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Techno Viper
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:55 pm
Posts: 40
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:39 am 
 

Yesterday, I was at my local dollar store at the checkout line, when the subject of metal came up. Of course, this immediately piked my interest. Two female cashiers were jokingly ribbing on each other about her musical choices. So I told her I was "an expert(!)"on metal and asked her what her favorite band was. She responds with Killswitch Engage, which immediately I responded witha hearty "They suck!" with a smile before exiting the store. I later realized what an a-hole I was, but I couldn't help but wonder, why couldn't she have said her favorite band was Impetigo, or Vektor, or Nile, or Trouble, or any of the thousands of bands who deserve recognition for their great efforts? For god sakes, Dan Lilker works at Party City! My two metal friends I frequently go to shows with are the same way. The rest of the crowd goes crazy for some shit grindcore band, while us three in the back are making fun of them. Are YOU a metal snob? Not an elitist per say, but more of a metal afficiando who recognizes good music when you hear it. Why does it seem the most popular of bands regardless of genre tend to suck? I knew a girl who I swear loved every shit metal band that came down the pike. I'm talking 5FingerDeathPunch,Slipknot ,Northside Kings. etc. It just seems so frustrating at times to meet people who are into heavier music but the "Wrong Bands". Or am I just a metal snob?

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jerk
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:43 am
Posts: 149
Location: Malaysia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:44 am 
 

Metal snob? Yeah, a bit. There's probably tons of people on this board who feel that way, but like you said, no need to be an asshat about it. We were all mallcore kids once (and I should probably delete The Subliminal Verses off my iPod sometime soon...). Or maybe you weren't, in which case... LIAR.

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Deviante
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 617
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:52 am 
 

Why would you do this kind of a thing? Music represents different things for different people - while your appreciation for music might be "deeper" than, say, the girl you had a talk with - it doesn't mean that you have a right to make fun of them. I know that I like films, but my knowledge and ability to analyze films is limited for sure, so if I were to have a chat with a film connoisseur, they might feel that my picks regarding good movies (and the reasons why I'd say such movies) would be shallow and mediocre at best. Of course, that would be because movies are their passion and for me - while I like movies, they merely exist for entertainment's sake (mostly).

Be happy that you enjoy music on a "different level" and keep on loving music - but if someone is happy with what they listen to, why would you bash them? It just sounds ridiculous to me that you have to think about things like "why didn't she say some <insert credible band here> instead of Killswitch Engage?". Sure, you can hate KSE (don't like them at all apart from some songs off their 2nd album myself either) but you don't need to be an asshat if someone likes them.

Of course it's a different thing if you notice/know that you're talking with a music enthusiast (of metal, for instance), because the conversation will reach different levels for various reasons.

As for your question, well, I remember feeling like a "snob" when I was possibly 15 or 16 (22 now) and had had been into extreme metal for about two years, starting to getting to know bands beneath the "entry level", which boosted my adolescent ego. After that, no, for sure I haven't felt like a snob.
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Last edited by Deviante on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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shouvince
Veteran

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:11 am
Posts: 2731
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:53 am 
 

How old are you? Anyhow, discussions on elitism out here have been done to death.

You should also get in touch with this dude: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61153
:)

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Veracs
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:56 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:19 am 
 

I think there has been and always will be a dash of elitism in the scene, for those of us who have actively consume large amounts of music we tend to jab at each other for not actively "Getting" an album, jabbing at how overrated an album is, or just jab at fellow music geek's taste for not liking one of our pet bands, at least as the tendency seems to go here at MA. There was a topic a few weeks ago that was posted in much greater depth, but for the most part especially with the lack of musical conversation some of us have in our day-to-day lives socialization with those who may know less about the music may accompany the opportune time to namedrop a favorite band as a starting point.
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ScandalfTheShite
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:46 am
Posts: 395
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:22 am 
 

Maybe I'm a bit of a snob, but I have no greater need to push my musical tastes on others. I got a friend who favours nu-metal and some newer records from bands like Slayer, but it doesn't bother me that much. Some of that stuff actually sounds quite good. Nothing that is gonna jump on my shelves, but okay stuff. Of course I would never change my Iron Maiden or Manilla Road records to those records, but I can tolerate them none the less...
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Z0MBIE
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 8:00 am
Posts: 866
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:30 am 
 

Nah, I try to stay as open as possible. Also, I rarely get the chance to be a dick about somebody's taste in metal. Not that I would if I got it.
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FengisRipRider
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:31 pm
Posts: 68
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:11 am 
 

Everyone is so damned sensative now adays, not sure why anyone would be upset about you not liking the band that they like. On that note I hate Guns and Roses and like Nazareth so make fun of me so I can go home crying from this thread.

