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doedningepalle
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:32 am
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:25 am 
 

I was listening to some Diocletian the other day and think it´s quite wicked, but i noticed that one of their patches
Has quite strong similarities with the Aryan Nations logo.
Diocletian has a logo with a dagger and a sign / wolfshead/angel. Was thinking it´s very similar to the wolfsangel.
Anyone knows if it´s a band related to white supremacist/skinhead bands?

http://www.nwnprod.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 0625002ce4

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The_Minstrel51
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:06 am
Posts: 631
Location: Kor-Avul-Thaa
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:08 pm 
 

The wolfsangel doesn't necessarily infer white supremacist or NS views. However, at least one of the (apparently former) members has a black sun tattoo, though again that does also have meanings other than the NS association. Then there are the lyrics of "Werewolf Directive", which are somewhat questionable, though they were written by Pete Helmkamp, who may or may not be a white supremacist (Angelcorpse do have some have similar themes in certain songs, if memory serves). Also, a couple of the members are/were in Heresiarch, who had a release on SSP and do seem to have some subtle NS themes.

On the other hand, one of the main guys has been seen to wear a shirt of the crust/d-beat band Wolfpack/Wolfbrigade, who changed their name to avoid NS associations (and who were presumably at least somewhat left-wing, though I don't know for sure as I've never really checked them out). I do seem to recall Helmkamp wearing a Wolfpack shirt as well... I may be wrong, but didn't they do a Doom cover as well? All that being said, musical influences don't really have anything to do with politics. They've also played Thailand I believe, and possibly Singapore though that may have been Witchrist.

Anyway, I doubt the band is white power and/or NS, but as to the personal views of the members, who knows? A fair amount bands from NZ and Australia seem to have a few ties to the white power scene and/or use some similar imagery.

Either way, Diocletian's music rules.

Anyone have any further info?
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Marag
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:33 pm 
 

Are they? Who knows. But a lot of these bands uses fascist-like imagery just for the hell of it

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Scorntyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:55 am
Posts: 1123
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:40 pm 
 

I've known the guys for years, they are not nazis.
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doedningepalle
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:32 am
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:52 am 
 

Hey thanks for info and thoughts, I agree the music definitely rules!!

Any other wicked bands from NZ in death genre, which is well produced?

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Werewolf
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:58 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:45 am 
 

doedningepalle wrote:
Any other wicked bands from NZ in death genre, which is well produced?

Ignivomous is very recommended, if you like stuff like Incantation (especially), Immolation, Dead Congregation and such:

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ignivomous/88584
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Scorntyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:55 am
Posts: 1123
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:51 am 
 

Werewolf wrote:
doedningepalle wrote:
Any other wicked bands from NZ in death genre, which is well produced?

Ignivomous is very recommended, if you like stuff like Incantation (especially), Immolation, Dead Congregation and such:

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ignivomous/88584



Heh, while I DID live in NZ for a long time, I'm a native Aussie as are the rest of the band.

Check out the first Dawn of Azazel album, Ulcerate and Sinistrous Diabolus.
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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4242
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:29 am 
 

The_Minstrel51 wrote:
Either way, Diocletian's music rules.

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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4242
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:33 am 
 

doedningepalle wrote:
Any other wicked bands from NZ in death genre, which is well produced?


Witchrist, and Heresiarch.

I like Shihad too :-D

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BottomFeeder1
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:09 am
Posts: 342
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:43 pm 
 

I have a bad ass Diocletian long sleeve that contains three of these symbols. What was that werewolf propaganda the Nazis were spreading at the end of war? I believe it was along the lines of if enemy forces take our land and push the front lines deeper into Germany than we have to rise up and resist from behind their lines and throw wrenches in the gears where possible... Perhaps the symbol was more widly used than that back then. Type in the words nazi werewolf and the symbol will appear, minus the sword.
As for other bands from New Zealand I would go for VASSAFOR and Witchrist.

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RitualWarCommand
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:09 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Portland, Oregon USA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:07 pm 
 

Who cares. Diocletian rule.
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DefenderOf AncestralBlood
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 9:01 pm
Posts: 104
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:45 am 
 

Stellar band.

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Rild
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:38 pm
Posts: 623
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:12 am 
 

I have a diocletian hood with that patch graphic on the back, surrounded by a shield. Most badass piece of clothing I own. elite aesthetics!
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satanic_neumann
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:01 pm
Posts: 364
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:41 am 
 

They are not a political band but if the logo keeps leftist hipsters away from this band, the better. Anyway, good music.

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dreadmeat
emere vendere cambire

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:50 am
Posts: 6229
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:19 pm 
 

Sinate and Human are both pretty good, and Skuldom!
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phantaz
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:05 am
Posts: 130
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:45 pm 
 

Scorntyrant wrote:
I've known the guys for years, they are not nazis.


And you say that because you know them? How can we be sure you aren't a right-wing supporter?
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Scourge441
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:38 am
Posts: 842
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:04 pm 
 

phantaz wrote:
Scorntyrant wrote:
I've known the guys for years, they are not nazis.


And you say that because you know them? How can we be sure you aren't a right-wing supporter?

The typical nazi metalhead is either A) very vocal about his/her NS beliefs, or B) if he's in a band, dodges the issue by saying "*insert band name* is not a political band." Very rarely, at least in my experience, do you see NS metalheads outright deny their beliefs.

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ogmetal
Veteran of the Psychic Wars

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:22 pm
Posts: 4001
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:54 am 
 

phantaz wrote:
Scorntyrant wrote:
I've known the guys for years, they are not nazis.


And you say that because you know them? How can we be sure you aren't a right-wing supporter?


