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Techno Viper
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:55 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:15 pm 
 

Do you think the marginilzation of the early thrash metal genre was a conspiracy to destroy political activism within the movement,leading the record companies to promote death and black metal which are less humanitarian and less of a threat to the establishment?
Thrash was marginalized in the late '80s/early 90's. Why was this? Why did thrash bands such as Metallica, after writing politicaly charged lyrics, suddenly sing about "feelings"? Why did thrash bands, which were largely a reaction to the juvenile lyrics of the glam bands, suddenly break up, change their sound, or become grunge? Unitntelligable growling and screaching vocals do not threaten the political landscape, so is this the reason such bands were promoted by the major labels AND the niche metal labels during that time table? It could be argued that by 90-91 the thrash genre was ten years old and was begining to lose steam- but here we are in 2012 and death/black metal are still going strong, yet thrash for some reason to this day is treated like the red-headed step child of metal as if it's a dead genre and shouldn't exist. The new thrash movement which I say started with Metal Militia's 2004 album Perpetual State of Aggression, has not stepped up to the plate for the most part, with politically inflammatory lyrics that could produce real social change or at least raise awareness within the metal scene. Instead the new breed are content with singing about the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or beer bongs.(ala Atrophy, but at least the rest of their lyrics were polticaly/socially aware.)
What are your thoughts on this? Was the decline of thrash a conscious decision by the powers that be,the natural result of market forces or a changing of the guard/change of opinion within the larger social construct of the United States metal scene itself?

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The SHM
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:22 pm 
 

Because capitalism got to work, and once the bands starting seeing the greens coming in for songs that didn't deal with politics, they took heed.

Money is the conspiracy.
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TheNiceNightmare
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:41 pm 
 

How about kids grew up, quit being angsty, and started singing about other things they cared about rather than shout at at an establishment that probably didn't even care? Just a hunch.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:22 pm 
 

Interesting theory but not one I'd buy into much personally. There are plenty of bands that cut the political themes in the 90s but there are also a bunch like Testament, Exodus, and Anthrax that either kept writing about them or went back to them when the new millennium came around. I know I'm saying this as a guy in his early twenties, but it seems like there were more things to be more pissed off about in the 80s and 2000s than there were in the 90s. The 90s were also a time when these bands were getting screwed over personally so I think things like that were on their minds more than any true political investment. That said, the part about new thrash being less politically controversial is somewhat true but I think that's just our generation being more apathetic in general than anything else...

Also, weren't death and black metal more of a concern to political establishments than thrash ever was?
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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:24 pm 
 

It also didn't help that the early thrash movement was scary loud music that our tender little ears couldn't handle, and so, after the initial shock wore off, it fell by the wayside and only those who had only money in their hearts survived.

This is all based on the American metal scene, of course.
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IMO
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:57 pm 
 

I really doubt it... The government has way more important shit to focus on than thrash metal come on now. I'm glad about it anyway, politics is a joke and I don't want to hear about it while I'm listening to music.

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shouvince
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:03 pm 
 

I'm assuming that if this was truly the case, why didn't record labels inhibit the releases of rap artists who predominantly had politically-fueled lyrics...or even other genres like punk and its sub-genres for instance. I know this is the metal forum but if those instances of marginalization weren't that (and I use this as a relative term) pronounced in the macro world of the music industry, I assume the same would've been the case for thrash. I like how you tied your premise and the other statements together. But I, personally, don't think it went that way. To me, it could've just been evolution of sound and the quest for the 'heavy' in metal. The metal community was smaller back then and it probably swayed to the next big thing at that time, until an equilibrium was reached for fans of different genres.

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Techno Viper
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:20 pm 
 

shouvince wrote:
I'm assuming that if this was truly the case, why didn't record labels inhibit the releases of rap artists who predominantly had politically-fueled lyrics...or even other genres like punk and its sub-genres for instance. I know this is the metal forum but if those instances of marginalization weren't that (and I use this as a relative term) pronounced in the macro world of the music industry, I assume the same would've been the case for thrash. I like how you tied your premise and the other statements together. But I, personally, don't think it went that way. To me, it could've just been evolution of sound and the quest for the 'heavy' in metal. The metal community was smaller back then and it probably swayed to the next big thing at that time, until an equilibrium was reached for fans of different genres.

Not too long ago, I read an article about an of course "unamed" record executive that went to a meeting with people who represented the private prison industry in the early 90's.At the meeting, they were told to marginalize conscious rap (ie Public Enemy, Paris etc) and promote "gangsta" rap so the blacks would emulate such artists that would lead to larger incarcerations, thus lining their pockets with cash.

