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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10169
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:38 pm 
 

This is not a topic about letting bands like Ratt and Cinederella into the archives, nor am I seeking to covertly resurrect the discussion further down the page started by a disgruntled fan. I, myself, care nothing for most of these bands; I remember when Motley Crue was not even on the archives and while I'm not bothered that they're here at all, I wouldn't miss them if they weren't, either, despite not being able to deny that their first albums have some doubtlessly metallic songs scattered around.

But this all got me thinking. I started getting into metal in the mid-90s. At that point every older metalhead I spoke to on the subject was absolutely dismissive of glam, particularly that sort masquerading as metal in the mainstream. mands like Crue and even Dokken seemed to be met with stern derision all across the board, and while I'm sure there were exceptions, and one must be very careful of creating a "general concensus" out of not much at all, I talked to guys who had been diehard thrashers in the 80s who said they wouldn't go see Metallica if they were playing with Motley Crue and that Bonn Jovi was one of the biggest posers in music and that he had no right to disrespect a "real band" like Venom. Even Pantera, who were already receiving some scorn from the "true metal" community by 1996 (from what I could tell), were often mostly derided because of their glam past rather than because they stole a bunch of kids away from speed metal and into tough-guy posturing or whatever.

SO now it's 2013, and we have a lot of new, young bands especially, who seem to be borrowing from the presumed-dead, so-called "hair metal" experience of the past, even if some of them do possess a somewhat more metallic sound. It still weirds me out a bit to see young bandmembers singing the praises of Crue, Ratt, etc. It's not that I'm complaining about it, but it's definitely not what I'm used to. I noticed that the USAmerican Slaughter are playing here soon and I'm wondering how much of a crowd they will draw?

So, has there been a notable shift in attitude toward this glam stuff since the 1990s? Is it possible that metalheads find a greater degree of kinship with such music than was initially supposed, possibly because most of the 80s glam music is closer to good-time rock 'n' roll than is grunge, which has the reputation of being dispirited music for downtrodden souls? To anyone who was around and dismissive of the glam hordes in the 1980s, have you found your position on such groups mellowed over time due to the fact that they've somewhat receded from public consciousness?

I don't want to make this "hair metal" seem like a bigger phenomenon than it was; granted I was a really young lad in the 80s but from what I've gathered since then, although some bands could do very well in the arena at the time, very few of them had any real lasting impact or notable features aside from maybe a competent blues guitarist. Still, has the mainstream press's insistence on calling much of this stuff "metal" at the time sort of filtered down into today, where we have bands like White Wizard (not metal enough for this site), Skull Fist (metal enough), etc, actually believing the vestiges of the old hype?

I do actually think the world could always do with more fun rock 'n' roll. But I find that some of the new crop of young heavy metal bands, while being musically very solid, seem shallow compared with much of the stuff they are overtly paying tribute to, and not just because they sound a bit like a relic from the past, but because they seem to focus a lot on their visual aesthetic, and half-assed lyrics about getting laid and some "not trying hard enough" horror themes. Now I do possess some self-awareness in this regard; I know Razor and Exciter and Anvil hardly constitute lyrical depth most of the time, but I can't deny (with a hint of anxiousness) that there seemed something more sincere about their approaches.
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Ancient_Mariner
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:20 pm
Posts: 320
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:22 pm 
 

I got into metal with glam. Then it got old, and this was even before the real glut of derivative crap hit, and I kind of drifted out of metal until I heard Master of Puppets then I got into metal big time...but hated glam with a passion. Now I can listen to some Crue or Ratt and enjoy it a bit if the riffs are good. So my attitude has definitely mellowed, but then again I'm not into being "true metal" like I was as a teenager.

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Delta_Wing
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 870
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:36 pm 
 

I liked some glam bands when I got into metal around '86. They were definitely a gate way back then to the heavier stuff. I realized early on that much of it was fluff crap. There are still a few glam bands I like. I particularily like Dokken, who were already way heavier in 80's than most of their peers in that scene. By the time they released Back for the Attack, they also looked a lot less glam.

Certain bands out of that era will always hold more weight in terms of quality than others. I personally started listening to bands like Dokken, Appetite era Guns 'N Roses, Ratt, Twisted Sister and Quiet Riot again recently, maybe out of nostalgia, or more importantly because they truly rock.

