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Expedience
Veteran

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:22 am
Posts: 3691
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:54 am 
 

Fates Warning probably should be mentioned. First the fairly significant improvement from Night on Bröcken and then with the departure of John Arch which led to a steep decline. And seeing as Awaken the Guardian is one of the best metal albums ever the follow-up, while not terrible, is a crushing disappointment.

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the american god
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:28 am
Posts: 71
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:59 am 
 

Giant Squid

Metridium Field -> The Ichthyologist

When Aaron Gregory's wife left.. man. So much of the band was her atmospheric textures. Aaron tried to do it himself but the result was.. fucking boring. :(
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EmeraldEdge9832
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:01 pm
Posts: 174
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:55 pm 
 

Smalley wrote:
From ...And Justice To All to TBA: they go from intricate, pissed-off, political, powerful thrash, to very unchallenging, poppy, commercialized radio metal, complete with a pussy power ballad barely better than the likes of something like "Every Rose Has Its Thorn".

That's pretty harsh. Though I agree AJFA was a better album, I wouldn't go as far to say that TBA sounded poppy or pussy.

What exactly is wrong with creating music with a radio format? I think some people only bash it as being commercial well after it was written and successful. What I'm saying is that just being commercial alone doesn't mean that it's not good music.

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Oxenkiller
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:47 pm 
 

there was a huge drop in quality between all 3 of Metallica's post Cliff Burton albums. "And Justice For All" was good, but nowhere near what the previous two had been: overall sound was tinny and lacking the heavy crunch of the past two, the bass was too low in the mix, etc. And the songs were, for the most part, too long and convoluted. Good album, but still a huge dropoff after "Puppets." Then we get to the self titled album- they had gotten rid of the over-complicated song structures, but the sound was watered down, lacking in both the agression of the early albums and the distinctive albeit thin and tinny sound of "Justice." It was too overproduced, and the songs were too close to glam/pop metal e.g. "Nothing else matters" Even the "Heavy" songs just weren't as distinctive or powerful as the ones on the first three records.
After that album was "Load-" even more commercial and watered down, but the songwriting was far more tepid.

But if you're talking about Metallica, then the simple truth is, the biggest quality difference between consecutive albums would be between "St. Anger" and "Death Magnetic."

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Smalley
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
Posts: 698
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:09 pm 
 

EmeraldEdge9832 wrote:
That's pretty harsh. Though I agree AJFA was a better album, I wouldn't go as far to say that TBA sounded poppy or pussy.

What exactly is wrong with creating music with a radio format? I think some people only bash it as being commercial well after it was written and successful. What I'm saying is that just being commercial alone doesn't mean that it's not good music.

Not "poppy" as in, it reminds me of Rihanna or whoever, just very poppy in comparison to their previous 3 albums... which isn't a good thing, still. "Nothing Else Matters" is almost the textbook definition of a pussy power ballad, barely beaten out by shit like "Every Rose Has Its Thorn", or "Is This Love".

Anyway, when it comes to the question of radio-friendly metal, there's nothing inherently wrong with it; I mean, I like British Steel a lot, and that's pretty radio-friendly. Difference is, it sounds like an effortless, natural, genuine radio-friendly, as if it's the record Priest really wanted to make... while TBA feels way too much like Metallica trying to force themselves too hard to turn radio-friendly. Not surprising, since they sounded so much more natural un-radio-friendly. Not to use that old argument that Bob Rock pushed them too hard to sound commercial, I have no reason to believe the music of TBA wasn't what they genuinely wanted (since I know they were tired of playing the long, complicated songs of Justice live, and wanted something easier to replicate), but something got lost in the translation inbetween intent and final product, so TBA's approach just doesn't sound... right to my ears.

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Kveldulfr
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 2327
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:01 pm 
 

Strange, I've always considered AFJA way better than MoP, at least it feels more of a thrash album and not a terribly disjointed work 'disguised' as a thrash classic with barely half of songs reminiscent of the style. I guess it's the death of Burton which made the difference. In fact, I consider MoP the first misstep Metallica did, with like 3 good songs and filled with garbage.