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Riffs
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:27 pm 
 

Techno Viper wrote:
What are your thoughts on this? Was the decline of thrash a conscious decision by the powers that be,the natural result of market forces or a changing of the guard/change of opinion within the larger social construct of the United States metal scene itself?


Little bit of column B and column C, I think. But there's no "establishment conspiracy" or anything ridiculous like that.

However, the situation is more simple than that. Heavy metal is a rebellious form of music that didn't follow a rigid template. All the bands had their own identity. We were very happy to let all these bands, whether they were accessible (Def Leppard, Motley Crue), theatrical (Alice Cooper), sinister (Sabbath), wild (Motorhead), operatic (Iron Maiden). Of course people were labeling them but it wasn't that bad at first. Things really got out of hands in the 80s and thrash was right in the middle of this phenomenon. Thrash is really just one era of one scene (some would even argue one band) that dripped over. It's idiosyncratic to a bunch of kids who had a large number of educated influences. It's not meant to be a rigid template! A band's style does not automatically make a viable genre template.

So, what happened to thrash? The same thing that happened to 1986. It came and it went away. But you can still listen to Master of Puppets, Peace Sells and Reign In Blood if you want. You can also hear its influence in bands good and bad, from Killswitch Engage to Immortal to Cavalera Conspiracy. Or the hundreds of shitty revival thrash bands. Some of the pionners are also still making stuff. The last Testament is pretty decent.

The irony is that pioneering band define their own style. They take what came before them and redefine it for their own era. In effect, they define genres because they don't give a shit about that kind of stuff. At the other end of the spectrum are shitty bands like Primal Fear, who took one album from a kickass band and defined their own band around it. The sound, structure, the voice, even the artwork. They still have yet to come close to Painkiller, but they're sure good for a laugh, though.
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elf48687789
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:34 pm 
 

Black and death are more popular now because they've evolved musically, in the case of black metal lyrically as well.

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The_Erlking
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:54 pm 
 

Some thrash evolved to death or black metal, some groove-oriented alternative "loud music" and some to progressive metal or technical post-metal or what ever you want to call stuff like Thought Industry. Also as the cold war came to it's end many thrash metallers (especially the techno-thrash side of things) losed their raison d'être so to say. No more WW3 hysteria, no more fear of nuclear holocaust.
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HenryKrinkle31
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:44 pm 
 

A lot of 80's thrash bands started writing poorer music in the 90's. It could really be that simple.
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ENKC
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:22 am 
 

I feel you're overthinking this. Any major musical movement tends to be a supernova; exploding in popularity before fizzling out and sorting the stayers from the wannabes. People move on, grow older, experiment with sounds and yes, sometimes just plain chase mainstream success for money.

And since when did thrash affect social change? I don't want to be preached to. I want to headbang. Warbringer et al are still cranking out those 80s style lyrics to solid effect, but no-one could accuse them of having deep meaning behind them.
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Tornado
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:16 am 
 

ENKC wrote:
I feel you're overthinking this. Any major musical movement tends to be a supernova; exploding in popularity before fizzling out and sorting the stayers from the wannabes.


Exactly! As soon as a metal sub-genre became popular, record labels would sign every fucking band out there playing that style of music, flooding the scene with quite often sub par bands, just to make a quick buck! Within a few short years the labels would drop those bands in favour of the next big thing. It happened when Thrash was taken over with Death and when Death was taken over with Black.

Personally speaking, I was always looking for more extreme bands when I first got into Metal in the mid 80's. It was a natural step for me to go from Maiden to Metallica to Slayer to Kreator to Death to Obituary to Morbid Angel to Entombed to Dark Throne to Mayhem to Burzum to Dissection...

I got tired of Thrash, as I owned the classics, and the stuff I was then buying was nothing new as I had already heard it (and heard it better) on those classics. The same thing happened with the Death and Black Metal scenes. I'd bought the classics when they came out, then the scenes were flooded with average bands, and I was beginning to buy shit I'd already heard. Admittedly, some of it was good shit, but I'd heard it all before, nonetheless.

Thrash Metal was the most extreme form of Metal in the mid 80's, but a newer and far heavier style destroyed it in the late 80's in the form of Death Metal! That's how I see it!

