn't sustain itself as true, and to be honest it's the "old trick" as riffs would say of "we are victims of the system". Rock music has been around for 60 years and there are plenty of opportunities for us to see the female Jimi Hendrixes, Pages, Van Halens and Gene Hoglans of the world. The female technical and musical pioneers which would have brought undeniable, influential contributions to the genre. It just hasn't happened very frequently. There IS a pattern here. And to not acknowledge it is actually a disrespect to women, because it pretends they are something else.

This is not disrespecting women. It is understanding the different sensibilities and abilities which predominate in each gender. If it conflicts with your core beliefs think twice before calling someone a hate-spreading racist or women hater. This is a disrespecful CHEAP shot which DISTORTS what other people are saying so everyone can hate them (me) and make me look like a fascist of sorts. It is the strategy made by people who don't have how to support their positions.

There is over 100.000 years of human cultural history which we can look at, and in all music genres, in all cultures, all over the world, the driving force in musical progression - with HONOURABLE exceptions - was made by men. Be it in Western erudite, classical or popular music, (for the 20 century: blues, jazz, rock, soul, all these were started, created by men), be it in eastern music, Middle Eastern music, Chinese music, Japanese music, Indian music and so on.

This is thousands of years of musical production. Are there important women in this history? Of course there are. Many, many. But the vast majority of creators and game changers are men.

We are talking about thousands of years, in different places. This is a clear pattern.

Like I have been saying, twisting facts, pretending that the truth is not the truth and distorting what I am saying doesn't change reality. If you want to discuss this seriously PLEASE address the FACTS and try to explain in reasonable terms why do you think that things are the way they are, instead of calling people names because they notice things differently from your own unquestionable worldview.

TL;DR, Adolf.

Top
 Profile  
Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 881
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:53 am 
 

Civil wrote:
He is not even looking to the research I have posted and my own experience, which shows that female metal fans are in way smaller numbers in metal environments such as bars and gigs, are much more likely to be at gigs with boyfriends/because of boyfriends, not really care about the music, not KNOW much about the music, speak of it in predominently emotional terms and more likely to be obsessed with the looks and the reputation they get through the scene. On the other hand it is very, very hard to find a man in a metal bar or gig who isn't absolutely interested in the music. These are facts.


You're doing it again. Mixing your half-assed "research" and misogynist views with real facts, and calling all of it "facts".

Your own experience is anecdotal. It's not "facts". Furthermore, it is heavily colored by your bias, which you have amply demonstrated on these threads to the point where you are now the current laughingstock of the forum. Everyone is using you as a punchline, in case you didn't notice because you were too busy admiring Candlemass' favored brands of shoes.
_________________
mjollnir wrote:
Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

Top
 Profile  
MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 784
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:03 am 
 

somberlain93 wrote:
To take the unpopular side of the discussion.......... It's sadly been my experience that most girls care way less about music than guys, specially true in metal. 95% of the girls I've known, dated or been friends with or even talked to online are just way less dedicated and more likely to give bad answers when you try to talk to them about music.

For example.........

Quote:
Me: You like Dissection?

Girl: Oh yeah, I love them! They're one of the best!

Me: That's awesome. Which album do you prefer?

Girl: I don't really pay attention to names and albums.

Me: So you don't know which songs your favorites are?

Girl: No, I don't know the names of any songs or albums, I just know I like it when I hear it.


I'm always left thinking "what the fuck"? You're wearing the band's t-shirt, maybe even a tattoo of their logo or something in extreme cases, but you can't tell me the name of one song? Seriously?

Girls in general just listen to (or say they listen to) whatever their bf or guy friends tell them is good/cool and don't even try to get deeper into it than that. There's a reason so many girls are attracted to bands like Watain, with more hype than substance.

I don't say that all girls are posers and no girls know anything about metal. That's wrong and there are male posers too, but the ratio is in favour of uneducated, non-serious girls more than ones that really know their shit........ in my experience in the last decade and a half.

To the girls that are dedicated metallers and are the exception to this, hail to you!