Glam like any other trend had some good artists and a lot of really bad 2nd and 3rd tier acts; Nitro or Dangerous Toys anyone. As the popularity of it grew so did the terrible cash in imitators.

I think now Metal Heads can appreciate the good acts, but still loathe the bad ones and sadly there are a lot more bad glam acts than good. In reality the ones that used the least make up and image and concentrated on the music will stand the test of time.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6374
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:21 pm 
 

Among my acquintances in my age group (early 20s), some of the glam bands, including Mötley Crue in particular, are lumped together with most 80s hard rock bands like AC/DC and Guns N' Roses, and people who listen to those bands are seen as "rockers", and often considered to have a more individual taste (as opposed to pop-listening youth). Some people my age perceive those bands, the glam/hair metal bands included, as some kind of a relic of a better past. It becomes connected with a nostalgy for the 80s by people who never lived in that decade - usually it's nothing less innocent than simply rocking out to 80s rock bands and perhaps having a skewed view of what popular music was like in that decade.

Hair metal bands enjoy certain reverence. There are retro glam bands, and young people dressing up in that hair metal fashion is, while somewhat uncommon, mostly seen favourably (if with some amusement) by people. Older folks like seeing that, since it reminds them of their youth, and younger people are drawn to it because of that 80s mystique and thrill that appeals to their rebellious affinities. I wouldn't put faith in a glam band becoming the next big thing in 2014, but many bands playing different musical styles have capitalised on the glam look very effectively even in this decade, I think, and it works because of its connection to the "rebellious", rocking 80s.
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Opus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 1716
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:28 pm 
 

I do not understand your premiss. Do you not think that people who liked glam back then have liked it throughout the years, and still do? Just like people who liked Black Sabbath in the 70s still like Black Sabbath. Or that kids today can discover glam metal now and fall in love with it, just like kids today can fall in love with 70s Black Sabbath?
Glam metal have been around all along, no matter what some thrashers thought about it in the 90s. And no matter what metal revisionists think about it in the 10s, it will stick around.

Or maybe I just misunderstood you completely, it's been known to happen.
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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1087
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:35 pm 
 

i got into metal just as glam was dying off - i was fairly young so dates aren't 100%, but i know nevermind was out by the time i started listening to music. but no one i was getting music from (a bunch of kids 3-4 years older than me, and by '96 about half my high school) was listening to glam - no one at all. they weren't even listening to iron maiden. it was purely metallica, pantera, sepultura, biohazard, fear factory, prong, etc. groove-thrash and death metal. but it wasn't like people were hatin' on it, either - it just simply wasn't on the radar. one guy i know had a dr feelgood tour shirt, it looked fucking cool, but i never actually heard any crue until the late 90s, when we got the internet at my parents' house and i downloaded a lot of glam along with everything else i could raid from some dude's FTP over a 6-week period.

i first noticed the hate for glam in the late 90s, about the same time i started browsing intenet forums. but i think there may have been a lot more hate in the metalsphere/internet in general back then - nu-metal was in full swing and it was HATED, glam was "fucken faggot shit" and grunge was solely responsible for the death of thrash, etc etc. people were even putting shit on the gothenburg sound, and this before in flames had even released colony!

sometime in the early 00s glam became acceptable again. i think a LOT of the credit should go to motley crue, who reunited with vince neil at some point around '02, released a very well-promoted best-of, and went on a world tour. guns n roses also did something similar around '06 i think, and it was a GNR/sebastian bach package (fucking great gig, too - bach's performance in particular blew my mind). the rest of the credit should go to then-newer bands like avenged sevenfold: i think their sound was much more in line with glam, and came in just as nu-metal (of which the by far biggest criticism was the lack of interesting guitar work) was dying off. in more 'metal' circles you can probably attribute a bit of it to the massive popularity of hammerfall/blind guardian/rhapsody, whose music could be loosely seen as a beefed-up form of AOR/glam.