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inhumanist
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:51 am 
 

Didn't Slayer, Kreator, Sodom, Destruction, Sepultura and probably many more start as being purely about metal themes like satan, violence, warrior mentality etc. and only later, around 1990, became more "world conscious"? Hell, Sepultura re-recorded "Antichrist" as "Anticop"...
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Turner
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:00 am 
 

^--- is what I was going to add. that's one of the main gripes a lot of fans of the earlier thrash have.

Not that it's really actually related, but I also think there's a bit of truth to the "people grow up" line of thought - always seemed to me like thrash was the most "immature" metal genre. I grew out of it when I was 23-24, and now I can't look at these retro-thrash bands and not cringe... the hi-top sneakers, ed repka artwork and teenage mutant ninja turtle shit... christ, grow up. haha.

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The_Erlking
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:02 am 
 

inhumanist wrote:
Didn't Slayer, Kreator, Sodom, Destruction, Sepultura and probably many more start as being purely about metal themes like satan, violence, warrior mentality etc. and only later, around 1990, became more "world conscious"? Hell, Sepultura re-recorded "Antichrist" as "Anticop"...


Plenty of 80s thrash was socially conscious. Not as much as politically charged as hardcore punk or something but still. Some of it was brilliant and some really lame.
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:01 am 
 

So, along came Techno Viper with a crazy-ass conspiracy theory about thrash metal's rise and fall, based on lyrics and image rather than the music itself... Surprisingly, this lead to a great string of serious, interesting posts about the actual reasons for thrash metal's rise and fall, and beyond. Thank you all for the nice read!

The OP's theory is so out there that he himself hopefully don't take it half seriously. I mean, it's good for a laugh, but it holds no water whatsoever, if only for the fact that thrash metal never had any impact on the masses, let alone a political/societal one. A precious few ex-thrash bands (mostly Metallica, really) did have a great impact on mainstream audience, but only on a commercial and musical level, and only after they left behind, not just thrash's lyrical themes and image, but thrash itself. 'Kill 'em All' did sell in the millions eventually (about 10-15 years after its release), as did anything and everything with "Metallica" on it after the black album mainstream phenomenon; but it's not like 90% of those million copies were doing anything but gathering dust on someone's otherwise metal-free shelves, only to be picked up every blue moon just to pop up "Seek & Destroy", if that. There never was enough at stake with thrash for the kind of label executives who would come up with political agendas like the one Techno Viper put forth in his OP.

The actual thrash genre/movement at its most successful, including the Bay Area scene (since the OP focused on it), only ever had an impact on a very specific, very limited and decidedly non-mainstream market: die-hard metalheads. And remember, before 1991, the metal community in general, and even more so its most musically "extreme" part, was entirely marginalized and separated from the rest of the music world, especially on a societal level. You'd go to any random high school anywhere in the West, and you'd immediately and accurately spot the 5-10 metalheads out of the 1,000+ students. They were the ones who looked the part, all the ones who looked the part, and nothing but the ones who looked the part. Those were simpler times. You just didn't walk past people with Motörhead tee-shirts who actually listened to reggae, or metalheads who looked like they might be headed for a Britney Spears concert.

One thing I'd like to point out a bit more clearly and definitively than was the case so far in this thread, though. Thrash went extinct in 1992. I dare anyone to find a proper thrash album from 1993. It was booming up until and during 1991, and probably half the thrash records ever released came out around 89-91, but then two disasters brought it to extinction really fast: 1991 in mainstream music (to be more specific, the opening of a "metal" section in the mainstream music realm) and the booming of 2 newer metal scenes that took away thrash's "extreme" flag. All existing thrash bands either disbanded, attempted to cash in on Metallica's mainstream success, or both. New potential thrash bands either didn't get signed, or moved on to the next big extreme thing. Simple as that. That a retro/revival/whoreship wave put thrash back on the map a decade later, and that it expectedly led to a come-back/cash-grab wave from former thrash veterans is irrelevant. Thrash died in 1992, for commercial and musical reasons only.
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The_Erlking
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:15 am 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
I dare anyone to find a proper thrash album from 1993.