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Cloud0129
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:04 pm
Posts: 167
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:54 am 
 

People who go "oh your music sucks! Metal up your ass!" Are the reason why people like antimetalclub on YouTube exist.

So no, I'm not a snob.

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joppek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
Posts: 880
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:16 am 
 

Deviante wrote:
I know that I like films, but my knowledge and ability to analyze films is limited for sure, so if I were to have a chat with a film connoisseur, they might feel that my picks regarding good movies (and the reasons why I'd say such movies) would be shallow and mediocre at best. Of course, that would be because movies are their passion and for me - while I like movies, they merely exist for entertainment's sake (mostly).


that's a fantastic parallel
i've considered myself a bit of a metal snob - like described in the op - for a long while now, but it never occurred to me that i'm a movie-mallcore kid
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Violent_Possessor
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:53 pm
Posts: 238
Location: New York
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:19 am 
 

FengisRipRider wrote:
Everyone is so damned sensative now adays, not sure why anyone would be upset about you not liking the band that they like. On that note I hate Guns and Roses and like Nazareth so make fun of me so I can go home crying from this thread.


It's less about not liking a band and more about coming off as a dick. If you don't like certain bands just be like "They do there thing I'm not into that kind of stuff though". Being like "That band sucks and you have a terrible taste in music" does not make you seem like a nice person.

Imagine having a conversation about food and some 5 star chef mother fucker comes up and says "I only consume the finest culinary delicacies and what you are discussing is below average garbage" and then proceeded to walk away. Now I'm sure someone wouldn't have a problem but I'd be pissed about that. That is how I think people would feel.
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McCannFan
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:23 am
Posts: 338
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:30 am 
 

Huge snob here. I never let it show (I never insult anyone's musical choices and such), but I'm always thinking "the music you like sucks".

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Poisonfume
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:26 pm
Posts: 1122
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:32 am 
 

shouvince wrote:
How old are you?


If I had a dollar for every time that's been asked on a forum. Just stop it!
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GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 410
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:50 am 
 

Insulting someone's musical tastes doesn't make you a snob, it makes you a dick.

I'll admit that it's a little annoying when I encounter people that have the completely wrong idea about metal, but I don't think that makes me a snob. It's always due to the same two things. Either a) they actually don't listen to metal but somehow have an opinion anyway, or b) their opinion is the product of pop culture.

In the first case their opinion is irrelevant, and I have an acquired immunity to irrelevant things. In the second case you can hardly blame them, since that's true for almost anything. You have to remember (and this should be obvious) that most people don't really care all that much what their music is called.

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PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:08 pm
Posts: 5787
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:53 am 
 

Techno Viper wrote:
Are YOU a metal snob? Not an elitist per say, but more of a metal afficiando who recognizes good music when you hear it.


If this is the definition, then plainly, I am.

Look, it's retarded to deny that anyone is not a snob when it comes to their music. The metal I like is particular, peculiar, and better than most metal other people on this forum like, let alone most music the gen-pop tends to gravitate towards. If you don't believe your music to be superior, you're a liar, there's a reason you listen to what you listen to.

Of course, I rarely listen to metal, and I have quite the varied pallet of music, but the same stands for everything I listen to. I listen to nothing ironically, so if I'm enjoying something, it's never as a "guilty pleasure" or for any other reason than I enjoy it. If I enjoy it, I believe it good.
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Opus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 1760
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:56 am 
 

jerk wrote:
We were all mallcore kids once

You know, not everyone in here just hit puberty.

The movies analogy is good. Most people, including most people on this forum I'd guess, settles for the latest marked-to-death "action packed" big name Hollywood drivel, and are happy with that. So yes, I am a metal snob though there are degrees of how blunt you are about it. I am also a movie snob, and a book snob. I do not intend to read 50 Shades of Grey! If you are interested in something, you care about quality, don't you? And no, it's not good because you like it, it's good because it has qualities.
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FearTheNome
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 8:41 am
Posts: 372
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:05 pm 
 

I actively avoid talking about music with people that aren't interested in (my kind of) metal. If I'm forced into it I say things like "yeah, I think I heard them before, not really my style."

Not interested in talking about music I don't like, not interested in trying to push my taste on people. No one who isn't already into this stuff will be convinced anyways.

I suppose that makes me not a snob? I guess?


Last edited by FearTheNome on Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 878
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:05 pm 
 

It is sad that even in metal the worst bands are the most popular (for the most part) I try to get people to open their ears and minds to the more underground, true, awesome metal, but it's not an easy thing to do. I have been able to convert a number of people to the dark side though, so to speak. I have found that most people who actually give it a chance will end up at least appreciating it, or even enjoying it. I've had friends and family who had the misconception that what I listen to is just angry noise and all they talk about is death, but then when they finally hear it they realize they were completely wrong.
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MARSDUDE
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:17 pm
Posts: 1685
Location: Canardia
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:25 pm 
 

I didn't like the metalcore bands that the "metalheads" at my school were obsessing over. I tried bringing up my favourite band at the time, Pain Of Salvation, but was shut down. They told me "We don't listen to emo. We listen to fuckin' metal, man!!"

