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somberlain93
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:20 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:48 pm 
 

Along the same lines as the other thread I just made..........

Does the year of release make a difference with how you enjoy or respect an album? First thing I want to know when someone is showing me a new band is when they formed and when the album was released. Somehow that makes a difference to how I view it. You know, like what standards I hold it up to and whatnot. Some things I would like better if they had been older, but knowing it's some modern rehash makes it less valuable for some reason. And if something is older, usually it's more impressive, knowing there were fewer bands playing that certain style, in some cases.
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FasterDisaster
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Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:49 pm 
 

No, but albums during the cusp of a genre explosion usually demand more attention.
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BasqueStorm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm
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Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:19 pm 
 

somberlain93 wrote:
Along the same lines as the other thread I just made..........
Does the year of release make a difference with how you enjoy or respect an album? First thing I want to know when someone is showing me a new band is when they formed and when the album was released. Somehow that makes a difference to how I view it. You know, like what standards I hold it up to and whatnot. Some things I would like better if they had been older, but knowing it's some modern rehash makes it less valuable for some reason. And if something is older, usually it's more impressive, knowing there were fewer bands playing that certain style, in some cases.

It's important for me cause I can "locate" the album comparing it with others made at the same time. Nothing more.

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Wrath_Of_War
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:04 pm
Posts: 1330
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:41 pm 
 

BasqueStorm wrote:
It's important for me cause I can "locate" the album comparing it with others made at the same time. Nothing more.
I couldn't have said it better. :nods:
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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:01 pm 
 

Dates are important and even a crucial piece of info to appreciate the historical value, and the potential authenticity or lack thereof. Simply put, it gives context as to what it might have been exposed to or not and/or what it might have influenced or at least predated.

In the big picture (metal in general or any given subgenre), it's far less relevant for albums that clearly are not in a position to have broken any grounds. The precise date can make a lot of difference for a hard/heavy album from the late 60s or early 70s, or a speed/thrash album from the early 80s, or a death metal album from the mid or late 80s. For an album operating well within the boundaries of any already well-established genre released say, post-2000, even a ballpark of the year of release doesn't matter quite as much. Whether one emulated a 3-decade-old style in 2005 or 2012 changes nothing, but whether one came up with stuff previously unheard of or jumped the bandwagon of an already strong trend changes a lot.

For any given band, knowing the date of an album is more important in relation to which albums came up before or after it than it is in and of itself. If a band vastly rehashed its debut for its sophomore album, knowing which is which ensures you don't take the remake for an original. That part of the importance of knowing the date holds true for pretty much any band, whether their entire existence is safe below the radar of major genre evolutions or they are highly influential.
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somberlain93
I'm not sexist, I have binders full of women friends!

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:20 am
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:09 am 
 

Fucking awesome reply and really articulates better what I had in mind. Glad I'm not alone in this.
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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:06 am 
 

It means nothing to me beyond historical interest. I've always maintained that knockoffs can be better than the originals, and often are to me since I tend to like the bands that take the established routes and then muck with the edges to make it a bit more fun, whereas total genre setters are often a bit dry to me. Whether something that does exactly same thing as an earlier band appeals to me is not decided by a date, if I enjoy something more, even if it's a bold faced worship, I still enjoy it more, and historical worth isn't going to sway which one is better to me, although it may make me say the one that came first is a more important band, just not a better one.
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shouvince
Veteran

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:11 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:18 am 
 

Again, generalizing much?

Like ghenghis said, I value the historical aspect of the band. To be more precise, any release before 2000 would catch my fancy because I'd want to piece together how the music grew & got distributed pre-internet era. Another reason why the year would interest me is to know which 'wave' or 'scene' the band fell into.

somberlain93 wrote:
Does the year of release make a difference with how you enjoy or respect an album? First thing I want to know when someone is showing me a new band is when they formed and when the album was released. Somehow that makes a difference to how I view it. You know, like what standards I hold it up to and whatnot. Some things I would like better if they had been older, but knowing it's some modern rehash makes it less valuable for some reason. And if something is older, usually it's more impressive, knowing there were fewer bands playing that certain style, in some cases.


With regards to enjoying the music? I would let the music speak for itself.

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4945
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:37 am 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
It means nothing to me beyond historical interest. I've always maintained that knockoffs can be better than the originals, and often are to me since I tend to like the bands that take the established routes and then muck with the edges to make it a bit more fun, whereas total genre setters are often a bit dry to me. Whether something that does exactly same thing as an earlier band appeals to me is not decided by a date, if I enjoy something more, even if it's a bold faced worship, I still enjoy it more, and historical worth isn't going to sway which one is better to me, although it may make me say the one that came first is a more important band, just not a better one.