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themicrulah
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:00 am
Posts: 1167
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:53 pm 
 

I really don't like glam metal. Purple hair and shitty riffs, who cares about that?
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Terri23
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 2089
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:04 pm 
 

I was dismissive of glam when I was younger, but the genre has grown on me over the past 4 or 5 years. I find it as a good fun alternative to my usual listening habits such as prog rock and metal. I also find that ballads are usually done far better by glam bands than by just about anyone else. Also, living in Australia, a lot of what Turner says about a glam revival is true. Adelaide in particular has a growing glam scene that while not mainstream by any stretch, certainly has a huge underground fanbase, and has had one for about a decade now.
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10169
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:27 pm 
 

Opus wrote:
I do not understand your premiss. Do you not think that people who liked glam back then have liked it throughout the years, and still do? Just like people who liked Black Sabbath in the 70s still like Black Sabbath. Or that kids today can discover glam metal now and fall in love with it, just like kids today can fall in love with 70s Black Sabbath?
Glam metal have been around all along, no matter what some thrashers thought about it in the 90s. And no matter what metal revisionists think about it in the 10s, it will stick around.

Or maybe I just misunderstood you completely, it's been known to happen.


Hm, it's more of a question than a premiss, I suppose, even though it may not have seemed that way. I'm wondering if the dismissive attitude toward glam among "real metalheads" was as severe in the 80s/early 90s as I initially had thought, and, related to that, if the attitude toward the style among a perceived general population of metalheads has softened as grunge, nu-metal and metalcore have come and gone over the years. it seems to me that there is more acceptance of glam now (within a metal context) than there was during the time of its actual prevalence as a popular music style, and I am wondering if there is any truth to that. Also wondering how these modern groups who somewhat copy the aesthetic and lyrical display while adopting a somewhat harder-edged musical approach are perceived, generally.
It's more curiosity and a hint of incredulity that spawns this rather than any attempt to maintain that glam should or should not fit in, and so on.

And I think Ilwhyan is probably dead on...
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elf48687789
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:03 pm
Posts: 1623
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:37 pm 
 

I kind of think it was accepted by some, not diehard thrashers, but I don't know if there were quite that many in the mid 1980s, maybe more towards the end of the 1980s. And I would bet 1980s underground metal in general is much more popular now than it was in the 1980s. The first wave of thrash easily lasted into the early 1990s in my opinion.

On the other hand there were those who would wear Quiet Riot and Van Halen t-shirts one day, the next Metallica, and probably AC/DC the day after that. I think the most influential guitarists were Tony Iommi, Jimmy Page and Eddie Van Halen, not to mention the shred scene, which had its own thing going. I seriously doubt that when bands like Testament played sports arenas all the people there were die hard thrash fans. The sports arena thing ended in the US by the mid-1990s though, not in Europe but that's another story, by that time really a different scene too.


THEMICRULAH wrote:
I really don't like glam metal. Purple hair and shitty riffs, who cares about that?

I don't know where you got that, purple hair would be much too punk in the 1980s for glam rockers. They wouldn't like it. Perms and occasional bleached hair were their thing.

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Delta_Wing
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 870
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:52 pm 
 

Turner wrote:
They weren't even listening to iron maiden. it was purely metallica, pantera, sepultura, biohazard, fear factory, prong, etc. groove-thrash and death metal.


God I remember those mid 90's. Awful time to be a metal head. I was over Metallica completely, Sepultura turned to shit and everyone was listening to Biohazard and Onix "Slam". Crinch shutter. I remember going to an Ozzy concert where Sepultura was opening in an old Maiden England shirt and feeling strangely out of place. Awful times. I seriously got into hardcore punk then, BlackFlag, Misfits, DOA, Gorilla Biscuits, Minor Threat, etc... Those bands and the old guard metal I loved from the 80's and early death metal scene got me through 93-94, then I found black metal.

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Wrldeatr
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 34
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:06 pm 
 

Have no idea what OP means, but there's nothing intrinsically wrong musically speaking with glam. How can you argue with Warren DeMartini's musicianship, for instance? Of course, looking like chicks is another matter altogether, especially while pretending to be super studs. It's in the nature of history that the old becomes new again and that in this mania for the new people will draw from the past. And overall music has expanded in such a way that everything is accepted, everything has somewhat of a following. And sure perhaps music has gotten too serious, and metalheads and musicians have started to take themselves way to seriously such that the introduction of a lighter and more fun mindset will have appeal.

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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1087
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:22 pm 
 

Terri23 wrote:
Also, living in Australia, a lot of what Turner says about a glam revival is true. Adelaide in particular has a growing glam scene that while not mainstream by any stretch, certainly has a huge underground fanbase, and has had one for about a decade now.


yep, sydney was the same when i lived there in '06-'08. lots of glam rockers getting around - they generally all seemed to live around the eastern suburbs (while the rest of the metal scene was concentrated around the inner west, and the bogan dimebag crowd out at fucken rooty hill) and treated oxford st like some kind of sunset strip. not that they were an actual presence there, mind you! they subscribed more to the l.a guns school of glam rocking than warrant, though - more intent on looking greasy and shitty than looking pretty, although there was a bit of overlap.