The S/T it's not a bad album per se, as a standalone album it's good, but hell, it's too obvious that the album was directed by someone else.
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Hawksword192
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:16 pm
Posts: 187
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:57 pm 
 

Tron_79 wrote:
Sigh - Imaginary Sonicscape (great)
Sigh - Gallows Gallery (bad)

Imaginary Sonicscape is one of the best black/avante-garde albums i've heard that has the quality of experimenting but still has some catchiness to it. the influences of black metal, jaxxy, psychedelic rock all come together so well on that album. With Gallows Gallery, gone are the growls and although some psychedelic qualities remain, its just a really boring album to me and one I just haven't got into


I respect your right to an opinion even though I think you couldn't be more wrong about the merits of Gallows Gallery.

Death Angel definitely fits this category. The Ultra-Violence was such an amazingly awesome and vicious piece of thrash metal while the sequel Frolic Through the Park was nothing more than a meandering mess. I have no idea what happened in between those two albums but I feel they recovered exceptionally well in the form of Act III which combines thrash and melody sans the viciousness but still in an extremely satisfactory combination.

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Ancelot
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:07 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:03 pm 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
Iron Maiden - Seven Son... = this isn't my all-time favorite Maiden, but it caps off the '80s run pretty well. Very enjoyable songs across the album that makes it solid and complete. I own it and I love it for those reasons, and of all the '80s full-lengths this was the last one for me to get into.
Iron Maiden - NPFTD = fuck this. Half an album that's worth anything, and even then it's hard to drudge up anything of value that you couldn't find on the '80s material. Listening to this was like listening to burnouts scramble for something big and failing miserably.


I was going to say this. Seventh Son is one of my favorita Maiden albums, while No Prayer is nos so much bad as it is a boring album.

Also, there's a big difference from Skunkworks to Accident of Birth. The first is so much differente from what anyone would expect from Dickinson and not just that, the songs doesn't work. On the other hand Accident of Birth, not only marks the return of the Dickison-Smith collaboration, that ultimately took them back to Maiden, is just a amazing metal album.

Ozzy's Diary of a Madman to Bark at the Moon. Diary is, in my opinion, the best Ozzy album. Randy was at his best. The problem with BATM is that it didin't stuck to people's mind. I mean, who can remember any song from that album, besides the title track. Not even Ozzy does.

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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:24 pm 
 

the american god wrote:
Giant Squid

Metridium Field -> The Ichthyologist

When Aaron Gregory's wife left.. man. So much of the band was her atmospheric textures. Aaron tried to do it himself but the result was.. fucking boring. :(


I liked The Ichthyologist quite a lot, Mormon Island or whatever it was it totally unbearable, but I found the rest pretty fun. Definitely cut back on the lengthy atmospheric sections, but I thought it rocked out enough and I liked all the sludging parts. Cenobites on the other hand zzzzzzzzzzzz.
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serch777
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:38 pm
Posts: 25
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:49 pm 
 

Funeral Mist:
Salvation - One of the best orthodox black metal releases ever. Great riffs, drumming and a general atmosphere I've never felt in any other album, plus, Mortuus never sounded as good again.

Maranatha - Uninspired, horrible song structures, Necomorbus's drumming is very missed here. Mortuus seems to be totally focused on Marduk....

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Holy Diver
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:33 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:14 pm 
 

I'll use Judas Priest for both.

Improvement: Rocka Rolla followed by Sad Wings of Destiny

Worsening: Painkiller followed by Jugulator
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Ancient_Sorrow
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:10 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:23 pm 
 

Quote:
Salvation - One of the best orthodox black metal releases ever. Great riffs, drumming and a general atmosphere I've never felt in any other album, plus, Mortuus never sounded as good again.

Maranatha - Uninspired, horrible song structures, Necomorbus's drumming is very missed here. Mortuus seems to be totally focused on Marduk....