I couldn't say it better than this. I find a lot of bands much better than the innovators.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:42 am 
 

As stated multiple times before, I value it as a piece of work first and then I'll be interested in the release as in historical significance. Just cause something is the first in a genre to do something doesn't mean I'm going to like it. As like I've argued how much I hate Heartwork, but not all melodic death metal. I would care more if I was immediately pick up every album upon it's creation going back to the 70's at least. But I'm not and I can't so why have it be some huge part of why you enjoy something? To me when you put so much emphasis on whether it was an older release or where a band might be from tells me you aren't really listening to this for the actual enjoyment of the music and more so to appear more elitist.
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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
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Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:45 am 
 

somberlain93 wrote:
Fucking awesome reply and really articulates better what I had in mind. Glad I'm not alone in this.

Thanks. Well, I'm rather passionate about metal history and the trails of influence, so it's understood I care about dates. In a similar fashion, who composed what is of the utmost importance to me, and typically the first thing I want to know about an album I get into, even more so for bands with revolving-door line-ups. However, I know it's not everybody's cup of tea and a lot of fans generally don't look up such info and couldn't care less as long as they like what they hear. To each their own.

shouvince wrote:
Again, generalizing much?
lord_ghengis wrote:
It means nothing to me beyond historical interest.
ShaolinLambKiller wrote:
To me when you put so much emphasis on whether it was an older release or where a band might be from tells me you aren't really listening to this for the actual enjoyment of the music and more so to appear more elitist.

If you guys are (at least in part) responding to my post, I'm a bit confused. When I say it's important, I don't mean it's important in determining whether I like it or whether it's good in and of itself, that'd be silly. I'm only referring to, like I said, the value the content may or may not have in terms of metal history, a specific genre/scene/movement's history, or just the particular band's history. I love countless songs and albums which "invented" strictly nothing. The only line I draw, so to speak, is that once I find out something is a blatant ripoff of something else, I lose respect for it; and even that is not so much a policy as it is the fact that blatant ripoffs offend me at a personal level.

To clarify, there's a huge difference between a ripoff, as in someone copied and pasted someone else's creation and passed it as their own, and bands being influenced by others, or even totally worshiping a specific style. If a band makes music that sounds and feels just like another band's, that's perfectly fine by me, and indeed they may even come up with better songs than the original band. Likewise, cover versions can be genuinely better than the original song (although in a majority of cases, especially in metal, they are not). Outright plagiarism is another story: when I hear another song's riff (or other recognizable parts) in a "new" song, it's as if the new song's "composer" was telling me "yeah, I'm lazy and shameless, stealing isn't a problem for me, and anyway I think you, the listener, will be none the wiser; suck my dick and give me your money, now." None of that is gonna fly as far as I'm concerned, is all. If that makes me an elitist, cool story bros.
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UnrealReality
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:20 am
Posts: 25
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:28 am 
 

I "respect" an album more, if it shows new, original and great-working contributitions to an existing genre, or music in general.

As to how much I enjoy an album, the year does not have an influence at all.

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Wyrmbane
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:30 am
Posts: 125
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:02 pm 
 

The year of release/recording is irrelevant (or should be), EXCEPT if the release is in a specific time-frame i.e. the emergence of a new genre or a new scene. In those cases the year of release/recording is important as it allows us to differentiate between the originals and the "rip-offs".
IMO, the thank-you lists / interviews are more important, as you can trace influences more easily than through chronology or just by analyzing the music.

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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:43 pm 
 

Legend, I wasn't responding to your post. I didn't even read it. I have no idea why you would think i was. I'm talking to the thread starter who also can't enjoy an album if he thinks it came from an area he deems unworthy to produce anything of merit.
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Riffs
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:13 pm 
 

99% of the time, I find the copycats and worshipers boring.

And over the years, my appreciation for the innovators only grows, whereas the copies rightfully become irrelevant unless they added something to the music, which most of the time they don't.

I don't really pay attention to the date of release unless I have a curiosity for something I appreciate and want to learn the historical context afterwards. But I don't let the date determine if I appreciate something or not. I just let the music do the talking. Those things can be heard and put into context instinctively.