Last edited by Turner on Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Terri23
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 2089
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:25 pm 
 

I live in Sydney now, and yeah, I've seen a little of that Oxford St crowd, and it's still the same. There's a bit of what I assume is goth out there mixing in with that glam, but with Oxford St, you can never really be sure.
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blackdiamond74
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:39 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:44 pm 
 

My very formative years, i.e. pre-teen to early teens, of listening to music was in the heyday of glam. I took a shine to some of it, and some of it still holds up - to an extent - today. It was during this time when there was a weird mix of music coming through my headphones. So when I was spinning Dr. Feelgood I also started to really like Seasons in the Abyss and Persistence of Time. Those two were kind of my gateway into something that I genuinely liked that was a lot edgier than Motley or Poison, who I consider to be amongst the worst purveyors of glam. And Firehouse. At this time any exposure to metal came from Metal Edge and Hit Parader or a friend. Some folks my age, and I was a huge Kiss fan back in the day even in the lean non-makeup years, are still stuck in that glam/cock rock mode. And those folks are as close-minded as some of the people that post on this board, e.g. 'How can you listen to that, you can't even tell what they're saying?' versus 'Purple hair and shitty riffs, who cares about that?'. Even though that's way in the rear view mirror, every now and then I'll still revisit Ratt (In Your Direction is a great song) and Dokken (who Alan Averill genuinely likes), who were basically a heavy rock band that tried to look glam to fit in. It's okay to listen to the newest Inquisition and then take a trip down memory lane to listen to Sonic Temple (I get they weren't glam but it was during that period) or Too Fast For Love. No ones going to take your metal card away.

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Ancient_Mariner
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:20 pm
Posts: 320
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:47 pm 
 

Part of the reason I remember people around hating Metallica on the s/t so much was now the glammers were proclaimed Metallica fans. Suddenly the glammers thought nothing else mattered but the once anti-glam band.

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Opus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 1716
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:42 pm 
 

elf48687789 wrote:
THEMICRULAH wrote:
I really don't like glam metal. Purple hair and shitty riffs, who cares about that?

I don't know where you got that,

It's just jumping on a non-existant bandwagon. It's bound to look silly.
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Opus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 1716
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:47 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
I'm wondering if the dismissive attitude toward glam among "real metalheads" was as severe in the 80s/early 90s as I initially had thought, and, related to that, if the attitude toward the style among a perceived general population of metalheads has softened as grunge, nu-metal and metalcore have come and gone over the years.

I'm sure there was a vocal minority that was "dismissive" towards glam back then, just as some are dismissive towards it now. I'm sure the same people are, and were, dismissive towards free-form jazz, top 40 music and cello concertos too.
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Von Jugel
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Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:49 am
Posts: 214
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:57 pm 
 

Don't fully understand the premise of Abominatrix's post, but it was a good read. I'll just run with the OP title.

That bands I first got into sucked, but I learned about what this "metal" thing was anyways.

I turned 10 in the middle of 1987, and that's when I first got MTV. Headbanger's Ball was past my bedtime, so my favorite bands initially where Bon Jovi, Europe, and maybe Whitesnake. Someone about 10 years older than me probably listened to mostly AOR bands before finding out about Priest, Scorpions, and AC/DC, etc., so perhaps Bon Jovi was like my generation's Foreigner. I thought the band Poison was dangerous, and Motley Crue even moreso. Then I discovered Headbanger's Ball finally, then later some magazines like RIP.

So then it got to the point of being all about what is "poser" and what is not. That's kind of a rite-of-passage of budding metalheads when you hear one song, and at that moment you instantly declare everything you've heard up to that point to be lame. Maybe we've had several of those moments throughout the years.

But I did notice that after the 90's, older metalheads were more open to admitting to their appreciation for the hair and spandex bands, early Motley Crue, Ratt, Twisted Sister, etc. Good rock and roll is good rock and roll.

Thanks to the internet (and friends), I've been able to get into the US Power Metal bands that I normally would have perceived as "posers" circa 1990. After years of listening to bands repeat themselves for decades, be it black, death, doom, etc., it's sometimes quite refreshing to hear one of the those glam band's songs for that era, even if it's one you always hated.