What do you mean by proper thrash album? No technical thrash?
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:30 am 
 

Well, that depends on what you mean by technical thrash. By proper thrash, I just mean an album that mostly and clearly qualifies as a thrash album, so no thrash/death, no blackened thrash, no "one of the influences surely is thrash, in there" stuff. Just thrash. Also and perhaps even more importantly, I mean stuff that wasn't polluted by blackalbumization and/or groovy-ism. So if you had diluted shit like say, Coroner's 'Grin' or Invocator's 'Weave the Apocalypse' in mind, think again.
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Expedience
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:58 am 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
The OP's theory is so out there that he himself hopefully don't take it half seriously. I mean, it's good for a laugh, but it holds no water whatsoever, if only for the fact that thrash metal never had any impact on the masses, let alone a political/societal one. A precious few ex-thrash bands (mostly Metallica, really) did have a great impact on mainstream audience, but only on a commercial and musical level, and only after they left behind, not just thrash's lyrical themes and image, but thrash itself. 'Kill 'em All' did sell in the millions eventually (about 10-15 years after its release), as did anything and everything with "Metallica" on it after the black album mainstream phenomenon; but it's not like 90% of those million copies were doing anything but gathering dust on someone's otherwise metal-free shelves, only to be picked up every blue moon just to pop up "Seek & Destroy", if that. There never was enough at stake with thrash for the kind of label executives who would come up with political agendas like the one Techno Viper put forth in his OP.


It's a pretty crazy theory and I struggle to think how it would even be possible, but I think the point is not that thrash was ever a threat to the establishment, but that perhaps it was thought to be. Politicians, especially conservatives, are usually ignorant when it comes to contemporary music, and they would have grouped thrash together with punk, grindcore and all other noisy and rebellious music. And considering the nature of politics it doesn't require a whole lot of imagination to picture an informal discussion, somewhere, centering around this confounded new anarchistic music of the devil and how it's turning young 'mericans and potential voters against us. Of course, it's somewhat of a leap from that to a conspiracy involving the record industry to bring thrash down.

But then, that reasoning also works against a conspiracy. If thrash was thought the enemy, why not death and black metal? I doubt anyone in a position of power would take the time to read lyrics and make a distinction between the political and non-political bands. It would all be noise to them.

The way thrash petered out is interesting to me, though. I can't think of another form of music with such a sudden demise.

LegendMaker wrote:
I dare anyone to find a proper thrash album from 1993.


If by proper you don't necessarily mean good, I'd cite Apocalypse Inside. But I'm one of the few that happens to like it.

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Turner
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:16 am 
 

oh come on - you're telling me that of all the thrash metal bands on m-a, there isn't going to be a SINGLE thrash record in 1993? the year directly after "thrash died"? I know of at least one off the top of my head - Allegiance's Destitution, and I'm sure there are THOUSANDS of others. But I have a sneaking suspicion your "blackalbumization and/or groovy-ism" is a failsafe. In any case, here's a random track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftV3483a ... ure=relmfu

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Marag
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:10 am 
 

Techno Viper wrote:
Unitntelligable growling and screaching vocals do not threaten the political landscape

Neither does a bunch of unwashed thrasers talking shit about the government.

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Napero
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:44 pm 
 

TheNiceNightmare wrote:
How about kids grew up, quit being angsty...

Show me one song with actually angsty lyrics from a classic thrash band, please... You must be confusing it with nu metal.
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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:46 pm 
 

Napero wrote:
TheNiceNightmare wrote:
How about kids grew up, quit being angsty...

Show me one song with actually angsty lyrics from a classic thrash band, please... You must be confusing it with nu metal.

I sure hope you mean classic albums by said bands, because...I could easily say "Dirty Window."
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Techno Viper
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:08 pm 
 

Marag wrote:
Techno Viper wrote:
Unitntelligable growling and screaching vocals do not threaten the political landscape

Neither does a bunch of unwashed thrasers talking shit about the government.

Interesting.But I guess it's my point. For some reason thrash lost it's momentum. Who's to say what would have been the outcome had bands like Nuclear Assault and Sacred Reich etc were allowed to flourish and grow? i can certainly understand the evolution of metal getting heavier musically, but it doesn't account for the lyrical content taking such a drastic turn. Also, think about this:How many death/black metal bands from their inception had political lyrics? Early Therion is the only band I can think of that even comes close to meeting that criteria.Also, I remember reading that the whole Norwegian Black metal scene was a reaction to "death metal went commercial". Would those bands have had the same reaction to thrash had it continued to have anti-government political lyrics? If I remember correctly the song "Cop Killer" by body count was considered way more inflammatory than Bob Dole, then a Kansas senator, blasting death-metal act Cannibal Corpse as immoral in 1995.

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Kigo7
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:47 pm 
 

Thrash lost its momentum because "industry trends" ended up shifting from metal to grunge and thrash after having broken through to the mainstream ended up suffering terribly as a result. Even if bands like Nuclear Assault and Sacred Reich were to flourish and develop, they'd still be at a bit of disadvantage. If more thrash bands had anti-political lyrics, the Norwegian bands would (probably) have reacted differently to them or really metal bands from outside of Norway.