Is this some inquisition? He said he knows them and since i do too and i have worked with them, i know this to be true.
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Scorntyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:55 am
Posts: 1123
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:56 am 
 

phantaz wrote:
Scorntyrant wrote:
I've known the guys for years, they are not nazis.


And you say that because you know them? How can we be sure you aren't a right-wing supporter?


As mentioned below, people who are out and out NS usually dont make a secret of it - it would be a pretty poor effort in terms of converting people or pushing an agenda to "beat about the bush" as they say. Not that it would matter if I was a right-wing supporter, we're not talking about me here. Regardless of which, its no secret who I am and if you follow that line of reasoning you will read interview after interview in which I say that I dont believe politics has a place in Metal and that my own opinions are closer to anarchism than anything else.

You Europeans have such a bee in your bonnet about the whole thing that you lose sight of the fact that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar as Mr.Freud once said. Down in this part of the world, we dont make bands sign declarations that they have nothing to do with those views and treat them with suspicion if they dont. We operate on the assumption that if a band has NS views they will make it obvious one way or another and dont bother with the paranoia and witch-hunting. Innocent until proven guilty.

Look at the logic of your statement - it's a tautology if you pursue it with such suspicion. If I didnt know them, how could I know enough to comment? Round and round it goes with no end in sight.

At any rate, what many people outside of Aus/NZ miss about the occasional interest displayed in what could be described as "questionable subject matter" by bands down here is that it owes more to the WTF sci-fi aspect of hollow earth theories/nazi ufo's/etc etc that many of us (particularly those from NZ) stumbled across through zines like Nexus etc back in the early 90's than it does to any endorsement of the right as a political platform. Because there is not the immediate sense of history behind those subjects that there is in Europe, it's not automatically perceived as an endorsement to be interested in such things. More "Iron Sky" than "Mein Kampf" if you like.
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phantaz
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:05 am
Posts: 130
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:36 am 
 

I am not here to 'burn witches', if I may say. And yes, we in Europe tend to stay a lot more alert about these subjects, I agree, but you must understand that Europe went through it... the rough way, and it left scares and fright.
If Dioclatian is NS or not, do respect my position, but I will not believe in the word of someone who says 'They are not nazis because I have known them for ages' (and please, do not take this as an attack), because I do not know them eheheh
The whole image behind them does direct people towards that idea. We do know that the swastika does have more than one meaning (not that Diocletian has ever used - as far as I know - one) but for those unaware of the meanings, everything is the same eheh
I do like Diocletian but would prefer to know that they are not NS (I am one of those that connects music with politics, get over it people).
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Lebenswinter
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:00 am
Posts: 2
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:47 am 
 

Of course it's an abstract Wolfsangel. This symbol is not forbidden. Listening to bestial War Bands like Diocletian and crying because of 'evil' symbols ... ridiculous! This Logo is awesome and in Germany still a lot of organizations (Hunters e.g.) and Coat of Arms have this symbol in it. Whoever is offended by symbols must have a rather weak personality and doesn't belong to Black Metal music at all!

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phantaz
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:05 am
Posts: 130
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:05 am 
 

Being german and crying because people hate their past... ridiculous! xD
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Turner
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:04 am
Posts: 1279
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:55 am 
 

Haha, I love it when people offer the act of not being a card-carrying NS group member as proof of being devoid of racist views. Or the even more laughable "if they're nazis, they'll come out" sentiment above. Nobody believes that for even a second.

"How could I be a nazi? I don't even have a shaved head!"

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phantaz
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:05 am
Posts: 130
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:57 am 
 

Turner wrote:
"How could I be a nazi? I don't even have a shaved head!"


LOLOL :D
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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4242
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:07 am 
 

Scorntyrant and Ogmetal are two guys on this board who have had a fair bit to do with Diocletian. Take their word for it.

Enjoy the music.

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phantaz
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:05 am
Posts: 130
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:30 am 
 

lennonlikesmetal wrote:
Scorntyrant and Ogmetal are two guys on this board who have had a fair bit to do with Diocletian. Take their word for it.

Enjoy the music.


The question is: if you do not support a _insert_-wing politic, why use elements that reflect that same ideology? The situation lies there. I would never wear a Swastika.
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Rild
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:38 pm
Posts: 623
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:54 am 
 

No, the question is, are Diocletian nazis? Lo and behold, it turns out they fucking aren't. Mystery solved. On to the next case, Detective Fruitcake.

Also, can someone in the know reveal if Diocletian are planning on splitting up soon? I've heard rumors to that effect.
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phantaz
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:05 am
Posts: 130
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 2:59 pm 
 

Everyone's a comedian, in here LOL it turns out that no... they are not xD
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Antichristhammerfist
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:24 pm
Posts: 3
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:04 pm 
 

Rild wrote:
Also, can someone in the know reveal if Diocletian are planning on splitting up soon? I've heard rumors to that effect.


No. we are writing and rehearsing material for the third album.

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The_Minstrel51
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:06 am
Posts: 631
Location: Kor-Avul-Thaa
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:49 pm 
 

Antichristhammerfist wrote:
Rild wrote:
Also, can someone in the know reveal if Diocletian are planning on splitting up soon? I've heard rumors to that effect.


No. we are writing and rehearsing material for the third album.


Excellent! Eagerly awaiting it!
Is it true that the production will be more "clean" on the new album?
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IanThrash
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:56 pm
Posts: 924
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:26 pm 
 

lennonlikesmetal wrote:
Scorntyrant and Ogmetal are two guys on this board who have had a fair bit to do with Diocletian. Take their word for it.

Enjoy the music.



Everyone is like "hey enjoy the music!". I enjoy the music, be sure of that, but i´d like to know if the guys who made such great stuff are indeed arcaic assholes with primitive beliefs about racial supremacy and shit like that.


Anyway i think that the thread´s question has been answered so case closed xD.
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