As far as a resurgence of "Hair Metal" with today's 20-somethings, it's obviously going to be yesterday's Good Charlotte and My Chemical Romance or whatever updated. It won't really harken back to what the 80's bands sounded like, I'm guessing.

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Yayattasa
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:49 am
Posts: 513
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:36 pm 
 

Twisted Sister is Heavy Metal, really. I hear no Glam Metal in their sound.
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ThrashingTheRedemer
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:50 am
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:36 pm 
 

Turner wrote:
Terri23 wrote:
Also, living in Australia, a lot of what Turner says about a glam revival is true. Adelaide in particular has a growing glam scene that while not mainstream by any stretch, certainly has a huge underground fanbase, and has had one for about a decade now.


yep, sydney was the same when i lived there in '06-'08. lots of glam rockers getting around - they generally all seemed to live around the eastern suburbs (while the rest of the metal scene was concentrated around the inner west, and the bogan dimebag crowd out at fucken rooty hill) and treated oxford st like some kind of sunset strip. not that they were an actual presence there, mind you! they subscribed more to the l.a guns school of glam rocking than warrant, though - more intent on looking greasy and shitty than looking pretty, although there was a bit of overlap.


Hell City Glamours and Doomfoxx were mainstays of this movement, the latter band having additional cred with its personnel links to Rose Tattoo (RIP Mick Cocks). Melbourne seems to have a more active glam scene though, with venues like Cherry Bar et al giving these types of bands a regular outlet

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Exigence
Age: 28 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
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Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:44 pm 
 

I'm just as much a fan of hard rock as any "metal" group. So going from Deep Purple to Rainbow to Whitesnake back to Dio to 80s Sabbath to Priest is no big deal. Stuff like Dokken, Warrant and so forth is decent to me. I love shit like Eddie Money and Bryan Adams, so anything that is harder pop rock is fine by me.

But anytime people draw hard lines in the sand about fucking hobbies - I'm out. That shit's for free periods in high school. Once you're past age 17, you should know no adult gives a shit.

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Delduwath
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:30 pm 
 

Maybe it's because I was barely conscious in the 80s (born in '86), but I don't mind listening to glam at all. I appreciate it for what it is, which isn't anything substantive at all. I prefer lots of other music to glam, but fuck if I don't have a Skid Row tape in my car.

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tomcat_ha
Veteran

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:23 am 
 

I noticed not much in real life, but i definitely did notice more people on these forums being more open about glam metal of the harder edged kind. See most of the more positive posts in thread vs how such a thread like this would have been in 2006.

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volutetheswarth
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:37 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:58 am 
 

I like glam to a point, some stuff is so derivative though that it's hard not to poke fun, especially the obligatory cheesy ballads contained on every record. I just picture Michael Bolton every time I hear one and feel my brain cells dying. Don't know what it is but I usually like the not as well-known bands, none of the big hits like Dokken appeal to me apart from one or two songs. The bands that mixed AOR and heavy metal have way more staying power for me. Not to mention the straight-laced metal bands that dabbled in glam in the late 80's delivered some great tunes, some of the best on offer in that time period if I do say so.

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Dankuponatime
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:32 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:53 am 
 

I've never really been into Glam Metal. Even the bands that I used to be into (Guns N Roses, Twisted Sister and a few others) I've grown out of. To be fair, I didn't come anywhere close to growing up in 80s since I'm 22 now so maybe if I had grown up when Glam Metal was a lot more prevalent I would see it differently. Even that is questionable though because as far as Metal goes, I generally tend to listen more to the heavier side of it. The only bands I can think of in the genre that I'm into are Aerosmith, if that counts, and Skid Row.

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10169
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:43 am 
 

Opus wrote:
Abominatrix wrote:
I'm wondering if the dismissive attitude toward glam among "real metalheads" was as severe in the 80s/early 90s as I initially had thought, and, related to that, if the attitude toward the style among a perceived general population of metalheads has softened as grunge, nu-metal and metalcore have come and gone over the years.

I'm sure there was a vocal minority that was "dismissive" towards glam back then, just as some are dismissive towards it now. I'm sure the same people are, and were, dismissive towards free-form jazz, top 40 music and cello concertos too.