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vengefulgoat
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:04 pm 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
I dare anyone to find a proper thrash album from 1993.

Poison - Into The Abyss. Anyway, not posting this to disprove your thesis, since I agree with it.

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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:19 pm 
 

Expedience wrote:
If by proper you don't necessarily mean good, I'd cite Apocalypse Inside. But I'm one of the few that happens to like it.

Coming back to the title track after reading your post, I was about to say "okay, you win, but barely"; having now revisited the whole album, I can't say that anymore. It's certainly not a great or creative album in my book (boy, did they suck Holt/Hunolt's and Hanneman/King's dicks for most of their riffs, on that one!), but that's entirely besides the point, no worries. No, the issue I'm having with this suggestion is that it's not really a thrash album, even though a few songs on it are undeniably proper thrash (the title track, "Incarcerated", "Freedom Slave"... that's it). Tracks like "Beneath What you see", "My Eyes see red" or "The Lost" are about as "thrash" as 'Chaos AD', 'Renewal' or 'Force of Habit' (to name a few other examples of thrash's Alzheimer period), and crawling groove/chug fests like "Salvation", "Flesh" or Ruins of the old" are thrashier than Manson, but less thrashy than 'A Vulgar Display of Power'. So yeah, lack of quality or not-ripping-off-every-damn-riff-off-of-Slayer's-or-Exodus's-famous-classics-ity aside... this is barely 1/3 of a thrash album, sorry.

Turner wrote:
oh come on - you're telling me that of all the thrash metal bands on m-a, there isn't going to be a SINGLE thrash record in 1993? the year directly after "thrash died"? I know of at least one off the top of my head - Allegiance's Destitution, and I'm sure there are THOUSANDS of others. But I have a sneaking suspicion your "blackalbumization and/or groovy-ism" is a failsafe.

Sorry, you lose. Just for shits and giggles, I'll mention that this came out in 1994, not 93 (although yes, my point does extend beyond 93, but hey! my challenge was for 1993 specifically), but it's not really the issue, here. First, let me address your suspicion that by proper thrash, I don't mean post-blackalbumization diluted, overproduced, gimmicky, MTV-friendly chug metal, but I do in fact mean proper thrash: actually, I do. I'll admit the "random" track you picked is practically proper thrash, yes, plus it has a nice "South of Heaven" quotation, near the end. See? thrash lol. But this album is not thrash overall, it's a bit more on the... wait for iiiiiit... groovy, blackalbumized side of things. There are thrash riffs and moments in most songs, but come ON, do you really think "thrash" when you hear this type of mid-paced, static, riff-less bullshit? I don't. Groove metal, who's with me?

THOUSANDS, eh? I take it the OP passed on the spliff your way? :D Dude, even 1990 didn't see thousands of thrash albums released, and you'll note that naming even one proper thrash album from 1993 seems to require a fucking hell of a lot of head-scratching and hair-splitting, and not just from yours truly. So thousands... aha.

vengefulgoat wrote:
Poison - Into The Abyss. Anyway, not posting this to disprove your thesis, since I agree with it.

And... we're back! Well, I'm pleased to note that you're taking me seriously, now (again? or for the first time?). Having said that, your example may be the least valid of the three. A 1987 demo re-released in 1993 is not quite the same thing at all as a 1993 album. Also more thrash/death(/black) than plain thrash, but that's very secondary in that case. Anyways, you know that, so I guess it's just your way of further proving the point.

Anyone else? For reference, the challenge was to find something that can reasonably be considered proper thrash(*), released for the first time in 1993, and not written and recorded long prior to that.

(*) Examples of proper thrash: this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this...
Not proper thrash: that, that, that, that, that, that...

Edit: one link was wrong...
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Last edited by LegendMaker on Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Von Jugel
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:27 pm 
 

LegendMaker wrote:

Anyone else? For reference, the challenge was to find something that can reasonably be considered proper thrash(*), released for the first time in 1993, and not written and recorded long prior to that.


Sacred Reich - Independent

?

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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:16 pm 
 

Von Jugel wrote:
Sacred Reich - Independent?

Please tell me you just made a search and this came up, but you never actually listened to it. Anyways, you tell me. Sounds like thrash to you? :roll:
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:50 pm 
 

A few questions about this conspiracy:

Why would that the "powers that be" get rid of music that, at times was politically conscious and critical, but replace it with music that is more overwhelmingly against the religion(s) of this establishment?