I can understand why people hate Maranatha, but, speaking as someone who is listening to it right now, I love it. It's definitely a huge change in style though, I tend to listen to Salvation when I'm in the mood for no-nonsense black-metal which is a bit more twisted than the norm, and Maranatha when I want something truly chimeric and unnerving.
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Tron_79
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 298
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:20 pm 
 

Hawksword192 wrote:
Tron_79 wrote:
Sigh - Imaginary Sonicscape (great)
Sigh - Gallows Gallery (bad)

Imaginary Sonicscape is one of the best black/avante-garde albums i've heard that has the quality of experimenting but still has some catchiness to it. the influences of black metal, jaxxy, psychedelic rock all come together so well on that album. With Gallows Gallery, gone are the growls and although some psychedelic qualities remain, its just a really boring album to me and one I just haven't got into


I respect your right to an opinion even though I think you couldn't be more wrong about the merits of Gallows Gallery.

Death Angel definitely fits this category. The Ultra-Violence was such an amazingly awesome and vicious piece of thrash metal while the sequel Frolic Through the Park was nothing more than a meandering mess. I have no idea what happened in between those two albums but I feel they recovered exceptionally well in the form of Act III which combines thrash and melody sans the viciousness but still in an extremely satisfactory combination.


Of course everyone has different opinions, but I had listened to Sigh for some time before this release....the lack of any harsh vocals was a dissapointment or any aggressive riffs at all. Sure they are still experimenting on GG, but they sound closer to 70s prog rock than anything else. Perhaps if they released it under another name, I would have appreciated it more
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4535
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:52 pm 
 

As far as Fates Warning go, I just don't like how they went from varied, hard hitting progressive metal on Perfect Symmetry to watered down radio friendly poop on Parallels. The latter isn't terrible and I wouldn't mind hearing it as background music, but sure doesn't have anything on the former. (Or any 80's Fates Warning album for that matter.)

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DoomMetalAlchemist
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 515
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:35 pm 
 

Holy Diver wrote:
I'll use Judas Priest for both.

Improvement: Rocka Rolla followed by Sad Wings of Destiny

Worsening: Painkiller followed by Jugulator


I actually really like Rocka Rolla. It's in my top three Priest albums (along with Sad Wings and Sin After Sin).

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iAm
Wastelander

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Posts: 5630
Location: West of the Duwamish due South of the Sound
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:41 pm 
 

Metallica with Ride the Lightning and then Master of Puppets; which I consider the first in their downward spiral. It was strenuously long compared to their first two and was loaded with filler. Don't get me wrong though. It's a decent album but so vastly different it hardly sounds like the same band.
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Violent_Possessor
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:53 pm
Posts: 238
Location: New York
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:24 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
BastardHead wrote:
The only other example I can think of would be Sepultura, as Arise is a monolith in early 90s thrash, and Chaos AD is pretty much the death knell of it. I can think of plenty of great albums followed up by bad ones and vice versa, but not many classics followed up by embarrassments.

That's nothing compared to Hear Nothing, See Nothing, Say Nothing being followed up by Grave New World. :D


Grave New World is probably the worst follow up and one of the worst albums ever.

Dark Angel's We Have Arrived wasn't bad but I feel like it was very bland sounding production and then they released Darkness Descends which is one of the quintessential thrash albums.
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Iron Priest
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 10:18 am
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:32 am 
 

Judas Priest:
Defenders of the Faith to Turbo

Iron Maiden:
IMO Fear of the Dark to The X Factor is the biggest dip, though Fear of the Dark is far from their best overall.

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t1337Dude
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 5:20 am
Posts: 675
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:29 am 
 

Immortal's Blizzard Beasts and At The Heart of Winter. Blizzard Beasts is a furious album, pushing Immortal's speed, heaviness, and atmosphere to their extremes. It's tight, cohesive, and comes across to me as technically impressive for black metal. I'm not surprised that Demonaz acquired tendinitis shortly after recording this album. And then comes ATHoW... The change in guitar playing is night and day to me and represents a point where Immortal's guitar-work took a different direction. It doesn't take long to realize that Abbath's guitar playing not nearly as impressive, and the faster dissonant whirlwind-riffs that were present in previous albums are gone, and have been replaced with mostly mid-paced melodic thrash riffs with some dissonant chords thrown in.