I will relate to this with a specific story.
One of my sister's friends comes over with a Van Halen shirt, so NATURALLY I have to ask what her favorite album was. Apparently she didn't know Van Halen was a band; she just liked the shirt :ugh:
I'm sure there are men that wear the stuff for the fasion too (remember that story on Chris Brown and Rihanna a while back on Blabbermouth?), but women seem to like the attention more for being in our "elite circle" if you will.
Of course there are exceptions to the rule. An ex-girlfriend of mine actually introduced me to Belphegor for example, and lent me Goat Zombie. Of course we broke up eventually, but she forgot that I still had the album. Probably the best thing I got out of that relationship, but that's besides the point.
_________________
Murtal wrote:
In flames became MeloDICK Death Metal

TheDefiniteArticle wrote:
Also hopefully they take it as a sign they're not meant to make more albums.

Top
 Profile  
Terri23
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 2089
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:20 am 
 

Civil wrote:
This is thousands of years of musical production. Are there important women in this history? Of course there are.

Huh?

Civil wrote:
I believe that in the end there is a strong difference between men and women when it comes to creating music. All of these subcultures, jazz, blues, heavy metal, rock, soul, whichever, are male-dominated, and all the important, groundbreaking musicians of it are male.

and

Civil wrote:
The number of females in bands is miniscule, very, very small. The number of females in bands that have created something that has changed the genre is almost, if not, next to nil.

Just shut up and fuck off hypocrite.
_________________
metaldiscussor666 wrote:
American isn't a nationality

Riffs wrote:
It's been scientifically proven that appreciating Black Sabbath helps increase life expectancy, improves happiness, bumps your salary by 11 thousand dollars annually, helps fight cavities and increases penis size.

Top
 Profile  
kapala
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:56 pm
Posts: 156
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:56 am 
 

I'm not really sure why "who is genuinely into the scene" matters, whether male or female. Is this person at a (local) gig? They probably paid to get in. Is this person directly bothering you, more than, "Oh my god. I really doubt he/she is into Archgoat. Look at his/her hair!"? Probably not. So why does it matter? I have more respect for a so-called "poseur" who is apparently just into it for the "image" who actually goes to gigs, buys merchandise and supports the bands, than some internet tough-guy who's concerned with the "trve metal brotherhood! Get out of the hall!" mentality, who does little to none of that, yet feels the need to moan incessantly on the internets about people they've apparently "spoken to" and determined aren't actually "into" metal.
Who is then, more "genuinely" into the scene?

Onwards to the actual subject at hand, an unfortunate consequence of women constantly having to prove we somehow "deserve" to be there, is the attitudes other women often have towards each other. For example, a Swedish book on metal here "Blod Eld Död" included a chapter on "Metal and Sexism", and one of the interviewees, a relatively well-known fixture in the Stockholm scene, and female, said something akin to being suspicious of all women who are supposedly "just" getting into metal (i.e. probably haven't been seen around gigs before), disliking any black metal bands with female members, etc. I wouldn't say this attitude is common, but I've overheard conversations between women debating whether or not another woman at a gig can really be into the music because she's wearing a short skirt and high heels. Certainly true metalheads only wear jeans and leather jackets? It's all a bit silly. It's perhaps shocking (!!) but one can be into fashion and metal at the same time. Or metal and Tchaikovsky (and whatever else).
_________________
MariusBR wrote:
Go ask a Swede by the way. [...] They would probably tell you that the only way to be BM is to wear a mace in your pants.

Top
 Profile  
MacMoney
Man of the Cloth

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 10:17 pm
Posts: 1969
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:22 am 
 

Civil wrote:
No, it is not, simply because I KNOW and appreciate Jo Bench's music and I own all of Bolt Thrower's albums. I am speaking of the quality of the music she produces, because I know that quality and I enjoy and understand her TALENT. When people say "I am not a racist, I have black friends" - as I understand he is implying - he is saying that these people do not really have black friends and are indeed preaching hate towards black people while pretending to have them in their social circles in order to NOT sound racist.


I have to point out a couple of mistakes here: This assumption is wrong. The point that people have been trying to make to you is the fact that pointing out how one can appreciate these individuals/be friends with these people does not preclude one from being sexist/racist, because one's general disposition towards these people as a group is clearly biased. The fact that one points out these individual cases - certain artists or friends with different skin color than one's own - as examples of not being sexist/racist only serves to highlight the point.