Having said all that, you can't ask everyone to innovate. A scene needs leaders but a natural effect of this is to have followers. And you'll get a lot more of the latter than the former.
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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:43 pm 
 

Nah legend, it was a response to the OP, who seems like a genuinely vapid person from his two threads. I agree that the innovative bands are more important, they just have no guarantees of being better.
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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 1605
Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:33 pm 
 

ShaolinLambKiller wrote:
Legend, I wasn't responding to your post. I didn't even read it.

Not sure if I should feel relieved or offended. :D
I'm with you on the geography question, by the way: where a band comes from is trivia at the most.

lord_ghengis wrote:
Nah legend, it was a response to the OP, who seems like a genuinely vapid person from his two threads. I agree that the innovative bands are more important, they just have no guarantees of being better.

Thanks, I feel better now. Must have just been the fact that there was a string of posts showing some irritation right after my post, combined with my mild paranoia. :tinfoil:

Wyrmbane wrote:
IMO, the thank-you lists / interviews are more important, as you can trace influences more easily than through chronology or just by analyzing the music.

I disagree (about chronology), and strongly disagree (about analyzing the music). What you can get from what the band members say is, at best, their perceived influences. At worst, a mishmash of what they think would sound cool to say, and what bands inspired them. In extreme cases, utter bullshit. Anyone can thank anybody, or pay their respects to whomever, it doesn't mean much musically; most certainly far less than what someone knowledgeable enough in the relevant field and with a trained ear will get from analyzing the music itself (which can often be enhanced and fine-tuned by placing said analysis in the chronological context). There are exceptions, of course. Some release from 2011 might be an obscure early 80's demo's material re-released, and the date alone can be gravely misleading in such cases. But in general, trust the material more than the men behind it would be my advice.

Riffs wrote:
Having said all that, you can't ask everyone to innovate. A scene needs leaders but a natural effect of this is to have followers. And you'll get a lot more of the latter than the former.

That's very true and can be a bit disturbing when you think about it. The exact same very innovating album or band will get a ton more credit in retrospect if a throng of copypcats later eat it up and regurgitate it than if it just stays an oddball, unique thing; and that's entirely out of the band's control.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:02 pm 
 

You shouldn't be either. the first response I give to any thread is usually directed towards the topic/threadstarter. Then afterwards I might go back and read older comments or scan new ones to see if I've been meantioned or quoted and require a response to.
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shouvince
Veteran

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:11 am
Posts: 2765
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:10 pm 
 

Yeah Legend, my post was entirely directed at the OP as well. Stop making everything to be about you, just coz you're a self-proclaimed legend and all :)

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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
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Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:06 pm 
 

:lol: Okay, guys, I guess I had this coming.

Well, nice little thread, but if I sum up correctly, we all agree, so far. A lot of you guys disagreed with the OP's statement, but the OP has since said that he essentially meant to say what's in my post, which you guys are okay with... So, I guess we've come full circle.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:34 pm 
 

I guess, I had to actually go read your post finally since you are saying I agree with it. I guess I do after gleeming over it but it's pretty much the long of what all of us were saying to begin with, so it's not really that we agree with you, we all stated the same thing in various ways. like shouvince said... stop making everything about you.
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:45 pm 
 

@SLK: Exactly. I really wasn't pulling a "me, myself and I" here, just saying we're all roughly of the same opinion on the topic at hand. I have to admit your habit of skipping any post which isn't directly addressed at you (except for the OP) is puzzling me a little; but to each their own.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:54 pm 
 

it's from long use of other messageboard where 90% of the content is garbage. So I really don't bother reading much unless it's a particular thread I do want to read all responses which doesn't happen all that often... but we are getting off subject here..
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somberlain93
I'm not sexist, I have binders full of women friends!

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:20 am
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:12 pm 
 

Yeah, would be better to flesh out a discussion before hurling words like "closeminded" and "elistist" at someone you don't even know. Sorry I did not articulate my original post as well as I'd like. If we're talking in my native language, I would do better for sure. :s
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:14 pm 
 

Your previous thread is all I needed to know from you. I'll leave it at that cause I haven't changed my opinion on you, so it's still the same 'insults'.
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somberlain93
I'm not sexist, I have binders full of women friends!

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:20 am
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:29 pm 
 

Seriously? And how old are you? I asked if anyone else is ever influenced by the place a band originates from, and you decide I must be someone that you're allowed to insult? Talk about closeminded. Fuck off, mate.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:34 pm 
 

Shut up both of you.

What's your mother tongue, somberlain? Your IP says America...
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somberlain93
I'm not sexist, I have binders full of women friends!

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:20 am
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:36 pm 
 

I'm from Riga, Latvia.
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