Perhaps At The Heart of Winter isn't the worst album, because it isn't. It's just Blizzard Beasts is a lot more tight and interesting, and hinted at a very promising new sound for Immortal. ATToW is awfully meandering and weak-sounding in comparison.

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the american god
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:28 am
Posts: 71
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:12 am 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
I liked The Ichthyologist quite a lot, Mormon Island or whatever it was it totally unbearable, but I found the rest pretty fun. Definitely cut back on the lengthy atmospheric sections, but I thought it rocked out enough and I liked all the sludging parts. Cenobites on the other hand zzzzzzzzzzzz.


Don't get me wrong, I can listen to the thing. And do, occasionally. But it drags so hard. So, so hard. It's not even in the same solar system as Metridium Field for me.

I tried $100: The Album ("C notes", geddit?), gave up, and immediately forgot everything I'd heard.

It really sucks when a band you loved so dearly goes so bad. The Squid was my first favorite metal band. :(
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japc
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:35 pm
Posts: 501
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:21 am 
 

t1337Dude wrote:
Immortal's Blizzard Beasts and At The Heart of Winter. Blizzard Beasts is a furious album, pushing Immortal's speed, heaviness, and atmosphere to their extremes.

Blizzard Beasts is criminally underrated.
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 5274
Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:37 am 
 

The album that would have an 89% average on MA if not for one negative review is criminally underrated? Seems pretty well respected to me. In fact, it was the first Immortal album I'd heard because at the time it had the highest average here.
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droneriot
RETIRED

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:42 am 
 

Well, there are many people who see Blizzard Beasts as one of their weakest and At the Heart of Winter as a return to form. The post by t1337Dude is the first time I see it the other way around.
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japc
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:35 pm
Posts: 501
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:19 pm 
 

BastardHead wrote:
The album that would have an 89% average on MA if not for one negative review is criminally underrated? Seems pretty well respected to me. In fact, it was the first Immortal album I'd heard because at the time it had the highest average here.

Not on MA, on the "internets" :)
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

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Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:21 pm 
 

As a guy who tends to stay more near death, thrash, power, and trad metal, I genuinely thought that both Blizzard Beasts and At the Heart of Winter were considered among their best. This is why I don't often talk about black metal :lol:
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Ancient_Mariner
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:20 pm
Posts: 322
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:43 pm 
 

Slayer

Divine Intervention followed by Diabolus In Musica. DI was the last thrash album Slayer did before adding in the nu-metal on DiM. I head Stain of Mind and thought it Mansonish vocals over Korn or something. Really disappointing. Divine wasn't great but it was pretty good and the followed up with their worst album.

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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 1603
Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:24 pm 
 

In regards to Immortal, it's a significant style change, regardless of quality (both very solid albums), from the intricate, moody, violent yet melodic black metal of 'Blizzard Beasts' to the more upbeat traditional heavy metal with black metal vocals and thrash influences of 'At the Heart of Winter'.
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SladeCraven
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 1:51 pm
Posts: 392
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:13 pm 
 

Nile from "Those Whom The Gods Detest" to "At the Gate of Sethu"

I am still shocked by how incredibly terrible the newer album sounds. I'm not a Nile fiend, but I do like the band, and I thought the album to sound, feel, and just be overall a severe downgrade from their last three. VOMIT.
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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:43 am 
 

I'd go with Ithycock after the amazing Annihilation of the Wicked myself. Best album they've done followed by the worst.
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SladeCraven
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 1:51 pm
Posts: 392
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:32 am 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
I'd go with Ithycock after the amazing Annihilation of the Wicked myself. Best album they've done followed by the worst.



I was not a big fan of that album myself, I just find their last one to fester in some serious poop.
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mornox
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:09 pm
Posts: 1148
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:04 pm 
 

slavonic777 wrote:
The first thing which comes to my mind is band Dark Tribe. In Jeraspunta, what a monstrous masterpiece of bestial ritualistic black metal, highly original, each track stellar... than 6 years of waiting, high expectances, and finally an album which sounds almost like "old recycled junk which didnt make it to the original In Jeraspunta".