Regarding your research and data, you've yet to provide any actual source, except your own anecdotal evidence as well as quotes from an unnamed book, which also only provides anecdotal evidence instead of any proper research. Unless you mean what you said about music being mostly produced by men throughout history. This, quite frankly, is because of the general gender role that has been forced upon women in society, rather than any disposition against music. It is certainly true for any music produced before the 20th century and has certainly had a strong effect on most of the music genres that burgeoned on the 20th century.

Top
 Profile  
doomster999
Keeper of the Dreary Realm

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:58 am
Posts: 657
Location: India
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:23 am 
 

Civil wrote:
doomster999 wrote:
To be honest, there's a portion of both genders who are seeking attention by wearing medieval clothes and all that without focusing on making good music. Apart from that, I think Civil is a misogynistic, troubled individual who needs some help. I like female metallers, I admire Rose Kemp, Liz Buckingham and Laura Pleasants who are all posers according to you, I'm a poser as well for liking them and I'm proud of being one.


Again, distortion of everything I said so I can look "evil" and prejudiced. I have clearly complimented Liz and Laura as accomplished players whose work I'm a big fan of. I never, ever said they were posers and on the complete contrary, said that they stand as true exceptions, being superb players in their given genres.

Actually, he would have know what I think of these musicians if he read what I wrote when I clearly complimented, praised them and made clear I admire their work, own and buy their music.

Very sad.


Yea, you have praised them alright but you've also criticized Buckingham for wearing occult necklaces and clothes earlier in this thread. You know that Messiah Marcolin also wore occult, mystical robes in his later years. Thrash bands wear bullet belts, Black Metal bands wear corpse paints, all of these are part of the tradition of the musical style they play. Do you want them to dress like Lady Gaga and Niki Minaj, Civil??? Or do you want them naked?
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Infact I use to have a relly hot friend from there but unfurtunetly the last party we have I was really wasted and grab her ass and it cause a huge problem. Her dad (that is a marine) wants to ripp my nuts... thinks are not the same...

Last.fm


Last edited by doomster999 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
Cursarion
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:56 am
Posts: 646
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:27 am 
 

Civil wrote:
He is not even looking to the research I have posted

RonimuZ wrote:
Civil wrote:
I won't keep repeating myself much because I don't feel like it, but this is from a book about metal and identity:

What book? Whose research? Your own work? Citing an unnamed source is baaaad. :P


Civil wrote:
and my own experience, which shows that female metal fans are in way smaller numbers in metal environments such as bars and gigs, are much more likely to be at gigs with boyfriends/because of boyfriends, not really care about the music, not KNOW much about the music, speak of it in predominently emotional terms and more likely to be obsessed with the looks and the reputation they get through the scene. On the other hand it is very, very hard to find a man in a metal bar or gig who isn't absolutely interested in the music. These are facts. Not "me thinking of what other people have in their heads".

- "And my own experience..."
- List of experiences
- "These are facts."
_________________
Known as RonimuZ from Nov 25th 2005 to Oct 28th 2013

Empä mie semmone ou niiku sie luulet

Top
 Profile  
The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:28 am 
 

Wait, am I missing something here? Is there somebody forcing you to take to/hang out with/associate with the posers? Why do you give a fuck about them?

If they're just in it for attention, then you're doing them a service by blathering endlessly about them.
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Fortunately the seminar started and when it finished, I runed away like if Usain Bolt were about to rape me.

Top
 Profile  
doomster999
Keeper of the Dreary Realm

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:58 am
Posts: 657
Location: India
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:20 am 
 

Hey Civil, after seeing this somehow I'm getting what you're trying to say. :-P
_________________
gomorro wrote:
Infact I use to have a relly hot friend from there but unfurtunetly the last party we have I was really wasted and grab her ass and it cause a huge problem. Her dad (that is a marine) wants to ripp my nuts... thinks are not the same...

Last.fm

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: androdion, Diamhea, FlynnEatsBreakfast, Heavy_T_Skubbs, henkkjelle, MorbidEngel, Spiner202 and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group