Hm, I don't see how that follows, nor why you bring up those completely unrelated forms of music--never intended this to be one of those "are metalheads intolerant toward other styles of music" thread, and indeed, this is very specifically about music that values a certain visual aesthetic and attitude over actual music, so a dismissive attitude among those who generally don't appreciate that sort of theatricality should be understandable.

The link between most of the glam/hair bands and more traditional AOR one is not one I really considered much before, but it is pretty obvious isn't it? A lot of these bands do seem to come off as a slightly heavier take on Foreigner, Journey, etc. I never watched MTV or really listened to any contemporary popular music until the early 90s, so I'm only becoming exposed to these bands now as I check them out, mostly on the Internet. When I heard that Slaughter were playing there was some confusion as to whether it was the legendary and local death/thrash act (I know, I know), and after my friend and I established it was the US band, he pointed me to what he thought was their most popular song. Can't remember the title now but it was a downright horrendous ballad.
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thrashinbatman
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:41 am 
 

It could be just the "poser" element, couldn't it? Both fanbases called themselves metalheads and bands on both sides called themselves metal bands. The "true metal" guys would have hated the glam guys just because they were on such opposite ends of the spectrum but were frequently grouped together. Now that glam isn't riding high like it's 80's heyday, it's no longer "us vs. them", just the two varieties of music, and people have warmed up to it. I feel the most comparable movement right now is the -core movement, people who listen to genres such as post-hardcore or deathcore are lumped in as metalheads, and this similarly pisses the "true metal" folks off. I could be completely off the mark, however.

I myself grew up on glam metal, and I still love a great majority of the bands, especially Ratt and Motley Crue. But I guess I'd understand if you aren't into it.

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Manic Maniac
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:50 am 
 

Did anyone else facepalm when they read "White Wizard (not metal enough for this site)" or am I the only one?
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The Infamous Bastard
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:53 am 
 

Glam metal is just hard rock/heavy metal with colorful band members for me. There's no such thing as the glam metal sound I'd say.

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Scorntyrant
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:58 am 
 

I can remember a distinct moment in around 92-93 where it died. Or at least for me. I would have been 14-15 or so at the time. the year before, we used to ask each other what music you were into, and the answer was the same old shit "Oh, you know, GNR, Crue etc". I can recall somewhere around 93 making a conscious decision that "I like the heavy guitar tone, but fuck I hate the glam attitude/themes/people". That was around the same time that grunge got big, and I liked that because living in the country in New Zealand I just could not relate to the "cocaine and big-titted sluts" themes. Grunge hit a chord because it was made by depressed small-town dudes for depressed small town dudes. I remember thinking "I really want to like Metal, but it's so DUMB" with respect to what was regarded as such at the time.

Then I recall coming across a Guitar World magazine someone left in the common room at school with the "Grindcore special" enclosed. Reading about Morbid Angel, Godflesh, Napalm Death,Carcass, Entombed etc etc set me off on a tangent, seeking out these hard-to-find casettes. After that, Glam was not only slightly silly, but a symptom of all the shit I hated (or thought I did) at the time about "rocker culture" - the casual sexism, the unreflective worldview, the "party on Wayne" attitude that I wanted to be miles away from. I grew up with my Dad's Leonard Cohen and Neil Young albums - I wanted to find extreme music that had that kind of world-weary and profound lyricism. I found it in Grind, and in a different way in the Death and Black metal scenes as they became available to me. But I never, ever, saw anything relevant to my life in Glam.

As for the "neo-glam" people you see around (at least in Australia), I hate it as well. I just cant be accommodating about the idea that Metal is "for fun". Part of me always says "If you're having fun, you're not getting it". Which probably says more about my own depressive illness and social maladjustment than anything else, but there you go. They just seemed to be young, handsome guys having fun, drinking beers and getting chicks, which when I think of it now is what I wish I spent more time doing when I was in my early 20's. But back then, I was 100% serious business, and I viewed them with a combination of jealousy and perceived frivolity.
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Opus
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:14 am 
 

The Infamous Bastard wrote:
Glam metal is just hard rock/heavy metal with colorful band members for me. There's no such thing as the glam metal sound I'd say.