How does Rage Against The Machine, one of the more successful bands of the late 90s, propelled by a heavy presence on major labels, radio, and television, work into this theory?

Maybe thrash metal was purely powered by hatred of Ronald Reagan. It took nearly two terms of him in office to brew up classics like "Master Control" and "Digital Dictator" in 1990.

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ENKC
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:46 pm 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
Well, that depends on what you mean by technical thrash. By proper thrash, I just mean an album that mostly and clearly qualifies as a thrash album, so no thrash/death, no blackened thrash, no "one of the influences surely is thrash, in there" stuff. Just thrash. Also and perhaps even more importantly, I mean stuff that wasn't polluted by blackalbumization and/or groovy-ism. So if you had diluted shit like say, Coroner's 'Grin' or Invocator's 'Weave the Apocalypse' in mind, think again.

Seriously, dude? Nothing over the last two decades of thrash is pure enough for you? When Death Comes, Ironbound, The Evolution of Chaos, Agony of Death, Worlds Torn Asunder - albums like these just don't cut if for you?
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:58 pm 
 

@ENKC: No, no, no, dude, I'm not saying that at all! I do acknowledge the retro-thrash wave, as well as the wave of come-backs of dozens upon dozens of classic thrash bands of the past decade or so. There is plenty of thrash all over the place again nowadays, for sure (although much of it is dull, contemplative worship that bores me to tears); I wasn't denying that. My point is that thrash was clinically dead at some point, and only years after its demise was it suddenly and, in my eyes, rather forcibly resurrected. The paragraph you quoted specifically referred to those years during which thrash had totally ceased to exist, with a focus on Year One of these dark ages: 1993.
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The_Erlking
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:46 am 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
Well, that depends on what you mean by technical thrash. By proper thrash, I just mean an album that mostly and clearly qualifies as a thrash album, so no thrash/death, no blackened thrash, no "one of the influences surely is thrash, in there" stuff. Just thrash. Also and perhaps even more importantly, I mean stuff that wasn't polluted by blackalbumization and/or groovy-ism. So if you had diluted shit like say, Coroner's 'Grin' or Invocator's 'Weave the Apocalypse' in mind, think again.


I was actually thinking Believer's Dimensions. Their best album to date imo.
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Von Jugel
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:46 am 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
Von Jugel wrote:
Sacred Reich - Independent?

Please tell me you just made a search and this came up, but you never actually listened to it. Anyways, you tell me. Sounds like thrash to you? :roll:


Fine, that album totally sucks ass.

But how about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQMo-c4PfeQ

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The_Erlking
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:00 am 
 

Von Jugel wrote:


Are you joking?
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TheNiceNightmare
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:24 am 
 

Napero wrote:
TheNiceNightmare wrote:
How about kids grew up, quit being angsty...

Show me one song with actually angsty lyrics from a classic thrash band, please... You must be confusing it with nu metal.


Now, I never specifically said "angsty lyrics", the people in these bands lashed out at the world because of their feelings, some picked politics as the subject to express themselves with, then quit doing so, perhaps because of emotional maturity. They could be feeling the way they did, without writing "I hate everyone" Korn type lyrics and instead lashing out at the establishment, doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me.
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Techno Viper
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:55 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:14 am 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
A few questions about this conspiracy:

Why would that the "powers that be" get rid of music that, at times was politically conscious and critical, but replace it with music that is more overwhelmingly against the religion(s) of this establishment?

How does Rage Against The Machine, one of the more successful bands of the late 90s, propelled by a heavy presence on major labels, radio, and television, work into this theory?

Maybe thrash metal was purely powered by hatred of Ronald Reagan. It took nearly two terms of him in office to brew up classics like "Master Control" and "Digital Dictator" in 1990.

The black metal bands were on the right track as far as recognizing religion as a form of mind control. The establishment would have no problem with black metal as far as a "movement" because most people while relatively immoral would never subscribe to blatant satanism.

Not to get all "tin hat nutty", but to my understanding, any band and/or movement (like the 99% ) is what's called "controlled oposition". What better way to disfuse opposition than to control it yourself and stear it in a direction where it no longer threatens you?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:52 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Maybe thrash metal was purely powered by hatred of Ronald Reagan. It took nearly two terms of him in office to brew up classics like "Master Control" and "Digital Dictator" in 1990.


1. Neither of those albums were released in 1990.
2. Neither of those albums are thrash (USPM fits the bill).
3. Have you taken your brain medicine today, Zodi? :P
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