This, absolutely. Going from something which bodily deposits Cthulhu in your living room to a bunch of soulless dsbm reject riffs is just fucking disgusting.
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cvac
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:36 pm
Posts: 61
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:22 pm 
 

japc wrote:
t1337Dude wrote:
Immortal's Blizzard Beasts and At The Heart of Winter. Blizzard Beasts is a furious album, pushing Immortal's speed, heaviness, and atmosphere to their extremes.

Blizzard Beasts is criminally underrated.


Probably my second favorite after Pure Holocaust for the first 4 LPs. Haven't delved into the later stuff yet so I can't comment on it. What I like about BB is the thick guitar sound...quite a contrast to a lot of BM-ish albums and very unique sounding to my ears. Great stuff.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:29 pm 
 

I'm tempted to say Behexen and their semi-stinker My Soul For His Glory. While it wasn't a terrible album, it's unmemorable and unimaginative, and most of all it lacks the incredible hatred, darkness and aggression that made the preceding full-length so great. At this point it looks like they never recovered from the degradation (Nightside Emanations is rather dull).
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Marag
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:55 pm
Posts: 2660
Location: down there where chaos prevails
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:42 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
I'm tempted to say Behexen and their semi-stinker My Soul For His Glory. While it wasn't a terrible album, it's unmemorable and unimaginative, and most of all it lacks the incredible hatred, darkness and aggression that made the preceding full-length so great. At this point it looks like they never recovered from the degradation (Nightside Emanations is rather dull).

Their split with Satanic Warmaster is pretty good though, short as it is.

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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
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Location: Fortress Northallerton, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:47 pm 
 

With regards to Immortal: Blizzard Beasts and At the Heart of Winter are both cool albums. But Damned in Black is where they started getting lazy, so the drop off in quality between AtHoW and DiB is certainly noticeable. I guess they put more effort in on Sons of Northern Darkness... but who cares?
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Woolie_Wool
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
Posts: 1636
Location: Far beyond the prophecy of tyrant guardians
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:18 pm 
 

DoomMetalAlchemist wrote:
Holy Diver wrote:
I'll use Judas Priest for both.

Improvement: Rocka Rolla followed by Sad Wings of Destiny

Worsening: Painkiller followed by Jugulator


I actually really like Rocka Rolla. It's in my top three Priest albums (along with Sad Wings and Sin After Sin).


The two are really one album split in half. Most of the Sad Wings material was written for Rocka Rolla but was rejected by the label and Priest hastily came up with some filler. The non-filler songs on that album, like "Run of the Mill", are very good.
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Erisgaroth
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:18 am
Posts: 1542
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:50 am 
 

Twisted Sister from ''Under The Blade'' (-) to ''You Can't Stop Rock & Roll'' (+)

The first album to me is very boring, and this because of the quality of the sound. Is very raw and dirty, compared to the next album or with the classic ''Stay Hungry''. All the songs sounds the same and the music is not really bad, is very Hard Rock-ish but the quality is really a garbage, totally unmemorable. I can't remember even a riif of that album. It was completely worthless, and this coming from a big fan of everything that gets labeled as Glam Rock/Metal, everything.

''You Can't Stop Rock & Roll'' for the other way, is fantastic, the beginning of the classic sound of all the time, a very good work.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6411
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:13 am 
 

Marag wrote:
Ilwhyan wrote:
I'm tempted to say Behexen and their semi-stinker My Soul For His Glory. While it wasn't a terrible album, it's unmemorable and unimaginative, and most of all it lacks the incredible hatred, darkness and aggression that made the preceding full-length so great. At this point it looks like they never recovered from the degradation (Nightside Emanations is rather dull).

Their split with Satanic Warmaster is pretty good though, short as it is.

It's on the same level as My Soul, essentially. There seemed to be some attempt to bring back the melodic elements from Rituale/Horna split, but the magic is missing. The SW song is very cool though.
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Illusions Dead - death/black metal

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aaronmb666
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:37 am
Posts: 1806
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:39 am 
 

Deicide Stench of Redemption to Till Death Do Us Part. IMO, I think they went from their best album to worst. Everything about Till Death feels boring/filler. In Glens recent interviews, it's obviously just a filler album, like In Torment In Hell.

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