Well put!
There certainly was a LOOK in the 80s that didn't necesserily have to do with how the music sounded. Bands ranging from Rolling Stones clones to thrash could look pretty much the same.
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themicrulah
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:27 am 
 

Well since I think that a band's visual aesthetic can really help to bring out the feelings they are trying to portray with the actual music, I can't take seriously a band that is all glammed up and playing what is usually really mediocre and uninspired NWOBHM riffs. I can't get down with their vibe if their cover art is a picture of a bunch of dudes that look like girls and banal riffs. There are exceptions however when the band actually has good riffs, but I can't think of any. A lot of NWOBHM bands from the eighties kind of blur this line.

I like the band New York Dolls who were pretty glam in their visual appearance but they are more rock and roll than metal in their guitar riffs.
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:34 am 
 

Opus wrote:
Abominatrix wrote:
I'm wondering if the dismissive attitude toward glam among "real metalheads" was as severe in the 80s/early 90s as I initially had thought, and, related to that, if the attitude toward the style among a perceived general population of metalheads has softened as grunge, nu-metal and metalcore have come and gone over the years.

I'm sure there was a vocal minority that was "dismissive" towards glam back then, just as some are dismissive towards it now. I'm sure the same people are, and were, dismissive towards free-form jazz, top 40 music and cello concertos too.

Out of interest due to my liking of cello concertos, were there such parallels with the phenomena you mentioned? Were they considered artistically less valid because of having cello as the solo instrument, or was it that the concertos' quality was categorically considered lower for other reasons by some?
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Exigence
Age: 28 (Wait, what?!)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:39 am 
 

You have to have an attitude like Lemmy on this. Glam bands brought more chicks out to clubs. That helps everybody.

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joppek
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:44 am 
 

thrashinbatman wrote:
It could be just the "poser" element, couldn't it? Both fanbases called themselves metalheads and bands on both sides called themselves metal bands. The "true metal" guys would have hated the glam guys just because they were on such opposite ends of the spectrum but were frequently grouped together. Now that glam isn't riding high like it's 80's heyday, it's no longer "us vs. them", just the two varieties of music, and people have warmed up to it. I feel the most comparable movement right now is the -core movement, people who listen to genres such as post-hardcore or deathcore are lumped in as metalheads, and this similarly pisses the "true metal" folks off. I could be completely off the mark, however.


imo you're right on the mark - of course the actual music plays a role too, but i'd say "the post element", as you put it, was/is at least as big a part of it, and probably bigger
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Opus
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:00 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
Out of interest due to my liking of cello concertos, were there such parallels with the phenomena you mentioned? Were they considered artistically less valid because of having cello as the solo instrument, or was it that the concertos' quality was categorically considered lower for other reasons by some?

It's because cellists use too much vibrato in the higher register. And they are gay.
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Opus
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:04 pm 
 

THEMICRULAH wrote:
...I can't take seriously a band that is all glammed up and playing what is usually really mediocre and uninspired NWOBHM riffs.

So you enjoy really mediocre and uninspired NWOBHM riffs if the band looks "cool"?
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themicrulah
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:17 pm 
 

Yes, because that is exactly what I meant. :wanker:
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TadGhostal
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:56 pm 
 

The Infamous Bastard wrote:
Glam metal is just hard rock/heavy metal with colorful band members for me. There's no such thing as the glam metal sound I'd say.


Well, I don't think that's entirely true. Glam metal definitely had a coalesced around a sound by the mid to late '80s. I guess you could debate how "metal" it was but whatever, that's a different story. Bands like Poison, Tuff, Warrant, etc., had certainly developed a particular musical approach. I think the one unfortunate aspect of the times was that eventually every hard rock band was lumped in as glam and they suffered a backlash when people got sick of glam.

Anyway, for a kid who turned 10 in 1987, glam was certainly a gateway for me to heavier music. I think it was that way for a lot of people who are my age. It seems to me like it was kinda the soundtrack for a lot of white suburban kids in the late '80s. But there was definitely a line back then. People might have been fans of Motley Crue and heavier bands like Judas Priest or Iron Maiden but people who got into thrash and really heavy stuff definitely hated glam. That's how it seemed to me, at least. Things have changed now and there a people who are into really heavy stuff that also have an affinity for glam, but a lot glam metal today is like retro fashion. Many people like it because it's fun and represents a certain time for them, even if they weren't there when it actually happened. But, I think that is what happens when you get some distance from something. I'm pretty sure the nu-metal bands of the late '90s will probably experience a similar re-evaluation at some point because they were also a gateway for a lot of kids.

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