I stopped trying to fit in at that moment.

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Oblivion_Gene
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 3:03 pm
Posts: 108
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:31 pm 
 

Techno Viper wrote:
The rest of the crowd goes crazy for some shit grindcore band, while us three in the back are making fun of them.


Aren't you special.

No, I try not to be a snob to people I don't know when talking about music. However, if I'm among friends who are into metal we take the piss out of each others' tastes just for the hell of it. If I'm with other musically-inclined friends I generally have respect for their tastes even if I don't care for whatever they're digging at the time. If someone takes the time to seriously delve into genres that I don't particularly care for, it still shows they're dedicated to the art, so I won't give them shit for it.

That said, I probably would've had a laugh watching the whole interaction between you and the cashier take place.

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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1180
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:42 pm 
 

It's almost at the point where I think being into "real" metal, especially as a teenager, kinda hard-wires you into being reeeeal intolerant towards bands like Killswitch Engage (and in my case, this latest influx of neckbeard stoner doom). Even though I barely even identify as a metalhead anymore, and definitely don't give a shit about the scene or any of that, for some reason some things still set me off, although I do my best to control it. It's like metal-induced autism!

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Deviante
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:59 pm
Posts: 617
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:44 pm 
 

Turner wrote:
[...]for some reason some things still set me off, although I do my best to control it. It's like metal-induced autism!

This is priceless. :lol:
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Ancelot
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:07 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:45 pm 
 

To be honest, I never understood the need some metal fans have to make it look like Metal is some kind of higher art form above everything and everyone else.

People get drawn to music for differente reasons, hence differente types of music will appeal to them in different ways. While most people in this forum thinks bands like Killswitch Engage or Slipknot sucks, fans of those bands may think the ones we like are terrible, and they have every right to do so.

Making fun of people because of their music taste or trying to inflict our taste onto others is not snob at all, is just plain stupid.

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joppek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
Posts: 880
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:06 pm 
 

Ancelot wrote:
While most people in this forum thinks bands like Killswitch Engage or Slipknot sucks, fans of those bands may think the ones we like are terrible, and they have every right to do so.


everyone here has surely heard more killswitch and slipknot than they ever wanted to, but the people who like those bands probably haven't heard nearly as much suffocation or anata, so there's a difference in opinion formation - is it informed or prejudice induced
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Ancelot
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:07 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:21 pm 
 

joppek wrote:
Ancelot wrote:
While most people in this forum thinks bands like Killswitch Engage or Slipknot sucks, fans of those bands may think the ones we like are terrible, and they have every right to do so.


everyone here has surely heard more killswitch and slipknot than they ever wanted to, but the people who like those bands probably haven't heard nearly as much suffocation or anata, so there's a difference in opinion formation - is it informed or prejudice induced


I agree, but on the other hand you don't have to listen to something to decide weather you like it or not. Actually, let rephrase that. You don't have to listen to specific band to know weather you like it or not.

You mention Suffocation, if someone doesn't like death metal, they don't have to listen to them to not like them.
No one here listened to every pop singer out there to decide that they don't like pop music.
That happens even within the boundaries of metal.

I don't like black metal. Of course I haven't heard every black metal band in the world, but since I don't like the genre I don't pay attention to them.

So having a fully informed opinion isn't always necessary and the doesn't mean that it is prejudice induced.

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PureFrackingArmageddon
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:42 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Tuvalu
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:23 pm 
 

When people are talking about music and they list shit bands I recommend good ones instead of just hating on them, the only reason I was introduced to good death metal was because one of my sisters friends burned me a bunch of great cd's (Origin, Necrophagist, Suffocation etc) when I was in 7th grade still listening to Slipknot and shit like that.

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soul_schizm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 am
Posts: 643
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:30 pm 
 

Yeah, that's probably the better way to go.

I used to hate on bands, but I just don't have the energy to care anymore. I like what I like, and everyone else is free to do the same.

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Against Such Things
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 8:16 pm
Posts: 450
Location: Southern Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:50 pm 
 

I can be a bit of an ass from time to time, but mostly I just don't like ignorance about metal. I'm finishing up a class on the history of rock music. Each student had to do an oral presentation on a song, and I couldn't help but facepalm when someone called Motley Crue "seriously heavy metal" or Nirvana "grunge metal". Also, if someone is propogating a false, negative stereotype about something, I'd say it's totally appropriate to correct them on that.
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Ancient_Sorrow
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:10 pm
Posts: 2182
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:05 pm 
 

I was about to start this post with "I never judge people for what they listen to"...

Lies.

I'd imagine we all do. If you're on Metal Archives, there's a good chance that the likes of Killswitch Engage, Slipknot or Avenged Sevenfold will activate the "that's not fucking metal!" module of the brain. It all depends on how one chooses to act on that impulse - the more hostile among us might to resort to literally saying the above, whereas I tend to respond with "not really my thing" when posed with a question pertaining to such bands.

Theoretically, I'm fine with people enjoying any music, but I'm actually more prone to judge "near-metal" listeners the most - I often find myself thinking elitist thoughts when posed with mallcore kids, especially if they talk-down to you, saying normative things from a perceived higher, condescending position; "Metalcore is metal, you know" type stuff. I wouldn't dream of telling them their music was shit, unless I was in a monumentally bad mood, although I'm fairly open about telling them it's not metal.

The only one which really gets to me is dire misinformation - people who are ostensibly metal-heads, but aren't. Some really gems come out of conversations with them;

Me: "Well, I guess death metal really kicked off with bands like Death"
Them: "Yeah, Megadeth are pretty good, you're right".


...We're all bastards, but at least we can feel like vaguely-correct bastards.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 18930
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:15 pm 
 

joppek wrote:
Ancelot wrote:
While most people in this forum thinks bands like Killswitch Engage or Slipknot sucks, fans of those bands may think the ones we like are terrible, and they have every right to do so.


everyone here has surely heard more killswitch and slipknot than they ever wanted to, but the people who like those bands probably haven't heard nearly as much suffocation or anata, so there's a difference in opinion formation - is it informed or prejudice induced


Yeah but thinking that means anything about them as people, or that they have any less right to have such opinions. That's just called being a jackass.

It's true that people who listen to a lot of music or consume a lot of any other hobby will be snobs about it, but that just means they're passionate about it. Doesn't mean you're any better than anyone else; just means you have a great appreciation for some kind of art.

These days I really don't care about metalcore or deathcore or whatever because, for one, I don't really care if people like it now, and two, not everyone has to like the same shit I do.

Techno Viper wrote:
why couldn't she have said her favorite band was Impetigo, or Vektor, or Nile, or Trouble, or any of the thousands of bands who deserve recognition for their great efforts?


What are you fucking kidding me? Maybe because she finds things she likes in KSE that none of those bands would provide? It's not like KSE or any of those other metalcore bands are trying to be like the bands you listed and failing. It's a completely different demographic.
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BasqueStorm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 1943
Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:17 pm 
 

GTog wrote:
Insulting someone's musical tastes doesn't make you a snob, it makes you a dick.

Bingo!
P.S: Do you realize you did NOT try, at least, to understand WHY she likes those bands?

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metroplex
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:28 am
Posts: 435
Location: Peru
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:31 pm 
 

jerk wrote:
We were all mallcore kids once


Guess i was lucky, because I never were one.

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inhumanist
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm
Posts: 4280
Location: 50 Forts Along The Rhine
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:41 pm 
 

GTog wrote:
Insulting someone based on his musical tastes doesn't make you a snob, it makes you a dick.

FTFY

Just telling people that the music they like sucks usually doesn't accomplish anything other than hostility. The key is discussing why it sucks.
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mekhthecat
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:24 am
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:04 pm 
 

The bottom line is that I have no friends in real life who listen to "real metal". Its disappointing when the dude at work thinks he's metal for listening to As I Lay Dying, but hey - that's a lot better than what most people are doing. If you guys are anything like me, you have some wicked metal skeletons in your closet (Nothingface, Skinlab anyone?) so I tend to be nice to these people, downplay how much I hate the shit they listen to, and try to recommend some bands with crossover appeal as to help them find real metal. Life has taught me that no one I meet through the course of my day will know who the fuck Dissection or Decrepit Birth are so I don't really expect it from anyone.

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xThe__Wizard
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:59 pm
Posts: 845
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:07 pm 
 

Techno Viper wrote:
For god sakes, Dan Lilker works at Party City!


Does he still work there? I haven't been there lately but everytime I go he isn't there and the guy is pretty tall too.

I don't think you are a snob you are just an idiot. You see, girls usually have bad tastes in music especially when it comes to stuff like "metal" so whenever I hear "I LIEK METAL" from a girl I take it with a grain of salt and expect the worse. If they say something I like then I'm happy if not oh well. It's music man get over yourself. No one will hang out or talk to you if you act superior.
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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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Location: Qu├ębec
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:08 pm 
 

I'm totally a thread snob, I'll snob this one before it gets too lame.
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